New Here....Hoping I'm not just an idiot (though I probably am)

[Gipionocheiyort]

Hi,

I just registered though I've been lurking around here for months now....I just didn't have anything constructive to add since I'm still learning.  I had to join now though because I've hit an issue that I just can't figure out.  I've been searching around to see if this issue has already been solved...but I can't seem to find it if it has.

Anyway I guess I should start by listing what I've done so far.  I have an old Neo Geo MVS cab that I have set up with a J-Pac and a computer that I built.  I'm using a Radeon video card and Soft15khz to get the frequency right...and for the most part everything is working perfectly (at least on games...looks like crap on the Mame menus and such but I could care less).

The issue that I'm having is on the bootup...and it almost seems like the cabinet is just toying with me.  Basically the steps that I have to take to boot alot of the time (but not every time...sometimes it boots up perfectly right away) are:

1. Turn on the PC and the Monitor (I don't have it wired to a single switch yet).
2. See the PC go through the dual screen boot mode from the Jpac (this step obviously only happens if I have both jumpers set...but leaving just the 15khz jumper on doesn't remove the issues in later steps)
3. Hear Windows boot up as the monitor goes black.
4. Get annoyed that something is wrong and lug out my test CRT monitor.
5. Hook test CRT up to video card....get no signal.
6. Get annoyed....Reboot computer...watch boot sequence on test monitor...see windows boot up
7. Get "Out of Frequency" error from test monitor
8. Hook PC back to Jpac....good to go.

Obviously this boot sequence is a bit more complex than it should be but I can't for the life of me figure out whats going on.  The passthrough light on the J-Pac isn't lit when I'm having issues so I know that it's got to be something with the frequency...but I can't figure out why being connected to the Arcade Monitor via J-pac would keep Soft15khz from working properly (I never disconnect the USB link between the J-Pac and PC so I don't think it's a hardware conflict or anything).  To make matters more confusing I'm able to reboot the PC when it's already running and it reboots into 15khz just fine (though I'm not sure if this is the case every time or if I just got lucky when I tried rebooting it after a windows update the one time).

Has anyone seen anything like this before and can point me in the right direction?  My theory is that the monkeys who run the PC I built enjoy watching me lug a CRT monitor around....but that's probably not the full story here.

Thanks in advance and sorry if I'm asking a question that has been answered before...when I was searching I found similar issues but nothing that really seemed to be the same thing that I'm experiencing here.

Phil

[bkenobi]

So is your video card/motherboard checking for a monitor on boot?  It sounds like it is and it's then complaining that it can't find what it wants.  It then waits for you to acknowledge the problem which you can't because you can't see anything.  When you plug in the correct monitor, you are now using the wrong resolution, so it freaks out again.

There are 3 possible fixes if this is what's happening.
1) Get a video card/mobo that don't require you to have a monitor plugged in.
2) Adjust the BIOS settings and/or video card settings so that it doesn't check for a monitor.
3) Build a VGA dongle that will fake the system into thinking a monitor is plugged in.

I can't remember what that dongle is called nor can I think of any search terms to use to find it.  These used to be commonly required from what I remember reading, but I don't think they are anymore now that file servers and HTPC's are so much more common.

[Gipionocheiyort]

Nope that's not it.  I hear the entire Windows boot process including the chime that normally plays when the desktop loads...it's definitely getting past POST.

It's also worth nothing that Windows isn't showing any prompts or errors on the screen when I finally get it to display on the arcade monitor...and there's no interaction required other than hitting the power switch.

[bkenobi]

Ok, well that's all I got.  I did a quick google search and found that the connector is called a "VGA Dummy" or "VGA Dummy Plug".  You may not need it, but I'm posting the link in case someone else reads the thread later on.

http://soeren-nielsen.dk/mod/VGAdummy/index_en.php

[Gipionocheiyort]

Oh also the fact that I get through the boot process with the dual screen mode of the J-Pac when I have the jumper set makes me think it's something else too.  It's weird but I get the dual screen all the way through the boot until Windows loads when Soft15khz would normally take over and switch to 15khz...at this point the arcade monitor just goes black.

[Gipionocheiyort]

Ok I accidently lied yesterday and I realized it when I did some more testing last night.

When I have the J-Pac hooked up I'm not getting the Windows chime on boot up...though I can see in Split Screen mode that it's getting past POST and loading Windows...it's just like when Soft15khz kicks in while attached to the J-Pac it keeps windows from booting.

Oddly enough though I seem to get the same results when I start the computer without a monitor at all or when I plug a cable in with nothing on the other side...so it's like my Video card is detecting that there isn't a monitor there and somehow keeping windows from loading.

I'm not sure why the computer doesn't seem to think that the J-pac behaves the same as a monitor...but I'm gonna play around with the BIOS and video card settings tonight to see if I can't disable whatever it's trying to do.

[mvsfan]

Ok I accidently lied yesterday and I realized it when I did some more testing last night.

When I have the J-Pac hooked up I'm not getting the Windows chime on boot up...though I can see in Split Screen mode that it's getting past POST and loading Windows...it's just like when Soft15khz kicks in while attached to the J-Pac it keeps windows from booting.

Oddly enough though I seem to get the same results when I start the computer without a monitor at all or when I plug a cable in with nothing on the other side...so it's like my Video card is detecting that there isn't a monitor there and somehow keeping windows from loading.

I'm not sure why the computer doesn't seem to think that the J-pac behaves the same as a monitor...but I'm gonna play around with the BIOS and video card settings tonight to see if I can't disable whatever it's trying to do.

As a long shot, Check your monitor cable and see if any pins are broken. It almost sounds like your test monitor may have a broken pin.

You said it was a crt so its probably got some age on it.

I have the same problem, but with a different setup. I have a hybrid monitor that can display 640x480 and lower only. Thankfully, (with a test monitor,) i was able to force windows to 640x480 with the nvidia drivers. But my bios and my boot screens wont go any lower than 800x600. Never have been able to fix that problem.

also, before that, my test monitor also would not work. Turns out it had a broken pin.

[Gipionocheiyort]

Thanks for the help guys....but the answer turned out to be something that you couldn't possible have guessed since I didn't give you the information that ended up being key.  Hopefully my idiocy can help someone else searching in the future.

What I didn't mention because it didn't seem important is that the Radeon card that I have in there is one of the ones with 3 outputs.  It's got the standard VGA, a DVI, and an HDMI.  On the test PC both DVI and VGA were working fine so I figured I would just stick with VGA and save myself having to have the extra adapter between the J-Pac and the PC....and never really thought of it again.

Tonight after a few hours of banging my head against the wall it occured to me to try the DVI port when the monitor goes blank....and sure enough that was the key.  Basically it looks like output is coming through both ports (maybe all 3?  didn't have anything with HDMI to test it) on boot until Windows kicks in.  Once Windows kicks in the card does some sort of auto-detect thing (that I couldn't figure out how to turn off in the ATI software) on the VGA port, and when it doesn't find a monitor attached to it (J-Pac doesn't register with it for some reason) it passes control over to the DVI.

So for anyone else who has this issue...basically the key is to use a DVI to VGA adapter.  I tried removing all of the ATI software except for the bare bones driver but the card still hit the auto-detect anyway....so if there's a better way to do it that doesn't require the extra adapter I don't know what it is at this point.

At any rate it's working perfectly now so I'm a very happy nerd for the time being.  Thanks again for the help.

[bkenobi]

So I was sorta right.   

[Gipionocheiyort]

Yup Kinda/sorta.  Your reply is the one that got me thinking along those lines anyway.

Thanks!