Would you like a built-in rapid-fire option with an I-Pac Encoder????

[jhsmith321]

Hello! I started a discussion at the BYOAC forum, about how to add a Rapid-fire option to a keyboard encoder. The idea got many people interested; ?grafixmonkey? was really kind to post many diagrams of how he did accomplish this. I personally suck at electronics so I prefer to have this function built-in with the encoder, so I sent an email to Andy (creator of the I-Pac), asking if he was planning to add the option to his encoders in the near future. His answer was:
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?I was not planning to do this. It would be difficult to persuade me that this is a good feature to have. The object of MAME is to be able to run the original rom code as accurately as possible, so if the ROM does not have rapid fire built in, then I'm not sure adding it externally is a good idea because it changes the nature of the game from the original.

There are lots of other issues such as how fast and how much delay before it starts, and would it be a different button or the same as the normal fire button. It would be easy to implement this in MAME but I doubt that the MAME devs will consider it for the same reasons that I have just mentioned.

I could be convinced if enough people want it but I am a bit skeptical at the moment!?
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So I just would like to ask everyone if they would like such feature with the I-Pac?? and if so, what suggestions would you give to Andy about the delay of the repeated fire option, button config, etc?.?? If there are enough people interested with this, I could collect all the suggestions and comments and send them to Andy for his consideration. Thanks!!!!

[meta87]

Wouldn't this make alot of games easier than they were made to be?

Like shooters for instance?

[jhsmith321]

Wouldn't this make alot of games easier than they were made to be?

Like shooters for instance?

Well, yes, but you have to remember that this feature would be only and EXTRA OPTION, so if you do not like to cheat at the games, that is up to you, I personally like this feature because sometimes it gets very tedious to continuously press a single button for an hour or so, if you play as many shooter games, as I usually do, besides that when you get to the stage bosses you usually tend to fire even faster to beat the boss. This is just my opinion, but I am interested on hearing what other people think about this???.

[anthony691]

Wouldn't this make alot of games easier than they were made to be?

Like shooters for instance?

Well, yes, but you have to remember that this feature would be only and EXTRA OPTION, so if you do not like to cheat at the games, that is up to you, I personally like this feature because sometimes it gets very tedious to continuously press a single button for an hour or so, if you play as many shooter games, as I usually do, besides that when you get to the stage bosses you usually tend to fire even faster to beat the boss. This is just my opinion, but I am interested on hearing what other people think about this???.

If it adds < 7$ to the cost of the I-Pac it's fine. I don't really want it, but I wouldn't mind it.

[Apollo]

I don't think it should be added. You might as well say, please change the ROM so that I can be invincible in Galaga or speed up PacMan or something. I dunno it just gets away from the original too much. Just my 10c worth.

[jakejake28]

my opinion, spend this time praticing instead of trying to get people to cheat, much easir and cheaper...
 

[Zakk]

I'd have to side with Andy and the purists on this one, I can't see it being a useful addition.  I remember buying atari and later PC joysticks with the rapid fire option, and even though it sounds neat, I never used it.  Plus, as was pointed out, it changes the way the game is played.  Lastly, could you imagine the 4 player 8 button sticks with now an -extra- button for rapid fire for every player?  Whoo!  
Maybe you need a game-shark for mame instead

[Frostillicus]

I don't know - I'm not hip on the rapid-fire feature in mame...I like whapping the buttons as fast as possible in donpachi.   :)BUT, I'd be hip to a key repeat for other programs - like when you scroll through mp3s and stuff - it would sure be nice to just hold the joystick down to scroll.  If there was some way to turn that off when mame starts...that'd be cool.

[rampy]

not interested *shrug*

rampy

[Hoagie_one]

The arcade builders are not nessesarily for the purists only.  I say sell an add on chip and then people could then decide wheather they want it or not.

[grafixmonkey]

I think it would be better done as a standalone component that you can add to buttons individually.  In fact all three of those diagrams I posted would be most useful if they were each individual circuits.

(for example, the toggler can be used to toggle Shift on and off with a pushbutton, and the mux chip can be used to remap buttons without reprogramming or using an alternative config in the ipac)


It's funny, but I just did that because it was fun.  I have no plans to put rapid-fire in my cab.  I will be constructing a single-button toggle that flips between four different button/joystick mappings without shift though.  It's become necessary with my 4-player cab, since it has the joysticks that are ideal for different games all in different positions.  (Tron's on the far right, 4-way stick on the far left, street fighter 2 sticks in the two middle spots, top-fire button on the joystick has to be button 1 for Tron and trigger games, has to be not mapped at all for others...)

[Howard_Casto]

Rapid fire is stupid for mame purposes, cheat factore aside....  

Let me break it down for you (warning common sense ahead).  

What games would rapid fire actually be useful for?  

Shooters right?  

Ok think about it.... 99.9% of the shooters out there allow you to "charge" up your beam by holding down the fire button.  The ones that don't already have rapid fire built into the game (you hold down the button and the bullets start flying.)  

All other game types require precise timing of the button presses, so auto fire would actually hinder gameplay.  Punching fast might seem like a good idea, but when the fast punching makes you loose the ability to do your special attack then it becomes lame real fast.  

Inexperienced players who don't know about advanced moves use auto fire.  All others realize that it actually cripples the amount of moves you can do.   And this holds true in just about every genre, with every game in it.  

[MrBond]

Rapid fire is stupid for mame purposes, cheat factore aside....  

Let me break it down for you (warning common sense ahead).  

What games would rapid fire actually be useful for?  

Shooters right?  

Ok think about it.... 99.9% of the shooters out there allow you to "charge" up your beam by holding down the fire button.  The ones that don't already have rapid fire built into the game (you hold down the button and the bullets start flying.)  

All other game types require precise timing of the button presses, so auto fire would actually hinder gameplay.  Punching fast might seem like a good idea, but when the fast punching makes you loose the ability to do your special attack then it becomes lame real fast.  

Inexperienced players who don't know about advanced moves use auto fire.  All others realize that it actually cripples the amount of moves you can do.   And this holds true in just about every genre, with every game in it.  

Sheesh HC, tell it how it is  

I for one wouldn't mind the option, but I'm with the majority and don't really care to have it implemented.  My biggest concern would be that if I had autofire on, would I be able to turn it off easily/quickly during a game?

[grafixmonkey]

 

and already people have forgotten what the circuit that started the thread does...

it has a button you can slap that turns rapid fire on and off, and if you so desire, the button can be illuminated, and will light up when RF is on and not light when it's off.

and I know some games rapid-fire was nice for - Rygar for example, which probably nobody but me ever played, but I got a cart of that on my old NES and having rapid fire made the game a lot more enjoyable since the control and gameplay weren't all that well designed.  There's an arcade version, if I were gonna use RF in my cap I'd use it on that game.

[Lilwolf]

Rygar with rapid fire??? No!  Thats just down right cheating

And I LOVE that game!  One on my favorites list for sure!

[Hoagie_one]

side scroller games like metal slug\contra could sue some rapid fire

[Lilwolf]

One more thing to add...

It SHOULDN'T be in the encoder... Unless there is outside configuration in it (like buttons turning it on and off and changing speed)...

Why?

You don't want to update the flash ram every time you change it... And you wont get it working proper for each game.   Some games will ignore button presses too fast... Some you have to turn it off.. Some you want it super fast.. IE, you couldn't come up with one solution that would be good for all games.

A MUCH better solution (imho) is to use a hacked version of mame that has it in it.  MamePlus does it I believe... and it would be something that you could probably talk into getting added to analog mame since it likes to add additional control stuff.... Something that could be controlled game / game.

And sorry Howard... there are REAL reasons for it!  What reasons?  My daughter can't push the buttons fast enought to play most games... So she pushes smart bomb 3 times and then dies to get a new character.  This would allow her to actually play...  Cheating is GREAT when you have kids!  But cheating when you can cheat for one character and not another is the best solution!

[hyiu]

for me.... slapping on the buttons 30 times a second pulling my whole body's non-existing muscles.... is half the fun....

with auto fire... it won't be as much fun !!!.....
just my personal opinion.... heee hee heee....

also.... its when my fingers are hurting really bad.. that I can't really press anymore.....
that's kinda like a signal to me that I need to pause the game and have some rest.....
with auto fire..... I'll lose this signal to rest.....
I'll be playing non-stop...... haa haa haa.... till I collapse.... haa haa haa.....  

[Tiger-Heli]

I don't know - I'm not hip on the rapid-fire feature in mame...I like whapping the buttons as fast as possible in donpachi.   :)BUT, I'd be hip to a key repeat for other programs - like when you scroll through mp3s and stuff - it would sure be nice to just hold the joystick down to scroll.  If there was some way to turn that off when mame starts...that'd be cool.

The KeyWiz supports auto-scroll and it MAME does not, so the MP3's example is covered.

Rapid Fire I think could best be added through the Cheat file in MAME or as Lilwolf said, it may be already in some of the custom builds.

Personally, I agree with HC (scary!!!).  I had a PC joystick with switchable and speed-selectable rapid fire and turned it off b/c it would either shoot too many things when I didn't want to shoot them, or it wouldn't shoot fast enough when I really needed to zap something.

[grafixmonkey]

Rygar with rapid fire??? No!  Thats just down right cheating

And I LOVE that game!  One on my favorites list for sure!

Really?  I thought I was the only one who'd played that game!  
I haven't had a good go at the arcade version.  I had an NES port of it where some of the bosses just couldn't be swatted without it...  at least not by a 10 year old.  :-D   I did play it some without rapid fire though.  


And I put in my vote for not adding it to Ipac too.  While they might be able to do it in software, it'd take a good chunk of programming, and might play havoc with their interrupt-driven system (my guess).  If it was on the Ipac in hardware, it'd add too much size to the pcb for something not many people want.  

And the circuits are much more useful as modular parts.  

And trust me, do it on a protoboard and the wiring is not bad at all, long as you're only hooking up two or four buttons per player.  Soldering it on a pcb is a bit more work, but still nuthin' compared to making the rest of the cab.