Jukebox on a cab's secondary touchscreen monitor

[Invincer]

There are some jukeboxes which of course work with touchscreen monitors; but what (if any) are some that work with the touchscreen being the secondary monitor? I would like the touchscreen controls on the secondary, while the bigger primary monitor display album, lyrics, or something like that...

[Space Fractal]

In my own software, which is single monitor based, you can start MultiFE up on any monitor you want, howover its single monitor based and not dual.

Uncle'T Jukebox and E-TOuch is Dual monitor based, but not sure it can been used in swapped state, howover it should been easy to ask the authous to do that feature.

[unclet]

My software supports dual monitors but the primary monitor has the controls.  The secondary monitor is used to show the videos, lyrics, or album cover of the currently playing song.

Most people do not have dual monitors so designing a jukebox application to allow the most fundamental controls to be located on the secondary monitor instead of the primary was not worth the effort in my opinion.

[Barry Barcrest]

You can easilly make the touchscreen the primary in windows display settings and your problem will be solved then. Is there a specific reason you are using the other screen as the primary?

[richms]

Probably fullscreen video cloning, since that will only take the video off the primary and scale it to the secondary monitor.

[Invincer]

Well I pretty much solved the primary/secondary problem by using an AHK script with DisplayFusionPro running. The jukebox can start up on the big main screen, then seconds later automatically moves to the 7" touchscreen. Unfortunately, finding all of what I want in a "jukebox" software is proving WAY more difficult than even choosing my gaming frontend was...

It needs to have big buttons for touchscreen. Lyrics on 2nd monitor for regular MP3s (like minilyrics is fine), dancing visuals on 2nd monitor (preferably behind the lyrics. Karaoke files, if it can output to a BetaBrite sign the song would be great too (thought freebox could, but it somehow messes up the sign so badly you have to do a reset after exiting the jukebox before you can even use the sign in anything else!). It also needs to be able to play music videos. Silverjuke is close, but I can't find a skin I would "really" consider decent for small touchscreens and it doesn't support any kind of video. Another issue, I am running Windows XP 64-bit, and in testing some software won't even allow me to test it because it is 32-bit only (VMJ comes to mind with this issue for one)...

I am going to try Xlobby, and I look forward to trying Jukebox Jockey when it is released. Maybe when the HyperSpin Wall of Music is released it will handle it all since I am using HyperSpin as my gaming frontend and that would be awesome, but it is a long ways out from completion from what I have read...

Anybody else with any ideas? Many say they are good for touchscreens but most that say that are really not because the buttons are way too small.

[unclet]

My software supports dual monitors, has the ability to display lyrics/dancing visuals on the 2nd monitor (not at the same time though) and plays videos (WMP engine).   As for CDG Karaoke files, there is no specific logic for this in my jukebox, but if you can get a CDG Karaoke file to work through WMP outside of my application, then my jukebox software should be able to play the same CDG file. 

I use an ELO 19" touchscreen display for my jukebox software and the button size is fine for me.  Are you trying to run a jukebox display on a 7 inch touchscreen?  If so, then I think any buttons would be small, but perhaps I am misreading you post above.

[Fordman]

Sounds like your going to have a tough time finding something you want with a 7" touchscreen. 7" is a bit too small for mame & jukebox applications outside of a car. Any male that is of 16 yrs or older will need bigger buttons because the average male hand size for all the buttons most jukebox applications needs are appropriately sized. Now if its for females, then they have some scronny fingers.

I guess your trying to have an all-in one type of set-up but at some point, your going to have to stop the jukebox software, go back to the front-end, select your mame-game then after your done there, go back to the front end, relaunch the jukebox software again to play music. I understand you wanting an all-in-one setup but your going to have to get a bigger touchscreen.

7" Touchscreen. Sounds like a bad porno flick! 

Fordman

[orion]

Just designing the layout for a fully functional jukebox program to run on a 7 inch touch screen would be a tall order. You would only be able to layout a minimum number of controls per page and would have to have quite a few pages to jump to. If not done well it could get quite confusing and clunky rather quickly. I suppose you could make one page for controls (play, stop, ect.) another for your music library, and a separate one for your playlist/ now playing list and so on. Actually, I would think you would have to lay it out similar to a high end remote control such as a Phillips pronto or an AMX or Crestron unit. You might want to take a look at some of the users files at http://www.remotecentral.com/ for inspiration. It is quite possible to do something like this (even create a Mame front end) with a program such as Xlobby or even XBMC, but your going to have to put in a lot of work into programming the thing. As a matter of fact, for what you are doing with that 7 inch monitor, I would venture to say that this is probably going to be your only option. Sounds like it will be cool though once you get it done.

[Space Fractal]

Best would been designing a skin in 640x480 resolution or such which would been suitable for a smaller touchscreen. Some of the bigger software (including E-Touch etc) would been nice to have a lowy resoulution skin too.

My own software is designed in a diffecent market and is think not designed for the dual screen cab like this. Arcade Music Box have dual screen, but no touchscreen, MultiFE is only single screen based.

 

[Barry Barcrest]

Sounds like you are looking for a bespoke solution, good luck with that. Sorry i coud'nt help you.

[rEd86]

Sounds like your going to have a tough time finding something you want with a 7" touchscreen. 7" is a bit too small for mame & jukebox applications outside of a car.

Just designing the layout for a fully functional jukebox program to run on a 7 inch touch screen would be a tall order. You would only be able to layout a minimum number of controls per page and would have to have quite a few pages to jump to. If not done well it could get quite confusing and clunky rather quickly.

I have to respectfully disagree.  No, it's not going to be easy and the software might not yet exist with features that allow you to implement it well, but the screen size isn't the issue.  It's bigger than an iTouch/iPhone screen (which is only 480-by-320-pixel resolution at 163 ppi ) and look at all that's capable of doing.  Obviously Apple did some cool things to accommodate touch and the "finger flick", but there's no reason that type of support couldn't be built into any touchscreen application - regardless of the screen size.

--Ed

[alex_hawpond]

This is exactly what I'm looking for as well. The cabinet for my jukebox is going to be the cabinet from a 1952 television (you can see one here: http://www.bertinot.com/tv/17k11c.htm ). The UI will be a touchscreen mounted inside, under the top, which will be hinged. A second LCD will be where the TV picture used to be. Ideally, some sort of visualization would be shown here.

If I can't find anything that will do this, I suppose I could just show the UI in both monitors, or set up the second monitor to show randomly-selected MPG's, just for eye-candy. My first step will be modification of the cabinet to hinge the top, as well as the overall cosmetic restoration. Selection of a software package will not be for a long while.

--Alex

[Barry Barcrest]

Sounds like your going to have a tough time finding something you want with a 7" touchscreen. 7" is a bit too small for mame & jukebox applications outside of a car.

Just designing the layout for a fully functional jukebox program to run on a 7 inch touch screen would be a tall order. You would only be able to layout a minimum number of controls per page and would have to have quite a few pages to jump to. If not done well it could get quite confusing and clunky rather quickly.

I have to respectfully disagree.  No, it's not going to be easy and the software might not yet exist with features that allow you to implement it well, but the screen size isn't the issue.  It's bigger than an iTouch/iPhone screen (which is only 480-by-320-pixel resolution at 163 ppi ) and look at all that's capable of doing.  Obviously Apple did some cool things to accommodate touch and the "finger flick", but there's no reason that type of support couldn't be built into any touchscreen application - regardless of the screen size.

--Ed

Apple use multi touch, you will need windows 7 for that. it's not actually released yet so i doubt anyone has coded a jukebox application for it. If what you say is so easy you can make  a skin for one of the many skinable applications out there to work with your 7" screen.

[rEd86]

Did you read my post?  I said it's not going to be easy and will require some enhancements from the juke box developers to make it really functional.  Yes, Apple uses multitouch but a good touch screen control panel for a jukebox doesn't need multitouch.

Sure, a reasonable skin can be made with the existing systems that would work OK, but you're missing what I was saying. The point is that it's NOT the screen size that's the limiting factor, but the interface options available in jukebox software as well as multi-screen support.  This isn't a knock on the developers since I'm sure it's not a common request or something that was thought of.  As with any software, things evolve over time and if you step back and think of this as a UI issue and NOT a screen size issue, some cool stuff could come from it.

--Ed

[orion]

Did you read my post?  I said it's not going to be easy and will require some enhancements from the juke box developers to make it really functional.  Yes, Apple uses multitouch but a good touch screen control panel for a jukebox doesn't need multitouch.

Sure, a reasonable skin can be made with the existing systems that would work OK, but you're missing what I was saying. The point is that it's NOT the screen size that's the limiting factor, but the interface options available in jukebox software as well as multi-screen support.  This isn't a knock on the developers since I'm sure it's not a common request or something that was thought of.  As with any software, things evolve over time and if you step back and think of this as a UI issue and NOT a screen size issue, some cool stuff could come from it.

--Ed

Right and I never said that you can't use a seven inch touchscreen for a jukebox, just that nothing has been created for one specifically yet. That's also why I recommend looking at  touchscreen remote control skins for ideas on how to implement it, as those are already laid out for small touchscreens and they do a quite a good job working with the real estate available on a smaller screen. Sounds to me though like you are expecting a developer to come along and create an application just for this use. They might one day, however I would consider this unlikely at the moment as not many people are making touchscreen jukeboxes with small monitors. I would think that those builds would remain kind of rare as they are expensive and most folks choose to build around an ELO. Why do you expect the developers to start creating custom front ends for people anyway? That's not what they are about, they couldn't possibly have the time to do that for everyone. Perhaps you don't but that's what it seems to me that you are getting at. I didn't expect that, with respect to Barry his software didn't quite meet my needs, but it would have been uncool of me to start bugging him for specific features that fell out of the scope of what his software is supposed to be just to accommodate me. The only solution I had available was to go out and use existing software that I could modify to suit my needs. My problem... my solution, my customised software.

[rEd86]

I am sorry the intention of my post was not clear and taken as confrontational.  That was not my goal. I am only trying to open constructive dialog to help advance the development of the jukebox apps.  As a developer, I always found it useful to get input/feedback from the community.  Ultimately it's up to them to take any discussions and choose what to incorporate into their systems.  Obviously it's a lot of hard work and I too appreciate what they have done for this hobby.  So thank you developers. 

I never said that any special features should be added specifically for small touch screens. (although I can see how that might have been misunderstood) I agree, that audience is too small and while nice, isn't where development efforts should be placed.  I just think that it is possible to incorporate certain features into the UI that would benefit EVERYONE.

--Ed

[orion]

I am sorry the intention of my post was not clear and taken as confrontational.  That was not my goal. I am only trying to open constructive dialog to help advance the development of the jukebox apps.  As a developer, I always found it useful to get input/feedback from the community.  Ultimately it's up to them to take any discussions and choose what to incorporate into their systems.  Obviously it's a lot of hard work and I too appreciate what they have done for this hobby.  So thank you developers. 

I never said that any special features should be added specifically for small touch screens. (although I can see how that might have been misunderstood) I agree, that audience is too small and while nice, isn't where development efforts should be placed.  I just think that it is possible to incorporate certain features into the UI that would benefit EVERYONE.

--Ed

Cool, no confrontation taken then!    I understand the need for feedback and suggestions for features (multi screen support seems like a good suggestion for some of the software out there that doesn't support it). The original poster though has some pretty specific requirements, that he isn't going to find all in one program, which means he is going to have to live without some of the things he wants or get creative and develop some things on his own (hopefully he will be able to find some help along the way with this) I hope he figures some things out as it sounds like he has a pretty unique and and ambitious project under way. To that end he mentioned trying Xlobby. I found a skin that might just work for him, with the 7 inch touchscreen part. However it looks like it was written for Xlobby V3 not the free version and it looks like the resolution of it might be a bit high. It has nice big buttons though and seems to be laid out well for use on a small screen. If it dosen't work straight away, at least it might prove to be a good starting point for this project. http://www.xlobby.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6703

[Invincer]

Wow, I had to go to the Mayo Clinic for a week and when I get back to check this forum I was a bit surprised at all the responses.

I realize I may have to divide up what I want into seperate programs for all of what I want, I realize that now. I am going to check out what Xlobby can do today. Otherwise, with a bit of tweaking, I think I may end up going with Silverjuke. With it, I can use the kiosk touchscreen on my secondary monitor with the minilyrics, karaoke, milkdrop effects etc on the big regular primary monitor. Most of the jukeboxes don't give the options of what to display on which monitor, silverjuke does. There is a skin which resizes to whatever the resolution is that you want and is made for big touchscreen button fingers at http://www.silverjuke.net/forum/topic-2968.html . It may not have many options on it but if anything other than basic choosing needs to be done, a right click can do it. It isn't perfect, but closer than most of what is out there. I will just have to use something else for music videos since Silverjuke does not support video and I don't see a Betabrite support anywhere for Silverjuke or even Winamp. Maybe I can find someone that knows how to make a plug-in for sending song title and singer to the sign in Silverjuke.


I had wanted freebox/e-touch to work which Barry has; but there were too many problems. I had to use other software to make it use the correct monitor since it did not let me choose, it did not support lyrics unless the song was specifically Karaoke, the resolution problems are huge as a different skin is needed for every resolution (when I tried full screen it does not stretch like other software programs so part of the skin hung off the screen unless the skin was the perfect resolution) and the main draw that seemed unique was the betabrite support which was worthless and still makes me wonder what the heck was going on. If you used the betabrite suppport, the sign completely stopped working on every other software after exiting the jukebox unless you download other software to reset the sign to factory defaults. You would have to do a hard reset EVERY TIME you exit the jukebox! Maybe if the resolution issues were addressed and the Betabrite bugs were fixes I would revisit using it for music videos, but Barry seems to be fine with the way it works now and for most of his customers, that may work fine.

[Fordman]

I had wanted freebox/e-touch to work which Barry has; but there were too many problems. I had to use other software to make it use the correct monitor since it did not let me choose, it did not support lyrics unless the song was specifically Karaoke, the resolution problems are huge as a different skin is needed for every resolution (when I tried full screen it does not stretch like other software programs so part of the skin hung off the screen unless the skin was the perfect resolution) and the main draw that seemed unique was the betabrite support which was worthless and still makes me wonder what the heck was going on. If you used the betabrite suppport, the sign completely stopped working on every other software after exiting the jukebox unless you download other software to reset the sign to factory defaults. You would have to do a hard reset EVERY TIME you exit the jukebox! Maybe if the resolution issues were addressed and the Betabrite bugs were fixes I would revisit using it for music videos, but Barry seems to be fine with the way it works now and for most of his customers, that may work fine.

ALL Jukebox software is a 'Work in Progress', that is why there are updates. As there are bugs found and reported, they're fixed usually in a short period of time. Barry (E-Touch), Uncle T and SpaceFractal seem to update their's quite abit for users. Adding new features and squashing bugs is a task that takes time to code.

As for the Betabrite, if I remember correctly, you have an 'All-In-One' MAME-Jukebox setup. Very Very few have Betabrite's attached to their MAME cabs. I've only seen less than maybe 6 on BYOAC but there may be more. The Betabrite on a jukebox is more of a dedicated item for the jukebox as the info changes every 3-5 minuts vs a MAME cab where the same info could flash-scroll-fade for hours, if not days without changes. With E-Touch, the Betabrite displays the info for the current song and if one isnt playing, then the Betabrite goes into screen saver mode, to save your LED's from burning out! Usually the red LED's go first in Betabrites, dont know why, but after research, usually the reds go first. I would rather my Betabrite be in screensaver mode vs flashing for days a MAME rom title while the MAME cab sits idle.

Just this one man opionion!

 

Fordman

[Invincer]

Just as an FYI, finally got that all-in-one solution I was looking for. May not be perfect, but it's as close as I could find so far...

[youtube]pqIIkg8gVzk[/youtube]

With some custom settings in Hyperlaunch.ahk, got the Silverjuke Jukebox running in Hyperspin. The small touchscreen gets the kiosk controls, while the minilyrics text outputs to the big screen during songs with Milkdrop dancing lights behind the lyrics. The song artist and name get output to the Betabrite sign on top of the Cab. It's pretty cool actually, the Minilyrics automatically download and display the playing song's lyrics from the Internet just like Silverjuke downloads album covers. You can also hook up a microphone to the cab and sing along with the regular singer (to me that is better than regular Karaoke because the regular Artist can make a bad singer sound better or not so bad, plus the mike volume portion can be turned up or down, but I digress).

Silverjuke isn't perfect, but I think it is the best option available for people with a cab who want to be able to run it in a frontend like Hyperspin. The touchscreen template is a bit small and I ran into many other issues setting this up, but no other Jukebox software out there would come close to giving me all the functionality I was looking for.

Support for touchscreen as secondary monitor (mediocre touchscreen templte is better than none at all), Betabrite sign output, Milkdrop effects on the big screen, lyrics on the big screen, karaoke and microphone support, integration with Hyperspin. Hopefully music video support will be available in the future too as I have read on their forums

One big issue is it won't exit from the program the way it should in use with Cabs. Escape key is not mappable and can't get it to work yet even through Hyperlaunch.ahk... tried everything I can think of, including mapping F11 to escape and the silverjuke.exe --execute="program.shutdown(30)" recommendations in the forums, nothing seems to work... I am open to any ideas....... Whaddaya think?

[rEd86]

Very nice.  I am glad you were able to figure out a way to make this work - ESPECIALLY after all the troubles you had in getting your arcade system built.

--Ed

[orion]

That came out really well! The small touch screen seems laid out pretty well with that program. I like it!

[Invincer]

A forum member at the Silverjuke forums sent me a dll which sends an abort signal to the Silverjuke jukebox, now it should be able to exit from the escape key and go back to Hyperspin. Also they told me how to make 10 images appear instead of the max of 8 that was in the video. I will test it tonight when i get home from work and may repost the video then.