OT: Home Theater PC

[reko19]

Hi everyone. With local Blockbuster going out of business I think I am ready to put together a home theater PC. Is there a good forum to visit and get some ideas? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[slapaham]

XBMC provides a good free Media Center set-up. You could even easily make an old Xbox into a pretty nifty Media Center using it as well...

[Ginsu Victim]

OT = Everything Else

[reko19]

XBMC provides a good free Media Center set-up. You could even easily make an old Xbox into a pretty nifty Media Center using it as well...

Good point, I played with it a little when was putting together my juke.  How about hardware? There are many forums available, just want to find out if there is something out there similar to BYAC. Thanks.

[Hoopz]

You may try BYOPVR.com 

The site owner is Rampy who is/was a member here.  He hasn't been active in a couple of years here but he's still running the place there. 

I'm not sure how relative that site is anymore but Rampy's a good guy and may be able to point you in the right direction if his place can't help.

Good luck!

PS - I'll second the Xbox/XBMC but your needs may go beyond what it can do.   

[diazsinger]

Yeah, the original Xbox can't handle High Definition, lots of hiccups.
But you could easily build a pc with modest specs to handle XBMC on a pc.

If you do decide to go with XBMC checkout the script: Navi-X  it is very nice.

[reko19]

thanks guys

[Ginsu Victim]

If you do decide to go with XBMC checkout the script: Navi-X  it is very nice.

+9000!

Navi-X rules!

[diazsinger]

If you do decide to go with XBMC checkout the script: Navi-X  it is very nice.

+9000!

Navi-X rules!

Yes it takes the pain out of finding quality streaming tv/movies etc out of the XBMC experience.
plus the guys at their page are very active in listening to peoples suggestions and making improvements.
If my wife wasn't such a TV nut I would cancel subscription and just use Navi-X for those rare times when I feel like
being a vegtable.


Also OP my advice is don't spend 200.00 on a HTPC case, go to thrift stores ETC. buy an old Stereo Receiver in any
look shape you want and then just mount the pc inside of that, change/mod the front how you see fit and you have alot
cheaper solution and its custom.

[reko19]

Also OP my advice is don't spend 200.00 on a HTPC case, go to thrift stores ETC. buy an old Stereo Receiver in any
look shape you want and then just mount the pc inside of that, change/mod the front how you see fit and you have alot
cheaper solution and its custom.

pretty cool idea

[mwong168]

For my HTPC I'm running Mediaportal (http://www.team-mediaportal.com) use the MyFilms and MyTVSeries plug ins and work great for the last 2 years.  I haven't had a chance to really play around with XBMC but heard great things about it, but Mediaportal works great for me and does everything exactly how I like it.

Now to the original poster, what type of files will you be playing on this HTPC?  Any HD or Bluray rips?  If you are just playing strictly DivX (700meg-1.5gb) avi files then you could get away with a nice ITX ion motherboard with integrated dual core atom cpu from Zotac.  With regards to the case, there is plenty to choose from and I guess buying a receiver for cheap <$10, anything more than that you might as well buy a computer tower or desktop case.  I went with the Thermaltake DH-102 case which I paid nearly $500 for but it has a nice touch screen interface on the front and displays some information when on and came with a remote as well.



Would I do it again?  Probably not but it blends in real nice with my other AV equipment    It was my first attempt at incorporating a HTPC in my living room area and wanted to go all out.  Since then put together a dedicated 12tb media server in my basement which can be accessed by my HTPC in the living room and other computers, laptops and netbooks on the network using mediaportal.

If you need some suggestions on build specs let me know your budget, type of files you will be playing back, size and look of the case, etc I can probably start to answer some of your questions.

[mwong168]

Here are some screen shots from my mediaportal setup







Also can change up the skin but functionality remains the exact same







Friends and family are blown away when they come over and see how much is available at their finger tips and best of all no need to get up and change dvds either.  If you do decide to go with media portal I can help you get everything setup this way to show imdb rating info, amg movie review and impawards movie poster art.

[bkenobi]

AVSForum.com is a really good resource for all things AV.  I don't know if they have the best source of information on HTPC's, but they would have a lot of threads that cover similar topics.

[reko19]

I just started looking into this, so not sure what kind of files I'll be playing, ect. For audio was planning to re-rip my CDs in LAC I guess, not sure about video. I would definitely be looking for a nice case similar to the one used by mwong168. I don't mind spending some $ on the hardware that would last me some time instead of doing it on the budget and having to build another in a year. I need to do some homework, but if someone is willing to give me a hand with components selection I could start pocking around on Newegg to see how much money I need to spend.

One question I have is how good is a DVR interface. Right now I have Comcast DVR and the interface is pretty easy. I could schedule recurring and one-time recording right from the channel guide, etc.  Is there a way to do it with the HTPC? How about premium channels that require their box for access?

Regards.

[mwong168]

Ok, some advice regarding the case.  The case I have is nice and gets all the oohs and ahhs when people see it    honestly i hardly ever use the touch screen on it nor pay attention to the information it displays such as local weather, cnn news, cpu hard stats such as cpu temp, hard drive space, etc...

Now I can tell you when the touch screen would be useful is if you have this setup to a projector and screen.  Now say for example you want to listen to your music, the touch screen will allow you to access for media files whether it be music or video without having to turn on the projector to navigate through media portal or windows media player.  This will save your projector's bulb life from having to turn on and off frequently just to play music files.  Aside from that it is just for the PIMP factor    Trust me, I've built many of these for friends and family and if I could have offloaded my Thermaltake case for close to what I paid for it (~$520CDN) I would gladly do it.  I didn't know any better and my first build so I wanted to go big or go home.

Now depending on if you have decided between tower or desktop case, I would recommend getting this Antec NSK 2480 case if you are after something that sort of looks home theatre-ish.  They also sell this same version with a 2 line LCD text display that is configured using some software called iMON.




The main advantage of this case is that is uses a standard sized power supply which are readily available and inexpensive compared to these other smaller form factor ones found in these microATX or ITX cases such as this other Antec offering which is a smaller desktop profile is the Antec Minuet 350. 




I find the cost to replace these specialized power supplies you are almost better off just buying a new case.  Also by being able to accommodate a standard sized power supply gives you more brand options for after market power supplies.  If you are worried about this HTPC being noisy in your living room you can look at power supplies made by Seasonic, I have one and it's really quiet.  The case itself comes with a good quality power supply but some people might be a bit more anal about noise.

This case is also very well designed in terms of noise reduction by having rubber mounts for the hard drives to minimize vibration and also heat and air flow.  I believe this case retails for around $135-140CDN up here in Toronto.  Again if you don't care for a desktop style case and can live with a tower then your budget can easily be cut by half of this cause generic towers are cheap.

[mwong168]

Now for most of the HTPC's I've built for friends and family I've used AMD CPU's along with Gigabyte motherboards.

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200 Brisbane 2.7GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103210&cm_re=amd-_-19-103-210-_-Product

GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128394&cm_re=gigabyte_motherboard-_-13-128-394-_-Product



This board supports HDMI, DVI, VGA and has toslink for optical audio output as well.  This setup also plays back h.64 and bluray rips flawlessly without having to use third party decoders such as CoreAVC.

Ram will depending on what operating system you plan on using.  If you are planning to stick to 32bit then don't bother getting more than 3gb of ram because that is all windows would recognize anyways.  As for RAM speed DDR2 800 will suffice and anything faster then that would be overkill.  Keep your eyes open for mail in rebates and stick to reputable brands like OCZ, Patriot and my personal preference for the moment is Mushkin.

Rest is pretty straight forward and now hard drives are so cheap you can pick up a 1.5TB for just around $100 mark.  I think for under $500 you can have a decent HTPC with storage to spare unless you are a boarder like me  

[diazsinger]

Now for most of the HTPC's I've built for friends and family I've used AMD CPU's along with Gigabyte motherboards.

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200 Brisbane 2.7GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103210&cm_re=amd-_-19-103-210-_-Product

GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128394&cm_re=gigabyte_motherboard-_-13-128-394-_-Product




You could also stream files from your main pc, so you wont even have to keep things other than your DVR recordings on the pc itself.
This board supports HDMI, DVI, VGA and has toslink for optical audio output as well.  This setup also plays back h.64 and bluray rips flawlessly without having to use third party decoders such as CoreAVC.

Ram will depending on what operating system you plan on using.  If you are planning to stick to 32bit then don't bother getting more than 3gb of ram because that is all windows would recognize anyways.  As for RAM speed DDR2 800 will suffice and anything faster then that would be overkill.  Keep your eyes open for mail in rebates and stick to reputable brands like OCZ, Patriot and my personal preference for the moment is Mushkin.

Rest is pretty straight forward and now hard drives are so cheap you can pick up a 1.5TB for just around $100 mark.  I think for under $500 you can have a decent HTPC with storage to spare unless you are a boarder like me  

[reko19]

Good info, many thanks. Could someone chime in on DVR interface? Can't picture it being as good as the box I got from the cable provider.

[Hoopz]

Good info, many thanks. Could someone chime in on DVR interface? Can't picture it being as good as the box I got from the cable provider.

If you want to build it into the HTPC, then I suggest looking at the BYO PVR site I linked to earlier in the thread.  Unless it changed a lot recently, it's going to have the best resources for what you can do. 

A lot depends on your setup.  Is this machine going to be networked with others or stand alone (albeit with NAS)?  That will affect where you have the capture card and how you have to set it up.

The other question is what are you planning on doing with a dvr in the HTPC that will be different than the one in your existing box?  Do you just want everything in once place and on one menu or is there a need behind the need?

[reko19]

The main reason I am looking into this is to get rid of $25 a month for a DVR and to be able to stream videos from Netflix.  I will most certainly look into web site you recommended, this is just some preliminary discussion just to see if I am on the right track.

[mwong168]

Good info, many thanks. Could someone chime in on DVR interface? Can't picture it being as good as the box I got from the cable provider.

Well I never really looked into the DVR interface but I know Mediaportal does support something called MyTV which comes as part of the base install.

MediaPortal TV

    * Supports analog TV, DVB-C, DVB-T, DVB-S and ATSC
    * HDTV and AC3 support
    * Support for multiple tuners
    * Record, watch, and timeshift Live TV
    * Advanced recording scheduler:
      - Record once
      - Record now
      - Daily o Weekly
      - Weekdays (Mon-Fri)
      - Every time a program appears on this TV channel
    * Timeshifting,Watch, Pause, Rewind, FF, RW Live TV
    * Advanced recording management:
      - Handle conflicts
      - Set recording priorities
      - Quality settings / recording
      - Transcode to WMD, XVID or MPG
      - Diskmanagement auto deletes old and/or watched recordings
    * TVGuide:
      - Grab DVB-EPG & MHW-EPG directly for DVB
      - Supports XMLTV
      - Colors for genres
    * TV Guide search
    * TV Channel grouping
    * Supports over > 10000 channels
    * Auto channel tuning
    * Normal OSD (On Screen Display during movies/tv)
    * Special ZAP OSD (Shows description of what is playing currently on TV)
    * Support for Teletext
    * Standby control to put your HTPC sleeping. It will awake when there a recording needs to start

My guess is you have to find out which TV tuner card to get that is compatible with your local provider?

[Hoopz]

Getting rid of the monthly fee is a great reason. 

The tuner card is the most important aspect of that.  I'd put a lot of time into the ins and outs of the various cards.  I know Hauppauge used to be the best in that area but I'm not sure where it's gone in the last year or two. 

You may do a quick search at Maximumpc.com to see what articles they have on it too.   

[reko19]

another great reference, by the time we are done with this post I'll have all homework done for me.  
checked out BYOPVR.com, a lot of good iinfo

thanks again

[bkenobi]

My Tivo only costs $5.99/month.  I've been throwing this idea around for a while, but haven't done anything about it because I thought the guide data was going to be a big issue.  Can anyone who knows say whether guide data is available for free without the hassle of filling out surveys?  If so, I'll go do more research into everything else.

Thanks for the great info so already provided!

[ChadTower]

Huh I had never seen Navi-X.  It might be time to update the version of XBMC I use.

[DrumAnBass]

Be careful on the case you buy; I went with a cheapo NMedia MATX case that only had 1- 60mm exhaust fan on it, which is whiny, loud and doesn't move that much air.

Wish I had gone with a bigger case packing a few 120mm fans...

Running XBMC and Boxee; thanks for the tip on Navi-X - I will have to check that out!

Definitely check out Boxee;  a new version is supposed to come out today:
http://www.boxee.tv/

[Nacimroc]

Mediaportal = Couldn't get any remote to work without days of programming
Windows Media Centre (xp/vista/7) = Hardcoded subs always on!
XBMC = Unstable on PC I've found (just my opinion)! On xbox its the best media player ever (No HD though)

Always been a fan of HTPC's up till now! I just bought a WD Live HD Media player! About £110! Haven't got it yet, but supposedly its good!

[Blanka]

Buy an ASRock ION with BR drive, and run XBMC on it.

[mwong168]

Mediaportal = Couldn't get any remote to work without days of programming

Getting my remote mapped to Mediaportal was really easy, I just had to map the "ESC" function to another key inside Mediaportal and I was all set.  A few weeks ago I picked up a MCE Infrared Black Remote Control and Receiver for Windows just to test out and got it working pretty well with Mediaportal as well.  But another reason why I regret getting my case is I never use the remote it came with because I prefer to use my Logitech BT Mediaboard instead because sometimes I do surf the net on my 50" plasma and it has a touch pad for the mouse so easy to use on your lap.



This is what most of my friends and family used who I have built HTPC's for.

[reko19]

Posted a question at BYOPVR forum regarding program guide and DVR programming, looks like the same functionality that is offered by Comcats box could be achieved:

"Yes, the shows you want to record can be set to record by their title. As you have touched upon, it requires you to have an EPG-Electronic Program Guide. Windows Media Center, SageTV and BeyondTV have this built in, so you do nothing but enter your zip code and select your provider from the list. There are some free PVR apps that require you to set up the EPG seperate. Many use Schedules direct which I think  is still $20/yr."

[AcidArmitage]

i just tryed navi-x last night and i must say its pretty awesome! thanks to whoever suggested it. Anybody know if there's "How it's made" episodes hidden somewhere on the servers though? 

[urbecrisch]

reko19, I stumbled across this on avsforums.com  Probably one of the best tutorials on what kind of HTPC to buy online that I have found.  It includes links, pics, and costs.  Thinking of building one myself.  Let me know what you decide to build.  This is the updated November 2009 Edition:  http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17591247#post17591247

September 2009 Edition is here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14239742#post14239742

Hope this helps

[reko19]

thanks for the link, will definitely check it out

[Ginsu Victim]

i just tryed navi-x last night and i must say its pretty awesome! thanks to whoever suggested it. Anybody know if there's "How it's made" episodes hidden somewhere on the servers though? 

Use the search function.

[bkenobi]

WOW! I didn't realize that the price of QAM tuner cards had come down so much.  There's a PCIe card that NewEgg sells that can record 2 shows at once for $100.  Anyone know if that's 2 HD broadcasts or is it 1 digital and 1 analog?  Either way, the price of stuff is MUCH more affordable than the last time I looked at this stuff a few years back.

[orion]

I've had a Home theater PC since 1999, my first setup featured an ATI all in wonder card and Sony Vega. Over the years I have certainly developed my opinions on them. First the case is important, mwong168 couldn't be more correct about the non standard power supplies in them.... most of them suck! This is the case I have had for about the last 6 years and the power supply is way under powered at 300 watts. http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=104&type=expert It looks cool though and is pretty rugged and well construed. What always always has let me down about the HTPC's is the DVR aspect to it. Grated I haven't looked into this for several years now but I can tell you if you are with say directv such as myself, than you can pretty forget it all together. The best keyboard and mouse I have ever found for a home theater PC are the Gyration products http://www.gyration.com/index.php/us/home.htm I tend to just use the mouse to play light gun games (not the best solution.. but it does work)

[AcidArmitage]

i just tryed navi-x last night and i must say its pretty awesome! thanks to whoever suggested it. Anybody know if there's "How it's made" episodes hidden somewhere on the servers though? 

Use the search function.

yea my dumb ass just found that

[bkenobi]

The primary concern for me is the DVR.  I have a pair of Tivo's that I was hoping to move away from.  They work ok, but I'm getting fed up with the amount of ads they have started placing in my menus.  I pay for the service, so why do I have to see their ads?!  Also, they sell my usage data.  WTF!

But, if Tivo still works better than an HTPC for regular DVR usage, my wife will never let me switch.   

[DillonFoulds]

+1 for XBMC. Can't be beat, and there's a new beta out as well!

+.5 for the Antec Fusion 430. Decent looking case, I've got it in black, with the blue LCD. The LCD is pretty much useless unless you're 2 feet away. The IR sensor is TOTAL garbage. I'm using a harmony 550, and it works fine, but only when pointed EXACTLY at the IR eye. If you're not pointing directly to it, you're wasting your cash.

[nipsmg]

+ 4billion for XBMC



You can get an original xbox infrared eye with remote ($4.99 on Buy.Com), wire up a USB cable to it, and use it along with event ghost to completely control it via remote (works with any universal remotes recognizing "microsoft dvd player") (Note:   Read AVS Forums for specifics)

Boxee has promise (the new beta might be better) but for a beautiful interface, great media management, and overall ease in use, XBMC on PC is amazing.

(NOTE: Look at Ember Media Manager (free) for managing metadata.  It can be done from within XBMC, but I personally think it's easier to just do it in ember then click a button have have XBMC suck in the metadata, fanart, posters, etc).