A Closer Look At The AimTrak (with video goodness)

[Neverending Project]

I made a few videos with hopes to show everyone what the device is like in real use. I should give a little background information on my setup, so you can compare if you need. My AimTrak is installed in an Act Labs gun, with the camera PCB right at the tip of the gun barrel. My screen is a 29" VGA monitor (running at 800x600) in a stand-up arcade cabinet, and the LED board is mounted in the cardboard bezel an inch or two above the top edge of the screen. For normal lightgun use, I would stand about 5 feet back from the screen. I am running Windows XP x64, SP2.

Here is a short description of the videos:
Chapter 1: Software
This is a quick look at my test rig and the configuration utility that Ultimarc provides, with a focus on how to change the button assignments of the AimTrak. In reality, I needed to set these, so I thought I would capture it on video.


Chapter 2: Calibration
This video shows the calibration routine, preformed in Windows at the desktop with no other software running. My goal here is to show the simple process of calibrating the AimTrak. You will need a cursor visible (which excludes calibrating with MAME on pause, or in a front-end unless it has been modified) and if you have the AimTrak buttons set to Mouse buttons, this may click your desktop while you are calibrating.


Chapter 3: Accuracy
In this video I take a look at moving around after the gun has been calibrated at the center of the screen, but without re-calibrating in each position. I take a look at how the calibration (and hence, accuracy) changes as the gun changes positions.


I hope this helps. Let me know if there are other things you want to see.

[ammitz]

 
Great videos, specially video nr 3!

Looking forward to the sequels

[Xiaou2]

Thanks for the Vids.

 Very sorry to see... but not surprised...  that the accuracy is poor.
Basically, you can shoot most things in the center fine.  But anything on the edges
and you will be off Over an entire CM!  Heck, I think I saw over an inch off in the vids.
   
 Sorry.. but thats just unacceptable to me. I actually like to do well in the games I play.

[RandyT]

This is an opinion based on what you are showing in your videos.  I don't have one of these (yet), so your videos (and Syph's) are what I am commenting upon.

I'm impressed with the great job you did on these!  My only criticism is that you tend to use the phrase "a liiiittle bit" where I would probably find "a country mile" to be more appropriate .  To each his own.

On the bright side, it looks to be very accurate at the center and top center, which is encouraging, and the tracking seems very smooth and fast.  Additional firmware tweaking could solve some of these issues.  Possibly through a change to the calibration process and the way the data is used.  The thing that is difficult is that the gun probably can't tell with any great precision if the shooter is holding the gun in the center and pivoting it around the X and Y-axis, or if the shooter has physically changed the position of the gun in the X and Y (and Z)....or a little of both.  It looks to me like the camera sees the markers the same way at 90 degrees to the screen as it does at a different angle, regardless of the fact that the tip is actually pointing at a different location on the screen when at that different angle.  This seems to be confirmed by the fact that accuracy is better when pointing at the side of the screen the gun is offset toward.  With only one set of markers, it may not be possible to do much better as averaging and checking for distance changes between marker sets, and any other trick associated with multiple markers situated at opposite sides of the screen, isn't possible.




The above video on YouTube from Syph007 shows it in action.  It seems fine toward the center of the screen, but at around 1:20 on the video, you can see that he misses nearly every target at the edge of the screen.  It's perfectly understandable as to why; he became very good at shooting the targets in the middle of the screen, because his brain was learning and connecting that logical extension of his arm to the target.  When he went to the edge of the screen, things changed enough so that what his brain learned in the center of the screen, no longer applied.  Even with the cursor enabled, he was apparently unable to compensate.  This aspect is the area of greatest concern to me.  Hopefully a new version of the firmware will have some new tricks to address these issues by the time I get to play with one.

RandyT

[AndyWarne]

Thanks for the Vids.

 Very sorry to see... but not surprised...  that the accuracy is poor.
Basically, you can shoot most things in the center fine.  But anything on the edges
and you will be off Over an entire CM!  Heck, I think I saw over an inch off in the vids.
   
 Sorry.. but thats just unacceptable to me. I actually like to do well in the games I play.

The videos show the effects of moving standing position which will affect the accuracy if not calibrated. But I am concerned about the first section of the accuracy video. This gives the impression that the gun is not accurate at the outset, towards the edges. It is. So something is not correct with the calibration. If the gun is not accurate then the calibration would need to be repeated, because it should be.

One issue might be screen overscan. When using an LCD monitor, the edges of the screen are the true edges of the picture so this is not an issue. On a CRT monitor with overscan it might be necessary to aim the gun outside of the screen edge when calibrating. It should be a very quick process to try some calibration cycles and get an impression of the best place to aim.

[syph007]

I've improved since I took that first video, but I still hold the conclusion that the gun isnt really usable without onscreen cursor.  I now hold the gun a tad below my line of site and soley rely on the onscreen crosshair, but I'm hitting what I'm trying to.  Guests that have tried have had alot of fun with it, so its for sure a fun addition.  Now if your expectations are greater than mine, then you might be disappointed, but it does what I expect, which is really to act as a gun like mouse.   I dont have any more trouble hitting the edges of the screen though than the center, I was just not trying as much at that point in the vid.  I'll take another to show you better.  The only thing I'm personally disapointed in is that I cant use dual guns to play house of the dead PC version, only one works.  Thats not the guns fault I know, but at least dual guns works in MAME.

[Neverending Project]

This is an opinion based on what you are showing in your videos.  I don't have one of these (yet), so your videos (and Syph's) are what I am commenting upon.

Thanks for the disclaimer.  Guess I jumped a little too much in the last thread. Sorry.

One issue might be screen overscan. When using an LCD monitor, the edges of the screen are the true edges of the picture so this is not an issue. On a CRT monitor with overscan it might be necessary to aim the gun outside of the screen edge when calibrating. It should be a very quick process to try some calibration cycles and get an impression of the best place to aim.

The other thing I was thinking about this morning is that my laser pointer is a half inch or more (that's 1-2cm for you other folk) above the camera lens. This means when the laser pointer is in the top-corner of the screen, the camera lens is actually just slightly inside the corner. Likewise on the bottom, the camera lens is actually pointing just slightly below the screen edge. I tried to adjust it as best as I can so it converges at the point the camera focus and laser pointer dot would hit the screen, but it is only a toy laser pointer taped to the gun so there's only so much I could do.

I will make some more attempts to get a better calibration.

The other thing I was thinking about was the fact that this Act Labs gun is designed as a toy and the sight is very wide. Even taking my time, steadying my shot and taking my best aim I am not going to be very accurate with the sight alone. The gun barrel is over an inch wide! I think that is what i was eluding to before... when I play arcade games I go more by feel, since that is going to give me the best results anyway. If the gun hits where I feel I am aiming but I miss my shot, I move slightly to correct.

[RandyT]

But I am concerned about the first section of the accuracy video. This gives the impression that the gun is not accurate at the outset, towards the edges. It is. So something is not correct with the calibration. If the gun is not accurate then the calibration would need to be repeated, because it should be.

One issue might be screen overscan. When using an LCD monitor, the edges of the screen are the true edges of the picture so this is not an issue. On a CRT monitor with overscan it might be necessary to aim the gun outside of the screen edge when calibrating. It should be a very quick process to try some calibration cycles and get an impression of the best place to aim.

It looks to me like there is something amiss with the calibration routines.  If you look at the video, when the calibration routines are being performed, the mouse cursor goes right to the corner and is visible the entire time.  The "start" button is also fully in view at the XP desktop, so I'm not sure why you would come to the conclusion that "overscan" was the issue.  If it were, neither of these two things would be true.  "The best place to aim" should be the locations where the arrows are pointing, no?

The other thing I was thinking about this morning is that my laser pointer is a half inch or more (that's 1-2cm for you other folk) above the camera lens. This means when the laser pointer is in the top-corner of the screen, the camera lens is actually just slightly inside the corner. Likewise on the bottom, the camera lens is actually pointing just slightly below the screen edge. I tried to adjust it as best as I can so it converges at the point the camera focus and laser pointer dot would hit the screen, but it is only a toy laser pointer taped to the gun so there's only so much I could do.

While something else might be amiss, something like this shouldn't be a problem.  It's simply an offset difference and should easily be accounted for.  It's no different than having the camera located a little lower in the barrel of the gun, or having the LED's a little higher (or both).  That's the purpose of the calibration routines.....it's supposed to make sense of these variables and adjust accordingly.  And it is pretty accurate in the center and top center, so if the laser sight placement was going to be an issue, it would be an issue there as well and it doesn't seem to be.

RandyT

[FrizzleFried]

Thanks for the Vids.

 Very sorry to see... but not surprised...  that the accuracy is poor.
Basically, you can shoot most things in the center fine.  But anything on the edges
and you will be off Over an entire CM!  Heck, I think I saw over an inch off in the vids.
   
 Sorry.. but thats just unacceptable to me. I actually like to do well in the games I play.

Looks like you won't be buying then.  Oh well.  Thanks for the input.

[Endaar]

Great videos.

Andy, if for whatever reason the edge tracking is off, could this be something that could be compensated for via software? In other words, if after calibration the user sees that the gun is tracking 1/2 inch to one side of the cursor, have the software adjust for that. Something like the mapping utlity on the U360, where a manual adjustment could be entered for each portion of the screen.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Endaar

[AndyWarne]

The calibration assumes that the 4096x4096 screen map for the device is exactly fitting the screen, and that when you point into the corner, you are actually pointing at screen location 0,0 for example.

The video shows horizontal overscan and that is the reason for the error, although its a small overscan.

There is a way around this. I could change the calibration so that the mouse cursor moves to a known position near the corner or edge and stays static, and you aim at the pointer instead of aiming at the screen edge. This would eliminate this issue but I am not sure if its really necessary. The downside of this would be on some screens the mouse pointer might be difficult to see if static. On others with a very large overscan it might be off the screen.

I will think about this, but in fact its really quite easy to allow for this. Afetr a couple of calibrations you get the idea of where to aim when calibrating. It can easily be seen whether you need to re-calibrate by looking along the sight after calibration to check it against the pointer.

Of course if the gun does not have a proper sight then all bets are off and you dont then need it to be calibrated accurately at all since the sight would not be any use anyway in gameplay, you are just shooting blind.

[Drakin]

The calibration assumes that the 4096x4096 screen map for the device is exactly fitting the screen, and that when you point into the corner, you are actually pointing at screen location 0,0 for example.

The video shows horizontal overscan and that is the reason for the error, although its a small overscan.

There is a way around this. I could change the calibration so that the mouse cursor moves to a known position near the corner or edge and stays static, and you aim at the pointer instead of aiming at the screen edge. This would eliminate this issue but I am not sure if its really necessary. The downside of this would be on some screens the mouse pointer might be difficult to see if static. On others with a very large overscan it might be off the screen.

I will think about this, but in fact its really quite easy to allow for this. Afetr a couple of calibrations you get the idea of where to aim when calibrating. It can easily be seen whether you need to re-calibrate by looking along the sight after calibration to check it against the pointer.

Of course if the gun does not have a proper sight then all bets are off and you dont then need it to be calibrated accurately at all since the sight would not be any use anyway in gameplay, you are just shooting blind.

I opt for it to stay the way it is...or somehow allow for both types of calibration.

[Xiaou2]

Of course if the gun does not have a proper sight then all bets are off and you dont then need it to be calibrated accurately at all since the sight would not be any use anyway in gameplay, you are just shooting blind.

 Maybe Im not interpreting this correctly... but this sounds Incorrect.

 As an artist, I can tell you that I have a very good eye and feeling for
angles.  My aim, is thus very good.. without the need for looking down
a sight.
 
 In fact, plenty of good gun shooters (real guns) do not use the sights,
and have incredible accuracy.  And no... that is not because they Saw
where the first bullet landed.

 Sorry, but the Shooting Blind / Accuracy comment are not applicable
to all people.

Looks like you won't be buying then.  Oh well.  Thanks for the input.

 Ohh, thank you for your concern Frizzel.   You are correct at this
point in time, as I do not buy Prototypes.  I buy fully functional and fully
tested equipment, that works as I expect it to work.

 If I wanted to play with something with poor accuracy, Id use the
CrapLabs guns I have.  Instead, Ill stick with the Topguns until
a prototype can or should I say "IF" accuracy can be shown true.

 Standing back a little further isnt so bad as having missed shots because
things are not accurate.

 Im all for a good working and accurate gun that is able to track at
closer range...   Ill keep waiting till I see it...  And if it comes, I may buy
a few of them.  Until then, Ill make my disappointment known.  Im not
the only one interested in an accurate solution.

[RandyT]

The video shows horizontal overscan and that is the reason for the error, although its a small overscan.

For overscan to be the issue causing the gross deviation at the bottom of the screen, the vertical overscan would need to be very large.  Even then, one would expect that a similar deviation would be seen at the top, or center, based on the screen mapping.  Something else seems to be awry. 

There is a way around this. I could change the calibration so that the mouse cursor moves to a known position near the corner or edge and stays static, and you aim at the pointer instead of aiming at the screen edge. This would eliminate this issue but I am not sure if its really necessary. The downside of this would be on some screens the mouse pointer might be difficult to see if static. On others with a very large overscan it might be off the screen.

Move the cursor in a small box pattern with the center of the box inset from the edge of the screen by 10%.  Get the resulting distance between the calibration shots, representing 80% of the screen distance, and add 1/8th of that distance to each side to intelligently guess where the actual screen edge is.  This will account for overscan and therefore increase the effectiveness of the calibration step...at least horizontally.  Vertically, you have a greater challenge.  The error does not appear to be linear, which is likely due to to the curve of the lens in the camera.  The further off-axis the camera lens is to the LED markers, the more likely it is that optical distortion will become a factor.  Without a second set of markers to use as a reference, the only alternative is somewhat complex and time consuming math (or a factor table) to attempt to correct for it.  The effectiveness of this is also somewhat questionable without the gun knowing, with very good accuracy, the physical size of the screen and / or  or the distance between screen and shooter.

Of course if the gun does not have a proper sight then all bets are off and you dont then need it to be calibrated accurately at all since the sight would not be any use anyway in gameplay, you are just shooting blind.

I'm not sure what you mean by "proper sights" (a definition of that would probably be helpful), but with real guns, a "proper sight" is sometimes nothing more than a ball bearing centered on the end of the barrel that can be aligned with the center of the barrel width when looking down the length of it.  In reality, a "proper sight" is any static protrusion or physical feature on the gun that a shooter can use as a reference.  So long as the shots always deviate the same way, the shooter can compensate.  It's when the deviation varies based on location of aim that compensation becomes nearly impossible.

RandyT

[ammitz]

As an artist, I can tell you that I have a very good eye and feeling for
angles.  My aim, is thus very good.. without the need for looking down
a sight.

 

[Dartful Dodger]

As an artist, I can tell you that I have a very good eye and feeling for
angles.  My aim, is thus very good.. without the need for looking down
a sight.

 

I've heard that some autistic people don't even look at their targets when they shoot.

[ammitz]

As an artist, I can tell you that I have a very good eye and feeling for
angles.  My aim, is thus very good.. without the need for looking down
a sight.

 

I've heard that some autistic people don't even look at their targets when they shoot.

I think I saw that trick in an old Ninja movie from the start of the 80's  
The Warrior and the Blind Swordsman


Sorry for this totally offtopic post, I'll keep my mouth shut for now  

[RandyT]

As much fun as you folks seem to be having, there are people so good with a gun that they can have someone throw a quarter in the air and they will shoot it out of the sky.  These folks have simply mastered the ability to use the weapon as a logical extension of their arm.  The same way you can point at something in the distance with your finger, they can hit it with a bullet, and with similar ease.

I'm not saying that an arcade gun needs to have that level of capability, but it shouldn't effectively work against the skills of the user either.

RandyT

[swamprat96]

I don't know if this is relevant but the technique andy mentions calibrating off screen works with Topguns as well. I had to calibrate a replacement gun yesterday and I used this method where I actually aimed about 1 inch of each corner of the screen. After some trial and error it was spot on. So I think this method is acceptable for aim trak. I will be buying some shortly- just collecting bits for the next cab currently

[Minwah]

I don't know if this is relevant but the technique andy mentions calibrating off screen works with Topguns as well. I had to calibrate a replacement gun yesterday and I used this method where I actually aimed about 1 inch of each corner of the screen. After some trial and error it was spot on. So I think this method is acceptable for aim trak. I will be buying some shortly- just collecting bits for the next cab currently

I had another go with my AimTrak tonight and noticed after calibrating the cursor was moving slightly faster than my aim towards the right of the screen. So similar to the video with the target above, the shots were an inch or so off (I have a 21" screen). So I calibrated again and tried pointing about an inch to the right top corner at the 'top-right' point of calibration. It took me two attempts and then the cursor was tracking excellently.

I had a go on Operation Wolf and on one credit got to the jungle round, second time around (I think that's equalled the furthest I've got before). You can afford to fire off some extra rounds in this game but I like to be pretty sparing unless there is a bunch of guys next to each other for example. I was looking through the sights the whole time and it seemed that most shots went where intended...

I then played a few other games (all without crosshairs) and again very pleasing. I even did pretty well in Clay Pigeon (which I don't think I've played before with a gun) and seemed to hit much more than I missed. In this game the targets are pretty small so it's probably fair to say most if not all misses were my fault.

One thing worth a mention is that after a good calibration, I did not re-calibrate for particular games. I checked now and again with the crosshair and it remained good.

I think it's true (& perhaps obvious) to say once you get a spot on calibration you will have no problem in game. To Neverending Project, and others finding the calibration going out towards the egde of the screen, I would suggest aiming slightly outside the screen during calibration. If you aim too far outside the screen (as I did the first time), you will get the opposite problem (the cursor will track slower than the gun towards the edge). So with a few goes you should be able to get it right on.

Maybe I will try to do a video of some gameplay if I can get someone to film it (& if my camera picture is good enough).

Finally, I've shot the apple off the mans head, shot the coin, shot the cowboy hat and the UFO with one shot (each) every time 

[FrizzleFried]

Looks like you won't be buying then.  Oh well.  Thanks for the input.

 Ohh, thank you for your concern Frizzel.   You are correct at this
point in time, as I do not buy Prototypes.  I buy fully functional and fully
tested equipment, that works as I expect it to work.

 If I wanted to play with something with poor accuracy, Id use the
CrapLabs guns I have.  Instead, Ill stick with the Topguns until
a prototype can or should I say "IF" accuracy can be shown true.

 Standing back a little further isnt so bad as having missed shots because
things are not accurate.

 Im all for a good working and accurate gun that is able to track at
closer range...   Ill keep waiting till I see it...  And if it comes, I may buy
a few of them.  Until then, Ill make my disappointment known.  Im not
the only one interested in an accurate solution.

Well...Looks like you won't be buying then.  Oh well.  Thanks for the input.

[Ginsu Victim]

Adding an option to change the way the calibration routine works would be nice. I have zero overscan, but the moving arrow was a pain at times.

[Neverending Project]

Adding an option to change the way the calibration routine works would be nice. I have zero overscan, but the moving arrow was a pain at times.

When calibrating on the Windows desktop I would set the trigger to a button (rather than a mouse) because leaving it as a mouse click would click my desktop icons and quick launch icons every time I calibrated. Since the pointer was moving it would drag the icons off of the quick launch bar to the desktop.

[smalltownguy]

Adding an option to change the way the calibration routine works would be nice. I have zero overscan, but the moving arrow was a pain at times.

When calibrating on the Windows desktop I would set the trigger to a button (rather than a mouse) because leaving it as a mouse click would click my desktop icons and quick launch icons every time I calibrated. Since the pointer was moving it would drag the icons off of the quick launch bar to the desktop.

Yeah, big +1 on THAT statement. Moved my icons all over the screen during calibration.

On the plus side, I did finally finish installing my AimTrak in my Sega Light Phaser, with an Atari Volcano swich added to the back of the gun for the 'aux' button. Tracks perfectly in T2, and my 'hammer button' fires grenades for me. Sweet! 

Guess I better get over to my thread and update the rest of it.

[ammitz]

Guess I better get over to my thread and update the rest of it.

+1

[AndyWarne]

The error does not appear to be linear, which is likely due to to the curve of the lens in the camera. 

The error you are referring to is much more likely to be caused by incorrect adjustment of the vertical linearity of the monitor screen because its not there on my screen... I think it would be good if you would not incorrectly theorise about what could be wrong with the design.

I'm not sure what you mean by "proper sights"

What I mean is like the sights on a Guncon. A small V shaped notch at the top rear of the gun and a projection on the front top, which you line up into the V.

[vartech]

I am currently looking at the Aimtrak for my arcade.  What I see alot of is people comparing it to a real gun.  "A real gun expert can hit with out sights can shoot from instinct."  Well I saw show on tv about shooting experts and they all had custom guns and lots and lots of practice.  they would have to comensate for different guns, But they could do it faster than the average person.  So if the AimTrak is off an 1/2 inch then a pro would compensate and be dead on.  I doubt we have expert marksmen using the AimTrak.  I would like to hear the comments of someone who owns a real arcade gun game and have them compair the two.  I think that would be a good measure of the gun.  I see people wanting dead on accuracy I very much doubt that the orginals were dead on taking into account the tech on them.  Now would LEDs around the whole screen make it better maybe but how much more better? Sorry for the rant but I am looking for arcade experience and was never a expert marksman and I do not expect to be with the AimTrak.  Thats like the parents who buy there kids 5000 golf clubs and expect them to play like tiger woods.  So are the issues that people are having user interface errors or ID10T errors?

[RayB]

If the offset is consistent, then a simple fix to this would be an option to rturn on an "offset multiplier" in the drivers. At the most you'd need 4 offset multipliers, one for top, bottom, right, and left. Since center is so accurate, that will fix the problem (until the player changes position too much?)

[ammitz]

I am currently looking at the Aimtrak for my arcade.  What I see alot of is people comparing it to a real gun.  "A real gun expert can hit with out sights can shoot from instinct."  Well I saw show on tv about shooting experts and they all had custom guns and lots and lots of practice.  they would have to comensate for different guns, But they could do it faster than the average person.  So if the AimTrak is off an 1/2 inch then a pro would compensate and be dead on.  I doubt we have expert marksmen using the AimTrak.  I would like to hear the comments of someone who owns a real arcade gun game and have them compair the two.  I think that would be a good measure of the gun.  I see people wanting dead on accuracy I very much doubt that the orginals were dead on taking into account the tech on them.  Now would LEDs around the whole screen make it better maybe but how much more better? Sorry for the rant but I am looking for arcade experience and was never a expert marksman and I do not expect to be with the AimTrak.  Thats like the parents who buy there kids 5000 golf clubs and expect them to play like tiger woods.  So are the issues that people are having user interface errors or ID10T errors?

+2

[PsychoAU]

It sounds more and more like Randy is, in fact, trying to tear down the competition.  Randy, if you want a light gun to behave like a real gun, make sure to factor that in to the GroovyGameGear light gun module...  oh wait, you aren't making one.  

Randy:

[Ginsu Victim]

I am currently looking at the Aimtrak for my arcade.  What I see alot of is people comparing it to a real gun.  "A real gun expert can hit with out sights can shoot from instinct."  Well I saw show on tv about shooting experts and they all had custom guns and lots and lots of practice.  they would have to comensate for different guns, But they could do it faster than the average person.  So if the AimTrak is off an 1/2 inch then a pro would compensate and be dead on.  I doubt we have expert marksmen using the AimTrak.  I would like to hear the comments of someone who owns a real arcade gun game and have them compair the two.  I think that would be a good measure of the gun.  I see people wanting dead on accuracy I very much doubt that the orginals were dead on taking into account the tech on them.  Now would LEDs around the whole screen make it better maybe but how much more better? Sorry for the rant but I am looking for arcade experience and was never a expert marksman and I do not expect to be with the AimTrak.  Thats like the parents who buy there kids 5000 golf clubs and expect them to play like tiger woods.  So are the issues that people are having user interface errors or ID10T errors?

+2

+2?

Really?

I actually had to stop myself from posting a reply because it was too harsh.

[RandyT]

The error you are referring to is much more likely to be caused by incorrect adjustment of the vertical linearity of the monitor screen because its not there on my screen... I think it would be good if you would not incorrectly theorise about what could be wrong with the design.

The calibration is off by an inch on the video.  That's a serious "linearity" problem.

BTW, a good way to stop people from theorizing what the problems are would be to offer some reasons that make sense to explain them.

What I mean is like the sights on a Guncon. A small V shaped notch at the top rear of the gun and a projection on the front top, which you line up into the V.

So, a laser is less accurate?

I am currently looking at the Aimtrak for my arcade.  What I see alot of is people comparing it to a real gun.  "A real gun expert can hit with out sights can shoot from instinct."  Well I saw show on tv about shooting experts and they all had custom guns and lots and lots of practice.  they would have to comensate for different guns, But they could do it faster than the average person.  So if the AimTrak is off an 1/2 inch then a pro would compensate and be dead on.  I doubt we have expert marksmen using the AimTrak.

Well, I'm a little rusty with the real ones, but my military qualifications with firearms was "Expert".  I was qualified with M-16's, M-60, Grenade Launchers, Light Anti-Tank, Claymore Mines and hand grenades.  I have also fired and done well with military .45's and .38 caliber pistols.

I have played virtually every gun game ever offered in the arcade....many times.

I also have a dedicated gun rig set up with a 37" RGB monitor and a PS2 connected through true RGB with 2 Guncon2's and a couple of GunCon1's.  This setup is about as close to the arcade as it gets.

I also own the LCDTopGun, multiple guns for XBOX, Playstation1, Dreamcast, Genesis, NES and SEGA MasterSystem.  I also hacked SMS guns to work with an Amiga and have played around with the Wiimotes I own.

Is that enough to qualify me as an "educated enthusiast" for this type of technology?

Trust me, if this is a good solution, I'll be here with bells on to let everyone know.  Mine should be here in a few days, so all I can do at the moment is comment on the videos and comments of others.  But you should probably read what I wrote earlier about being able to compensate for a constant error.  Yes, it can be done, and is often required on weapons with fixed sights.  When I was a young kid, my cheap BB rifle always shot low and to the right.  Once I compensated for that fact, I was very accurate with that thing.  But you cannot compensate for a variable deviation that is based on where you are aiming.  

RandyT

[HaRuMaN]

 

[Ginsu Victim]

Don't encourage it. We've already been down this road before, but I guess it's too late to change it. Might as well sit back and enjoy the show.

[HaRuMaN]

I'm not encouraging.  Just grabbin' the popcorn and sitting back....

[RandyT]

It sounds more and more like Randy is, in fact, trying to tear down the competition.  Randy, if you want a light gun to behave like a real gun, make sure to factor that in to the GroovyGameGear light gun module...  oh wait, you aren't making one.  

Randy:

Like others, I too have to work hard for my $50.  I also want a good working gun solution for my machine, as others here do.  And as a member of the community, I get concerned when people start throwing around words like "incredible" to describe something when there is so much conflict of opinion, and demonstrations of functionality don't seem to back it up.

I feel like I wasted my money on the LCDTopGun because it sits in a box.  It was a neat gizmo to play with, but ultimately had no long term value due to the limitations it has.  Folks who are overly enamored by a product because it sort of lets them play, could be leading others to blow $50 they might not be able to spare on a neat gizmo that ultimately doesn't get used due to it's limitations.

Understand?

BTW, I have one on the way, and I will be able to be more thorough with it.  It's not the first Ultimarc product I have purchased, of a type which I don't build myself.

RandyT

[syph007]

I posted this before in my mini review, but maybe I should mention it again.  I noticed the non linear x tracking as well, but I noticed it only happened when i moved the gun by rotating my body.  If i kept the gun as the pivot point, the cursor and sites always lined up.   I would expect you'd need some kind of tweak to compensate for the gun rotating about a fixed point (the player) a fixed distance from that point.   Possibly a modified calibration routine could take this into account.

[smalltownguy]

Vartech: Don't sweat getting the AimTrak. I'm a regular joe shmoe guy, and I was able to use it with minimal effort. The fact that I chose to fit it in a gun housing that presented its own unique challenges (Sega Light Phaser) was my own doing, and even THAT didn't take too much effort to overcome. The end result for me was a light gun that does what I want it to do -- constant tracking, and shoot stuff. I don't care if the tracking is going to fade a bit towards the edges because

1. Andy will undoubtedly correct this with a firmware update (not that I need it, b/c)
2. My aim is much worse than any change in the tracking.

I play for fun, not for marksmanship.

[vartech]

Well, I'm a little rusty with the real ones, but my military qualifications with firearms was "Expert".  I was qualified with M-16's, M-60, Grenade Launchers, Light Anti-Tank, Claymore Mines and hand grenades.  I have also fired and done well with military .45's and .38 caliber pistols.

I have played virtually every gun game ever offered in the arcade....many times.

I also have a dedicated gun rig set up with a 37" RGB monitor and a PS2 connected through true RGB with 2 Guncon2's and a couple of GunCon1's. This setup is about as close to the arcade as it gets.

I also own the LCDTopGun, multiple guns for XBOX, Playstation1, Dreamcast, Genesis, NES and SEGA MasterSystem.  I also hacked SMS guns to work with an Amiga and have played around with the Wiimotes I own.

Is that enough to qualify me as an "educated enthusiast" for this type of technology?

Trust me, if this is a good solution, I'll be here with bells on to let everyone know.  Mine should be here in a few days, so all I can do at the moment is comment on the videos and comments of others.  But you should probably read what I wrote earlier about being able to compensate for a constant error.  Yes, it can be done, and is often required on weapons with fixed sights.  When I was a young kid, my cheap BB rifle always shot low and to the right.  Once I compensated for that fact, I was very accurate with that thing.  But you cannot compensate for a variable deviation that is based on where you are aiming.  

RandyT

how accurate are the setups you have? Are they consistent with shots?  I am not trying to be rude I want someones honest opinion on the setups they have and if they are dead on all the time?  Also when you compare them to the AimTrak please do so to other arcade/video products past and presents.  No real guns they kind of kill the fun after the first shot.

[RandyT]

how accurate are the setups you have? Are they consistent with shots?  I am not trying to be rude I want someones honest opinion on the setups they have and if they are dead on all the time?  Also when you compare them to the AimTrak please do so to other arcade/video products past and presents.  No real guns they kind of kill the fun after the first shot.

The GunCon2's (and 1's) are the "gold standard" for me.  They are consistently the most accurate, which is why I chose to build a dedicated shooting setup around them.  Like all raster based guns, they have a little jitter at the extreme edges (right where the tube meets the bezel), but overall are very consistent and accurate.  If the Aimtrak can be tweaked to be as good as these, even if it means "trick" calibration, you can bet I will be sounding the "buy" bell.

RandyT