CP Layout Feedback - First Build!

[edubbs]

So this is my first build and i would appreciate some feedback regarding my cp design.

Attached are images and a basic sketchup model of my design.  (thanks Artifact for the components!)

it will be a 4 player cp geared for MAME and other consoles (n64, dreamcast, nintendo).  That being said, i decided on 6 buttons.  it will also have a trackball in the center, but i'm not sure about the placement.  there will be start and coin buttons for each player.  those are on the top.  pause and power buttons will be on the back side of the cp and are not pictured.  i built a keyboard drawer on my cabinet so i have easy access to a keyboard and mouse if necessary.

any and all feedback is appreciated! 

cab specs:
it's a woody!  31" wide
26" LCD TV
4 u360's
24 rgb pushbuttons plus novagem start and coin buttons

[edubbs]

usually no news is good news...

but i can't imagine everyone agrees with this setup? 

please, any feedback is welcomed.

[Turnarcades]

Very good, reminds me of the typical layout we use on our cabinets:



Obviously we use less buttons but I've found many 4-player console games only used 3 or 4 buttons at most and MAME of course only 2 or 3 for 4-player arcade games. Having 6 buttons may seem necessary but check first on the games you intend to play if you can get away with less as you will probably find even on N64 you will rarely need even 4 buttons for many 4-player games.

[edubbs]

switching to 4 buttons would definitely help me out with space on players 3 and 4.  i'll look into it!

do you ever get any complaints on the trackball placement?  i wasn't sure what would be better, having the trackball closer to the middle or closer to the front.  i was worried if it was too far in the middle the player's arm would keep hitting the player 2 joystick.

thanks for the help!

[Xiaou2]

Wow.  I cant believe you angle your sticks.  Sorry, but to me, is very unprofessional.
(Unless you are giving a very stern warning before sale)

 Most all (good) arcade games that had 3+ players Never angled their sticks.  The reason is
simple.  When people think UP.. they press the stick directly towards the screen.  NOT at
a 45 degree angle that they cant even SEE (unless they Look down at the stick itself).

 With an angle, you also lose the ability to play dual control games like smash tv as well.

[Turnarcades]

do you ever get any complaints on the trackball placement?  i wasn't sure what would be better, having the trackball closer to the middle or closer to the front.  i was worried if it was too far in the middle the player's arm would keep hitting the player 2 joystick.

Generally no, but then back in the day many brits never got to play dedicated cabinets so trackball placement memories are varied and many who order are only interested in casual trackball play. A recent customer has requested the trackball closer to the front, but the design of his cab allows for that much easier than on our compact 4-player panels.

Wow.  I cant believe you angle your sticks.  Sorry, but to me, is very unprofessional.
(Unless you are giving a very stern warning before sale)

 Most all (good) arcade games that had 3+ players Never angled their sticks.  The reason is
simple.  When people think UP.. they press the stick directly towards the screen.  NOT at
a 45 degree angle that they cant even SEE (unless they Look down at the stick itself).

 With an angle, you also lose the ability to play dual control games like smash tv as well.

I had a similar discussion about this a while back, with the following points raised:

Smash TV - no-one has ever mentioned this game so obviously isn't important to them. Same applies to Robotron et al. If it was requested, we'd do it. We are a custom outfit after all.

The point about thinking 'up' is square to a person is irrelevant as everyone I've ever met and played with in person (including all my big game fan friends) have never thought anything about this as it takes about 2 seconds for your brain to adjust if you've got any sense of spacial perception, as it does if you play Q-Bert with a vertically-mounted stick. Coupled with this, the outer players themselves are stood square with their controls, looking at the screen on a slight angle, so instinctively go with what's in their hands - I agree if player 1 and 2 on a normal 2-player panel were slightly angled it would feel weird as you are both invariably stood square shoulder-to-shoulder and many games like fighting games require complex quick joystick movements for special moves which may not comes so instinctively. However, most 4-player games are simpler sports games or beat-em-ups where such precise movement is not required and will not affect gameplay.

Not that I need it as friends and every customer we've had agree without questioning it, but my main arguement is that using angled sticks is no different to sitting around playing multi-player games with joypads at home, where you are rarely sat within flat proximity or square-on to the screen (at least in UK homes) for multi-player gaming. Also think of certain Wii games where you use the Nunchuk or D-pad on the Wiimote to move a character around when you're waving your arms and body about at the same time, and this doesn't affect gameplay.

I agree it's not to everyone's tastes, but it's honestly never been addressed as a problem, else we would have amended the set design.

[Xiaou2]

 With a joypad, you can feel the ridges of the pad with your finger... And, because of the
grip and small sticks, there is literally no way to make any mistakes.

 With a happs stick mounted properly, you cant feel what direction is Up.   
The stick being larger and with lots of play also means you can easily get the
angles wrong.   The mere panel angle isnt enough.  And as many people Say they can
adjust with their brains... I can tell you that in the heat of battle, they will most likely
mess up eventually.
 
 Try playing your pals a lightning fast fighter like MK3 on the corners.  See how many times
you mess up a combo or a simple diagonal jump.   I pretty much guarantee you will lose
"UP".

 Obviously, a simple beatem up like Simpsons, isnt going to be like that. However,
it still will be a pain for the person who has the additional task of keeping his controls
'changed' in his mind.  Given the choice of joystick to use, people will scramble for
the squared sticks, for good reason.   Again, its extremely rare that any arcade ever
actually angled their sticks.

[DaveMMR]

Wow.  I cant believe you angle your sticks.  Sorry, but to me, is very unprofessional.
(Unless you are giving a very stern warning before sale)

+1 (although I wouldn't go so far as to call it "unprofessional" as many builders are designing it that way anyhow).

[Turnarcades]

And as many people Say they can
adjust with their brains... I can tell you that in the heat of battle, they will most likely
mess up eventually.

As I explained, I and many others have played on this layout many times at length, and no-one ever messes upor has this problem.

 

Try playing your pals a lightning fast fighter like MK3 on the corners.  See how many times
you mess up a combo or a simple diagonal jump.   I pretty much guarantee you will lose
"UP".

I explained this as well and this is why the centre players on a 4-player panel or those on a 2-player only panel should never be angled. Fighting games are never going to be played on the angled sides anyway.

However,
it still will be a pain for the person who has the additional task of keeping his controls
'changed' in his mind.  Given the choice of joystick to use, people will scramble for
the squared sticks, for good reason.

I originally thought this too before I built my first 4-player panel like this, but again as explained previously, I did enough testing and have built enough of these to say that in practice this is never the case. In fact, most people prefer the edges as the angle and playing position means more shoulder room and only standing next to one person. With a non-angled layout, the panel usually has to be much wider as if the outer players are made to be stood square, you inevitably need more elbow/shoulder room.

I also understand that many original cabs had non-angled layouts, but we were also much younger and smaller then so space wasn't as limited. This point is largely irrelevant in the UK too as I've explained many times, as we rarely got to play many games in their dedicated cabs so commonly played on generic cabinets with different layouts, which is hy we enjoy more freedom in our control layouts in general as we were accustomed to adjusting to new layouts all the time (possibly a major reason why the '7 button for Neo-Geo layout authenticity' is not as popular over here either).

[edubbs]

thanks for the feedback everyone.  looks like i should do a little more testing before i start drilling holes.

(If you only need 4 buttons on each side player, would make space more plentiful)

 Concept:  2D Rotational Panel

 If this is a Pedestal Style, it would be pretty simple to do.   If you want to play trackball
games... simply rotate the pedestal so that the trackballs are nearest you.

 If its not a pedestal, it still can be done.  Just will need a little work to come up with a
good panel lock / unlock system.


 Other concepts: Pull out drawer trackballs.  A lockable drawer which pulls out from underneath
the typical shallow control panel (usually where keyboard drawer is located. Just Move keyboard
pull-out lower)

unfortunately it isn't a pedestal so that wouldn't work.  but i like the concept for future cabinets.

as for the taking out and removing the cp, i'm too lazy to do it on a regular basis.  it would probably limit my use of trackball games.

I originally thought this too before I built my first 4-player panel like this, but again as explained previously, I did enough testing and have built enough of these to say that in practice this is never the case. In fact, most people prefer the edges as the angle and playing position means more shoulder room and only standing next to one person. With a non-angled layout, the panel usually has to be much wider as if the outer players are made to be stood square, you inevitably need more elbow/shoulder room.

anyone ever do a angled control panel but have the players 3/4 with non angled joysticks and buttons?

i like the idea of an angled layout for shoulder space, but i'm wondering how playable an angled cp with non angled controls is?