Wanted: pics of Plasma tv's with bezel removed

[ivwshane]

Does anyone know if plasmas are built similar to LCD's in terms of how much the edge of the internal housing take up? LCD's typically have about a half inch of internal structure holding the display and I was wonder if it's the same with plasmas or if it's bigger.

Does any one have some pics of a plasma tv with the bezel removed?

For example (LCD):

[Franco B]

I guess this is for a virtual pin build?

I don't know about your bezel question but if you are thinking of using a plasma for your playfield I would suggest thinking again. From what I have read from other builds you don't want to use plasmas as they get much hotter than LCDs and there is nowhere for the heat to escape if they are mounted in the playfields position, especially if under glass too.

It looks from your picture that you may be thinking of using one for the backboard. I assume that would be ok with plenty of ventilation.

I'm no expert by any means but I have just started reading up on pinball builds myself and thought that may help a little.

[RandyT]

I guess this is for a virtual pin build?

I don't know about your bezel question but if you are thinking of using a plasma for your playfield I would suggest thinking again. From what I have read from other builds you don't want to use plasmas as they get much hotter than LCDs and there is nowhere for the heat to escape if they are mounted in the playfields position, especially if under glass too.

I've heard a few people say negative things about plasmas in this application, but I'm not sure they are valid. They do radiate a fair amount of heat, but it's not too difficult to position a couple of vents to allow for convection, or even active cooling with a fan or two.  The weight and bulk of the units is probably a bigger issue.

One thing is certain, though, for fast moving, off-axis viewing, plasmas are still an excellent choice.  I already have one sitting here waiting for me to tear it apart for this.  I'm kind of curious as to what's under the case as well, but I don't want to take it to pieces until I am ready to put it into something else.

RandyT

[DashRendar]

If this is meant to lay flat for a virtual pin machine, you might consider LCD.

Rumor: Handling a Plasma TV is just like handling any other TV!

THE TRUTH: A Plasma screen has hundreds of thousands of image cells sandwiched between two thin sheets of glass. You can't lay a Plasma TV flat on it’s face or even rub hard on a Plasma screen, for fear of causing the screen to crack. Once your Plasma screen cracks, it cannot be repaired.

If you do use plasma, you'll need to decase it either standing up, or laying flat on its back (never flat on its front!).  You'll also need to make sure no one ever sets anything on top of it as the face of a plasma cannot handle any pressure.

Also, regarding plasma vs LCD:

Rumor: Plasma TVs have better pictures than LCD TVs (and vice versa)!

THE TRUTH: Either type of TV will give you a sparkling, razor sharp image on a giant flat screen television. Plasmas have better color, contrast and black level; LCDs can have a sharper image quality and won’t suffer from screen burn-in.

Rumor: Plasma screens suffer from image burn-in!

THE TRUTH: Yes and no! Advances in technology have greatly reduced the problem of screen burn-in on Plasma TVs. It’s harder to do, but you can still experience burn-in with a Plasma TV. The culprit is static images like station logos, video game score boards, computer programs, and stock tickers. Consider buying a LCD or DLP TV; these have no screen burn-in.

http://ezinearticles.com/?10-Biggest-Myths-and-Lies-About-Plasma-TV!&id=573793

[RandyT]

Rumor: Handling a Plasma TV is just like handling any other TV!

THE TRUTH: A Plasma screen has hundreds of thousands of image cells sandwiched between two thin sheets of glass. You can't lay a Plasma TV flat on it’s face or even rub hard on a Plasma screen, for fear of causing the screen to crack. Once your Plasma screen cracks, it cannot be repaired.

If you do use plasma, you'll need to decase it either standing up, or laying flat on its back (never flat on its front!).  You'll also need to make sure no one ever sets anything on top of it as the face of a plasma cannot handle any pressure.

LCD's are just as susceptible to this, if not more so.  One would be foolish to use either without a top glass for a VPin.

Also, regarding plasma vs LCD:

Rumor: Plasma TVs have better pictures than LCD TVs (and vice versa)!

THE TRUTH: Either type of TV will give you a sparkling, razor sharp image on a giant flat screen television. Plasmas have better color, contrast and black level; LCDs can have a sharper image quality and won’t suffer from screen burn-in.

They can also have poor viewing angles, and blurred motion when images are moving quickly, both of which are extremely important considerations in a VPin.  You have to choose wisely.

Rumor: Plasma screens suffer from image burn-in!

THE TRUTH: Yes and no! Advances in technology have greatly reduced the problem of screen burn-in on Plasma TVs. It’s harder to do, but you can still experience burn-in with a Plasma TV. The culprit is static images like station logos, video game score boards, computer programs, and stock tickers. Consider buying a LCD or DLP TV; these have no screen burn-in.

It's usually not "burn-in" in the traditional sense.  It's called "image retention", and it can be "wiped" away (with a built in procedure).  The newer plasmas from Panasonic also don't sequester the gases individually in the cells, rather allow it to move to neighboring cells.  This prevents depletion on a cell-by-cell basis.  Again, one needs to look at these things and choose wisely based upon application.

RandyT

[wp34]

If this is meant to lay flat for a virtual pin machine, you might consider LCD.

Rumor: Handling a Plasma TV is just like handling any other TV!

THE TRUTH: A Plasma screen has hundreds of thousands of image cells sandwiched between two thin sheets of glass. You can't lay a Plasma TV flat on it’s face or even rub hard on a Plasma screen, for fear of causing the screen to crack. Once your Plasma screen cracks, it cannot be repaired.

If you do use plasma, you'll need to decase it either standing up, or laying flat on its back (never flat on its front!).  You'll also need to make sure no one ever sets anything on top of it as the face of a plasma cannot handle any pressure.

I guess I've heard the same thing about plasmas.  They seem like they would be a good fit for VP if you could lay them flat.

[bdjou]

Most manufacturers do not recommend running a plasma display flat on it's back. I remembered running one for 30minutes on its back and there was some image retention when the unit was turned off and on. It eventually went away but I was suprised to see it in such a short period of time.

[ivwshane]

I'm keeping all options open but yes this would be for a virtual pinball machine.

I think randy has the same idea and reasoning I have for looking into plasmas for the play field. I think, in my opinion, the biggest thing that will "sell" (as in look the most realistic) a pinball play field would be the viewing angles and motion blur. If the display has too much motion blur or the viewing angles are too shallow it wont look good and that's my concern with LCD's (unless I spend an arm and a leg for a high end one).

Everything I've read says that plasmas have come a long way and have over come image burn issues and that modern plasma displays use much less power and therefore generate much less heat.

[Franco B]

See, I told you I'm no expert 

I think I'll need to look into this a lot more. I don't want to spend a load of cash on a playfield screen and then it get damaged within a year or so.

[ivwshane]

Hey you and me both!

I'm still in the research phase so it will be awhile before anything actually happens.

[Franco B]

Me too, I imagine it will be six months plus until I have cleared up my current bits and bobs but it doesn't hurt to start to get some ideas together

[RandyT]

Most manufacturers do not recommend running a plasma display flat on it's back.

Please provide a reference.  I own two Panasonics and have never seen anything in any documentation stating this.  They only state that the unit needs to be vertical for transportation, as does any item including large, thin sheets of glass.

I remembered running one for 30minutes on its back and there was some image retention when the unit was turned off and on. It eventually went away but I was suprised to see it in such a short period of time.

I've seen some image retention from the static menus after short periods of time while hanging on my wall as well.  This seems to be some kind of "memory effect", rather than "burn in".  It quickly went away after some normal use.

RandyT

[Justin Z]

I've actually wondered if one of the slim DLPs wouldn't also be a viable option for this.  Seems like there's a lot of depth in a typical pinball cabinet, so there'd be no problem there, and it would be a heck of a lot cheaper.  You'd just have to be especially cautious mounting it since it'd probably weigh 50 pounds or so.  I just don't know if they make slim DLPs that are small enough to fit, since the smaller HDTVs seem to all be plasma and LCD nowadays . . .

[ivwshane]

Don't DLP's use mirrors? I'd imagine that a DLP couldn't take the abuse a pinball machine might dish out. I don't know though.

[Justin Z]

That's a good point . . .  they may be too sensitive for bumps and the like.

[JustMichael]

Don't DLP's use mirrors? I'd imagine that a DLP couldn't take the abuse a pinball machine might dish out. I don't know though.

TILT!

[DrumAnBass]

The DLP is an interesting option, considering a 65" Mitsubishi can be had for $1k: http://is.gd/5dIjX

But I wonder if a projector would be feasible. Seems to work for Microsoft's Surface...