Building My First Controls

[Harbringer]

Hello, I'm excited to announce that I am getting ready to make my first controller parts purchases!

I've decided on the HAPP competition joy, and the buttons are HAPP buttons called "Pushbutton w/ Microswith"
(Pictures Below)

I already have this old HP keyboard that I will be cannabilizing for the controls.

I have seen the wiring done with Cat5 Networking cable (Which I may use -- would you recommend this?)

But my main question is wiring, and what else do I need? Will it be fairly straightforward to wire these buttons and joystick? Are there are any other parts I need? Feel free to recommend them. I have been reading about building this and I want to make a purchase soon so I can get my hands dirty but I more than welcome any/all suggestions and won't make my final purchase until I hear your input.

Thanks! -Harbringer

Edit: Just wanted to add I'll be using 2 joysticks and 6 buttons per player, then a couple other buttons for insert coin or reset etc etc

[pinballwizard79]

Do not use a keyboard

[javeryh]

Are you building a MAME cab?  If so, any reason why you don't want to use the U360?  You are going to have trouble playing the 4-ways and stuff with an 8-way joy.  Also, the U360 has a harness so you don't have to do a keyboard hack.   

[DaveMMR]

Do not use a keyboard

To elaborate on what he said, keyboard hacks back in the day were done out of necessity.  Nowadays, encoders are cheap (especially considering some people may go through multiple keyboards if they mess something up) so there really is no need to deal with the problems of a keyboard hack.

If you're doing it for the sake of doing it, however (e.g. just to say you did) then go for it.  If you want your controls working as quick as possible with minimal headaches, ditch the hack.  

[Harbringer]

Thanks for the input guys! 

All this time I was preparing to do the keyboard hack - But WOW i have not seen the u360's until now and they look amazing! I read about some incompatability issues with usb, will these still work with MAME? So they support 8 buttons per stick, is the wiring fairly straght forward? If you have a link or a picture of the buttons wired to the ultimarc 360 please post.

Your input has really helped me avoid working waaayy to hard and I appreciate it guys. The main thing that drew me to the keyboard hack design was the affordability - I saw the joysticks running for about $14 a pop. Although the u360 does look like I can have the controllers up and running within a few hrs. If you have a reputable seller of the u360 for a decent price please pm me (or post here not sure if forum rules allow)

Once again, Cheers! 

-Harbringer

[Ginsu Victim]

I've never read about any USB issues. U360s are awesome. The wiring is simple. For the joystick, run the usb to your computer. Easy enough. For the buttons, the U360 has a nine pin header. Purchase the wire harness and run the ground to all of the buttons for that player's stick, then run each individual input wire to the buttons one at a time.

You can purchase them direct from www.Ultimarc.com (UK) or you can talk to divemaster127 (USA) via PM. Check out his thread. He is a reputable vendor.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=47066.0

[z]

Echoing what the others above have said, skip the keyboard hack if at all possible.  What money you save in skipping an encoder may be lost in time if you need to do any troubleshooting.  If you want straightforward wiring it doesn't get much better than working with an encoder that has terminals already labeled for mame functions.

I can't comment on the U360s since I don't have them but I have had nothing but good buying experiences with Ultimarc, Groovy Game Gear and divemaster127.  If the parts are in stock all three usually get the package to my doorstep in 4 working days or less (yes, even Ultimarc shipping from England).

Welcome to a great addiction/hobby, it starts with one purchase and grows from there

[Ginsu Victim]

I've gotten packages from the UK to Oklahoma in two days from Ultimarc! Outstanding shipping!

[Harbringer]

What do you guys think about this?



He basically takes 2 old usb gamepads and connects the buttons to those... Although I probably would not buy it from the site he mentioned, it looks like a very economical way to go,... Whats everyone's thoughts on this? Also can someone point me to where i can get the "quick connects" he uses on the microswitches?

  Thanks for your input!

-Harbringer

[danny_galaga]

What do you guys think about this?



He basically takes 2 old usb gamepads and connects the buttons to those... Although I probably would not buy it from the site he mentioned, it looks like a very economical way to go,... Whats everyone's thoughts on this? Also can someone point me to where i can get the "quick connects" he uses on the microswitches?

  Thanks for your input!

-Harbringer

Hacking a gamepad is certainly a lot less work than hacking a keyboard. I've hacked a Logitech for a project (that i havent quite finished  ) and it went pretty smoothly. Great idea on drilling the holes on the tracks. I SOLDERED (as opposed to SODDERED, i thought only Christopher Walken talks like that!) straight on to the tracks, but then had to glue down the wires so they didnt pull the tracks off.

But if you don't have some old gamepads lying around, RandyT sells a budget keyboard emulator that works fine, and will probably cost less than two gamepads...

And I hope you try harder than that guy did with his contact paper...

[Ginsu Victim]

I SOLDERED (as opposed to SODDERED, i thought only Christopher Walken talks like that!)

That's how we say it here (silent L). How do you say it?

[javeryh]

So they support 8 buttons per stick, is the wiring fairly straght forward? If you have a link or a picture of the buttons wired to the ultimarc 360 please post.

It is super super easy.  You daisy chain the grounds and individually wire each switch.  No soldering required if you get some quick disconnects.  Here is how I hooked up one of my U360s:





The pics aren't at the best angle but you get the idea.  You can check out HERE for more info.  It really is the best solution since the stick is mappable.  You can switch from 4-way to 8-way to whatever on the fly without any added steps.  It is totally seamless and they just work.  On one of my older cabs I have T-Sticks which were switchable from 4-way to 8-way and unless I was the one playing they just stayed in 8-way all the time because my friends didn't know which games should be on which settings and they just didn't care.  With the U360 you don't have to ever think about it.  It is the best solution for a MAME cab where you want to play the most amount of games without creating a frankenpanel, IMO.

[thecheat]

The U360s look great but $60/each plus shipping gets expensive quickly even if you account for the fact that you don't need an I-PAC, you still need the (sold separately) button harness.

I wired up my I-PAC two nights ago. Two sticks, 7 buttons each, P1 and P2 start. Took about an hour and worked right the first time. Best part about the I-PAC is it comes preset with MAME's default keyboard layout and you don't have to change or configure anything at all. Just plug in and go.

[Ginsu Victim]

The U360s look great but $60/each plus shipping gets expensive quickly even if you account for the fact that you don't need an I-PAC, you still need the (sold separately) button harness.

The U360 is well worth the price. It's a stick that does almost everything and does it all very well.

[javeryh]

The U360s look great but $60/each plus shipping gets expensive quickly even if you account for the fact that you don't need an I-PAC, you still need the (sold separately) button harness.

The U360 is well worth the price. It's a stick that does almost everything and does it all very well.

I agree.  Over the life of the cab it is well worth the investment.

[Ginsu Victim]

I mean, if there's one part you don't want to go cheap on, it's the joystick. I bought Happ Universals first, and I quickly got rid of them within a month of installing them. Once I purchased the U360s, I no longer had any complaints.

[Harbringer]

If I do go the cheaper route and buy regular joysticks to be used in conjunction with a gamepad hack, what would be comparable in performance to the u360? I dont mean in terms of connectivity but more in joystick feel and movement. I was angling towards the happ competition joystick. What are your thoughts on happ joysticks?

To be honest im not sure how many games I will be playing that require the 4-way joy, but just in case, would the happ super perform similar to the happ competition? Being that they are the same price should I just get the supers?

Thanks again,
-Harbringer 

[Ginsu Victim]

Out of supers vs comps, go for the comps. If you don't think you'll be playing classics like Pac-man, Donkey Kong, Dig-Dug, etc, then you probably don't need 4-way.

[Harbringer]

The wiring is the last thing I need to consider befoer moving onto the build. As I mentioned before I have seen the wiring done with cat5  ethernet cable. Would this be an ok way to wire? What kind of wire do you guys use?

-Harbringer

[javeryh]

To be honest im not sure how many games I will be playing that require the 4-way joy

   No 4-way games???  But those are the best ones!!! 

I use whatever wire I have laying around - usually 22 gauge with .187 quick disconnects.   

[Harbringer]

Would this wire be ok? Its called "FunWire", found a 5 pack(different colors) of 9 ft coils, its 22 gauge and plastic coated. After shipping its about 8.50

Anyone know of another good site to buy the wire from?

[jholman76]

Anyone know of another good site to buy the wire from?

I just used CAT-5 cable and it works great. Free too because I have a crap load for my basement wiring job. Just tin both ends and voila. couldnt be easier... just dont damage the trace. I had to junk a Deal Extreme gamepad the other day because I ripped a trace off of the board. oops... oh well. there goes $9.

There are 2 types of CP builders, ones that want to have fun figuring out the hack, wether it be keyboard or gamepad, and those that just want plug and play.

Both are winners since we are all building cabinets, etc, but I find some sense of accomplishment from hacking. Makes the project more "mine".  I also like saving money! 

Why spend money on something you already have?

Just my opinion.

[arzoo]

If I do go the cheaper route and buy regular joysticks to be used in conjunction with a gamepad hack, what would be comparable in performance to the u360? I dont mean in terms of connectivity but more in joystick feel and movement. I was angling towards the happ competition joystick. What are your thoughts on happ joysticks?

To be honest im not sure how many games I will be playing that require the 4-way joy, but just in case, would the happ super perform similar to the happ competition? Being that they are the same price should I just get the supers?

Thanks again,
-Harbringer 

Every joystick has a unique 'feel' and digital sticks like the u360 are very different from any stick that uses switches (leaf or micro) like the Happ Comps or Supers. One of the reason that the u360's are so popular is that their 'feel' can be customized - length of handle, centering spring stiffness, and physical restrictor plates. Most seem to prefer the stiffer spring with the round restrictor plate (which shortens the throw). Course the other reason they're so popular is that they can be configured (on-the-fly automatically) as a 2-way, 4-way, 8-way, analog, mouse, or custom mapped joystick. I guess the only other stick with similar capabilities would be a Happ 49-Way wired to the GPWiz49 - but I can tell you from personal experience that the u360 works much better as an analog stick than the 49-Way.

So yeah, they're expensive, but I'd say the cost is justified considering how many other sticks you would need to cover so many different games.

[Harbringer]

If I use cat 5, what gauge solderless quick disconnect am I going to need?

-Harbringer

[javeryh]

If I use cat 5, what gauge solderless quick disconnect am I going to need?

-Harbringer

The invisible kind.   

I've never seen anything smaller than .110 but that might be too big.  I also have no idea what I'm talking about so you've got to factor that in as well - I'm sure someone with actual electrical knowledge will chime in...

[Benevolance]

I used the .187 quick disconnects with Cat 5 and it worked fine. You may have to double up the strand a bit to get a more snug fit. The problem I had using cat 5 was stripping the case from the individual wires. My wire stripper only went to 22 gauge. I believe Cat 5 is 24? Anyway, it was a small chore, but I still finished all the stripping and wiring in an evening.

For my ground wire, I used a spool of 16 gauge copper wire acquired from Princess Auto. It's the best store in Canada. It cost about $5-6 for three 20' spools.

[jholman76]

I got some cheap wire from a Home Depot locally. They had some in the doorbell area. I'm sure you can get some 22-20 guage really cheap at an auto parts store also, plus no shipping costs.

[danny_galaga]

cat 5 type wire is sufficient, AND you have a whole bunch of different colours. Wiring it all the same colour would be confusing as hell (although people do it and survive the experience).

A suggestion i saw on another forum was to use old printer cables, which always seem to be lying around...

[jholman76]

I used a cheapo belkin parallel cable last time I tried a hack and, man, it was super thin.. like 30 guage if that exists. it was so thin that when I tried to strip it, it just broke the cable. Maybe thats what I get for using a cheap cable.

Oh well. Cat 5 has worked well since. I just use the solid strands for ground and the striped strands for the input. A description on a little piece of tape on the cable doesnt hurt either.


joe

[Ginsu Victim]

For thin wire, the QuikStrip has worked great. I love this tool. I don't care if it IS a Billy Mays product!

Click pic for link

[jholman76]

I don't care if it IS a Billy Mays product!

As long is its not the prostitute-biting Vince from ShamWOW.

...seriously, he can't be doing this all day...

 

[thecheat]

I have this one too but it's a red and black painted version. The jaws don't clamp on the wire very well and it causes them to pull through as the insulation-grabbing part starts to pull. I just pinch the jaws closed harder with my other hand.

This thing works quite well aside from that issue. Great to do 4 wires at a time, too!

For thin wire, the QuikStrip has worked great. I love this tool. I don't care if it IS a Billy Mays product!

Click pic for link

[bkenobi]

There's also a version that has the jaw rotated so it looks more like pliers.  Anyway, that's the kind I have and it works great.  These don't always get a good grip on the insulation and can slip instead of stripping.  If you have that happen, simply hold the jaw closed a bit and it should get things going.

[Ginsu Victim]

The instructions tell you if it slips, pull the wiring downward and it works fine. That's what I do when I have to and have no issues.

[thecheat]

The instructions tell you if it slips, pull the wiring downward and it works fine. That's what I do when I have to and have no issues.

Mine didn't come with instructions

[Ginsu Victim]

Well now you know.