26" LCD MONITOR!!!

[thatitalian]

Is this a 4:3 LCD?

If it is, it is being ordered!

[Franco B]

Looks to be 4:3. I couldn't seem to see any details for it though.

Still prefer my shiney new Sanwa PFX 29" tri sync though 

[thatitalian]

How much did that set you back?

[Franco B]

They were on sale from Sega UK in Surrey at £495+VAT which totalled about £560. I think they are back up to £650-700+VAT now.

They are CRTs rather than TFTs though so may be no good if you want a slim cab. They are the dogs danglies though

[HaRuMaN]

They are the dogs danglies though

That's twice you've said that, now...  I'm starting to worry about you...   

[Franco B]

Just did a search and its more like four 

Anyway.... back OT 

[Turnarcades]

So what these 26" LCD's running at, cost wise?

[bkenobi]

What's the resolution on these?  If they are at least 1024x768, that would be nice.  As big as they are, I would imagine they might be rather pixelated if they weren't higher resolution than SDTV.

[Franco B]

Sega Naomi monitors are 29" 31Khz 640x480 and they are not pixelated in the slightest, they look fantastic in fact.

[bkenobi]

Interesting.  I guess I haven't seen an LCD that big and low resolution.  I know TV's of that size (or any size) running SDTV resolutions look pretty bad when displaying the Windows desktop, but maybe that's primarily based on the bleed between pixels.  This would make for an interesting option going forward!  Anyone get a quote?

[Franco B]

The monitors I am talking about are CRTs, I don't know if that makes a difference.

[Bluepoint]

Guessing it's the WGF2679-SSAS25H:

http://www.wellsgardner.com/products/details.asp?iCat=1&iSubCat=5

If so, it's widescreen. Who the hell knows how that's supposed to work replacing the 4:3 original...

Quote:

"The 26" Replacement Kit is designed to replace 25" CRT monitors used in the widely popular Cruis'n franchise (USA/World/Exotica) sit-down games, as well as the sit-down versions of Off Road Thunder and California Speed. The 26" premium widescreen LCD monitor provides a stunning new look to these games. Provided bracket and bezel, in addition to CGA to VGA capability, makes this kit a very practical replacement choice as well as a stylish upgrade to these popular sit-down games."

[thatitalian]

That is why I thought it was 4:3!

[bkenobi]

Apparently that bezel will be pretty large then?   

[Turnarcades]

Guessing it's the WGF2679-SSAS25H:

http://www.wellsgardner.com/products/details.asp?iCat=1&iSubCat=5

If so, it's widescreen. Who the hell knows how that's supposed to work replacing the 4:3 original...

Quote:

"The 26" Replacement Kit is designed to replace 25" CRT monitors used in the widely popular Cruis'n franchise (USA/World/Exotica) sit-down games, as well as the sit-down versions of Off Road Thunder and California Speed. The 26" premium widescreen LCD monitor provides a stunning new look to these games. Provided bracket and bezel, in addition to CGA to VGA capability, makes this kit a very practical replacement choice as well as a stylish upgrade to these popular sit-down games."

I just read this after looking at the WG site for a different reason. Looks to cost a packet either way, so I wouldn't bother pursuing this.

[Blanka]

What really bothers me is that these Wells Garders and co are still in the CRT era with their specs.

With LCD we want to know these things:

• Panel type: S-PVA/S-IPS/TN
• Resolution: 1024x768 interpolates different as 1600x1200
• Input lag: the CRT's gave an istant image, a 26 inch TN screen is much slower (it is a myth that TN is superfast. This seems to apply only on sub-23 inch screens), and probably even worse with CGA conversion logic.
• Static contrast ratio: with LCD backlight can really hinder compared to CRT, so 1:1000 static is a minimum to begin with

[thatitalian]

I might drop them a mail just to see cost and to ask for more specs.

[Ummon]

Sega Naomi monitors are 29" 31Khz 640x480 and they are not pixelated in the slightest, they look fantastic in fact.

Well, this ain't entirely so. You can see the shadow mask elements, which limits the fine-ness, even on my (I think) .68mm dot pitch Billabs capable of XGA. If you aren't viewing dim or/and high-res photos, you're okay.

[mvsfan]

It always really just comes down to this. Any fan of an old analog game console system or an arcade game is just running into a brick wall lately unless the only thing they care about is running xbox or xbox 360, etc. If you want to run a recent digital capable console or complete arcade board system enclosed in a big box called a cabinet with good results, you are in fact a prime candidate for a caseless, frameless all digital flat screen like the ones being sold by happ.

If not, and you are interested in playing tons of classics, anybody in the know will almost always direct you to, and reccomend a hybrid 25, or 27" crt for your project.

these beasts generally support the lowest and least best windows display, as well as being able to display everything released up until 1995 in their native resolutions with no flicker or incompatibility or other distortions.

In fact, I myself replaced (and ended up putting it back into place)  A 40" Crt analog Tv, only reason being that the new 720 P digital Tv was incomatible with my 2600 and my Nes, even though it supposedly had the inputs for them. What i did do instead of taking it back was to hook it up to my computer and give me a giant screen.

It worked great for windows but absolutely refused to acknowledge any lower resolutions besides what Mame would give it.

So after i waited and i couldnt take it back, i just shelved the whole mess and bought myself a true pc monitor, a 28" samsung that was capable of displaying almost any resolution, and ive run with that since.

Anyone in the know will simply tell you dont ever buy a 720p, or a 1080 I, if you plan on hooking a Nes or snes up to it.

[TOK]

mvsfan, would you mind saying what kind of TV wouldn't display your NES?
This was using a composite input?

The reason I ask is that I have a 52" Sony LCD, and although I've never tried hooking an older console up to it, we have hooked up a couple of games for my kid... One is a dancemat thing, the other is a Sesame Street bongo game.

They are both very low resolution, in fact I thought these might be based on those Nintendo-on-a-chip type all in one games and they displayed fine. Ugly graphics, but no issues with the TV putting them up there.

[rlemmon]

happ has them along with there lcd bezel and Mounting Kit


http://happ.com/monitors/49286100.htm

[nox771]

Ah, the Happ manual gives some key specs - MVA panel, 1366x768 max resolution, 16:9 aspect.  It's not explicitly said, but it looks like on those "upgrades" the image is just stretched to fit the 16:9 aspect, is that right?!?

[Blanka]

MVA is good. Those displays are pretty fast, good viewing angles and decent blacks.

[ahofle]

mvsfan, would you mind saying what kind of TV wouldn't display your NES?
This was using a composite input?

The reason I ask is that I have a 52" Sony LCD, and although I've never tried hooking an older console up to it, we have hooked up a couple of games for my kid... One is a dancemat thing, the other is a Sesame Street bongo game.

They are both very low resolution, in fact I thought these might be based on those Nintendo-on-a-chip type all in one games and they displayed fine. Ugly graphics, but no issues with the TV putting them up there.

Older US consoles pretty much all output 480i over composite, regardless of the actual resolution of the graphics.  Not sure why any TV would not support that.

[ChadTower]

Older US consoles pretty much all output 480i over composite, regardless of the actual resolution of the graphics.  Not sure why any TV would not support that.

Component?

[ahofle]

I've never heard of component output on 2600 or NES. Is there?

[ChadTower]

No, but there wasn't composite out on the 2600 either.  Not directly, anyway.

[ahofle]

True...RF to composite, but still...480i.  Why did you say component? 
I was just surprised to hear of a newer TV that didn't support a 480i signal.

[ChadTower]

True...RF to composite, but still...480i.  Why did you say component?  
I was just surprised to hear of a newer TV that didn't support a 480i signal.

Because 480i is usually sent via the component cables when they are present.  Is 480i over composite even possible?  I thought it required the three separate cables.

EDIT:  Linkage

Couldn't remember why so I looked that up.  Definitely not 480i over composite as the 480i standard requires separate signals for blue luma, red luma, and chroma - the three cables in a "component" connection.  Why not green luma too?  Got me on that one.   

[ahofle]

480p requires it, but 480i can be composite/component/etc.  For example, the crappy composite connector that comes with the Wii only supports 480i output -- you need the component adapter to do 480p.

[ChadTower]

Hrm.  So much grey area, so many standards.  So much info out there and probably half of it is actually correct.  It doesn't help that half the display decoders at this point fake it all anyway and convert it to whatever native format is or whatever the user sets the display to force.   

[orion]

Older US consoles pretty much all output 480i over composite, regardless of the actual resolution of the graphics.  Not sure why any TV would not support that.

I have never heard of such a thing either, though just this past Saturday I was looking at some 42 inch LCD's to replace a broken 32 inch we own, and it seems that some of the manufactures are doing away with including the svid and composite inputs, and loading them down with a ton of HDMI inputs. Some didn't have a single composite input, and more strangely some didn't even have a single Svideo input. I guess it won't be long till every new set will need an upcoverter to hook up older technology to it. They aren't to expensive and would probably help the PQ anyway.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&N=0&Q=&Ntt=composite%20upconverter&A=endecaSearch

[DillonFoulds]

I, too, have purchased a house brand 720p lcd panel, that couldn't process my NES properly. After digging in to it a bit, my best guess was the NES runs natively at 256x240, rather than a proper 480i signal. I mean specifically 480i, not 480p. 480i is the signal most commonly used with composite (yellow) cables, although it can typically carry any signal up to a 640x480, or so I've heard. 480p is the "high def" signal produced through Component (Red, Green, Blue) cables.

So MVSFan, you're not entirely crazy, I too have bought a cheapo LCD that won't display the signal from my NES. All I got was an "Input Not Supported".

[ahofle]

Interesting....was that with a regular composite cable like this: http://www.nintendorepairshop.com/shopexd.asp?id=184
Or are you using an RF connection (like this: http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=211447460&listingid=46445240)
Using google I do see quite a few posts about people having problems with hooking up NES/SNES to their HDTVs.  That sucks.

[Blanka]

On LCD/Plasma HDTV's: emulate the old consoles, and if you insist, hook up the original controllers with a USB adapter.
Wanna use the real hardware: buy an old TV. Better pic, lower electricity bill and lightguns work.

[Ummon]

MVA is good. Those displays are pretty fast, good viewing angles and decent blacks.

Well...I'm waiting for the mature LED backlit LCDs to be affordable. If OLEDs or something doesn't emerge first.

[Donovan19]

Is 26 inch Samasung lcd monitor avaliable in india ?
I want to purchase a 24\26 inch LCD monitor. I am looking for Samsung or Viewsonic monitor.

[Blanka]

Well...I'm waiting for the mature LED backlit LCDs to be affordable. If OLEDs or something doesn't emerge first.

Well, LED backlights are nothing more then buzz, except when they use RGB leds. RGB leds are only used for top-graphic panels from Eizo, Nec, Samsung, LG, or for the higher quality TV's nowadays.
White-led is just OK. Wide gamut CCFL is much brighter and delivers way more colours than white LED.

OLED is the promise that will never mature I guess. The "organic" part of it is synonymous for fast aging. I would say, go for NOLED!

[TOK]

Had to confirm what I suspected. NES works fine on my TV. This isn't even using composite input, its using the old coax switch that goes between the incoming antenna line and TV. This is like the worst possible input, and the games still looked pretty good.

I didn't tweak sharpness or anything on the antenna input of the TV, so I'm sure I could have improved it.

This is a 1080P 52" Sony. I'm amazed that some 720P TV's are incapable of displaying this stuff.

[ChadTower]

Emulating the NES is a losing battle.  It's just not much fun to press the button and watch Mario jump a second later and it's just not worth spending a ton on a PC powerful enough to overcome that.

[bkenobi]

Emulating the NES is a losing battle.  It's just not much fun to press the button and watch Mario jump a second later and it's just not worth spending a ton on a PC powerful enough to overcome that.

I haven't played that much NES on my cab, but SNES plays fine.  I've played plenty of Mario Kart 64 and that seems perfectly playable as well.  What's wrong with NES emulation?  Maybe I need to fire up some Mario Brothers this evening!   

[ChadTower]

Fire up Punchout.  The NES has some games that really require hardware speed.

[DillonFoulds]

As to the whole 720p LCD vs NES debate, i can say i was using composite out rather than RF, so maybe that contributes something? I didn't end up testing out RF, i couldn't find any adapters, and i had plenty of composite/coaxial (not RF) cabling handy.

I'm not experienced with reading schematics beyond an LED/resistor circuit, but judging by THIS schematic, there looks to be some post-processing between the Video Line Level Out (RCA) and the Video RF out, before the RF Out RCA/TV Passthrough adapter.

Maybe it's nothing, and the house brand TV i bought really was crap. Just trying to help shed some light.

[Loafmeister]

Fire up Punchout.  The NES has some games that really require hardware speed.

What do you consider as "hardware speed"?  I'm not trying to be funny, when talking about old console emulation, it seems some consider a 500 mhz pc as blazingly fast while others might consider a 3ghz single core "underpowered".

I don't recall any input delay when I used to play NES games on my 500mhz pc but that's a while back, so my memory might be messed up. 

[ChadTower]

I'm talking about the difference between electrons to a processor and electrons to a processor which must then translate the opcodes from the emulated processor into its own opcodes and then execute them.  95% of the time the difference is going to be imperceptible.  Some games, though, are close enough that it does make a difference if you're good enough at them.  Punchout on the NES is usually the best example of this.  I know several people who can beat it on the original hardware.  None of them can beat it on an emulator - the timing just isn't close enough.