First-Time Project Dreamer Seeking A Few Answers.

[DJTommyTheCat]

I'm a long-time reader of the forums here, and fortune has it that I should actually be able to afford a cabinet of my own by this coming summer.  As such, I'd like to first say hullo to the entire board, and thank you lads and lasses for what you do and the help you give!  I have a few questions, so I thought I'd give a go putting them out there.

Firstly, are there any opinions on saving money buying an empty cab on Ebay versus building one from scratch?  I can't check Craigslist just yet as I'll almost definitely be moving by summer and I'm not sure just where yet.  Ebay seems to have a few empty cabs for around 150 dollars shipped, and I know a few sheets of MDF will run me around 80 dollars, but I'm obviously not taking into account cross-pieces and so forth that I'd need to build a cab from scratch.  Has anyone got experience with this?  I'd love to get this first 2-player cab finished for under 1,800 USD (including whatever computer I put in) and I'm not sure which method would be the best.  Keep in mind I'm an absolute beginner.

For my buttons, I know I want lighting and have decided to go with the LED-Wiz for my first cab.  I want to learn 'proper' LED wiring, for a future cab, but I know the Wiz both lessens the difficulty of the wiring and adds options for lighting patterns and colours if I choose the RGB Drive boards for my pushbuttons.  My question has to do with which LED-Wiz related option people seem to like best, the RGB Drive, or the more expencive NovaGem buttons.  With 7 player buttons per stick, then a credit and start button for each player, plus three pinball buttons, I wouldn't likely break the budget if I went NovaGem instead of RGB, but I'm looking for a couple mini-reviews on either or to help me decide.

Whilst I'm on the button subject, may I use the RGB Drive boards with 'standard' translucent buttons and still get an attractive light from them?  Or does most of the light get absorbed this way?  Buttons will be among the single greatest expence for my project already, I'm just looking for what options I might have whilst maintaining a nice look.

From the math I've run just generally on what I know I'll need, I -should- be able to get everything in under 1,800.  I have to buy a router, jig saw, drill, sander, and circular saw, which add about 370 dollars.  I do realise that if I choose a prefabricated empty cab, I won't need the saws, but then I save cash with sheets of wood over the empty cab anyway.

I'm rather just feeling out the situation with my first post here.  If anyone has money-saving tips I haven't thought of, I'm all ears.  I appreciate any help I get here or will ever get, thank all of you!

Cheers.

[Endaar]

Welcome to the boards and an absurdly expensive hobby.

Here are some pictures of the Electric Ice buttons (which I think are what you're referring to as RGB Drive) alongside the clear Novagems, also with the RGB Drive modules. You can use either the RGB modules or any single color LED in either button.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=90562.0

I really like the flexibilty of having RGB buttons, regardless of which button type you choose. Keep in mind however that RGB requires three inputs on the LED-Wiz per button. For what you describe, you will need 2 or 3 LED-Wiz boards if you go with RGB.

Endaar

[DJTommyTheCat]

Bloody _wow._ That's the only thing I can say to those amazing comparison photos.  I don't care that they're about twice as expencive as the Electric Ice buttons.. NovaGem is the way to go.  Those look so much better it's shocking.

Actually checking Groovy's website, my buttons run about 25 dollars more for a 2-player panel than if I went with the Electric Ice.  I can live with that. ^.^  I'm -assuming- the Novas come fitted with LEDs, from looking at the product page.

Thanks for the reply mate.  I look forward to starting and indeed learning more.  Still hoping for a few replies on building a cab versus buying an empty one too.

Cheers.

[Neverending Project]

Welcome aboard. It's a great hobby to get in to, and I'll bet that before long you will be in a way different position than you thought you would be.

About the cab - I would say that Craigslist is definitely the way to go. If you can wait until you move, check once you get there. If you can't wait, you may want to consider moving the cabinet with your stuff. If you're looking to save money, don't plan on buying a cabinet off of ebay and have it shipped. You should be able t find some great looking empty cabinets on Craigslist for free, or $50-$100.

Building a cabinet can be fun, but it will definitely take a long time. It may take weeks or months, depending on how much time you have to throw into it. It may be enjoyable or frustrating, depending on your woodworking skills and patience. In the end, you will put way more than $80 into a build-it-yourself cab when you consider all the 1-by lumber, 2-by lumber, hinges, screws, glue, brackets, glass, lights, tools, you name it.

If you really want to maximize your money and time, wait to find a cabinet on CL or eBay that is in good physical shape, and one that you like the look. If you really enjoy designing, planning and working on projects, go for the build-it-yourself.

Either way, there are plenty of bright folks here to help you on your journey. Don't stop, believin'. Oops, sorry, that last bit just slipped out.

[DJTommyTheCat]

So that's at least one vote for the pre-made cabinet.  I've been thinking about the ancillary costs I'd save, like the plexi over the monitor as you said, coin door and mechanism would also likely be included.  I'm leaning towards looking for a 2-player empty cab to buy for my first project, then go to the all-on-my-own side of things for a 4-player.  That way the only thing I really have to 'build' would be a control panel since I want the 7 buttons per player configuration, and P1/P2 start and two credit buttons.

I've looked at overlay and side art and marquees, researched buttons and sticks.. oh, as I'm going with the U360s, can I simply use one I-Pac2 to wire the credit and start pushbuttons to?  Even if I build a 4 player panel in the future?  I know the 360s support 8 buttons each.  And if someone could fill me in on the differences I'll get out of a 'regular' arcade spinner and a push/pull spinner, I'd be pleased.  The push/pull spinner is a good bit pricier, but it's quite lovely..

Oh, and.. if I go with the empty cab, what are some decent ways to remove old T-Molding and side art/paint?

Cheers.

[RayB]

+1 for pre-made.

Get one that matches your needs. "empty" can be had for dirt cheap. With working monitor, is possible for dirt cheap. You get a shell, glass, controls, coin door, marquee lighting etc.... and tons of time saved. No need for most of those tools either.

[DJTommyTheCat]

I've decided to continue planning for the empty cab purchase and put my own panel on it, which, due to hardware shops willing to make cuts on a large piece for 50 cents per, would eliminate the need for me to purchase a circular saw at the very very least.  Actually the jig saw is out too, as long as my first panel doesn't use any fancy curves (I don't plan for it to do.) I'm still not sure if I need a router.  Will I get away with the power drill and bit sets (regular and forstner) just for doing the control holes?  Well, and the hole saw for the trackball.  I know people fancy routers for a lot of things, and I will definitely need something to put neat, clean holes in my plexi CP top, can I do -that- with a drill?  I can have a router for about 100 dollars, so it's not exactly a budget murderer, but hey, if I can get away without it to start..

What games use a 'push/pull' action for a spinner?  Is this simply an additional button input in an emulator like MAME?  I don't notice the feature being touted on the TurboTwist 2 spinner, so is it something that isn't necessary?  Has anyone used the push-pull feature to be able to say it's vital or just right nice to have?

Finally (for now anyway,) just how simplified does an LED-Wiz make my planned lighting setup?  Someone said I should keep in mind that a single Wiz will only cover me for 16 light placements, so I'd be purchasing two, and that's okay, but will I still need to solder ground and 5-volt to a PC molex, or will all my RGB Drive leads just run to the Wiz(es) and those to USB?  I'm further assuming I'd be using the RGB Drive LED boards in the NovaGem buttons I plan to purchase.. or do Novas come -with- LEDs?  The entire lighting thing is one of the most confusing aspects of this project for me.

Cheers!

[Turnarcades]

If you go for a gutted cab over scratch-built, there are tons of bargains - just be sure you ask the important question if they have water damage. Scratches are superficial and chips can be filled quite easily, but water damage is unusually common (were all US arcades built in puddles?) and very difficult to work with - ruining a good cab beyond repair in most instances. You will spot water damage a mile off as there will be a horrid smell, lots of unusual-coloured mould and the cab-killing moisture absorbtion - this will rise and you will see the very fabric of the wood swell and break down over time.

[Endaar]

The NovaGems come with SINGLE color LEDs. If you want the RGB drive boards, you will either need to order them separately or speak to Randy to see if he can bundle them how you want. If you order them separately, bear in mind the NovaGems will have the single-color LEDs hot-glued on. It's not a problem at all to remove them, though.

One LED-Wiz board will support *10* RGB LEDs plus two single-color LEDs.

The general consensus seems to be you need to feed the LED-Wiz 5v, but I didn't. I have a powered USB hub with three LED-Wizs, a U-Trak, a Turbo-Twist spinner, an IPAC-4 and a U360 all connected. Everything works fine and the LEDs are as bright as they should be - I tested.

Endaar

[DillonFoulds]

More importantly, and this is coming from a newb to this hobby as well, is to NETWORK. Talk to as many people in the area as you can, and get as many numbers as you can. There's a huge network of guys in to trading, collecting, restoring cabs everywhere, you just gotta network.

I haven't seen any cabs in my area for under 2000, literally. On CL, Ebay, Kijiji, anywhere! To get my hands on my first cab, i phoned everything remotely vending related within 100 miles. From there i found a guy that runs an arcade company on the side, he gave me the number for his electronics tech, who gave me the number for a guy i'll be picking a cocktail up off for a tenth of the price i'd find in the papers.

NETWORK! Talk to as many people as you can, and you'll find way better deals and enthusiasts than you'll find on the internet. No offense guys! i mean CL, Ebay, etc.