Windows 7 vs. XP64: Better in the short run? The long run?

[Triangel7D]

Windows 7 is getting released on Oct. 22. As I have just started configuring my software for my cabinet on XP64, I'm wondering what people think will be the best 64-bit OS for MAME, Future/Virtual Pinball, Daphne & MESS in the next few months (or for the foreseeable future). Does driver compatibility come into play (favoring XP64, although I'm using an LCD monitor) or will Windows 7 be the superior (hopefully faster?) 64-bit system?

In a related question, if I upgrade from XP64 to Windows 7, is that a straightforward upgrade, or will that require a wipe of everything (like an XP32 to Windows 7 upgrade)?

[Beretta]

not tried windows 7, but the requirements for xp64 are lower so for mame i'd expect it to be less hoggy in the background.

mame does'nt use dx10 i dunno maybe someone else can chime in here i can't see any advantage win7 would have over xp64.

you could setup a duel boot and keep both.

[solid12345]

I'd probably just stick with XP, if possible an nlited install that is only barebones. Most likely you are using a frontend anyway, why bother with all the flashy graphics which really is the only reason to upgrade to Windows 7 except maybe for better internet security but I doubt you plan on connecting your cab online anyway(?)

[massive88]

There will be more hardware and software compatible with Win7 than XP64, especially heading into the future.

Right now, today, its not a real big issue.  In the future it may be.

[Santoro]

I am running Windows 7 64 bit RTM, driver support and performance is very, very good on newish hardware.  If your hardware is a few years old, XP 64 is probably a better bet.

[Octo]

There will be more hardware and software compatible with Win7 than XP64, especially heading into the future.

Right now, today, its not a real big issue.  In the future it may be.

I would think relevant hardware (ie. IPACs, LEDWizs, monitors) won't change enough in the next few years to warrant Windows 7. Maybe when Windows 8 comes out.

[wp34]

I've been running 64-bit Vista for about 6 months on my tablet at work.  I've been amazed how much more stable it is than XP.  Particularly with all the bad press about Vista.  I've had a few driver and version issues but once I got around those it has been great.

[Beretta]

vista was a flop, windows 7 is actually the new one about to be released so it's the successor to vista.

in my experience most instability is from flaky drivers, so if you're using the system for mame i doubt vista is gonna buy you any increased stability assuming the system is already stable to start with.

[FrizzleFried]

I've been running 64-bit Vista for about 6 months on my tablet at work.  I've been amazed how much more stable it is than XP.  Particularly with all the bad press about Vista.  I've had a few driver and version issues but once I got around those it has been great.

Strange... my main box has been running 24/7 for just about 3 years... I can't remember the last time I was "forced" to reboot... though I know it's happened once or twice since I've been to Idaho.  I wouldn't touch Windows Vista ...ever.

Now that is the 32 bit version,  but I've been running Windows XP X64 on my main MAME rig with little issue once past the initial driver issues.

[Silas (son of Silas)]

I run a virtual windows 7 machine on a Linux VirtualBox host. Its an interesting OS. Nothing about it seems groundbreaking but its definitely the OS that Vista should have been. I also have a number of virtual XP machines and the laptop I am running this on is running Vista x64 because thats what it came with.

Long term, if you are a windows user the transition to 7 from XP or Vista (based on my experience with 7) is a good idea. Its a reasonably efficient OS, with an acceptable footprint and long term support for current and future hardware.

[TOK]

I think Windows 7 is the real deal. I've been running the 64 bit release candidate for a few months and I love it.
I was always hesitant to jump to 64 bit XP because when it was new the driver support was sketchy. This seemed to be fixed with Vista, but that was such a kludge I didn't want to use it.

[Triangel7D]

I'm pretty convinced now that *someday* I'll have to upgrade to Win 7. Thank you all. I guess I'll be keeping that Windows 7 upgrade I bought during the July 1/2 price sale. But I'm still wondering...

1) Is the upgrade from XP64 to Windows 7 a straightforward upgrade, or a "clean" one like XP32 to Vista64 (where the hard drive has to be wiped)?

2) Is there a recognizable speed increase in MAME going from XP64 to Win 7?

[Silas (son of Silas)]

I've only installed 7 as a clean build, so can't help with Q1.

Regarding speed, what exactly are you hoping will speed up in MAME? the games should run as close to the original game speed that you hardware will allow. If you have games that run below original speed you need to identify what is slowing it down and try to erradicate it. Usually the limiting factor is is your CPU, and from my experience, 7 doesn't magically free up some spare CPU cycles, although as an OS is is definitely nicer to use on a daily basis than Vista (maybe XP too...?).

Thats one of the reasons my MAME machine runs Ubuntu Linux with SDLMAME and WAH!CADE rather than windows. I built it to do a limited set of tasks. These being: a file server for my HUGE movie collection (it feeds all the TVs in my house), a Jukebox, a torrent downloader, an arcade machine and a DVD ripper.

It does all of those perfectly. Not a single cpu cycle or byte of memory is wasted on antivirus software (before any windows users jump on me for not running antivirus software, read THIS ), anti malware, desktop widgets, automated online backup software etc etc and all that gubbins that windows seems to accumulate over time, just doing nothing.

[Triangel7D]

How is that a "limited" number of tasks  ?

I thought I had read somewhere on the Forum that Vista gives a MAME speed increase over XP64, but I guess I was mis-remembering. I have to keep reminding myself that eventually all this PC will be doing is sitting in a cabinet running games and nothing else. I wish I had the skill to jump to Linux, but I'm already making a lot of "jumps" with this new hobby (I'm a Mac guy that just built his 1st PC and is about to try overclocking!).

[Silas (son of Silas)]

Interesting evolution, Mac to PC! Usually its the other way around.

I started as a PC/DOS/Windows guy, moved to Macs, then Linux then on a professional basis learned some Unix, VMS and TACL.

I stick with Linux at home, and when Karmic Koala is released in Beta tomorrow, the Vista laptop I am typing this on will become a duel boot Ubuntu and Vista machine. The only things I use windows for by choice are Google Sketchup and my Apple Airport Extreme base station software.

Linux isn't the leap into the dark it used to be. Especially distros like Ubuntu, with features like WUBI that allow you to try the whole OS as an application under windows, before commiting to actually install it. As an emulation based gamer, Linux can be really worth the leap, but unless you can really identify a reason to make the leap, its probably not worth it for a machine that will just sit in the corner playing Galaga on a Friday night.

 

[FrizzleFried]

I'm not interested in being tethered to MS.  If a version comes out that eliminates the ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- authenticity checks and doesn't constantly ping Redmond,  I may take a gander.  Until then,  I will stick with my XP Professional...

I still use OS9 for work... so I'd have no problem sticking with XP for another 10 years....

[Triangel7D]

Wow! Another reason I love this forum -- I love seeing others like me not "politically" tied to a particular OS or company (or in Silas' case, all of the above).

Yeah, I'm a Mac, except when it comes to emulation. This whole cabinet-with-a-PC-brain thing started after realizing that X-Arcade + Mac is not a well-supported way to run MAME.

[Silas (son of Silas)]

I'm not interested in being tethered to MS.  If a version comes out that eliminates the ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- authenticity checks and doesn't constantly ping Redmond,  I may take a gander.

Thought about this?



Not a ping to Redmond in sight ;-)

[Neverending Project]

Thought about this?

I think I get your point, but that video proves nothing (to me). I saw that the Ubuntu machine booted 20 seconds faster, and that Firefox launched much faster on the Ubuntu machine than IE did on the Windows machine.

Launch times are barely an indicator of overall performance. Once your app is running, do they run the same speed? IE is a dog, and Firefox isn't. I wonder if we looked at a comparison of Firefox on both machines what it would look like? Also, comparing different browsers is a bit like comparing two different cars with different engines rather than an comparison of one OS to another.

In the end if the only difference is launch times, I surely don't mind taking an extra swig or two of my beverage while the machine takes an extra 20 seconds to boot up. Let's see the comparison of frame-rate to frame-rate in MAME to see if it makes a difference?

[massive88]

Huh?  Theres many arguments to the validity of this video, but hes running firefox in both OSes.

[syph007]

I sure wouldnt pay for windows 7 just to put on a MAME machine.  But if you have it and want to use it go nuts.   The only reason to upgrade OS's for me is if the hardware dies and not readily replaced.   It's not like my XP install on my MAME machine will suddenly stop allowing me to play games if MS releases new OS's.   Now if the mobo dies etc and I need to build a new setup and its cost effective to get newer hardward and the old OS now longer makes sense or works, then sure upgrade.  My moto for ages though has not been to upgrade unless there is a darn good reason.

[Beretta]

wow guys it's a topic about xp x64 vs win 7.. this is'nt a topic to end all discussion on OS.

personally i'd vote for linux for efficiency, although i love the terminal on linux damn near every GUI out there i hate.. although they're getting better.

linux scales very well you can run it on almost any thing and it's not a hog like windows.

on the other hand i much like windows GUI for day to day.. but linux has more control over stuff.. infact sometimes TO much control as you can really get into the nuts and bolts.

it's just not as user friendly as windows, for servers it's great though.. and would probably make a great mame machine for a cab.

another problem with linux is driver support.. although it's getting better most device mfg's dont wanna open up their vaults and share the hardwares data sheets or even supply their own drivers for linux.
they're starting to come around but a lot of the driver support is flaky because they're forced to write their own with probing and best guesses.. like trying to build a house without a blue print.

so linux is great on older hardware that people have had time to study.

not as great at hardware that is new or is uncommon that no one has poked and prodded yet.

i look forward to the day when microsoft is forced to share the market but that day has'nt come yet and probably wont for a while even though alternatives are getting better all the time they're still a long ways off from converting windows users.

@ syph007 thats exactly how most people think thats why microsoft has sucha  strangle hold on PC because damn near every computer out there comes bundle with a copy of it rather you want it or not.

they help the PC market my artificially inducing upgrade cycles by killing off support for older OS or making something "New os only" just like they're trying with dx10, the problem here is vista has issues and most developers had already said they're not in a rush to push dx10 because most people was still running XP.

anyway so after the chop their older OS off at the knees then people say i gots to get a new pc so i can have the new windows to do the same crap i was doing 6 months ago.

MS use to be better about supporting older OS, but their killing them off faster and faster as newer versions come out.

[Silas (son of Silas)]

...another problem with linux is driver support..

That can be very true. Especially with some distros, it can be a total PITA to get some brand new hardware working. In the last couple of years, mainstream distros like Ubuntu are pretty good, but still have issues. The reason my new laptop that I am writing this post on is running Vista is because my chipset isn't supported in Ubuntu until the Beta release of Karmic Koala tomorrow. Vista runs without issue, so your absolutely right, driver support can be a real problem.

Things are a lot better than they used to be. I've never had to wait more than 6 months for a new chipset or device to be supported, but in the Windows world support is there from day 1.

The appeal of Linux for an arcade machine is it works, and it works really well and its free. When I used to run MAME on XP on an old HP laptop, the frame rate struggled on some games. When I rebuilt it with with Puppy Linux and SDLMAME the same games flew. Was it worth it? NO... No way in Hell. It took so long to get it working it would have been easier to just upgrade my hardware.

If you're not dealing with trashcan hardware then mainstream distros can run SDLMAME out of the box with no hassle or Linux knowledge and its still free (and fast  ) 

[u_rebelscum]

1) Is the upgrade from XP64 to Windows 7 a straightforward upgrade, or a "clean" one like XP32 to Vista64 (where the hard drive has to be wiped)?

No.  From what I've read, you'd need to do a fresh install when going for xp to 7 (and from vista 32bit to 7 64bit, and for "downgrading" levels (say from vista ultimate up-down to 7 home).

2) Is there a recognizable speed increase in MAME going from XP64 to Win 7?

My understanding was it won't be noticeable.  It wasn't noticeable between xp64 & vista64.  I doubt win7 64 will be that much different for mame.  Other things like boot time, GUI speed, other games, other apps, might be noticeable, though.

[Triangel7D]

Thanks Rebelscum! That's what I needed to hear, I think. I think I'll be sticking with XP64 for now. At least I can get to work right away now (instead of waiting for the 22nd)!

[atarimuseum]

Anyone seeing any issues/problems running MAME under Windows 7



Curt

[protokatie]

I still use OS9 for work... so I'd have no problem sticking with XP for another 10 years....

OS9 is awesome, the latest release was in Feb or so of this year. Unix like OS, multi user, fully multitasking. It could even run on Tandy Computers with limited RAM. Ported to MANY platforms. Expect for Amiga OS, OS9 is my fav. My least favourite OS's are the line of Mac OS's up until X. (MacOS7 was an improvement, but MacOS9 still sucks. Luckily Apple went to a UNIX based system with Mac OS X.)

Best OS's IMHO (all time)

1. Amiga OS
2 OS9
3 Ubuntu
4. CP/M

Worst OS's IMHO (all time)

1. MacOS (pre X) (eg MacOS9)
2. Sinclare Basic (2k)
3. MS DOS (pre version 5)

[retrometro]

has anyone successfully run soft15khz on 64bit windows 7?  vista x64 is a no go so i've stayed on xp x64