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Author Topic: CRT vs LCD...  (Read 15611 times)

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southpaw13

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CRT vs LCD...
« on: September 04, 2009, 12:39:18 pm »
This might have been covered, but I see monitor manufactures no longer selling CRT screens.  Any advice for someone that wants to restore a couple Williams cabs?  They are going to run Mame, but should I be trying to pick up a few VGA CRT's now or just get LCD's?   

Thanks for any suggestions,
SP

Beretta

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2009, 01:06:46 pm »
thats hard, because neither will look like the original.

the lcd will be lighter and easier to work with, lcd's dont like resolutions different then their native, anything larger then say 21 inches is gonna be wide screen.. infact now days almost ALL are wide screen, this means some way some how you're not gonna get the full screen out of most games unless you destroy the games aspect ratio.. it also means fitting a smaller screen then normal in a cab since it's wider then a standard 4.3 arcade monitor.

the vga crt on the other hand are heavier, harder to mount, but can handle different resolutions better..
they come up to 19 inches without much trouble.. can even find them in 21 inch.. anything larger then that is very difficult to find.. you can probably get a vga crt cheap or free.

manufactures are ramping down production so it's becoming harder and harder to find new ones, once they go out it's difficult to get them repaired i had a 21inch go out on me and none of the shops would touch it, they're all repairing lcd's these days.

again neither will look like the original.. for that i suggest you get a arcade monitor.

or my 2nd choice would be a crt tv, also on it's last leg, but at least they look a lot closer to an arcade monitor then the lcd or vga, you can get crt tv's free or for cheap.
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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2009, 01:14:46 pm »
I would suggest trying to find a Wells Gardner D9500.  They are great for this sort of thing, but they aren't made anymore (they no longer have a source for the tubes.)
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2009, 01:16:14 pm »
. . and LCD is going to look WAY different!

At some point I'm going to get the highest DPI LCD I can find and see about putting better CRT emulation in Mame.  I think you should be able to get pretty close as the DPI gets higher and the contrast ratio (specifically the black levels) get better.
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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2009, 05:51:24 pm »
I replace my old tube with one from a CRT TV without any major issues

southpaw13

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2009, 06:23:48 pm »
I am not too worried about finding a LCD at 19" (without widesreen) because this is what Wells Gardner is selling as the replacement.  I was just wondering how the arcade quality CRT's look and then what do you do for a bezel?  Also, I thought there is some type of conversion card sold by Wells Gardner to handle the older resolutions on the newer LCD's....

Level42

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2009, 06:23:54 pm »
This might have been covered, but I see monitor manufactures no longer selling CRT screens. 

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=search


Sorry, I couldn't resist.


LCD SUCKS.

Get a real CRT monitor instead from www.arcadeshop.com (Vision Pro) or maybe here:
http://www.pentusa.com

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2009, 06:29:51 pm »
WG D9800...working fine for many months now and sooo much better than my component tv was in the cab or lcd bartop.
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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2009, 06:31:11 pm »
Thanks for posting the arcadeshop link Level42!  I had a terrible time finding new CRTs when I was looking for them.  Ended up finding three new-in-box D9500s a few months ago.  I had no idea that new ones would start showing up again. :)
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


Ginsu Victim

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2009, 07:41:21 pm »
My friend has bought DOZENS of them from Arcadeshop. They're good.

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2009, 07:44:22 pm »
My friend has bought DOZENS of them from Arcadeshop. They're good.

Is tri-sync == multisync?  Which ones in particular did he buy from there?
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2009, 07:49:53 pm »
I'd probably go with a PC CRT but that's cause 15khz isn't important to me.  ...Hell I can't even stand the 60hz flicker of any monitor.

I'd get something like a Dell P1110 21" which uses a Sony Trinitron tube and has two VGA inputs.  Under the ABS plastic shell the monitor is encased in a steel faraday cage for structure.  So you can remove the ENTIRE shell of the monitor it remains structurally sound and all the 'kill you with electricity' bits are still behind the steel which also acts as a faraday cage.  Even the monitor inputs are on an external connector on a wire.  So you could take hte monitor's buttons for controlling the OSD and build them into your CP even.

Ah, here's an example of the same tube in a Sony G500 with the front and covering parts of the ABS shell removed.  The button part and the stand remain on.  So you can get most of the excess plastic off the monitor and mount it right in while everything is behind the RF sheilding.

« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 07:54:39 pm by DJ_Izumi »

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2009, 09:03:12 pm »
15kHz doesn't mean 15 Hz vertical sync.  All it means is that you are running low resolution. . your refresh rate is typical 60 frames/sec.  You want 15kHz if you want the game to look like they did originally.
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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2009, 09:16:21 pm »
15kHz doesn't mean 15 Hz vertical sync.

No, I know 15Khz and 60Khz are both 60hz sync rate. :)  I just meant that with a VGA monitor you could have it all at like 85hz or higher, which I considder an advantage.  Even my DC on VGA at 31khz hurts my eyes with that thing flickering at 60hz.  Meanwhile at 85hz in PC games, I'm happy as a clam.

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2009, 09:20:28 pm »
If you have a CRT monitor with more persistence (which most arcade monitors do), you don't perceive the flicker as much.
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


Ginsu Victim

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2009, 09:23:14 pm »
My friend has bought DOZENS of them from Arcadeshop. They're good.

Is tri-sync == multisync?  Which ones in particular did he buy from there?

Nope, CGA only. For restorations.

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2009, 09:33:38 pm »
If you have a CRT monitor with more persistence (which most arcade monitors do), you don't perceive the flicker as much.

Ah, I'd never heard of that.  Interesting.  Though wouldn't persistance also result in lag?  Basicly slower time for the pixel to lose it's charge?

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2009, 09:50:14 pm »
The flicker that you perceive is the time that the monitor goes black between frames.  If the phosphors persist more, it's still lit by the time the next frame comes around.  You basically want it to persist long enough that the flicker goes away, but not much longer or you start seeing afterimage.
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torez

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2009, 09:58:36 pm »
85 Hz refresh rate kills the monitor much faster.  I found (back in the day:)) that 75 Hz is ideal for a CRT.  No flicker at all.  Human eye can see at around 65 Hz.
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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2009, 10:02:29 pm »
never heard of 85khz killing any monitor that could handle it.

as for the flicker i can still notice it at 75, although at 85 i can't

not that it's bad at 75 but i have to agree 85 is better.

on the other hand 60 is'nt bad when watching video or playing a game.
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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2009, 10:07:00 pm »
85 Hz refresh rate kills the monitor much faster.  I found (back in the day:)) that 75 Hz is ideal for a CRT.  No flicker at all.  Human eye can see at around 65 Hz.

My 21" CRTs were manufactured in 2001 and still kicking.  I think 85hz is fine. :D

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2009, 10:31:51 pm »
torez, on a completely different note, I notice that you are the Omega Race champ.  I just got a machine (in excellent shape!), so I might have to bug you for pointers at some point since I suck even worse than I did when I was a kid. :)
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2009, 11:40:47 pm »
whats the biggest factor for you? authenticity? cost? ease of install?  a 19"VGA monitor would prolly be the easiest and least expensive
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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2009, 11:52:20 pm »
.... No flicker at all.  Human eye can see at around 65 Hz.

Misconception, it's closer to 200Hz or better assuming 20/20 or better vision and a healthy alert individual. There is an old study on precisely that subject dating back to sometime around WWII.

As near as I can tell, that field of science has gone virtually untouched since the 40's or thereabouts.

On a CRT (or even an LCD), there are other factors to consider of course, persistence, film (or game) image quality, transition, etc. But the gist remains the same, human eye has a much higher perception, recognition and (with the brain) retention than anyone wishes to give it credit for.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 11:58:33 pm by SavannahLion »

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2009, 12:05:21 am »
I've noticed that with framerate, it REALLY pulls interesting tricks on the human mind.

Uhh most films are 24fps and look totally awesome and 'real'.  I recall putting Blackhawk Down through a 60fps interpolator program in PowerDVD or WinDVD, I forget which.  Suddenly BAM, that 'real looking movie' the movement all felt super smooth in a cheap way, like that feeling you get watching handicam footage on Cops or something.  My friend even remarked "Wow it's like it turned it into Cops: Mogadishu' somehow!"

That's similar to why camcorders often have that 'camcorder feel' to the movement on screen.  Cause you're looking at true interlaced 60hz while film, evne for TV is telecined 24fps.

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2009, 05:08:18 am »
Its all a matter of taste. I personally think the classics shine even better on modern LCD's. Leave all the crap OpenGL scaling turned off, and enjoy that marvellous blocky graphics to the max! Come and have a look at my wide gamut LCD with DK on it. It's fantastic! Atari 2600 games: breathtaking! My game gear games (which were shown on the crappiest of the crappiest colour LCD back then): astonishing graphics! It's like all the games get that mystical Madonna being 50 years old look. Even prettier then you remember them from the past. The game-pixel-art flourishes like it has never flourished before!

What if the current LCD was available in 1970, and computing power was like it was in 1970? Atari would have put LCD in the cabs then (off course, the image computing power of an LCD screen is way more powerful then any system made before 1990). They just bought the best technology available back then.

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2009, 05:21:04 am »
Whether it was intentional or not, the CRT design is the best upscaler that I know of. :)  I wish all LCDs had a decent emulation of CRT video built in. :)
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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2009, 05:24:59 am »
If you have a CRT monitor with more persistence (which most arcade monitors do), you don't perceive the flicker as much.
Those long decays are really something out of history (B&W arcades). This is a pretty regular RBG-CRT figure:

This typical RGB phosphor looses 90% of its brightness already 1ms after it is lit. In 2ms it looks black completely. The next frame takes 17ms, so the persistence is not really helping reduction of the flickr in this case.

Here you see a really fast and a really slow one (the last one would probably give a classic Pong look):
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 05:31:25 am by Blanka »

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2009, 05:34:10 am »
That explains the apparent flickering.  It's weird that I see it when I first start up a game, but that I stop noticing it when I start playing.  I suppose it's one of the few things that I'm not totally anal about with audio and video. :)  Audio latency is driving me batty.  I have a high quality/low-latency audio device from doing music stuff that I'm going to try to see if I can get the Mame latency down to the lowest setting, which will probably be fine for me.  Tearing drives me nuts too.  I'm planning on trying svgalib/Linux to get the resolution and refresh rate for the games that I care about (it's a pain in the butt in Windows), but I haven't gotten around to it yet.  I've been tempted to modify Mame in Windows to be smarter about dropping frames where appropriate when vsyncing so that things don't go bad.  It knows how to drop frames if the CPU is behind, but it doesn't know how to drop frame if the GPU is behind from what I can tell.  That's the cause of the audio badness with vsync.  I don't like the cabmame solution of retiming the audio. . .I'd rather drop frames of video occasionally.
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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2009, 10:20:29 am »
I recall putting Blackhawk Down through a 60fps interpolator program in PowerDVD or WinDVD, I forget which.

Downloading PoweDVD 9 Ultra now. It has it. Thanks.

Update: Just tried it. Wow, not quite as weird as the 120hz TVs, but still pretty weird.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 10:49:20 am by Ginsu Victim »

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2009, 12:26:25 pm »
What if the current LCD was available in 1970, and computing power was like it was in 1970?

That would be a true anachronism.

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2009, 12:27:31 pm »
Blanka i wont disagree that they might have used lcd if it was available in the 1970's

in my opinion lcd's still are'nt where they need to be, they're getting much better then say 8 or 9 years ago but anyway the point is they did'nt.. so if you want authentic get a arcade CRT, a tv would be a second choice.

lcd's dont handle scalling very well.. so those arcade producers would need to decide on a specific resolution for all games to look decent.

would they have used lcd.. maybe but crt can hande a wider range of resolutions with good quality in each, in this aspect the crt is actually superior in it's flexibility.

you can get those sharp blocky graphics on a CRT, just turn d3dfilter to 0, that will stop the blurring, or turn up prescaling.

thats not really authentic though.. sure you are seeing the graphics as they designed, but thats not how your eye's first experienced them..

the scan lines on a arcade monitor play an important role in smoothing out the image, yes blocky graphics still look blocky in the arcade but they look better with the scan lines breaking the image up ever so slightly.

the closest you can come on a vga/lcd is using scan lines to artificially insert those dark bands across the screen.. while this is better then nothing still is not authentic in it's look.

this is a matter of taste though.. if you prefer sharp blocky graphics then go with vga or lcd.

if you want the authentic look then go with an arcade monitor, if you can't afford or find a arcade monitor the older crt tv's are'nt bad i can live with a tv and they're free or cheap to get until the supply of them dry's up since they're quickly dropping production on them.

if we have this conversation in 10 years (probably closer to 5) im guessing it's not gonna be"what should i get, crt or lcd?" it's gonnna be "what size wide screen lcd can i fit in X x W"

yes it's bad enough that crt is dying to add insult to injury the 4.3 lcd has already died.. leaving us with 16.9 and 16.10 lcd's as the only real display technology on teh board right now.. oh except plasma (they sitll making those?) but we're not really any better off with those.

it really makes me ill how widescreen has invaded everything.. and not just because it's so "superior" no, WS lcd's are cheaper to produce in any givin size, this is because they measure diagonally so  a 19 inch 16.9/16.10 has a lot less surface area then a 19 inch 4.3

but they can say wow im getting a 19 inch monitor for x dollars, and this other one 19inch (4.3) is like a 100 dollars more..

people buy the cheaper ws, soon the 4.3's loose favor because of their price and then we're stuck with crappy wide screens on computers which btw are used for reading a lot of the time.. so why you wanna shrink it's vertical height is beyond me.

i suppose it's better if you want to watch a ws movie.. on the other hand a computers primary job in most cases is not to sit and play movies.

and what they dont tell you is ws cuts the move vertically.. just like a fs cuts it horizontally.

go ahead and watch some movies that are in fs and ws, you'll see the difference, yes you gain some on the left and right with WS but you also lose some at the top and bottom of the screen over FS.

directors when they are shooting a movie have a monitor that shows both aspects with a overlay.. they keep the action in the center so that in most cases neither format will loose the important parts of the movie.

im sad to see 4.3 die on tv's.. but it really makes me ill when they have pretty much killed computer monitors.. my 21inch crt died, i need a 24.. really closer to a 26 inch ws get that same 4x3 area..

it would'nt be so bad if 4x3 lcd's was also available but they're becoming difficult to find especially above 19 inch.. there are a few still being made up to about 30 inch.. but they also cost several 1000 dollars last i checked.

 :soapbox:

sorry for the rant, but the subject truly makes me pissed, especially when i know theres nothing i can do about it.
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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2009, 04:50:57 pm »
Can a widescreen LCD be used without all the stretching going on?  Can it produce a 640x480 without stretching?  If so, they are the most common (lowest price) and then I can just make a bezel to fit the viewing part of the screen....

What size widescreen LCD is needed to replicate a 19"  4:3 format....

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2009, 04:56:33 pm »
Most of you playing horizontal games on a vertical monitor anyway and getting pillar boxes on the sides of the screen.  I don't really see the HUGE detractor in pillar boxing 4:3 on a 16:9.  You could get some decorative art for MAME to generate and put to fill up the sides.

Though I admit that that won't work if you want to feel of an authentic 80's machine.

However arcade gaming is progressing forward and using 16:9 pretty commonly now.  Eventually (Okay in like 5-10 years, but still) MAME will be running 16:9 games and stuff.

Blanka

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2009, 05:54:40 pm »
thats not really authentic though.. sure you are seeing the graphics as they designed, but thats not how your eye's first experienced them..
That's irrelevant for me, and maybe for others too, as I only ran them on MAME, and the first time I booted MAME, it was on a 1280x960 pixel CRT. So there is no blurry, stinky, scanlined, smokey Pac-Man in my brain. It has been there forever in bright, crisp, blocky graphics, and it is great that way. LCD only enhanced that image. In the end it's about the game. Same with sound. Pac-Man wakkawakka and DK stomping sounds excellent on 2x100 watt stereo speakers! Never heard it on the "authentic" 5 watt PC beeper speaker.

Blanka

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2009, 05:58:50 pm »
Which makes me think that within a few years, 4:3 LCD graphics are relative authentic, as soon 99% of our kids will either play Pac-Man 16:9 widescreen-stretched with 5.1 sound as Wii-download, or thinks Pac-Man has always been a touch-screen controlled 3 inch mobile-phone game.

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2009, 05:59:40 pm »
thats not really authentic though.. sure you are seeing the graphics as they designed, but thats not how your eye's first experienced them..
That's irrelevant for me, and maybe for others too, as I only ran them on MAME, and the first time I booted MAME, it was on a 1280x960 pixel CRT. So there is no blurry, stinky, scanlined, smokey Pac-Man in my brain. It has been there forever in bright, crisp, blocky graphics, and it is great that way. LCD only enhanced that image. In the end it's about the game. Same with sound. Pac-Man wakkawakka and DK stomping sounds excellent on 2x100 watt stereo speakers! Never heard it on the "authentic" 5 watt PC beeper speaker.

Have you seen it yet on a proper CRT?  It isn't blurry or blocky. Looks great!!
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


GaryMcT

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2009, 06:06:09 pm »
Which makes me think that within a few years, 4:3 LCD graphics are relative authentic, as soon 99% of our kids will either play Pac-Man 16:9 widescreen-stretched with 5.1 sound as Wii-download, or thinks Pac-Man has always been a touch-screen controlled 3 inch mobile-phone game.

Reminds me of people referring to the control scheme on some iPhones games as the "Geometry Wars" control scheme.  Ugh. :)
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Blanka

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2009, 06:06:22 pm »
I've seen most classics at Darth Nuno's Lair, but I have to say, on my wide gamut 26 LCD the games look better. Hit me, I don't mind :). I'm a huge fan of pixel art, and with pixel art, pixels should look square :D. I consider old games being examples of the very best pixel art.

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2009, 06:09:15 pm »
I've seen most classics at Darth Nuno's Lair, but I have to say, on my wide gamut 26 LCD the games look better. Hit me, I don't mind :). I'm a huge fan of pixel art, and with pixel art, pixels should look square :D. I consider old games being examples of the very best pixel art.

Nothing wrong with that!  We all like to see different things.
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


Applekid

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2009, 06:39:38 pm »
Given that people have faithfully recreated the "flaws" of NTSC to emulate home console games accurately on today's displays (check out http://www.fly.net/~ant/libs/ntsc.html), it's only a matter of time before MAME integrates "CRT Mode" for video output, taking advantage of the LCD of that day with 8,000 x 6,000 native resolutions.  :cheers:

And for actual games? I'm sure someone could make a converter box that takes regular old harness video and accurately upsamples to simulate that classic look. (not like that horrible D3D upsampling, yuck!)

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2009, 06:43:14 pm »
Given that people have faithfully recreated the "flaws" of NTSC to emulate home console games accurately on today's displays (check out http://www.fly.net/~ant/libs/ntsc.html), it's only a matter of time before MAME integrates "CRT Mode" for video output, taking advantage of the LCD of that day with 8,000 x 6,000 native resolutions.  :cheers:

And for actual games? I'm sure someone could make a converter box that takes regular old harness video and accurately upsamples to simulate that classic look. (not like that horrible D3D upsampling, yuck!)

As soon as I get the time, I'm going to work on CRT emulation and better vector emulation for Mame.
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2009, 06:47:27 pm »
Given that people have faithfully recreated the "flaws" of NTSC to emulate home console games accurately on today's displays (check out http://www.fly.net/~ant/libs/ntsc.html), it's only a matter of time before MAME integrates "CRT Mode" for video output, taking advantage of the LCD of that day with 8,000 x 6,000 native resolutions.  :cheers:

Dear GOD.  Some one is actually PURPOSEFULLY trying to emulate composite dot crawl and color bleed???

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2009, 06:50:24 pm »
Given that people have faithfully recreated the "flaws" of NTSC to emulate home console games accurately on today's displays (check out http://www.fly.net/~ant/libs/ntsc.html), it's only a matter of time before MAME integrates "CRT Mode" for video output, taking advantage of the LCD of that day with 8,000 x 6,000 native resolutions.  :cheers:

Dear GOD.  Some one is actually PURPOSEFULLY trying to emulate composite dot crawl and color bleed???

The only part that I want to emulate is the shape/falloff of the pixels, the shadow mask, etc.
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


DJ_Izumi

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2009, 06:54:10 pm »
The only part that I want to emulate is the shape/falloff of the pixels, the shadow mask, etc.

It seems his goal isn't really CRT emulation but crappy analog signal emulation.  I mean, that composite dot crawl would look teh same on a CRT or an LCD.  (Maybe more apparent on a higher res LCD)

http://blargg.fileave.com/ntsc-presets/

Looking at this grid, the only 'CRT Emulation' is just generic 'add scanlines! Woo!'.  Though I am impressed at the effort he's made at emulating low quality signals, I just don't see the real BENIFIT.  I'd rather get S-Video out of a NES then composite for example.  I'm getting component video cables for my Xbox's to use on 27" Sony Trinitron CRTs just to get a clearer signal, even if it's still low def 480i!

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2009, 06:58:09 pm »
Hmm, might have to start working on this. . I have a Wells Gardner D9500 sitting right next to my LCD with multimon for comparison purposes. :)
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2009, 07:01:40 pm »
Hmm, might have to start working on this. . I have a Wells Gardner D9500 sitting right next to my LCD with multimon for comparison purposes. :)

If you ask me, composite makes anything look worse.  Component, even on standard def CRTs is vastly better, it's nice, clear and sharp, like looking at an 15khz arcade monitor over RGB.  One of the main reasons I go with component or at least S-Video on a TV if I can for my gaming events.  They even make S-Video cables still available in stores that work on the SNES.  (And N64 and GameCube)

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2009, 07:06:23 pm »
The arcade monitor look is definitely what I will go for.  When I was playing 2600 as a kid, I wished that it would look like an arcade game. :)
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com


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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2009, 07:14:15 pm »
The arcade monitor look is definitely what I will go for.  When I was playing 2600 as a kid, I wished that it would look like an arcade game. :)

Myself, I don't have room for cabs and settle on TVs.  I also need portability as me and others do gaming events at anime cons and stuff.  Right now I'm working on a setup for Outrun 2 using the Xbox.  I'm getting a pair of 27" Sony Trinitrons made in the last 8-6 years all with component video input.  YPbPr 480i component isn't as good as RGB 480i component on a technical level but I'm pretty certian that 99 out of 100 people couldn't tell the difference if they were side by side.  It's as close to an arcade quality signal as I can get and I say it does pretty good.  The setup will be two TVs side by side, matched pair of racing wheels with shifters and pedals and of course two networked copies of Outrun 2.  Even little 11"x4.25" marquees to be printed up and sit atop each television: http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh100/AshleyAshes2/Outrun2Marquee.jpg

Basicly, as close to having a racing cab as you can get without actually building a cab.

High quality video input is also a concern.  Especially as the LARGER the TV the more apparent that video artifacts, particularly from composite video becomes apparent.

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Re: CRT vs LCD...
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2009, 07:33:34 pm »
Started a new thread over here for my Mame CRT emulation project:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=96041.0
My blog on learning how to develop FPGA versions of arcade boards: http://garymct.blogspot.com