Incandescent bulb vs Compact Fluorescent some basic questions

[Dr Zero]

Now let me preface this by saying I know there are other options like LED what I'm really wanting to about is CFL.

The big push is to go green and such there is not many regular bulbs around but I have some questions.

You have a socket that is rated for a 60 watt bulb if I understand why its because of the heat generated by the 60 watt bulb. The 60 watt sockets are generally made of better/heavier materials.

Now with CFL only using like 15 watts and putting out the equivalent of 60 does the rating of the socket kind of become a moot point?

I mean if the socket is rated for 40 watts could you use a 60 watt CFL without issues?

Or for that what about a 100 watt equivalent CFL? As long as you keep the over all real used watts under the rating of the socket would you be ok?

So what does everyone think?

[ahofle]

I will answer this based on my own personal experience.  A while back I used the exact same logic as you and put a 100 watt 'equivalent' CFL in a 60W max ceiling socket (the ones that have two sockets in the same fixture).  Well a while went by and for some reason I had to take off the fixture and to my horror the insulation on the wires of the neighboring light socket was almost completely corroded off, exposing bare wire in a couple spots.  I'm lucky it didn't cause a fire.  So I think the rating is based on heat as much as anything.  Be careful!

[Ginsu Victim]

The big push is to go green and such there is not many regular bulbs around but I have some questions.

Buy 'em up now, because come 2012, you can't buy the incandescent bulbs in the US anymore. Stupid "go green" ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---....

[MonMotha]

In general, there are two reasons for the ratings on lamp fixtures.  One is how much electrical power can be safely delivered to the socket.  This is usually not a big deal.  The other is due to heat generation.  This is often a big deal.  A 60W light bulb gets REALLY hot.

If you're putting a CFL into a fixture that says "60W max", you can put an actual 60W CFL in there if you want to (and it'll be REALLY bright compared to what you had before).  This doesn't mean a 60W "equivalent" (13W lamp) device, but an actual 60W device.  A 60W CFL will have brightness comparable to like a 250W incandescent.

I actually did this in a bathroom/dressing area fixture.  The fixture originally had a 60W spot lamp in it, and the fixture was only rated for 60W.  However, that wasn't enough light, so I installed a full spectrum 23W (100W equivalent) CFL.  Lots more light and uses less electricity to boot!

[EwJ]

The big push is to go green and such there is not many regular bulbs around but I have some questions.

Buy 'em up now, because come 2012, you can't buy the incandescent bulbs in the US anymore. Stupid "go green" ---smurf-poop---....

Go green ---my bottom---.  CFL have mercury, no?

[Ken Layton]

Buy 'em up now, because come 2012, you can't buy the incandescent bulbs in the US anymore. Stupid "go green" ---smurf-poop---....

That only applies to incandescent light bulbs commonly used in household light fixtures and it applies to 40 watts and up bulb sizes. Special application incandescents, miniature lamps, audio-visual "projection" lamps, germicidal & hospital lamps, etc are exempt.

[DJ_Izumi]

Now let me preface this by saying I know there are other options like LED what I'm really wanting to about is CFL.

The big push is to go green and such there is not many regular bulbs around but I have some questions.

You have a socket that is rated for a 60 watt bulb if I understand why its because of the heat generated by the 60 watt bulb. The 60 watt sockets are generally made of better/heavier materials.

Now with CFL only using like 15 watts and putting out the equivalent of 60 does the rating of the socket kind of become a moot point?

I mean if the socket is rated for 40 watts could you use a 60 watt CFL without issues?

Or for that what about a 100 watt equivalent CFL? As long as you keep the over all real used watts under the rating of the socket would you be ok?

So what does everyone think?

Yes it's safe.  The '60w' rating is related to the electrical wireing and the casing.  A 100w light could draw more power causing wires to melt or causing whatever fixture it's in to burn or melt.  CFLs are much lower wattage and produce far less heat.  That's actually why CFLs are more power efficent. Incandescent bulbs generate a LOT of heat and light in outside of the human visual spectrum.  It's wasted.  A CFL uses less energy to get the same level of light output by not spewing out energy into useless forms.

So yes, you could put a CFL that's 'equal to 100w' in a 60w socket and it would be perfectly safe. It's still only a 20w device.  Just make sure the CFL physically fits inside because sometimes they are larger or longer than normal bulbs.

[Ginsu Victim]

Buy 'em up now, because come 2012, you can't buy the incandescent bulbs in the US anymore. Stupid "go green" ---smurf-poop---....

That only applies to incandescent light bulbs commonly used in household light fixtures and it applies to 40 watts and up bulb sizes. Special application incandescents, miniature lamps, audio-visual "projection" lamps, germicidal & hospital lamps, etc are exempt.

I figured there would be a few caveats, but I'm still mad about it.

[SavannahLion]

Just to nitpick on a minor detail. The whole watt equivalency thing to describe lumens is an astonishing amount of marketing ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. It's bad but tolerable with the incandescents, but it's near insane with the CFL manufacturers. Those marketing ---uvulas--- completely changed the definition to shove CFL's down ours and the moronic lawmakers throats.

[Beretta]

unless you want heat go with a compact fluorescent, they put out a lot less heat and a lot more light..

as was pointed out they're roughly 4x brighter at equal wattage, so a 13-15ish is just as good as a 60watt incandescent, it is'nt wasting so much energy in the form of energy (typo) HEAT.

i had not heard of them banning? incandescents?

that sucks!, the fact that they put out heat makes them ideal in some situations.. IE: cheap heat source to keep humidity down in gun safes, or keeping water pipes from freezing.

and it's not like fluorescent are so mother earth friendly, they DO have mercury last i knew, so then they'll MANDATE recycling 

hav'nt these fools heard of LED? if they REALLY wanted to go "green" they last so much longer, take a lot less energy, and clearly have no mercury.

[DJ_Izumi]

Just to nitpick on a minor detail. The whole watt equivalency thing to describe lumens is an astonishing amount of marketing ---smurf-poop---. It's bad but tolerable with the incandescents, but it's near insane with the CFL manufacturers. Those marketing ---uvulas--- completely changed the definition to shove CFL's down ours and the moronic lawmakers throats.

Light bulbs were always marketed to the consumer by wattage.  So to tell the consumer that the bulb is equal in light to the 60w incandescent light they've always been while only consuming 13w of power, they had to say JUST THAT.  What if CFLs were marketed by lumens instead?  'So, how many 60w lightbulbs is a lumen?" is what everyoen would be asking instead.

[SavannahLion]

Just to nitpick on a minor detail. The whole watt equivalency thing to describe lumens is an astonishing amount of marketing ---smurf-poop---. It's bad but tolerable with the incandescents, but it's near insane with the CFL manufacturers. Those marketing ---uvulas--- completely changed the definition to shove CFL's down ours and the moronic lawmakers throats.

Light bulbs were always marketed to the consumer by wattage.  So to tell the consumer that the bulb is equal in light to the 60w incandescent light they've always been while only consuming 13w of power, they had to say JUST THAT.  What if CFLs were marketed by lumens instead?  'So, how many 60w lightbulbs is a lumen?" is what everyoen would be asking instead.

You can't use wattage as a measurement of lumens. There's no straight corollary between the two values. We've switched to reduced wattage lighting (no thanks to Wal*mart) and the 57w 750 lumens bulb spanks the pants out of the 15w equivalent 60w 980 lumens CFL in terms of brightness.

I get that consumers need to know wattages because that's what they're used to. That is a type of mentality that must change. Take a look around at how CFL's are marketed in stores, all that effort to focus on Wattage could have been put forward educating the public about lumens. At least the GE Website makes what the bulb actually replaces a little bit more clear (instead of giving a so-called equivalency rating).

Oh well.... I have a sneaky suspicion that in about ten to twenty years, we're going to get a lot of pissed off collectors with faded artwork.

[Dr Zero]

Very good points made on this thread!

One thing since we are talking about characteristics different brands of incandescent even though same watt also have different lumen ratings and also can have a different color cast some give off a orangeish looking light.

And some fluorescent also come in different color temps and it can affect how your artwork and even you look under those lights.

[Ken Layton]

Look closely at the fine print on the packaging of these fluorescent lights. You'll see they are not supposed to be put in "enclosed" light fixtures because the electronic "ballast" inside the base of the light bulb will overheat and catch fire!

The next time the incandescent light bulb burns out in your refrigerator, try putting one of these fluorescent bulbs in it! It either won't start at all or will be very dim because of the cold temperatures. The same thing in the other direction when your light burns out in your oven. No way can that fluorescent light take 450 degrees of that oven, but a conventional incandescent bulb can.

I know several private pilots who use conventional 60 watt incandescent bulbs dangling by a single cord hanging near the instrument panel when the private plane is in the hangar. The reason is that it's a cheap (and safe) heater to keep the instruments from fogging up and from moisture condensing inside during cold weather.

[DJ_Izumi]

Incandescent bulbs are looking to be banned from HOUSEHOLD lighting use.  That is, anywhere you could use a CFL instead you'll have to.  There are situations where a CFL isn't practical and they'll be excempted.  Lighting is a major consumer of electricity and if that can be reduced by 75% for house hold lighting that would be a major savings.

There will still be uses for incandescent bulbs and they won't be banned outright.

[Endaar]

CFL have mercury, no?

Yes, they do. And the cleanup procedures are non trivial if you break one: http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/lighting/cfls/downloads/CFL_Cleanup_and_Disposal.pdf

The logic here escapes me. But hey, the government does such a good job regulating our light bulbs, let's put them in charge of something less important, like healthcare.

Endaar

[DJ_Izumi]

Because even if CFL's contain mercury, they don't contain a signifigant ammount.  50% of the global mercury output is produced by burning coal for power, you actually produce less mercury total by powering a CFL agianst powering an incandescent bulb in areas where the power is supplied primarily by burning coal.  CFLs make up for a fraction of the mercury production in the world, even if we entirely replace incandescent.  They're still better for the environment as a whole.

Standard fluorescents have been used in office buildings and schools for years due to their energy efficency.  They break, it happens, it's delt with, it's pretty trivial. 

[shardian]

I cannot use CFL's in 2 of my ceiling fans - even the super expensive "ceiling fan rated" CFL's. They flicker and/or buzz badly.

CFL's barely even fit in some of my enlosed lights - and I'm warned to not even use them in those!

I am also not paying $13 per bulb for dimmable CFL spots in my recessed basement lighting.

In general I have noticed the CFL's fail at a far higher rate than my good ol' cheap incandescents did.


I have a problem with the half-assed and hurried legislation on CFL's, but overall I think CFL's and LED could and should replace Incandescents. Incandescents should not be banned or anthing though.

[DJ_Izumi]

In general I have noticed the CFL's fail at a far higher rate than my good ol' cheap incandescents did.

I think you're doing something seriously wrong with your CFLs.  They typically last like 8 times longer than in incandescent.

[SavannahLion]

In general I have noticed the CFL's fail at a far higher rate than my good ol' cheap incandescents did.

I think you're doing something seriously wrong with your CFLs.  They typically last like 8 times longer than in incandescent.

9 according to the packaging I have. But yes, I agree with shardian, they do fail at a higher than normal rate. I think a large part of it is that in a typical incandescent application, they are placed into a position that CFL manufactures specifically tell you not to put CFLs in. Namely in a base up, bulb down position. Out of every light fixture in my house, a mere five do not have the bulb "upside down." Of those five, two are excluded by design due to their sealed glass enclosures (another thing CFL manufacturers recommend against), that leaves three fixtures out of an entire house that fall within the recommended usage guidelines of your typical CFL.

[shardian]

9 according to the packaging I have. But yes, I agree with shardian, they do fail at a higher than normal rate. I think a large part of it is that in a typical incandescent application, they are placed into a position that CFL manufactures specifically tell you not to put CFLs in. Namely in a base up, bulb down position. Out of every light fixture in my house, a mere five do not have the bulb "upside down." Of those five, two are excluded by design due to their sealed glass enclosures (another thing CFL manufacturers recommend against), that leaves three fixtures out of an entire house that fall within the recommended usage guidelines of your typical CFL.

Exactly - CFL's have an extremely limited usefulness. The only CFL I am truly happy with is the special one in my lamp post.

They fail most often in ceiling fans.

[protokatie]

They fail most often in ceiling fans.

I wonder if that is due to the electric noise caused by the fan motor. What next? A new law mandating two separate circuits for a ceiling fan? (One for lights and one for the fan motor).

I really do not see the logic in a law BANNING incandescents. Most people are buying cfls anyway, simply because they use less power, and often last much longer (except in certain circumstances). This is an obvious case of the government "meaning well" and "trying to do the 'right' thing".

Besides, if they make it tough for me to get light bulbs for my lava light, I will go columbine!

[Ginsu Victim]

I've considered stock-piling incandescents. I don't like the light CFLs put out (I also disagree with the so-called environmental aspect).

[mvsfan]

The big push is to go green and such there is not many regular bulbs around but I have some questions.

Buy 'em up now, because come 2012, you can't buy the incandescent bulbs in the US anymore. Stupid "go green" ---smurf-poop---....

good deal, brother. ALL flourescents have Mercury. Its one of the key ingredients that makes them "flouress".

although almost all flourescents being sold today are "low Mercury" and one way you can tell is because the ends are Green anodized aluminum,

They only contain about 50% less mercury. any manufacturer that claims otherwise is a liar.

the funny thing is, that the guidelines still allow you to throw green ended bulbs in the trash.

Kinda sad to say but ive worked for many electrical companies over the year. one of them had a very large percentage of their business in changing out bulbs in commercial buildings.

All of the silver ended ones they had to pay a recycling company about 60 bucks a case to get rid of,

and all of the green ended ones went in the trash.

Go green ---my bottom---.  CFL have mercury, no?

[mvsfan]

anyway my point was the greenies are being sold a lie because low mercury dont mean no mercury. Its only 50% less.

the result that ive seen anyways, and yes i will admit that this stuff is toxic, it does get into fish that we eat, etc etc.

the only result that has come of "green" bulbs is that just about all of the companies out there are really looking forward to the day when all of the silver ends have been changed out.

they are looking forward to the next time they need to relamp a building again and it already has green bulbs, so they dont have to pay mr. recycler to cart them off.

[mvsfan]

this isnt intended to be an anti environment statement either, its just reality.

with that said, I think green bulbs are a good thing. we do need less poisonous things out there. their was something i heard a lot about when i was growing up, one of the biggest federal superfund sites, the windsor road landfill off of sunrise boulevard in Fort lauderdale florida, was closed down in the early 1970s and nobody ever thought about it much. it was one of the few forgotten mountains in florida. (their arent any mountains or hills there except garbage its all flat land.)

anyways, it took a full generation and all of a sudden the households within a 10 mile radius started having Deformed or Retarted children in alarming numbers as well as they themselves getting sick. high rates of cancers and other maladies and such.

personally to this day i would dread if i lived anywhere near a landfill. its not just the garbage smell.

those folks had it really bad though. windsor road operated from 1955 long before the epa and when everything you wanted to get rid of was gladly accepted. To me, thats a scary proposition.

  The result of green bulbs is this. Eventually unless they close that loophole, eventually what it means is that only 50% of the mercury that would end up in the trash does end up there.

But if it makes you feel good to buy everything labeled green, i hope this is a nice wake up.

" i always vote independent cause i never agree with anyone"