Noob asking for guidance/opinions on a few fronts

[NoSkill]

After lurking for a bit (and avidly reading the wiki and main page), I've finally decided to register and ask my questions here. First things first, I'm a recent arcade enthusiast: growing up, I was mainly a PC gamer (Civ, notably), but around 2005 or so, I found out about MAME and about all the great games I've been missing out for all those years. Better late than ever, as they say.

I thus started playing arcade games with the keyboard. That kickly started to get old so I later bought a USB gamepad. That was almost worse. I then bought a standalone arcade controller, but let's face it: it still feels like you're playing Frogger on your laptop with a big box full of buttons on your lap and even a guy like me who probably probably didn't spend much more than 50$ in total in his life in a real arcade, it's a bit of a let down. I thus decided to build myself a REAL arcade cabinet. Unfortunately, I frequently need to move due to my job/school situation (going back to school) and I just do not have the real estate to a have an upright cabinet. Plus, girlfriend and I are renting our house in the summer to rack up some money (we generally travel or go camping), so I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving something costly and fragile like an arcade cabinet in the basement of the house for strangers/strangers' kids to play with. It's just asking for trouble (believe me, I have stories).

With that in mind, I figured I would build the next best thing: a bartop cabinet. This has the added benefits of being portable (somewhat) and for a guy who is low both on money and woodworking skills, a smaller endeavour might just be the difference between a completed project and somethign that is later sold for parts. Plus, I could just hide/stash it somewhere when I'm gone and also bring it to poker games/parties.

With that in mind, I have a few designs in my head, but with them comes a truckload of questions.

First problem, to go CRT or not ?

I have a small CRT right now wich is decent, but that thing is heavy and bulky (but free). LCD has the advantage of being a lot smaller (thus enabling a bigger displaying area), but it is more costly. Plus, I need this thing to be able to handle horizontal AND vertical and a pretty good number of resolutions and not look like complete doodoo (I know about scanlines, but they still leave me meh on an LCD). Viewing angles also bothers me somewhat, wich leads us to the next problem (2 players or not?), but let's just say that build ease and portability are important in my case. I'm favoring LCD right now, but I just can't seem to find an affordable rectular one that doesn't have crap specs.

As I said, I may want simulatenous two players gameplay on this machine: there are not a lot of things more satisfying than Joust with a buddy. On the other hand, this will be a bartop, and as such, will be pretty small and cramped. I'm thinking of a simple 2 joys 2/3 buttons per player COP, no trackball or spinner (gotta leave some stuff for a next project), but even in mock-up, that still seems pretty "intimate" to me, especially when you consider this will be played sitting down and chairs/stools always get in the way. So, for the people who have a bartop that can accomodate two players, does coop games really work/happen often on such a small setup, or is it like 4p upright where it's a feature that is hella cool but pretty much useless ? I'm not thinking of going bigger than a 15" computer monitor and I don't want the control panel to be much wider than the display area. 20" wide total for the machine would be my max. My GF really doesn't care about 2p games wich have simulatenous gameplay: she likes Frogger and that's about it. On the other hand, my brother and friends love some Joust 2p. Dilemma here, since a 1p layout can be more airy and optimized as far as viewing angle goes, but it really cuts down on the party factor, especially on a bartop, where people can't just easily crowd behind and watch.

Thanks in advance.

[HanoiBoi]

Hi NoSkill,

Welcome, my friend, to the machine.

If you and your buddies like Joust and you're considering portability for the purpose of taking it to your friends, 1P versus 2P doesn't sound like much of a decision to make.

If you need more to consider, think of all the other simultaneous 2 player games that you and your buddies might enjoy, and even your girlfriend.  Off the top of my head, there's Trog, Track and Field, Hat Trick, Diver Boy, Head On (apply directly to the forehead)  , Mario Bros. Dr. Mario, Tetris, Klax, Ghost Goalie, Gauntlet, Super Dodge Ball (I think?) and many fighting style games (Double Dragon, Mortal Kombat, etc.).

I'm a Space Duel fan too.  I have 5 buttons per player (Asteroids Style) in an upright, but you could[/i] use a joystick for left right and stay with 2-3 buttons (2, if you omit the shield).

Oh, and if your gf likes Arkanoid, for very little real estate and about $80, you could add a Turbo Twist 2 Spinner.  Good for Tempest too, for the buddies.

Good luck with your project!
HanoiBoi

[NoSkill]

Thanks for the warm welcome HanoiBoi. I'm not much of a fan of fighting games (not at all actually), so that cuts down on the horizontal 2 player games, but as you said, there still are many good ones to be had that can be enjoyed by the casual gamer with a minimal setup. I received an e-mail from a member documenting how he did it and giving me good pointers as to what to look for in a LCD, but I'm realizing that getting a proper one for cheap might just be a pipe dream. The 14" CRT I already have tested well for many of the games I want it to display, including horizontal and vert, plus I won't have to worry about viewing angles as much as with an LCD. A good compromise would be to use this and have the side panels of the machine be flush with the bezel in order to allow for more of a diagonal approach when using it in tandem with someone else (see this link http://bartoparcade.katorlegaz.com/ for a vague example, altough I wouldn't use the same control layout obviously). Two players might end up being less than optimal, but I'd wager that 95% of the machine's playing time will be a flavour of either Frogger, Pac, Donkey Kong or Space Invaders, so I'd rather prioritize what needs to be prioritized. Plus, I remember playing ColecoVision on a small crappy TV in the living room with my brother sitting a gazillion feet away (so we wouldn't hurt our eyes) and we didn't mind back then. This won't be used for marathon sessions but more as a way to free up the TV when I'm alone with the gf (she's tired of me playing NES games on Virtual console). Concessions need to be made.

So back to the drawing board to ponder ideas and actually get an idea of how big this thing would end up being. For the people who have decassed a computer CRT before, how much of a hassle is it to secure it in the case afterwards ? I know that the plastic shell basically keeps all the innards inside the thing and that it doesn't have a chassis like an arcade monitor, so I'll need to build one, but I'm still worried about stuff working itself loose in transport or while playing. As a note, I also know about the DANGERS of messing around with CRTs and since I'm an incredible wuss, I would probably watch the youtube tutorial and read the wiki page at least 100 times before attempting it (and then still have someone knowledgeable do it for me).

[IG-88]

Welcome Noskill   

Personally I think CRT's are the only way to go. I've made several bartops with both and have always liked the "look" of them over LCD's. Not to mention the fact that you can get them for free practically anywheres. 

With that being said however, LCD's are much easier to mount. And don't have the small hazards included with decasing a CRT.

As far as mounting a decased one (do you have to decase?) They can be a little difficult. Not all are the same. I've done them where I just took off the rear part of the case and ones where I took the front bezel off also. They do have a chassis like an arcade monitor but it is usually mounted together with the outer case so if you toss that part you'll have to figure a way to secure it to the inside of the bartop. A few well placed screws and some hot glue will work wonders.

Don't get too freaked about deceasing one either. Just keep your hands away from the anode and it's components. Or build yourself a tool to discharge it. Not at all difficult. Even a 14" can zap ya pretty good but just be smart about it.

Remember too that using a CRT over a LCD will add alot of weight to your machine. I try to use 1/2 ply in mine to cut back on the poundage a little. Besides I think that 3/4 or 5/8 material looks oversized on such a small cab.

Since you are still in the design phase, write yourself a list of the games most likely to get played on it and then go from there. That helps me when figuring out monitor orientation, cp layout, artwork, ect, ect.

And don't forget to post lots of pics and ask lots of questions! This is far and above the best community I belong too and help is easy to get.

[bkenobi]

If you wanted to go a little larger and need a table anyway, you could consider a cocktail cabinet.  If I were going to get rid of my stand up cabs, I would go with one of those over a bar top personally.  I just think playing 2 player games in a cramped space like most bar tops have doesn't seem that appealing.  But, bear in mind that I've never played one, so...

[NoSkill]

The problem with a cocktail is that there is no way I'm going to be able to hide it in the house when I'm gone (or easily lug it around) and I really do not want anyone touching this thing when I'm gone. Story time: the first few years the gf and I lived in our current house, we would leave our wireless router and ADSL modem plugged so people could surf the net. We made it very clear in our "rule sheet" that there were no guarantees the thing would work and that calling the agency that took care of our bookings was useless if they encountered a problem (I had issues with my provider and my internet would be down for days at a time).   

Fast forward to last year: we get a phonecall, while we were 500km away, from the receptionist at the agency. Some jackass had made a scene in their offices about our internet not working and started to demand refunds and what not. We also had kids who got to our Wii (we didn't have a locked room back then, we simply hid it below our staircase) and they managed to break a controller. So I clearly do not want these people to have access to a machine that is most assuredly not as user friendly as a wireless router or kid friendly as a Wii game system. But 99% of the people who come to our house are made out of pure awesome, you just have to think about the sleazeballs and doofuses constantly, so now we don't even mention we have internet and just put away the modem and router. 

Plus, I'm hella whipped and the gf would probably not approve of a cocktail. Gotta ease her in this hobby before building a huge stand up complete with lightguns, steering wheel, flight yoke, and 150 LED pushbuttons

[bkenobi]

There are a number of examples here of people building cabinets that resemble furniture more than a classic upright cab.  I can't remember who built it, but one person here built a cocktail style cab out of an old radio (you know the big wooden box type).  There's also examples of ones built into coffee tables that can either be hidden (you can't tell it's an arcade) or ones that are tastefully incorporated.

If people treat your stuff like crap and are searching your premises for whatever they can find and abuse, I don't see how anything would work for you.  If someone can locate a Wii (smaller than a bread box) then how are you going to hide a bartop (many times larger than a bread box)?

[IG-88]

I'm sorry but I guess I'm just a hick. What the hell do you do for a living? You rent out your house AND belongings to total strangers?

[HanoiBoi]

I'm sorry but I guess I'm just a hick. What the hell do you do for a living? You rent out your house AND belongings to total strangers?

IG-88, pretend it's a shore house.  When you rent out a house, condo, apt, etc., you rent the house and whatever's in it, not locked up. 

NoSkill, I know it's not as aesthetically pleasing, but have you considered simply a portable control panel and laptop running MAME?  You could make it wide enough for two players and it would be very portable.  Maybe a rubber matted bottom to keep it from slipping on any (well, most) surfaces that you might decide to plant it.

An earlier thought I had would be to make something sturdy enough to withstand a small beating, AND disable it when you are renting ("Sorry, it's currently not working").  Then you could offer up a PS2 or something as a sacrifice.   

[NoSkill]

I guess I should explain better my situation. I live in a town that is swamped with tourists during summertime due to the view and the sea. Thus, for people that like to travel or go camping, it's very attractive to rent during summer since it's easy money. We haven't had a year in four years where we weren't booked to the gills. Plus, it helps A LOT with the house payments, you just have to make a few concessions along the way: ie. not having a dedicated game room/basement lounge (yet) and instead having 3 bedrooms. We also put away any personal belongings when we are gone (clothes, books, etc.): so the only "personal" stuff they mess with are our beds (we use plastic covers and different bedware, don't worry) and cookware (I also put away my best knives). 

HanoiBoi, I currently have an X-Arcade controller hooked up to my laptop and I find it less than satsifactory. On a tangent, the people who broke our Wii controller paid it in full, so it's not a case of people being ?$%?"$ as much as kids playing hide and seek, pulling the box on the top shelf and the controller slamming on the ground and breaking. Now we have a locked crawspace where we can hide stuff that a bartop could easily fit in.

[bkenobi]

Then I guess you have a design!  I haven't seen any bartop cabs that look big enough for 2 players yet small enough to truly be considered portable though.  Maybe a showcase bartop?!   

[Knave Jack]

Showcase Bartop!!!! I love that idea!!!!