Thinking of opening an arcade...

[katuuuz]

Hi everyone.

A friend and I are looking into opening a game room/arcade.  I've been looking online for information, and have already printed out a license application.  I figured this forum would be a great place to lay some groundwork in the brainstorming phase.  

I have a few questions pertaining to how things work exactly...

1.  I won't be renting arcade cabinets, I'll have outright bought them.  Do I still need to give a percentage of my profits from the cabinets to the copyright owners?  If so, is there any way to obtain copyrights or permission to use them and keep all the coinage?    

2.  I've built a MAME cabinet before, and it is still fully functional.  For something like this, would I have to be granted permission by every game hosted on the machine to charge patrons to use it?

3.  I was thinking of setting up kiosks for systems like the NES, SNES, Genesis, and N64.  (Like the PS3 kiosk at Best Buy where users can play, but the system is under lock and key).  I would like to put a PC in each kiosk cabinet and emulate these systems.  Does the copyrights to these games hold true with the above?  

What I'm basically trying to say is ; is this doable, and is it going to cost me a bagillion dollars?

Thanks in advance for anyone with knowledge on the subject.

[Turnarcades]

Good luck with the venture, I'm currently in talks about a very different arcade-orientated business but I can let you know what I've learned so far.

1. No, all profit will be yours. Buying and owning original machines gives you rights to use it, within the restrictions of your local laws. Not sure about the US, but in the UK these fall under the same licence as vending machines, which is why they can be sited in all kinds of locations. For low-win fruit machines and SWP machines you need a class 1 gaming licence, at around £2000 a year. For high-win machines you need the casino-level licence, which as I understand is well into 5 figures.

2. Forget MAME'd machines. There are way too many aspects that mean it cannot be used with commercial licences. Assuming you got permission from all involved (the OS designer, the FE designer, the MAME devs, plus of course the original game copyright owners), which is seriously doubtful, the licence fees for running games in this sense are astronomical, and you'd find local licences would not cover them anyway.

3. See above. No, no, no, no, no!

Give up now and save the headache.

[versapak]

Hi everyone.

A friend and I are looking into opening a game room/arcade.  I've been looking online for information, and have already printed out a license application.  I figured this forum would be a great place to lay some groundwork in the brainstorming phase.  

I have a few questions pertaining to how things work exactly...

1.  I won't be renting arcade cabinets, I'll have outright bought them.  Do I still need to give a percentage of my profits from the cabinets to the copyright owners?  If so, is there any way to obtain copyrights or permission to use them and keep all the coinage?    

2.  I've built a MAME cabinet before, and it is still fully functional.  For something like this, would I have to be granted permission by every game hosted on the machine to charge patrons to use it?

3.  I was thinking of setting up kiosks for systems like the NES, SNES, Genesis, and N64.  (Like the PS3 kiosk at Best Buy where users can play, but the system is under lock and key).  I would like to put a PC in each kiosk cabinet and emulate these systems.  Does the copyrights to these games hold true with the above?  

What I'm basically trying to say is ; is this doable, and is it going to cost me a bagillion dollars?

Thanks in advance for anyone with knowledge on the subject.

You won't get any permission or license to legally use any cabinets that run MAME or any console emulators, so that really isn't an issue of money at all.

As for legitimate machines and console kiosks...

I don't know, but I'm betting a lot of it depends on your own local region.

[saint]

RE: MAME cabinet and/or emulation kiosks:

NO! NONONONONO! If you don't know why, you haven't done enough research to even contemplate opening an arcade. It is against the MAME license, and is illegal.

That said, if you're thinking of opening an arcade here is a list of threads you must read on the subject. Then, you'll likely want to find something smarter to do with your money, like burning it. It *is* possible to run such a business, but the days of mom n' pop arcade halls are dead. You need something bigger with something else to drive the business (bowling, restaurant, etc).

Read these:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=81552.0

Read this one three times:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=91583.msg961545#msg961545

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=88244.0

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=71083.0

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=25443.0

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=71148.0

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=43124.0

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=34200.0

Hi everyone.

A friend and I are looking into opening a game room/arcade.  I've been looking online for information, and have already printed out a license application.  I figured this forum would be a great place to lay some groundwork in the brainstorming phase.  

I have a few questions pertaining to how things work exactly...

1.  I won't be renting arcade cabinets, I'll have outright bought them.  Do I still need to give a percentage of my profits from the cabinets to the copyright owners?  If so, is there any way to obtain copyrights or permission to use them and keep all the coinage?    

2.  I've built a MAME cabinet before, and it is still fully functional.  For something like this, would I have to be granted permission by every game hosted on the machine to charge patrons to use it?

3.  I was thinking of setting up kiosks for systems like the NES, SNES, Genesis, and N64.  (Like the PS3 kiosk at Best Buy where users can play, but the system is under lock and key).  I would like to put a PC in each kiosk cabinet and emulate these systems.  Does the copyrights to these games hold true with the above?  

What I'm basically trying to say is ; is this doable, and is it going to cost me a bagillion dollars?

Thanks in advance for anyone with knowledge on the subject.

[CheffoJeffo]

What saint said.

There has also been an interesting series of articles in GameRoom Magazine recently about the demise of an arcade, as told by the owner. His story is much the same as others I have heard.

There have been a couple of initiatives lately that are progressing, but they are more geared towards the "hands-on museum" aspect and are being run by people who restore and repair their own games.

Don't underestimate the importance of machine maintenance and repair -- it can be technically demanding and costly if you can't do it yourself.

[katuuuz]

Well, back to the drawing board then I guess.

Thanks guys.  I guess I just wanted to pretend I could revitalize the local arcade scene.  ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, if there was still such a thing around here, I'd be there all the time, especially now that I could buy $40 worth the quarters without even thinking twice.  Unfortunately it looks like the good old days are gone forever.  I may still be interested in buying a couple machines for my barber shop, but in no way will I be making any type of serious bank on them.

Ah well, back to building 4' replica cabinets to run MAME in for my personal miniature arcade in my hosue.  Thanks again, and -rep to console gaming. 

[Yvan256]

If you don't have a competing "big chain" in the area where people can go rent videogames, making it an all-in-one place for videogames could make it very successful. Imagine a one-stop shop where people can play real arcade cabs (i.e. no MAME), builders can buy arcade parts (joysticks, buttons, T-molding even!), players can buy videogames (PC, consoles), consoles and accessories (gamepads, memory cards, etc) and can also rent videogames  (consoles only, PC games have serial numbers, etc).

Depending on the area, you could also make it a "PC shop" where people can buy computers or at least gaming-related components (i.e. computer parts such as cases, motherboards, CPUs, RAMs, hard drives, graphic cards, keyboards, mouses, monitors - but not printers, scanners, etc).

If you don't want to do it all, maybe check with local businesses, perhaps you could team up with someone already established as a "gaming place", simply run arcade machines from there. Or just ask some businesses if they'd be interested in having arcade machines on their location: videogames rental places, movies rental places, bowling alleys, etc.

[katuuuz]

If you don't have a competing "big chain" in the area where people can go rent videogames, making it an all-in-one place for videogames could make it very successful. Imagine a one-stop shop where people can play real arcade cabs (i.e. no MAME), builders can buy arcade parts (joysticks, buttons, T-molding even!), players can buy videogames (PC, consoles), consoles and accessories (gamepads, memory cards, etc) and can also rent videogames  (consoles only, PC games have serial numbers, etc).

Depending on the area, you could also make it a "PC shop" where people can buy computers or at least gaming-related components (i.e. computer parts such as cases, motherboards, CPUs, RAMs, hard drives, graphic cards, keyboards, mouses, monitors - but not printers, scanners, etc).

If you don't want to do it all, maybe check with local businesses, perhaps you could team up with someone already established as a "gaming place", simply run arcade machines from there. Or just ask some businesses if they'd be interested in having arcade machines on their location: videogames rental places, movies rental places, bowling alleys, etc.

That's a good idea.  Buy and refurbish arcade games and just plant them around the town in various stores that are willing to have them.

[RayB]

No, those days are over. Most businesses that have space and clientele for coin-operated machines ALREADY are under contract with "operators" who place their machines there and split revenue with the location owner. There's a REASON why you see more of those "Stacker" "win a prize" type machines, food and drink vending machines, etc instead of video games now.

Don't waste your time. The only thing that can work is a retro arcade / museum, and you have to be really passionate and knowledgeable to pull it off (not to mention have dirt cheap rent, and family to help run it, otherwise the costs are too high).

Another thing no one mentioned is taxes and permits which vary by State/Province and even by City. You never mentioned where you live.

[katuuuz]

No, those days are over. Most businesses that have space and clientele for coin-operated machines ALREADY are under contract with "operators" who place their machines there and split revenue with the location owner. There's a REASON why you see more of those "Stacker" "win a prize" type machines, food and drink vending machines, etc instead of video games now.

Don't waste your time. The only thing that can work is a retro arcade / museum, and you have to be really passionate and knowledgeable to pull it off (not to mention have dirt cheap rent, and family to help run it, otherwise the costs are too high).

Another thing no one mentioned is taxes and permits which vary by State/Province and even by City. You never mentioned where you live.

I live in CT.  Yeah, this idea has really been shot down.  Thanks everyone for the input, I guess any games I come across will either go in my barber shop or in my spare bedroom turned arcade I guess.  Thanks again.

[zelony]

I own a Gaming Center and Internet Cafe with 33 PC's and 10 XBOX 360's.  In the last 6 years I have about $700,000 in sales and have never turned a profit.  I suggest that you save your money and avoid this industry like the plague.

[SavannahLion]

I own a Gaming Center and Internet Cafe with 33 PC's and 10 XBOX 360's.  In the last 6 years I have about $700,000 in sales and have never turned a profit.  I suggest that you save your money and avoid this industry like the plague.

Have you considered writing your experiences?

[aumameman]

It is really sad that the day of the Arcade game centre is dead. You do find the odd one around the place in Australia but there is far less of them than there were 10 years ago.

Its even getting hard to find a "Daytona USA" machine to play as I don't think they turn a profit anymore.

[katuuuz]

It is really sad that the day of the Arcade game centre is dead. You do find the odd one around the place in Australia but there is far less of them than there were 10 years ago.

Its even getting hard to find a "Daytona USA" machine to play as I don't think they turn a profit anymore.

Well, when I die and go to heaven, I will be in the arcade section.

[Expressline99]

Katuuuz, its horrible to even read this thread. But everyone here is dead on. I've also been following the series in GameRoom Magazine and
it plots a story that lots of Mom and Pop arcades are following now... for those that are still hanging on. Sorry about your dream...at one
point it was mine too.

 

[katuuuz]

Katuuuz, its horrible to even read this thread. But everyone here is dead on. I've also been following the series in GameRoom Magazine and
it plots a story that lots of Mom and Pop arcades are following now... for those that are still hanging on. Sorry about your dream...at one
point it was mine too.

 

Thanks Express.  Some of my funnest times as a kid was running madly through the doors of Jester's Courtyard, (A huge arcade attatched to my local Burger King) and heading straight for the Metal Slug machine with a fist full of quarters.  Pounding those buttons with my Whopper-greased fingers and listening to the ambient noise from all of the other machines will be a warm place for me to visit in memory for the rest of my life.  It closed down in the early 90s and remained an abandoned building for years, until one day I drove up East Main Street and it was leveled completely.  (If only I was into building arcades back then I probably scored a ton of cabs. 

If I ever come into a serious amount of money I will embark on this venture.  Not being at all profitable, I guess I won't be able to share the greatness of the local arcade for the kids in my town today, so it will solely remain a personal hobby.  I guess it is just like our parents and their transistor radios, or ball room dances.  Some great things just go away and can't come back. 

R.I.P. Jester's Courtyard

[DashRendar]

This industry isn't THAT dead!  As was mentioned earlier, you just need a gimmick or something else besides arcade games.

Maybe open up a Dave & Buster's franchise in your area?  The one we have here is always busy with lots of people playing arcade games and whatnot.  

http://www.daveandbusters.com/

[HaRuMaN]

franchise, meh...

[katuuuz]

This industry isn't THAT dead!  As was mentioned earlier, you just need a gimmick or something else besides arcade games.

Maybe open up a Dave & Buster's franchise in your area?  The one we have here is always busy with lots of people playing arcade games and whatnot.  

http://www.daveandbusters.com/

Well a friend and I were actually going to be partners as I think I stated before.  We are both aware of the death of arcades, and he was trying to convince me to do laser tag as the main attraction, and have an arcade room branched off of that.  We actually went into a laser tag place this past Saturday and the kid working there actually gave us a tour of the place and answered a lot of our questions.  They had 40 vests/guns which were priced at about $1,200 a piece.  That is my only gripe - the high cost of laser tag.  I suggested an indoor roller rink because the skates would be a lot cheaper, but he wasn't into it.  I guess if this were to one day happen we would indeed need something else and unfortunately the arcade would be an "addition" to whatever that may be. 

P.S. I'm against franchises too, but serving alcohol is definitely something that would included  

[HaRuMaN]

Not to mention:

Dave & Buster's is wholly owned and operated and not franchising at this time.

[Aceldamor]

This industry isn't THAT dead!  As was mentioned earlier, you just need a gimmick or something else besides arcade games.

Maybe open up a Dave & Buster's franchise in your area?  The one we have here is always busy with lots of people playing arcade games and whatnot.  

http://www.daveandbusters.com/

 We actually went into a laser tag place this past Saturday and the kid working there actually gave us a tour of the place and answered a lot of our questions.  They had 40 vests/guns which were priced at about $1,200 a piece.  That is my only gripe - the high cost of laser tag.

On the flip side, it is a one time expense, short of maintenance. Overhead is going to be a tough one here, since laser tag arenas have to be very large to be any fun. There is a laser tage place that opened up by where I live, and it is slow going. It doesn't even open until 2PM during the school year.

  I suggested an indoor roller rink because the skates would be a lot cheaper, but he wasn't into it.  I guess if this were to one day happen we would indeed need something else and unfortunately the arcade would be an "addition" to whatever that may be. 

P.S. I'm against franchises too, but serving alcohol is definitely something that would included  

Roller rink huh? Could potentially make you some money, but only if you could hook schools, clubs, etc on regularly renting the venue, and again, it would be a night time only scenario.

We recently lost another arcade here in Phoenix, which pretty much leaves the only big arcade being Castles N Coasters, and arguably Golfland/Fiddlestix. The ONLY reason Castles N Coasters is still in business is because they built a small amusement park around the arcade/goofy golf. They now have like 10 rides, 2 coasters, and a water ride attraction. The same stands for the other parks, they get their revenue from other attractions.

[katuuuz]

This industry isn't THAT dead!  As was mentioned earlier, you just need a gimmick or something else besides arcade games.

Maybe open up a Dave & Buster's franchise in your area?  The one we have here is always busy with lots of people playing arcade games and whatnot.  

http://www.daveandbusters.com/

 We actually went into a laser tag place this past Saturday and the kid working there actually gave us a tour of the place and answered a lot of our questions.  They had 40 vests/guns which were priced at about $1,200 a piece.  That is my only gripe - the high cost of laser tag.

On the flip side, it is a one time expense, short of maintenance. Overhead is going to be a tough one here, since laser tag arenas have to be very large to be any fun. There is a laser tage place that opened up by where I live, and it is slow going. It doesn't even open until 2PM during the school year.

  I suggested an indoor roller rink because the skates would be a lot cheaper, but he wasn't into it.  I guess if this were to one day happen we would indeed need something else and unfortunately the arcade would be an "addition" to whatever that may be. 

P.S. I'm against franchises too, but serving alcohol is definitely something that would included  

Roller rink huh? Could potentially make you some money, but only if you could hook schools, clubs, etc on regularly renting the venue, and again, it would be a night time only scenario.

We recently lost another arcade here in Phoenix, which pretty much leaves the only big arcade being Castles N Coasters, and arguably Golfland/Fiddlestix. The ONLY reason Castles N Coasters is still in business is because they built a small amusement park around the arcade/goofy golf. They now have like 10 rides, 2 coasters, and a water ride attraction. The same stands for the other parks, they get their revenue from other attractions.

Yeah I think the roller rink would work.  There literally is nothing to do around my town, and we used to have one that closed down.  I remember everyone had birthdays there and it was the weekend hangout.  (They also had an arcade there).  Try playing Mortal Kombat with skates on.  I think I used the joystick more for balance then movement.

[shardian]

I HATE this multipart article. The guy sounds like a real jackass. He admits in the very beginning he had absolutely no clue what he was doing, and just bought a load of cheap games and threw them in a building. I don't like his snobbish, derogatory tone. I only read it because I read all of my GRM issues cover to cover.

There is no lesson in that article other than a universal business lesson. DON'T START A BUSINESS WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- ABOUT YOUR PRODUCT!
You wouldn't go open up a car repair center or a car dealership without knowing alot about car sales or car repair would you? Then why in the world would you do the same with expensive arcade machines and a really poor market?

::Rant off::

What saint said.

There has also been an interesting series of articles in GameRoom Magazine recently about the demise of an arcade, as told by the owner. His story is much the same as others I have heard.

There have been a couple of initiatives lately that are progressing, but they are more geared towards the "hands-on museum" aspect and are being run by people who restore and repair their own games.

Don't underestimate the importance of machine maintenance and repair -- it can be technically demanding and costly if you can't do it yourself.

[DashRendar]

Not to mention:

Dave & Buster's is wholly owned and operated and not franchising at this time.

Yep- but you could use their business model for your own.  Have a full bar, restaurant, skeeball, multiplayer games, party atmosphere, etc.

Seems to work for them, should work for you.

[Dartful Dodger]

Yeah I think the roller rink would work.  There literally is nothing to do around my town, and we used to have one that closed down.  I remember everyone had birthdays there and it was the weekend hangout.

There is nothing that's not online for kids to do anywhere.

So if you build it they will come.

Kids from all walks of life from all over will come and eventually the tougher/thug kids will squeeze out/scare away the good kids so you’ll just be catering to vandals and thieves.

My sister had her nieces b-day party at roller rink.  It was a lot of fun in a really good neighborhood, it was during the day and the roller rink was only open to b-day parties or rented to groups.  On weekend nights it was opened up to the general public.  At the party I thought it would be a fun place to take a date, sort of like a nostalgic thing.  

At night it was all wannabe gangbangers and thugs.  I told my sister and she laughed and said on the weekends the police are called there a couple times a night.  She said I was lucky, if enough kids from competing schools show up, it becomes a warzone.

Maybe I just hate people or I'm too pessimistic, you should go to the closest roller rink to where you want to have one.  This will more or less be your clientele too.  You can see for yourself if this is what you want to be dealing with.
     ...bring a couple of big friends with you and don't bring any dates.

[SavannahLion]

  I suggested an indoor roller rink because the skates would be a lot cheaper, but he wasn't into it.  I guess if this were to one day happen we would indeed need something else and unfortunately the arcade would be an "addition" to whatever that may be. 

P.S. I'm against franchises too, but serving alcohol is definitely something that would included  

Roller rink huh? Could potentially make you some money, but only if you could hook schools, clubs, etc on regularly renting the venue, and again, it would be a night time only scenario.

Why night? IIRC, some of the local rinks around here have regular clubs complete with competitions between clubs and regional contests. My fiance wants me to join, but being a mountain blader (instead of freestyle) with a wonky schedule kind of precludes that... oh and being severly out of shape doesn't help either. 

We recently lost another arcade here in Phoenix, which pretty much leaves the only big arcade being Castles N Coasters, and arguably Golfland/Fiddlestix. The ONLY reason Castles N Coasters is still in business is because they built a small amusement park around the arcade/goofy golf. They now have like 10 rides, 2 coasters, and a water ride attraction. The same stands for the other parks, they get their revenue from other attractions.

+1

There's a mini-golf/arcade in Sacramento that installed a ride or two. A major distraction since it's right there on the highway, but the ride seems to be running all the time.

John's Incredible Pizza also sports an all-you-can-eat buffet with indoor rides.

Maybe I just hate people or I'm too pessimistic, you should go to the closest roller rink to where you want to have one.  This will more or less be your clientele too.  You can see for yourself if this is what you want to be dealing with.
     ...bring a couple of big friends with you and don't bring any dates.

I've never actually encountered that at any rink I've ever gone to... of course, it could be the time of day since I tend to avoid places at night. Stupid ---uvulas--- here can't drive worth a damn and it's worse at night.

Instead of a roller rink, what about an ice rink? It's strange, but while you still get a few "thugs" and wannabe "gangbangers" they seem to avoid any place cold like it's infested with a plague. I guess those Raiders jackets and blue jeans don't keep them as warm as they thought? Of course, you still get those idiots who think they're all that and push other people around, but that's why you reserve the right to refuse service. 

There are other venues popping up that you can consider. All of them in or around the Sacramento area.

A gym with indoor basketball and soccer courts. Anemic arcade though.

A "bounce house" type of place. Giant rooms filled with massive bounce house type attractions. They sported only one arcade with was a commercial multi-cade type of thing, and the stupid thing wasn't even plugged in. 

A new attraction opened up recently where an entire room(s?) is nothing but trampolines and basketball hoops. Have no idea if they sport an arcade though. 

[zelony]

When I first opened Click's we were a full Bar & Grill with 50 PC's, two pool tables, a foosball machine, two dart boards, Golden Tee and 11 booths with TV's and old school atari games.  Even with $30,000 a month in sales the overhead killed us.  We eventually closed and moved to the mall where we are just a gaming center and internet cafe.  Our customer base keeps dropping because more an more they have their own computers and consoles at home so they only come in to play if they want a group dynamic.

I have a full time job outside of Click's as it has never been able to pay me a salary.  I strongly advise anyone thinking of this type of business to think twice.  I have spent over $400,000 on this place and never made a profit and most likely never will.

Good luck to anyone trying it.

Jeff

[katuuuz]

When I first opened Click's we were a full Bar & Grill with 50 PC's, two pool tables, a foosball machine, two dart boards, Golden Tee and 11 booths with TV's and old school atari games.  Even with $30,000 a month in sales the overhead killed us.  We eventually closed and moved to the mall where we are just a gaming center and internet cafe.  Our customer base keeps dropping because more an more they have their own computers and consoles at home so they only come in to play if they want a group dynamic.

I have a full time job outside of Click's as it has never been able to pay me a salary.  I strongly advise anyone thinking of this type of business to think twice.  I have spent over $400,000 on this place and never made a profit and most likely never will.

Good luck to anyone trying it.

Jeff

Damn, sorry to hear that Jeff.  Click's looks like a pretty cool place indeed.  I guess I'm not willing to be out $400,000 with no profit coming in.  How do you stay open?  You just make enough for the business to stay afloat? 

[zelony]

It barely makes enough to cover payroll and rent.  But for some reason, I keep trying.  I have decided that the next time sales drop and I need to cover payroll out of my own pocket I will just close the place.

[protokatie]

I wonder if one way to make an "arcade" work is to have a Bowling Alley with a side room with coin op pool tables, a bar/grill and an arcade room. I would guess that the only way to make any of this sort of thing work is to diversify and have as many draws per square foot of real estate as you can fit. I know where I live, bowling is still pretty popular, and I could see indoor golf (the virtual golf thing) being popular as well since there are a lot of golfers, and there is no winter golfing season (snow is not only difficult to swing on, but just try to find your white titleist ball in it )

[MonMotha]

I've known several arcade/amusement center operators/owners over the past few years.  There seem to be a few themes from their experiences:


Bigger is often better.  Unless you're in a high foot traffic location like a mall, you're a destination.  You need something big, mostly for the kids.  Laser tag seems popular enough to earn profit.  Miniature golf can work.  Go-karts can work.  Carnival rides can work.  Bowling can work.  The coin-op games complement at that point by providing things for people to do while waiting for the big stuff.

If you can do the full blown "Family Entertainment Center" or "Eat and Play Center" thing ala Chuck-e-Cheese or Dave&Busters and Gameworks, you can make money.  This requires an insane amount of capital, though, in the millions of USD, to start up.  Make sure your market can support it.  Those kinds of establishments have rather high fixed cost, so you need lots of volume.  You'll make a lot of money on alcohol sales, so look into the liquor licensing rules in your area.


Redemption earns but video doesn't.  Sorry, I know the classic people all love 'em (and I do too - I don't like redemption), but the video games just don't earn with the exception of the crazy expensive dedicated games.  Video games are mostly there to occupy the older clientele (parents, lone teens) while their kids blow tons of money on redemption or laser tag.  You have to keep your margins in mind on the redemption, though: tickets are about 1c/ea in smallish quantity, and you can't blow your potential profit away on the prizes.  Remember to factor costs in when you take count at the end of the week.

For videos that earn, look at shooters, racers, in some markets, the dedicated music games (mostly Dance Dance Revolution), generally in that order.  These games are big, so factor your cost in terms of floor space in.

For redemption that earns, the cheezy things like Slam-a-Winner, Colorama, and cheezy coin pushers seem to do best, usually in that order.  The latest redemption craze can do well at first, but they don't seem to have staying power, so it's a gamble: either buy it and hope it pays itself off eventually or buy it, milk the initial rush, then try to sell before it loses much value.

Skill based redemption games like Skee Ball earn OK.  These usually also serve to occupy parents while their kids are playing, but again be sure to factor in redemption costs.


Food makes bank.  If you've got the venue for a snack bar, it's where a bunch of your money will come from.  One place I knew could basically map their profit to their soft drink sales.  The rest of the place basically broke even.

Full blown restaurants have lots of overhead.  If you're planning to go that route, make sure you do your homework.  The restaurant is almost a separate entity with both sides attempting to drive business to each other.

A bar can be effective (see D&B "Eat, Drink, and Play"), but has lots of legal hassle and can attract an undesireable clientele or promote undesireable behavior if you're going for a more family oriented location which could keep away people with young children.


Mornings are dead.  Don't even bother being open.  There's no reason to open until about 1PM on a non school day and 3-4PM on a non school day.

Weekdays are also dead at destination establishments.  Consider taking Mondays and/or Tuesdays off.  Also consider that some of your costs don't go down just because you do that.


Staff is a killer in terms of economics.  Most of the small establishments I know wouldn't be in business if it weren't for the owner and sometimes even the owner's family working free or very cheap.


In a nutshell, the pure video arcade is dead.  If you want to have a viable business, you need something else: at least redemption, and then you need a lot of foot traffic nearby.  Make sure you research your market before you do anything, and be prepared to shell out lots of cash up front and lose it all.  If you do make money, you won't make much.  Do it because it's fun, not because it's a way to earn a living.

[IG-88]

There is a place in Omaha called Bene's Pizza that is all '80s retro. Has 10+ machines and a few pins. It's a great place to go. The pizza is pretty good but not sure if it's the only draw. They been hanging on for quite a while now. I try to go everytime I'm in town. Whether I'm hungry or not. They sell beer too so that helps. 

There is also 1984 in Springfield Mo. They seem to be doing OK too....

I think it can still be done. But it's going to take one hell of a commitment. And I doubt you'll get rich at it.

[katuuuz]

Well I understand why the arcades died, I just don't understand why they had to.  It's too bad they are now categorized as "secondary attractions."  Every time I see a classic arcade game ported for download on XboxLive or PS3 marketplace, I just shake my head in dismay.  Granted I too am a console gamer, I would still support a local arcade had I one to support.  "We can play online and talk through a headset."  That is nothing in comparison to kicking the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of your buddy in Street Fighter and then elbowing him in his ribs...  Or talking your sister into getting a prize that you like with all of her hard earned tickets.  I'm almost too stubborn to open a laser tag just to "sucker" people into my real dream.

Maybe it's just us who think like this though.  

What if I, in some way, were to collect a large amount of really classic arcade cabinets over the course of a few years... I'm talking about Pong, Galaga, DK, etc. and aimed my business at today's dads.  The 25-45 year-olds who have lived the experience.  Serve beer, and just have classic games they grew up with.  Hook up a Sirius radio system with the 80's channel on heavy rotation...  Granted I may be shooting myself in the foot by sectioning off a particular user base, but I know there has to be a ton of people in that age range that would eat it up.  Get away from the family and work, and go back in time 20 years to their childhood.  Maybe it's just a pipe dream, but I think if it was done/pitched right, it could be big.  Employ washed up 80's bands once a month for next to nothing due to their fizzled out careers...  Just go all out so that when you walk through the doors, you'd be convinced it was 1987.  I would actually be willing to do that indoor virtual golf along with it.  If I had to do something, that was a good idea.  I'd just hate to give up on it.  I'm convinced it could work if it was done right.

**edit:  And if Microsoft and Sony are offering these old arcade games for download, there has to still be a demand to play them, no?  And I'm not looking to retire on this idea.  If it can maintain itself it would be worth it. 

[Epyx]

What if I, in some way, were to collect a large amount of really classic arcade cabinets over the course of a few years... I'm talking about Pong, Galaga, DK, etc. and aimed my business at today's dads.  The 25-45 year-olds who have lived the experience.  Serve beer, and just have classic games they grew up with.

Speaking as a Dad...the main problem with this is one of time...most of us are here with this hobby because it allows us to maximize time by having cabs at home in a gaming room or basement where we can retreat to and whiddle away precious minutes/hours.

I think the sad reality is that arcade collections are fringe among us now and no longer mainstream. The good news is, many of the members have contributed to preservation of these nostalgic beautiful cabs...which is exactly what you would be doing...just not making a lot of money doing it

I mean if you were in my neighbourhood i'd show up as often as I could and a few others might as well but the mainstream...the ones that were us back in the day...the teens of today would rather be on their Xboxes/PS3s/PCs than in an arcade.

[IG-88]

@ katuuuz I've been thinking about this. This is still America. If you want to do this and make it work then go for it. It will not be easy, but if you want it bad enough then try it. And if it don't work or you don't like it after all then at least you can say you tried.

I know when I first went into business for myself (not an arcade, never thought of it) I did alot of research. First off don't take advice from people that have failed at it. They obviously didn't do something right. Or from people that theorize about it either. Start out on the web and find places that are still in biz and succeeding and ask them about their business model. If you aren't in the same geographical area then you won't be competing with them. Explain what you want to do. Do you have a SBA in your area? Ask them for help. I hate this defeatist attitude people love to spew everytime this subject comes up.   

I like the idea of catering to 45 yr old dads. Personally I think this generation is going to have more and more time on their hands. (and more  $$) A few years and my kids will be gone. I already have more time than I did when they were toddlers.

You probably aren't ready to compete financially with the big chains. Find a niche market and capitalize on it. Don't give up yet.....

[CheffoJeffo]

I hate this defeatist attitude people love to spew everytime this subject comes up.  

I don't think that ANY of us like having to be negative about proposals like this -- some of us have considered and even helped with initiatives like this in the past -- but reality is what reality is and those with less experience deserve to know about that reality before they charge off.

I like the idea of catering to 45 yr old dads. Personally I think this generation is going to have more and more time on their hands. (and more  $$) A few years and my kids will be gone. I already have more time than I did when they were toddlers.

It is an interesting idea, but how big is that demographic in his market ? It sounds like he is in a smaller market, so that may be a problem. OTOH, being in a smaller geographic market may have advantages -- less competition and easier to be a destination.

There is a guy opening an arcade museum here in town (city of 3+million) and he has an AWESOME (in terms of titles) collection, including some very rare machines. I want to support him, thought about sitting on the board and am considering loaning machines for an exhibit. I would be surprised, however, if I end up going there even once a month because it is quite a haul for me across the city to get there.

While finding a niche and having a rough business plan are important, I think we're putting the cart before the horse here.

To my mind, the very first thing that the OP needs to do is to learn more about arcade machines -- particularly how to fix them. It isn't like you can dial 1-800-FIX-VIDS and the repair genie shows up.

EVERY machine will break and will need to be fixed. He may be able to ship some stuff out for repair, but that still requires some knowledge and it gets expensive relative to earnings fast. Pinball is worse. I dunno nothing about redemption, but I can't imagine they're much fund to maintain.

 

[RayB]

To add to Cheffo's mention of the museum. The owner (from the impression he's given) is pretty financially well-off, so this venture is more "fun" than business risk. Just wanted to mention that in case anyone was thinking of doing the same but bankrolling it off loans.

[IG-88]

I wholeheartedly agree that the OP needs to learn to work on the machines. I did say it wouldn't be easy. But really, were not talking rocket science here. If I can learn how to fix these then about anybody can. They aren't all THAT complicated.

And as far as going for a startup business loan, he better have a damn good business plan down on paper that shows that this can make somewhat of a profit or no bank in their right mind is going to give out any $$. Instead of a loan, why not save up the money to bankroll it using cash?

I like the museum bit too. Personally if there was a place anywhere like what Cheffo was saying within 45 min of me I'd be visiting alot more than once a month. (I think)

Maybe he could file for an exempt 501 C? I think there is a section that covers Social and Recreational Clubs. That would help come tax time considerably....no?

[CheffoJeffo]

I like the museum bit too. Personally if there was a place anywhere like what Cheffo was saying within 45 min of me I'd be visiting alot more than once a month. (I think)

That's what I thought, but after making the drive a couple of times and given the fact that I have 20 games here (many making repair demands on my spare time), it isn't as attractive an option as I thought it would be. Part of the reason is that the location he ended up at isn't all that convenient for me to get to

An example of a recently opened (a "soft open" -- they haven't officially launched) arcade museum in McLean, IL, operated by Vectorman from KLOV:

http://www.vintagevideogames.com/

It is doable, but I think that RayB is dead on about financing.

[Dartful Dodger]

An example of a recently opened (a "soft open" -- they haven't officially launched) arcade museum in McLean, IL, operated by Vectorman from KLOV:

http://www.vintagevideogames.com/

Too bad, that's over 2 hours away from my house.

[IG-88]

7 hrs 54min for me.  Sounds like a road trip. 

[DashRendar]

Hmm, that brings up a good point though.

Operational costs are much higher than they were in 1983.  So machines that took a quarter back then may have been able to cover the costs, but that might not be the case now.

I see in Vectorman's arcade that he'll be charging an admission fee.  I guess that's one way to keep the games running off quarters.

I do think that you'd HAVE to sell food and beverage to make this viable.  Private parties would be a big help too (you sell the cakes, rent a party room out, etc etc).

Also, being on or near a college campus would help a lot.

[Epyx]

Nice! Do they have a link on that site on which games are in the museum?

[Turnarcades]

Hmm, that brings up a good point though.

Operational costs are much higher than they were in 1983.  So machines that took a quarter back then may have been able to cover the costs, but that might not be the case now.

I see in Vectorman's arcade that he'll be charging an admission fee.  I guess that's one way to keep the games running off quarters.

I do think that you'd HAVE to sell food and beverage to make this viable.  Private parties would be a big help too (you sell the cakes, rent a party room out, etc etc).

Also, being on or near a college campus would help a lot.

It's in this format I'm currently in talks about to create an entertainment centre/gaming museum/party venue here in the UK.

[Ummon]

There's one rink left in Tucson. I think there were only ever two anyways, and one of 'em was the north location of Skate Country, so now only the East one exists. They do pretty good business, and there's no weird ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- going on.

Adult night they don't even have monitors on the floor. Everybody just skates about as they want, just not real fast. Probly a hundred people or so make it. Regular times are much busier. Also, schools have the place locked up a year and a half in advance for parties, with days here and there open for parties for anybody else, but mostly not.

If your population is big enough, and you're the only gig in town, it might work. But seriously look into the details - including insurance.

We had an ice rink they built in the late 80s/early 90s that closed a few years ago, and Tucson is a million people now.


Ace - what arcade are you talking about?

[HaRuMaN]

Probably the one in the mall right across from Castles and Coasters

[drawfull]

I wanted to do it too, but it will not work on its own. We realised that (with help from here) early on and ended up with three floors, only one of which has a FEW games. And they're all on free-play.

Generally mine is quite successful but by far it's the food that brings people - the games at the moment are a nice touch perhaps and we're getting more and more people booking that space out for private functions.

We currently have 6 retro games, two B&O tvs for presentations and sport I suppose and are about to put DDR in there too for Xmas. We also have a load of board games and stuff. Keep it fresh, offer something different (easier where I live) and you have a chance, but games alone, imo, will not make you $$

Games are not cheap. Rent, or buying somewhere, is certainly not cheap. Consider putting food on? Bars? Making it look nice? You will spend $$$$$.

I guess it depends what you want and what your budget is (as budget increases, common sense decreases too), good luck!!!!

If you want some tips on what it cost and stuff drop me a pm and it should give you a frame of reference

[MaximRecoil]

Am I the only one here that doesn't care about the demise of the arcades? I didn't go to real arcades very often as a kid anyway. The main places to play arcade games in my small town were at the laundromat (3 video machines and 2 pinball machines), and the corner store by the red light downtown (5 to 7 video machines). There was one place that had maybe 10 arcade machines and a pool table, but it didn't last long, and there was a general store that had a room dedicated to arcade machines in the back (about 10 of them, plus a few pinball machines), but that didn't last long either. Maybe once a month I got to go to Space Port in the Bangor Mall (45 minutes away) which was a real arcade (I went there more often in the early '90s when I got my driver's license and was into SFII).

But the thing is, I never thought that having to go somewhere and pay money to play the games was ideal; I did it because it was the only way to play the games at the time. What was the big wish that was oft repeated in those days by kids? "I wish I had one of these at home."

It is similar to a movie theater. Would you ever bother going to someone else's theater; paying admission, and dealing with noisy people and sticky floors, if you owned your own theater?

So I have my own "arcade" now. Yes, it is only 4 machines, but that's more than the laundromat had back in the '80s, and almost as many as Fossa's had. Additionally, they aren't just 4 random machines, they are machines that I specifically sought out and acquired because they are favorites of mine. Even Space Port never had 4 favorites of mine simultaneously at any given time; in fact, I was lucky if they even had one favorite of mine when I went (and I stopped going completely when the SFII era died, because nothing past that point ever interested me).

So if an arcade opened up nearby, what are the odds that they would even have games that I care about? I can think of maybe 10 to 12 that I care about, and I already own 4 of them. And the games that I only have a mild interest in, I am perfectly content playing them on MAME from time to time.

The one thing I do miss about the "arcade experience" is the direct competition with other people for high score, like between Lawton Mann and me on the Super Punch-Out machine at Fossa's in '87; and of course, random human competition on SFII is fun too.

[DashRendar]

Am I the only one here that doesn't care about the demise of the arcades?

Not the only one, but in this community, you're definitely in the minority.

[MaximRecoil]

Not the only one, but in this community, you're definitely in the minority.

I wonder how many people here (especially the ones who own at least several of their own machines, and/or a MAME machine) would really frequent an arcade if one opened up locally.

[DashRendar]

Well, I think we build/restore our own because it's getting nearly impossible to go out to a real arcade.  If we didn't have our own machines, then I think we would be going to whatever arcades are still around.

[HaRuMaN]

I have my own machines, and I still enjoy going to the local arcade.

[CheffoJeffo]

Not the only one, but in this community, you're definitely in the minority.

I wonder how many people here (especially the ones who own at least several of their own machines, and/or a MAME machine) would really frequent an arcade if one opened up locally.

If it was convenient and had cool games that I liked, then yes. Otherwise, not so much, except for gatherings with other enthusiasts.

I've got 2 FECs, a movie theatre with 20 games and a Go-Kart track with about 25 games within a 10 minute drive of my house. I only go when the kids have a party at one of them or when we go to a movie.

There is an arcade museum opening up across the city and the owner has some amazing and rare classics. He's also a good guy and I really want him to succeed. I don't see myself getting out there even once a month outside of gatherings.

[IG-88]

I have my own machines, and I still enjoy going to the local arcade.

+1 on that.

I came from a small town myself and our "arcades" were local mom & pops too. What I have come to appreciate about them was that they didn't have just "favorites" or even top sellers. The limited selection at the time forced one to try different games. And more times than not I ended up loving a game that on initial inspection didn't appeal to me at all. Or when they did rotate in a new game we jumped on it immediately. Eyes and Omega Race are both games that fall under that catergory. Mouse Trap was another. Although I never could get the love for Dragons Lair.   

[RayB]

Those of you saying yes you'd frequent arcades, are you thinking you'd do so on your own, with buddies or with your kid? I bet the majority are dads and are thinking its something to do with your kid.  I'm 39 and have unhealthy obsession with the classics and am nostalgic of arcades, but if one opened up within 5 minutes distance, I might visit it twice a year with buddies and that's it, cuz really... I can get my gaming fix at home. I also have no interest in hanging out with teenagers.

I'd make an exception if the offerings were *REALLY COOL* like these:


Toronto has a realistic jet fighter simulation place open to the public, and yet I've never even been to that yet. Consider me skeptical that many of us would actually make arcade play a frequent enough activity except as something to do with your kid.
 

[DashRendar]

True.  I think that many of us that are in our mid-20s to mid-40s may pass on going to an arcade-

BUT I think that we'd still like to have them around, for the next generation of kids.

[Blanka]

It is against the MAME license, and is illegal.

Too bad the MAME license still stinks. Really time for the guys to go GPL with it. That would really help making MAME much bigger than it is today, and have more programmers join it. Think MAME as official sales for iPhones or Wiitendo's! Those big companies would arrange good ROM packages with legal licenses without any problems. Weird thing above all, is that the only one making profit from MAME are the game makers themselves, as they use MAME illegal now in their vintage PC emulation sets.

3.  I was thinking of setting up kiosks for systems like the NES, SNES, Genesis, and N64.  (Like the PS3 kiosk at Best Buy where users can play, but the system is under lock and key).  I would like to put a PC in each kiosk cabinet and emulate these systems.  Does the copyrights to these games hold true with the above? 

I think you better make some corners with the actual consoles, with original cartridges. If they are on free play, I guess there is no problem. You might only be charged for music rights (game music is music too).

[Benevolance]

One of the semi-local amusement centres has Nintendo/Xbox/PS3 pay-for-play machines. I'm not entirely certain how it works, but it is coin operated. It's attached to a timer, and will ask for additional funds as the timer runs out. When the time elapses, the system resets itself and the circle of life begins again.

Other arcades in our area previously have used a rental fee concept - they basically rented you a chair at a console for X time, and you could play whichever game you wanted on the system you chose. The consoles themselves were at a front desk nearby, so if you wanted to change games, you had to get up and ask, but it seemed straightforward. I can't say that playing consoles in the arcade is something that ever appealed to me, because I have purchased the systems for my home. And if we wanted to try a new system out for a particular game, most video game/movie places rent out the systems pretty affordably.

In spite of that, the aforementioned semi-local amusement centre seems to be doing well. But like other posters mentioned, it has diversified. It has a batting cage, soccer cage, go-karts, bumper cars, mini-golf, etc. It's been around for years and years, and is moderately busy most any night we go. It is one of the few places that still offers mini-golf, and because it bought all its machines when it opened and has maintained them well, it has an awesome collection of mid-80's and 90's video games, still playable for .25 cents in most cases.

[EightBySix]

Would be interesting to rig the cabs so that they take larger denominations to help pay the way, or maybe tokens that you can purchase.

[Benevolance]

A lot of places I've noticed moving towards the swipe card method. No more tokens or coins.

[MonMotha]

A lot of places I've noticed moving towards the swipe card method. No more tokens or coins.

People seem to spend "points" on a card with impunity whereas they are generally better at tracking expenses when using coins (cash or tokens).  The card systems also allow for "VIP clubs" and similar.  The cards also encourage people to put lots of money on the card up front (to get a better deal on the "points") which lets the establishment get cash sooner than if people buy tokens $10 at a time or just drop in quarters.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of card systems, but I like them better (as a player) than location-specific tokens that I have to cart around and remember.  Cards at least fit in my wallet.  i still prefer just using quarters or dollar coins, though.  The Japanese arcades were wonderful: just drop 50 or 100 yen coins that you probably have in your pocket, anyway.

Cover/admission also seems to be becoming popular.  I basically don't patronize such establishments.  I never, ever get my money's worth as compared to places without cover, even if the game prices are discounted.  I think that has more to do with the types of games I play than anything else, though.

[lingpanda]

Any other site besides Super Auctions in the US for Arcade auctions?

[SirPeale]

On the flip side, it is a one time expense, short of maintenance. Overhead is going to be a tough one here, since laser tag arenas have to be very large to be any fun. There is a laser tage place that opened up by where I live, and it is slow going. It doesn't even open until 2PM during the school year.

Take it from a guy that used to maintain Laser Tag equipment, though the up-front is a one time, if anything breaks on it it's an arm and a leg to get it repaired.  Even if you do the work yourself the parts cost a TON of money.  I know it's how the companies stay in business when they're not selling whole setups, but WOW.   I couldn't believe the money they were asking for really basic stuff.

[Expressline99]

I wonder how many people here (especially the ones who own at least several of their own machines, and/or a MAME machine) would really frequent an arcade if one opened up locally.

I live in a casino town...and the arcades are run by the casinos. I tried to go to one about 3 months ago and found it horribly depressing. Lights were dimmed and all machines were ticket/redemption type. Very very few actual video or pinball machines. I'd say out of 50-60 games 6 total were video or pinball.  Personally I don't like where the industry went with that. My expectation was to leave the place with a little bit of nostalgia. Instead I left within a couple of minutes pissed off and looking forward to working on my pins and MAME machine.

So if it was an actual arcade I.E. no ticket givers. I'd love to go.

[MaximRecoil]

So if it was an actual arcade I.E. no ticket givers. I'd love to go.

I'd go too, but how often? I mean, I'm not 12 years old anymore, walking past a place with arcade games on my way home from school with allowance money to spend. I certainly wouldn't go most every day like I did when I was a kid.

Now if there were games I liked (unlikely, considering I only care for a tiny percentage of the thousands of games that were made), and if there was a worthwhile social aspect to it (i.e., people from my generation, rather than a bunch of kids), then I might go somewhat regularly.

I came from a small town myself and our "arcades" were local mom & pops too. What I have come to appreciate about them was that they didn't have just "favorites" or even top sellers. The limited selection at the time forced one to try different games. And more times than not I ended up loving a game that on initial inspection didn't appeal to me at all. Or when they did rotate in a new game we jumped on it immediately. Eyes and Omega Race are both games that fall under that catergory. Mouse Trap was another. Although I never could get the love for Dragons Lair.   

What you're saying was true for me back then too. Obviously, the only way that my favorite games became favorites in the first place, was that at one point I had to play them for the first time as completely unknown games. However, there is little chance of me finding another favorite among random unknown games in this day and age, considering all the years I've had access to MAME and thousands of random unknown (to me) games. My list of favorites still mostly consists of games that became favorites when I was a kid. About the only addition that I can think of is Pengo, which I never played, saw, or even heard of as a kid. Even then, I don't put it on the same level as my childhood favorites, because there is no nostalgia associated with it for me.

[Ummon]

I've never liked Pengo much anyways. (DL I never really got a chance to like playing. But I'd watch the bastard and love it.) However, it is part of my stock in MAME. I have about 370 games, perhaps half that many I really want ta play.

As for going to an arcade, yeah I'd love to if it was stocked with games I like. (Pins count as well, but didn't till I was in high school, and then mostly I liked watching my friend.) The closest one is 120 miles, though. But even if that place were close to me, let alone if it were an all classics place, admittedly, I wouldn't go all the time. Perhaps once a month, because:

- money

- well.....that's probly mostly it. I do like sit-down cabs an all, but at least for the next year, if I had access to a large retro arcade (at least 50 machines, with at least half being ones I really like), and I could spend all the money I wanted, or if it were like Arcade84, I'd probly go once a week. Maybe more.

I think what monmotha said about card systems is correct. At C&C, I definitely go ahead and get $20 worth (= 100 credits), and after three hours still have half left. Even with playing fifty cents pins. They've made money on me every time I've gone.

[Silas (son of Silas)]

It's in this format I'm currently in talks about to create an entertainment centre/gaming museum/party venue here in the UK.

*Silas ---punks--- up his ears with interest and hopes this would be in the Midlands.....

[Franco B]

Where abouts are you in the midlands spawn of Silas ()?

You can come and put some money in my Neo Geo machine once its on location next week. 

[EightBySix]

It's in this format I'm currently in talks about to create an entertainment centre/gaming museum/party venue here in the UK.

*Silas ---punks--- up his ears with interest and hopes this would be in the Midlands.....

+1

[Franco B]

Are you in the Midlands too EightBySix? Where abouts?

[Silas (son of Silas)]

Where abouts are you in the midlands spawn of Silas ()?

You can come and put some money in my Neo Geo machine once its on location next week. 

Right now I live nr. Solihull, but planning to move more towards Warwick in the next six months. Are You in the Midlands? Whenever I have read you posts I never realised you were in the UK (or maybe I did realise but mis-filed it in my brain along with the will to finish the report I am supposed to be writing for work instead of browsing forums.)

[HaRuMaN]

Where abouts are you in the midlands spawn of Silas ()?

You can come and put some money in my Neo Geo machine once its on location next week.  

[Silas (son of Silas)]

Where abouts are you in the midlands spawn of Silas ()?

You can come and put some money in my Neo Geo machine once its on location next week.  

Its that old 'lure them back to your pad on the false hope of a game of Double Dragon' ploy 

[Franco B]

 

Nah, the cab is going on location in a Uni Bar.

Yeah I'm in the UK, not far from Lincoln, East Mids. 

[EightBySix]

Are you in the Midlands too EightBySix? Where abouts?

Near Chesterfield...

[Franco B]

Ah cool, your not far from me at all. I drove through Chesterfield last weekend on the way to Congleton to deliver a cab.

[Turnarcades]

It's in this format I'm currently in talks about to create an entertainment centre/gaming museum/party venue here in the UK.

*Silas ---punks--- up his ears with interest and hopes this would be in the Midlands.....

Well you're not going to believe your luck if this goes ahead, but right now I'm looking for investment. I'm from Wolverhampton (now live on the border of Wolves/Walsall) and basically I'm looking to create an arcade museum, entertainment centre and party venue that is essentially going to be a huge bachelor pad. It will be a 'pay on entry' venue at weekends where all pool tables, arcade machines etc. will be set on free play, but will almost exclusively be a venue to be rented out for corporate events, stag/hen parties, but I would also like to host expo type shows on a smaller scale centred around video gaming, both modern and retro. I won't go into detail about the exact layout and included features, but the good news is that I am looking to open it in the Midlands so it is both local to me and equally accessible from all corners of the country.

Dunno when this will go ahead exactly, but I'm talking with a few investors and still revising my business plan to decide if it's worth doing. To be fair, I'm only looking for marginal profit as I do with Turnarcades at the moment, as I have the luxury of no longer being the primary earner in my household since I fell ill a few years back. This would be a working hobby and hopefully I can get a lot of family to get in on it to reduce overheads.

[ChadTower]

It was asked above who would go to an arcade, with whom, and why...

There is an arcade museum/private beach 45 minutes south of me.  I take my kids there a couple of times a year and would more often if the beach part didn't make it a full day trip.

Funspot is 4-5 hours north of me.  I take my kids there a couple of times a year and we spend several hours.  If it were half the distance we would go every couple of weeks.  If it were inside an hour I'd probably have to open a monthly payment plan to them.

There is also a great traditional arcade about an hour north of me at Salem Willows Park.  Good pin lineup.  Not too many classics, though, and we never have more than a half hour when we make it there because we're always in the area to visit my wife's family.

[Gatsu]

I also once thought about opening up an arcade...especially since all the arcades in my area closed. But after contacting the owners of the establishments and talking with them about the businesses....it seemed smarter to drop the idea. They all closed for a reason. Upkeep was too costly, newer games were ridiculous to buy and upgrade, and people started complaining about the cost per play.

So I would suggest the next best thing. Take the money you planned on starting the business with and build an arcade/bar/hangout spot for yourself and your friends. Just the games you want to play, and a small bar for drinks & snack stuff with some couches a juke box and maybe a pool table. Several guys here on the forum have done this and I'm sure they are happy they did it.

As soon as I can afford a house this will definitely be in my plans. Since I can't start a business.....I'll just start my own collection.

[ark_ader]

You going to do all this in a recession, and with everyone around with consoles?   

What is wrong with opening a 80's themed restaurant and bar with a small arcade in the back?

The fun is finding all the nostalgic paraphernalia that creates the environment.

Start small in a industrial area and work up. 

[saint]

You know, Chad brings up a good point I hadn't considered. One place where an arcade might thrive is at a tourist resort spot. Thinking of the arcades I've been to recently that were fun, they were in Downtown Disney / Pleasure Island in Orlando, and at tourist getaways like Myrtle Beach or Gatlinburg. Those places were always busy.

[mvsfan]

Hi everyone.

A friend and I are looking into opening a game room/arcade.  I've been looking online for information, and have already printed out a license application.  I figured this forum would be a great place to lay some groundwork in the brainstorming phase.  

I have a few questions pertaining to how things work exactly...

1.  I won't be renting arcade cabinets, I'll have outright bought them.  Do I still need to give a percentage of my profits from the cabinets to the copyright owners?  If so, is there any way to obtain copyrights or permission to use them and keep all the coinage?    

2.  I've built a MAME cabinet before, and it is still fully functional.  For something like this, would I have to be granted permission by every game hosted on the machine to charge patrons to use it?

3.  I was thinking of setting up kiosks for systems like the NES, SNES, Genesis, and N64.  (Like the PS3 kiosk at Best Buy where users can play, but the system is under lock and key).  I would like to put a PC in each kiosk cabinet and emulate these systems.  Does the copyrights to these games hold true with the above?  

What I'm basically trying to say is ; is this doable, and is it going to cost me a bagillion dollars?

Thanks in advance for anyone with knowledge on the subject.

dude if you open an arcade nowadays, you at least need a bowling alley with pool tables, food, and a Bar.

arcades just simply cant survive on their own anymore.

you couldnt run mame commercially because it is against the liscence.

you probably could run a 100 in 1 though, but you would have to have an original board of every game on the multi present somewhere in your bowling alley, in order to do so.

[mvsfan]

heres why and another point to consider.

I used to live within walking distance of one of the biggest arcades in florida. It was called funscape and it was about the size of wal mart, and it was 2 stories.

sometime, things got expensive for them to operate compared to the money they were taking in, so they started charging 50 cents for old games and 75 cents for the newest games, and the crowd that had always been there started to die down a bit.

so a couple years later, instead of raising games another quarter, they bought the old kmart next door and built a movie theater hoping that the movie money would offset the funscape tab. It didnt. the movie theater more than made enough money for itself, but funscape just kept on getting more and more expensive to operate compared to what it brought in. so then they went up to $.75, then $1.00, then 1.50 for all games.

shortly after it went to 1.50, they shut their doors forever. they had to. for the owners however, it was a labor of love to keep it open as long as possible.

the same people still own the movie theater, and they did manage to move a small chunk, about 20 or 30 of their machines into it. but at one point they had hundreds of machines.

[SirPeale]

Funspot is 4-5 hours north of me.  I take my kids there a couple of times a year and we spend several hours.  If it were half the distance we would go every couple of weeks.  If it were inside an hour I'd probably have to open a monthly payment plan to them.

4-5 HOURS?  You live closer than I do, and it takes us about two hours!

[Ummon]

Dude, yer gonna kill me with those kitties!  Love love love love love!

Its that old 'lure them back to your pad on the false hope of a game of Double Dragon' ploy 

Oh no, it's the villianous tie you up and have to watch Double Dragon be played for days! Then let you go, on your wasted way.


Um, I think this has been mentioned before: couldn't you do a restaurant/whatever thingie (maybe that had some cover for alcohol or something, like a dollar or two), and have a bunch of MAME cabs with no coin mechs/money/credit machines. People could just play 'em. How much up-keep, then?

There is an arcade museum/private beach 45 minutes south of me.  I take my kids there a couple of times a year and would more often if the beach part didn't make it a full day trip.

??  What does the beach have to do with it? If anything, just don't go on it.

[clok]

late to this party. Freind opened an Arcade in a small Midwestern town (pop 23,000) aprox 4 years ago. Post Office got a new building and he got great rent on the old Post Office. Great location, great parking, etc. Even got City to cut him a deal as it was a YOUTH activity. it actually went over very well, lots of business. Finacially it worked out great. But the one thing nobody saw comming (but should have) was the clients. Kids nowdays cant cunduct themsleves around others there age group. They simply could not act like normal people. there where fights non stop, smoking in a non smokeing building, machines where abused consistantly. he had kids breaking Plexi on the front of machines for "fun". I personally watched a male try and break a joystick, he was actually totally supported buy it, both feet on front of cab yanking. the first thing that was tried was a rules list. If you where breaking any rules, you where out. Great idea.... he had  a  single person there at all times, change, and a small ara with some tables and vending machines and hot dog makler and a pizza oven. When started he had a 22 year old girl, lets just say nobody listened to her, we where there to observe how well the kids acted. No fualt of the 22 year old girls she was fine, its just kids dont listen. We then tried haveing an adualt Male (34 i beileve) and big (yes he purposly picked a big guy), this worked sorta, they listend a tiny bit better, and he removed a grand total of 2 male boys.. BOY DID THAT BACKFIRE.. the kids where cronic troublemakers (on video even) in the arcade. Both where removed by physicly removeing them as they wouldnt leave when asked. niether where harmed in any way ( was specific about that with guy who removed them). Parents of said children where Up in arms, local police came and viewed tapes, city council had meeting, etc.. We where told we where correct, nothing done wrong.  2 boys whre told they could not enter the place by police. Guess what, in arcade less then 2 days later (nobody watchs door, sorry its not a prison. Police where simply called and both boys removed. Well after doing this 5-6 times in a few weeks the police where getting pretty bored with the whole deal (um, my question, charge them with something maybe? but they didnt do anything but remove them). So about this time it was turning into "arcade is to much trouble" for the police and city. Mostly becuase of 2 boys. Dont get me wrong, about 25% of them i wouldnt let near me or anybody else if i had any say. so instead of actually dealing with Kids who cant follow rules (isnt that the Police's job?) the city just Changed his rent (it was raised almost 400%). My friend ( i had helped him with some of the setup and so on) decided it was just far more BS then it was worth.

My friend is not a games person, he was looking for a legit way to make a small dime ( he idd have other jobs, this was an attempt at somthing new, he didnt think it was going to make him rich, just maybe make hims some coin. he also had some thouhgt it would be something for the kids.

So it seems, at least around here, Arcades as i remeber them are not possible..

sorry for the long story. its a bit negative, I do not think it would be the case everywhere, but maybe my age has made me a bit jaded.. Kids nowdays seems to really not give a crap out anybody but htemsleves (some of them at least)..

[ChadTower]

4-5 HOURS?  You live closer than I do, and it takes us about two hours!

You know what, you're right.  We tend to hit Funspot on our way up to the White Mountains area so I'd forgotten the exact point where we get to Funspot.  Mapquest puts it at 2.5 hours.  The whole drive to where we are going is 4 hours, I guess.

And for Ummon... when you have a family you don't get to drive 45 minutes and not stay at the beach.

[EightBySix]

I suspect the market is for 30-40 something men (most of us, I'll bet!).
I have a friend who's wife works on Saturdays. He gets together with a friend who is in the same situation at an indoor soft play venue - they turn the kids loose and have breakfast/read the paper.
Perhaps places like that would be a good pitch - all the kids are accompanied by adults who would have misspent their younger days at arcades....
I'm taking my son there this w/e for a party. If they had galaxians etc there, I would certainly feed it some coins. I bet you would get the "come here boy, and see what real video games were like" factor....

<edit>
Or even in women's clothes shops - by the men waiting patiently near the changing rooms. you could even mod the cabs with a button that says 'That looks lovely, dear' 

[wp34]

But the one thing nobody saw comming (but should have) was the clients. Kids nowdays cant cunduct themsleves around others there age group. They simply could not act like normal people. there where fights non stop, smoking in a non smokeing building, machines where abused consistantly. he had kids breaking Plexi on the front of machines for "fun".

This is the same reason our last arcade closed a couple of years ago.  Too many troublemakers.

[Blanka]

Kids nowdays cant cunduct themsleves around others there age group. They simply could not act like normal people.

More important: kids dont understand joysticks. They know touch screens, gamepads, even wiimotes, but no joysticks. If you see kids playing on them, it's like they have brain-hand-coordination malfunction.

[mvsfan]

late to this party. Freind opened an Arcade in a small Midwestern town (pop 23,000) aprox 4 years ago. Post Office got a new building and he got great rent on the old Post Office. Great location, great parking, etc. Even got City to cut him a deal as it was a YOUTH activity. it actually went over very well, lots of business. Finacially it worked out great. But the one thing nobody saw comming (but should have) was the clients. Kids nowdays cant cunduct themsleves around others there age group. They simply could not act like normal people. there where fights non stop, smoking in a non smokeing building, machines where abused consistantly. he had kids breaking Plexi on the front of machines for "fun". I personally watched a male try and break a joystick, he was actually totally supported buy it, both feet on front of cab yanking. the first thing that was tried was a rules list. If you where breaking any rules, you where out. Great idea.... he had  a  single person there at all times, change, and a small ara with some tables and vending machines and hot dog makler and a pizza oven. When started he had a 22 year old girl, lets just say nobody listened to her, we where there to observe how well the kids acted. No fualt of the 22 year old girls she was fine, its just kids dont listen. We then tried haveing an adualt Male (34 i beileve) and big (yes he purposly picked a big guy), this worked sorta, they listend a tiny bit better, and he removed a grand total of 2 male boys.. BOY DID THAT BACKFIRE.. the kids where cronic troublemakers (on video even) in the arcade. Both where removed by physicly removeing them as they wouldnt leave when asked. niether where harmed in any way ( was specific about that with guy who removed them). Parents of said children where Up in arms, local police came and viewed tapes, city council had meeting, etc.. We where told we where correct, nothing done wrong.  2 boys whre told they could not enter the place by police. Guess what, in arcade less then 2 days later (nobody watchs door, sorry its not a prison. Police where simply called and both boys removed. Well after doing this 5-6 times in a few weeks the police where getting pretty bored with the whole deal (um, my question, charge them with something maybe? but they didnt do anything but remove them). So about this time it was turning into "arcade is to much trouble" for the police and city. Mostly becuase of 2 boys. Dont get me wrong, about 25% of them i wouldnt let near me or anybody else if i had any say. so instead of actually dealing with Kids who cant follow rules (isnt that the Police's job?) the city just Changed his rent (it was raised almost 400%). My friend ( i had helped him with some of the setup and so on) decided it was just far more BS then it was worth.

My friend is not a games person, he was looking for a legit way to make a small dime ( he idd have other jobs, this was an attempt at somthing new, he didnt think it was going to make him rich, just maybe make hims some coin. he also had some thouhgt it would be something for the kids.

So it seems, at least around here, Arcades as i remeber them are not possible..

sorry for the long story. its a bit negative, I do not think it would be the case everywhere, but maybe my age has made me a bit jaded.. Kids nowdays seems to really not give a crap out anybody but htemsleves (some of them at least)..

this absolutely reminds me of where you are from. I grew up in the big city and i do remember arcades being rowdy places. yes, kids did punch glass, etc when they lost and no they wouldnt listen at all.

The funny thing is this. i remember almost everyone thinking that the glass on top of the monitors were plexiglass so nobody actually thought they could get hurt and thus, the assholish attitudes.

i never believed it until i bought my first cabinet, that those idiots were in fact punching real glass that could have shattered with each whack.

[Ummon]

clok: give them rednecks virtual access to the world, and they just don't know how to deal with it, huh? They used to be such good christian folk, alas.

[danny_galaga]

Katuuuz, I haven't read the whole thread yet, but i think a really easy in for you is something you've already mentioned- Get a couple of machines in your barber shop. You already pay rent, and you don't have to share the profit with anyone. Do that and then you can gauge how you would fair

[katuuuz]

Well I figured I'd let this pan out a bit and then come back and read it once everyone got their 2 cents in.  (Thanks to everyone for that).  I could throw a machine or two tops in the barber shop, but it is a small shop, and it wouldn't really be profitable.  (Would be nice to play some games during slow times though)).

I agree with kids being assholish.  Ever since people weren't allowed to beat their kids, children progressively got more and more disrespectful lol.  Even my generation starting out in the early 80s had it's fair share of assholey envelope pushers.  My friend's cousin lit a joint in a bowling alley when we were about 14 and I was scared S-less.  Today, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary.  Basically, nowadays, forget it.  I'd wager 7 out of 10 kids under 15 years old today are problems.  No respect for other people's property, or other people in general.  When the kiddies walk by the barber shop on Main St. after school, I see the poor quality of American children first-hand.  More or less, if I invest my money into classic arcade games, I'll be damned if a 13 year old punk is going to punch it or try to snap a joystick off of it.  Then I'd be going to jail for kicking him in his face. 

Now, that said, why can't an adult-themed retro barcade make it?  Granted we are in an economical crisis.  I purchased a Double Dragon upright which will be in my basement this Tuesday.  This is cabinet number one.  By the time I buy/restore enough cabs, the doors of this presumed barcade won't open for 3 - 5 years from now or maybe more.  If I were to manage/maintain the machines myself, it couldn't be too costly.  Arcade parts are all over Ebay for cheap enough.  Full-length bar, maybe 20-40 CLASSIC arcade machiens.  No Dance Dance Revoloution, or Tekken 12.  I'm talking about DK, Frogger, Tempest, Gauntlet, Tron, Double Dragon all the way up to the early 90s like Golden Axe II and Mortal Kombat.  Ages would be 21 and up.  Kids under 18 are practically untouchable by the law, adults have a lot more to lose.  Sure there will be a few fights here and there, and some asses, but what bar in your town now doesn't put up with that already?

If done right, and styled/themed correctly, I think it could be big.  Profitable enough to pay for itself at least, if not make some ching along with it.  Sure you can sit home and play your Mame machines, and a bunch of you have your own home arcades, but I'd say the majority do not.  Plus as an example, I personally would rather play a game of Double Dragon on an orignal dedicated Double Dragon cabinet - not a 10,000 game generic arcade cabinet, or a converted q*bert cabinet turned mame machine.  Nostalgia will be the hook.

Just a few ideas I'm tossing around that have no place even being thought of this early in progress... promotions on top score holders on specific games.  I.E.  Top score holder on the Galaga machine for the month of February gets a $50 voucher.  Each pitcher of beer comes with 2 quarters... tons of possibilities.         

[nox771]

IMO, dedicated arcades were killed by Nintendo, Sony, and the day PC games got to be better quality than the arcade ones.  Your comment gave me an idea for you though:

I could throw a machine or two tops in the barber shop, but it is a small shop, and it wouldn't really be profitable.  (Would be nice to play some games during slow times though)).

Just an idea, but even with one or two cabs you can give people incentive to play - simply tell them if they beat the high score they get a free haircut.  Let the score accumulate over a week, and reset the high score on your slow day (maybe more people will come in to try...), or just reset it once a month (or never, whatever works for you).  Of course if you are good at the game yourself you can reset the score and play it once to set a target over the default.  If you have multiple machines in storage just put one in the shop and rotate it with another when you get bored with it.   Just an idea...

[katuuuz]

If you have multiple machines in storage just put one in the shop and rotate it with another when you get bored with it.   Just an idea...

Yeah, I guess if all else fails, I can do this.

[IG-88]

Just a few ideas I'm tossing around that have no place even being thought of this early in progress... promotions on top score holders on specific games.  I.E.  Top score holder on the Galaga machine for the month of February gets a $50 voucher.  Each pitcher of beer comes with 2 quarters... tons of possibilities.         

See, now you're talking!