Anyone ever Direct-Connect a 49-way Joystick?

[fytr]

Hi,

This is my first post here but I've been a long time lurker/learner. I'd like to start by saying "thanks" to everyone here for providing such an incredible resource!

I'm currently working on my 2nd cabinet project (first one was a 2-player SNK/Jamma conversion 7 years ago using Advmame). For the new project I'm converting a gutted Gauntlet Legends cabinet (no boards, monitor, or power) to a Mame cab. For the first phase I was hoping to use the existing control panel (4 x 49-way optical joysticks, 3 buttons each). Phase II (at some unspecified future date) would be a new cp with more controls, buttons, etc.

I've been trying to determine the best way to get the 49-way joysticks to work with Mame (and other emulators). After scouring the net and the forums here I've identified the following options:

• GroovyGameGear's "GP-Wiz49 MAX 49-Way Joystick USB Interface". The "Digital Restrictor Selection" feature sounds great, unfortunately it seems this product hasn't actually been available in a long time, so not really an option at all.

• B-Spec Lab's "AKI 3.0". A bit expensive for all four joysticks (since I'm not even sure I'll be using these in the final cp design), and how do you handle the controller config. with mame and other emulators with this device, so that the joystick is configured correctly for 2-way, 4-way, 8-way, etc. (like "Digital Restrictor Selection")?

• "Direct Connection". Looks like I could just wire up the 49-way joysticks to any suitable keyboard/control pad interface, such as I-Pac, or GP-Wiz40, etc. This is very appealing since it would be much lower cost and I could re-use the interface device later for other buttons, etc. if I decide not to keep using the 49-way joysticks in the long term. I also noticed that the author of that article provides a set of .ini files for mame that map the 49-way to act like a 4-way, 8-way, etc. Using this approach, can I achieve the same functionality as GP-Wiz49 provides in terms of "Digital Restrictor Selection"?
  
  I also found the "Mame Analog Joystick Map Editor v1.4" application. Can this be used with the "Direct Connection" or "AKI 3.0" approach to support "Digital Restrictor Selection" type functionality?

Has anyone tried the "Direct Connection" approach before? What were the results? Is "Direct Connection" too good to be true?

All help is appreciated!

Regards,
  Ken

[fytr]

Note: Edited this post to change the title and to fix the external links which got mangled when I first posted it.

[u_rebelscum]

I've done the direct conncet, but I needed a special version of mame to get it to work correctly in the 49-way games.  They could work fine in mame 4/8-way games if mapped correctly, but they won't work well for analog games.  It won't work for any other emu AFAIK.  It doesn't work with the map editor you linked either. 
I stopped using it this way a long time ago, and don't support a current version of mame with the direct connect hacks.

With the B-spec or gp-wiz49, it works very well with mame and any other emu that can handle analog joystick inputs.  Much more flexible than a direct connect, and easier to use. 

The nice thing about the b-spec is it can work great with arcade (or PC) analog joysticks, too.  (It does 8-way stick too.)  So it can be used on most any joystick you upgrade to, assuming the joystick doesn't come with it's own interface, of course.  A little much for 4, yes, but might be worth it if you reuse two or more of them.  OTOH, if you're upgrading to 4 u360s, not the most fiscally sound investment, even if you use one b-spec for the extra admin buttons.

[fytr]

Thanks.

I guess that I'll need to use AnalogMame for the 49-way joystick supported games (Sinistar, etc.), but regular Mame will work for all the regular 2/4/8-way games (I think)..?

What about the "Digital Restrictor Selection" feature that GPWiz-49 provides? Is that really only necessary for emulators that don't support the joystick mapping feature that Mame does?

What about MESS? Since it's based on Mame would it possibly support the direct-connected 4-ways the same way Mame can?

A bigger issue might be getting any popular front-end to work with the direct-connected 49-ways. Maybe it's a matter of choosing the keys to map to wisely (up = up-arrow, dwn = dwn arrow, etc.) for a basic integration. Any ideas there?

I expect I'll eventually go with 2 U360s (P1 and P2) and 2 Sanwa JLW-TM-8s (P3 and P4) for the final cp unless these 49-ways work out better than I think. I've ordered one GP-Wiz40-Eco USB interface from GGG that I can use for the "Phase I" 49-way integration (in conjunction with an old J-Pac that I have already). If things go as expected for the "Phase II" cp, I can re-use it in conjunction with the U360s. Price is much nicer than 4 x b-spec AKIs would have been.

There's something cool about getting the 49-ways working via direct-connect, the fun is in the soldering, right?

[bkenobi]

Have you considered selling P3 & P4 joysticks and using 8-ways in their place.  I'd guess you could significantly offset the cost of at least one 49-way encoder depending on the condition of the sticks.  Alternately, you could just pull them for backup/parts.

[fytr]

Hi,

That's a good idea -  if I eventually decide to just keep using the 49-ways for P1 and P2, or not use them at all. I want to try them first to see how they feel when playing various games (and to check that the joysticks themselves are working).

I also have a timing consideration in that I want to be able to get this cabinet up and running over the xmas break with the existing CP. I don't want to mess with CP changes right now in terms of drilling new button holes, resizing joystick mounts, etc., and I'm not sure if replacement joysticks would mount in the same locations on the cp that the current joysticks use without changes. So I'm hoping to use the existing controls for awhile and save the new CP as a future project...

Regards,
  Ken

[fytr]

Alright so I was able to take a few hours during the holidays to connect the 49-way joysticks that came with my Gauntlet Legends cabinet via the "Direct Connection" approach as described in the link (basically 8 switches plus common ground and +5v for each joystick). I'm using a GP-Wiz40 USB interface from GroovyGameGear.  However, I've got two problems at the moment:

1. When viewing the GP-Wiz40 Properties/Test panel in the WinXP Gamepad Control Panel (the one that shows all the buttons on the device), I can see that the regular push-buttons (1-up, 2-up, etc.) display as "off"/Open when not pressed, and correctly display as "On"/Closed when pressed. However, 7 of the 8 switches I connected for the optical 49-way joysticks show up as "On"/Closed when the joystick is centered. If I move the joystick progressively further in any direction 1-4 of the switches then turn "off"/Open as you move the joystick further in each direction. This is the opposite of what I was expecting from the "Direct Connection" link above. I was under the impression that the standard Gauntlet Legends joysticks were virtually the same as the Happs49 optical joysticks in this regard.

2. Another issue is that the switch that is supposed to indicate whether the joystick is moving up vs. down is not "on"/closed by default and does not turn on whether you move the joystick up or down at all, thus, no way to tell if which direction the joystick is moving.

To ensure the problem isn't with my wiring harness or the joysticks themselves I have verified these results using two different harnesses, with all four joysticks on the panel, with the same results. I have also verified the switch that isn't functional in #2 above is okay as far as wiring is concerned to the pin of the joystick board (If I short the circuit using the + from the joystick board to the ground on the GP-Wiz40, it shows as "on"/closed).

So, I'm at a bit of a loss... Has anyone done this before with this type of joystick? Any I seeing something unusual? Any suggestions on how to proceed?

Any help is appreciated (and Happy New Year, btw!).

Regards,
  Ken

[arzoo]

Just an FYI: you can use LEDBlinky to set the digital restriction on the 49-way based on the game or emulator - and you don't need any LEDs The only minor issue is that the GP-Wiz40 interface software does not run completely silent - it will show the taskbar (regardless of FE) for a few seconds while setting the wiz40.

[fytr]

LEDBlinky looks awesome! Thanks for the heads-up. I'll definitely be looking into it further as I get into the "polish" phase of things.

The only minor issue is that the GP-Wiz40 interface software does not run completely silent - it will show the taskbar (regardless of FE) for a few seconds while setting the wiz40.

What if the the taskbar is hidden / autohide?

Thx again.
  Ken

[arzoo]

The only minor issue is that the GP-Wiz40 interface software does not run completely silent - it will show the taskbar (regardless of FE) for a few seconds while setting the wiz40.

What if the the taskbar is hidden / autohide?

The FE will still lose focus and you may see the top of the taskbar (thin line) for a few seconds.