Haunted Ms. Pacman Cabinet?

[hypostatize]

Hey all -

I'm trying to track something down and somebody pointed me in this forum's general direction.  As many of you probably remember, in 2008 there was a deal on Craigslist where somebody in the Boston area was trying to unload a Ms. Pacman cab that was allegedly haunted.  A couple of weeks after that ad, somebody in the Boston area posted a different ad trying to unload what was supposedly the same Ms. Pacman game.  From what I can tell, that's where the trail goes cold.

During my research, I was informed that the person who at some point ended up with the haunted Ms. Pacman cabinet was possibly a member of this board.

If anybody has ANY information on this cabinet (Where it is now, Where it's been, its backstory, etc), please let me know!  Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

-Matt

[Bluedeath]

I don't know if anyone of us has it, but may a ask why someone should search for an haunted item? I mean normally people try to get rid of haunted items not to acquire them.

[csa3d]

I thought there were ghosts in every Ms. Pacman cab

-csa

[Malenko]

Don't all Ms.Pac-Man cabs have 4 ghosts in them?

EDIT: Damn csa3d beat me to it

[Bluedeath]

I done a research it seems that there is a Cursed Ms Pacman Cab that has a the fifth ghost, a black humanoid shadow that goes in an out from that cab and scares the family of the game owner.  May be challange it and winning will do the same effect of an exorcism.
here in Italy about this kind of story we use to say "Is not true but i believe it". Honestly i don't believe in ghosts but i dont' want to meet an entity that could change my mind either. 

[dreamakuma]

I just want to say this before I tell my story: I ain't lyin' but I don't have proof. I've had a few "haunted" items. A picture, and a typewriter. The picture was of some guy sitting in a chair, but every time you looked at him, the face was different(smile,grin,frown,wink,both eyes shut,ect.) And it would be moved around, spasticly, even when no one was around. I sold it off at a yard sale after it kept flying off the wall and landing in the same spot in the middle of the floor. The typewriter, writes on it's own. now I wouldn't have thought much of it if it were electric, Those spazz out on me. But it's mechanical. So It randomly just Writes, sometimes jibberish, others are half-finished sentinces, others paragraphs or poems. Not anything scary, mostly i'll see "so a man walks into a bar" or some other quick writeup. Nothing that bothers me, just odd. I would actually like to see a haunted cab. Think a haunted Street fighter would be great. Never have to bring over a friend to play!

[Bluedeath]

A couple of sites reports that the last person who aquired the cab was one of our members, there were a couple of links that pointed here but there were invalid threads. my question still remains.

@ hypostatize why are you searching this item?

[Namco]

sdjfwefiojsdlk sdkfjks  a guy walks into a bar with a dog under one

[hypostatize]

As to why -

It's kind of the combination of two of my favorite things.  Ms. Pacman was the first arcade game I ever played.  I remember riding down to the store with a handful of quarters and tearing that thing up on a pretty much daily basis (And punching the power switch on top if somebody else was taking too long, then joining in on the confused looks).  I always wanted it to be the first addition to my future personal collection.

I'm also a big fan of studying paranormal items/places/etc.  Mind you, I do it because I don't believe in any of it and want to more than anything.  I want to be proven wrong, and studying/finding places, people and things which are allegedly haunted gives me that chance.

So when a haunted Ms. Pacman allegedly turned up, it was two birds with one stone!  I know it probably seems odd to go looking for what could be trouble, but in my gut I just have a feeling that it's the right thing to do.

I figured that the lead to here would be all too easy ("Oh yeah, I picked that up on Craigslist.  Turns out the fifth ghost was a faulty monitor.  Swapped it out and it's good as new"), but I had to follow it up anyway.  

Thanks for all your input (And if anybody knows anything else, please let me know).

[Bluedeath]

Thanks for the expaination. I really hope that you will never proven wrong.

[hypostatize]

The typewriter, writes on it's own. now I wouldn't have thought much of it if it were electric, Those spazz out on me. But it's mechanical.

Do you still have it?

[dreamakuma]

The typewriter, writes on it's own. now I wouldn't have thought much of it if it were electric, Those spazz out on me. But it's mechanical.

Do you still have it?

Yeah, it was my mom's. one of the few things I still have from her. At the moment it's in storage. Kinda kept me up at night because it's friggin loud. try sleeping hearing CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICK CLICK DING!!!!!!! But I'm keeping it for better or worse, because I don't have much from my childhood.

Namco: Got a PC doin that??? J/K

[JMB]

That's weird,  I was the one that posted that thread.  I went back through my old posts but it seems to be gone???  I had contacted the craigslist poster but did not acquire the machine.

[Justin Z]

OMFG GHOSTS RUN

[JMB]

I guess it was last seen in PnR.


Title: MOVED: Interesting Craigslist find.
Post by: saint on March 14, 2008, 07:20:02 PM
This topic has been moved to Politics 'n Religion and the supernatural (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?board=31).

[hypostatize]

It seems like the whole PnR section is gone?  Or am I just not high level enough to access it?  PS - I know it's a longshot, but if you have any recollection/copy of the original posting and/or the phone number/name of the person you contacted and could PM me with it, that would be invaluable.

Thanks!

[HaRuMaN]

You have to read the rules regarding the P&R forum, and then tell the rules to Saint in your own words before you get access.

[retrometro]

I just want to say this before I tell my story: I ain't lyin' but I don't have proof. I've had a few "haunted" items. A picture, and a typewriter.
...

Sounds like you should watch this presentation.

http://www.dailymotion.com/user/totocacapouet/video/x8uei4_openmindedness_tech

[RayB]

"Open minded" is a term I've come to realize means very different things to different people, so you really have to ask for clarification. To one person it means "open to TRYING new things", to another its believing in paranormal crap, to another it means "likes threesomes and swinging", and to others it means complete gullibility (though they don't realize it and get very offended if you say that!).

I'm also a big fan of studying paranormal items/places/etc.  Mind you, I do it because I don't believe in any of it and want to more than anything.  I want to be proven wrong, and studying/finding places, people and things which are allegedly haunted gives me that chance.

I used to be like that. "I want to believe". But in the end it's like trying to find the Tooth Fairy, no?

Yeah, it was my mom's. one of the few things I still have from her. At the moment it's in storage. Kinda kept me up at night because it's friggin loud. try sleeping hearing CLACK CLACK CLACK CLICK CLICK DING!!!!!!! But I'm keeping it for better or worse, because I don't have much from my childhood.

So then you have video right? Cuz of course that would be the first thing I would do. Set up a camera, not to mention put paper in it to see what came out. Let me guess, you have neither.

[saint]

OK, the original thread is back where everyone can get it.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77668.0

[Xiaou2]

 If you Dont believe... then you would rarely get to experience them.   Its a system
of protection.

 From what I can tell, they exist on a different plane of existence. 
Much like a radio station dial.  We being on station 98.9   and they  being on
station 90.2.      Only certain people can turn their internal dials to see and
experience them.   Making a sort of Gateway.

 Usually people who do not believe... still get frightened,  and that fear leads to
a belief... which allows the gate to open.   

 The Problem with the gate... is that people do not realize that they have the true
power.   It then becomes dangerous... because a wicked spirit can attach itself
to you and your environment... even possibly possess you physically.   Mostly
because the person feels that they are powerless.  They dont know how to close
the gate...  and it can lead to some real bad troubles.

 
 Ive personally seen/watched  a ghost from 12ft away in a brightly lit hallway.   My mother used to see them from childhood, and can see them all the time to this day.  I have 2 friends that have either seen or experienced them.  Ive had a few people from various work places confide in their experiences as well.  Many people are reluctant to share their experiences for fear of being labeled a liar or mentally unstable.   Me... I really dont care what people think.  Truth is much more important to me..  and I have a good
reputation of integrity.

 There seem to be many kinds of spirits.  Some which seem to be living in a sort of
dream/other-world.  And some who have retained their consciousness of 'here & now"...
and are interactive.
(able to see and interact with our station)    There has been said to be non-human
spirits... which I supposed makes sense... but Im not sure about it.

 Ive seen the typical white-translucent ghost.   As well as seeing a shadow-ghost twice.
The shadow ghost darted by me in mid afternoon in my brightly day-lit apartment.
I originally thought it was some punk kid that ran past.  I looked all over the place.
Realized nobody was there besides bro/sisters who were visible at the time of incident.
About 7 min later... I saw it again.  This time, I caught more of a solid glimpse of it.
I believe my bros and sisters saw it too.   All these years and Ive forgotten to ask.  heh

 Those happened when I was ages from about 10 to 12.  Havent seen another since.
(I have never done any drugs, and didnt drink till age 25)

 The quickest way to a bad experience is the Ouija board (alone).   I cant believe they
sell these as a kids game.  >.<    I do NOT recocommend it.  If done correctly, it
can let some nasty things in...  that are very hard to get rid of.


 Ive heard some spirits get attached to some objects... but i do not think they follow
the object much further than their hang-out area.  Such as past the walls of their old
house.

[retrometro]

 If you Dont believe... then you would rarely get to experience them.   Its a system
of protection.

 From what I can tell, they exist on a different plane of existence. 
Much like a radio station dial.  We being on station 98.9   and they  being on
station 90.2.      Only certain people can turn their internal dials to see and
experience them.   Making a sort of Gateway.

 Usually people who do not believe... still get frightened,  and that fear leads to
a belief... which allows the gate to open.   
...

...and how is it you can tell?  Your only proof in this exercise is to cite an n number of others that share your experiences.  It would be equally fruitless to further this discussion if I wrote that n + 1 people that I know have never experienced this. 

...that's just assuming experience alone is the same as scientifically observable phenomena.  I can ask you to demonstrate or share your facts and it still will not invalidate your experiences.  Nor can your experiences can be substituted for facts.

[1UP]

 

[MrRetro]

I do believe that places and Houses can be haunted! but that they will haunt a cab that's new ha ha probably a Dude that was nuked when he replaced a new chassi and now is hauntind it  

[retrometro]

And before anyone writes "ok, then prove that hauntings / ghosts do not exist!" ...   Please don't. 

[Xiaou2]

 I find it funny how the non-believers are so hell bent on bashing/mocking those who
have seen and had experiences.   

 They do this because they are frightened.   Because if there really Is something
like this out there... it would change everything they believe in.

 A true scientist takes all data into consideration.  Does not bash/mock others, or other
conceptual possibilities.  Nor are so quick to dismiss data. If that were not true,  half of
what we know today, would still be unknown.

 There is much more out there that human will ever know.   Btw - please tell me
how all this 'Stuff'  in the universe came into existence.   And please dont tell me that
it was Always there...      
 

[isucamper]

Btw - please tell me how all this 'Stuff'  in the universe came into existence.

A ghost pooped it.

[1UP]

I find it ironic how someone who centers all his arguments on "Fact" and "Science" is now so adamantly pressing an issue that can only be believed or not, but never Proven.  "Sorry, but it's BS.  Come back when you have Facts, not Opinions." </xiaou2>  

I am not an atheist, I believe that spirits exist and that all this energy goes somewhere when we die.  But I don't believe that we just hang around typing nonsense, moving things, and making blurry appearances in the corners of photos just to screw with the living.  It makes great fiction, but what a waste of an afterlife.

And I think that while it may occasionally be possible to see a ghost, more often than not people just don't understand what they actually saw, jumping at reflections and shadows.  Just watch any of these so-called ghost hunting reality shows, where they stumble around an old house freaking each other out, talking about shadows and noises, meanwhile never catching a thing on camera.  

I have seen strange things myself during my life, but they are always disproven when investigated logically, which is why I am now such a skeptic.  One night when I was alone at 2am (working on my cabinet as it happens) I was in a dark room, and suddenly saw a brightly glowing chromatic apparition moving in the corner of my eye, which then shot straight up the wall and vanished as I turned to get a look at it.  Yeah, I freaked out for a minute, because "I knew what I saw!"  But not willing to leave it at that, I really wanted to figure out what the heck it was.  So after taking a step back and looking around a while for the source of the image, I noticed a CD sitting on a pile of books near where I had been.  When I stood in the same place and nudged the books, sure enough--there was my ghost in exactly the same place, moving up and down the wall!    Critical thinking FTW.

People are gullible, and have vivid imaginations that try to make sense of anything they don't understand.  But just as with stage magic, there is always some really cheezy explanation behind it all.

[TOK]

 I find it funny how the non-believers are so hell bent on bashing/mocking those who
have seen and had experiences.   

 They do this because they are frightened.   Because if there really Is something
like this out there... it would change everything they believe in.

 A true scientist takes all data into consideration.  Does not bash/mock others, or other
conceptual possibilities.  Nor are so quick to dismiss data. If that were not true,  half of
what we know today, would still be unknown.

 There is much more out there that human will ever know.   Btw - please tell me
how all this 'Stuff'  in the universe came into existence.   And please dont tell me that
it was Always there...      
 

This argument could spiral on forever, but I'm a skeptic that would like to see something to know we're not just a heap of organic matter that dies, decays and disappears.

We have a guy here that claims the typewriter his dead mother gave him writes it's own messages. What would you do with that? Throw it in storage so it doesn't wake you up or use it to prove to the world there is life after death?

Please.

[FrizzleFried]

People at one time thought that the light "rays" that happen sometimes due to cloud cover (sometimes called "god rays") were something spiritual... well,  science has proven that not to be the case...

If ghosts were "real" there would be some verifiable documented proof SOMEWHERE.  If it's out there... please show me.  Every and anything I've ever seen, read,  or experienced that was explained as "supernatural" had an explanation based on reality.

Next brother X is going to try to convince us the Easter Bunny,  Santa Clause,  the Tooth Fairy,  and God himself exist.

[FrizzleFried]

I just want to say this before I tell my story: I ain't lyin' but I don't have proof. I've had a few "haunted" items. A picture, and a typewriter.
...

Sounds like you should watch this presentation.

http://www.dailymotion.com/user/totocacapouet/video/x8uei4_openmindedness_tech

Excellent video... thanks!

[RayB]

Gates. LOL
With 6 billion people on the planet and more than 50% of them believing in ghosts, you'd think the planet would be flooded with spirit activity.

This is what happens when you open a gate:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOX6-Rw5PWc[/youtube]
 

[retrometro]

I find it funny how the non-believers are so hell bent on bashing/mocking those who
have seen and had experiences.   

 They do this because they are frightened.   Because if there really Is something
like this out there... it would change everything they believe in.

 A true scientist takes all data into consideration.  Does not bash/mock others, or other
conceptual possibilities.  Nor are so quick to dismiss data. If that were not true,  half of
what we know today, would still be unknown.

 There is much more out there that human will ever know.   Btw - please tell me
how all this 'Stuff'  in the universe came into existence.   And please dont tell me that
it was Always there...      

You'll note that at no point have your observations been dismissed.  I am dismissing your statements with a lack of "data'. 

At no point have I written that your ghosts do not exist.  I have simply asked for this data you refer to and stated that experiencing something does not a fact make... nor does telling someone that others share your views or experience.

You also postulate that because someone is challenging a statement you present to be true, that they have all (or any for that matter) the answers.  If you tell me you have 3 apples in your backpack and I ask that you demonstrate your claim, I don't have to know the origins of you, your backpack, or apples to challenge your statement.  Accusing me of being frightened or insisting that others have observed the apples do nothing for your case.

You got one thing right.  I am mocking you.  Also, it is not true that scientists do not mock others.

[1UP]

A true scientist takes all data into consideration.  Does not bash/mock others, or other conceptual possibilities.

Scientists allow room for new ideas, but they also do not accept unproven concepts as fact.  Otherwise your biology class would have to teach that storks deliver babies, as well as the conventional theory of where babies come from.    Science accepts what it can test, and unfortunately, personal anecdotes and voodoo don't qualify as testable data.

[Namco]

Occam's Razor... defeatin' ghost stories since the beginning of mankind.

[dreamakuma]

We have a guy here that claims the typewriter his dead mother gave him writes it's own messages. What would you do with that? Throw it in storage so it doesn't wake you up or use it to prove to the world there is life after death?

Please.

Because If I showed it First thing I'd Hear is FAKE. And anytime I've tried to get it on tape...it just doesn't happen. And it doesn't prove life after death. I've had audio recorded but then again hearing CLACK CLACK CLICK CLICK DING!!! doesn't prove anything. Hell it possibly could be explained. I mean I've had intimate expiriances with things that couldn't be explanied as a child seeing lights in a Closet that had no origin as well as others but then again the typewriter could just have heavy keys and it's just weird coincidence....but "haunted" is the best way to desrcibe it. kinda cruel of you guys so i'll just stop sharing at this point. not that i'm offended , just don't want to discuss it further.

[saint]

A true scientist takes all data into consideration. 

I'd like to believe. Scientific data is documentable, quantifiable, and reproducable. I'd like to see such data.

........

And I'm not making this up -- I swear I had posted this reply already, but when I went to look for it a moment later it wasn't there so I had to post it again. I assume I missed something...

[Xiaou2]

 1up,   just because you can not conceive of a spirit which sticks around does not
mean that they do not do so.

 In fact, there are many reasons for such an event to happen.

 In one book Ive read... it was said that the spirits who die get helped to their
new destinations by other helper / higher  spirits.    However, there are many
spirits who refuse to leave.   Some actually stay with their physical bodies
in the coffins ... waiting for "Jesus"  to come back and revive them to life.

 Some have said that a free roaming soul creates its own sort of reality. 
(A soul does not have that same sort of physical eyesight - and so perception
and reality are very different)   Sort of like its own living dream.  In this state...
they can get stuck/lost.

 Some choose to stick around to watch their loved ones or simply, because they
prefer to hang around the world as they knew it - rather than to move on.

I'd like to believe. Scientific data is documentable, quantifiable, and reproducable. I'd like to see such data.

 Im sure with a little digging,  one can find documented scientific data on the
subject.  The problem is... that its usually brushed off as a fluke, malfunction,
and or archived away like it never happened.

 There is certain types of data that can be collected..  however, theres much more that
can not be.   Just think... How can one collect readings on something that exists
on a different plane of reality?  Can we detect consciousness?   If a ghost is only
seen by the person who tunes into that reality... Can we detect it through them?

 There are many more questions than answers.


 My mother told us what she saw when we were young.  We thus grew up with
open minds to such things... which is probably the only way that I was able to
see such things.   They also seem to be attracted to people who see them... such as
my mother, who sees them regularly.

 The people who Ive talked with,  such as my close friends here... Ive known for like
10 yrs.  They are not the liar types,  nor story-makers.  Not druggies either.   Ive met
many Liar / Story tellers in my time... so Im very keen to be able to tell the difference
in people who are dead serious and honest,   and those who are making crap up.


 Occums Razor is a Cop Out.   Self appointed BS.   And it still does not explain
to any degree How all this Stuff was just 'here'.   The universe is far from Simple!
And only simple minded people would use such Drivel in an argument.

[saint]

I'd like to believe. Scientific data is documentable, quantifiable, and reproducable. I'd like to see such data.

 Im sure with a little digging,  one can find documented scientific data on the
subject.  The problem is... that its usually brushed off as a fluke, malfunction,
and or archived away like it never happened.

 There is certain types of data that can be collected..  however, theres much more that
can not be. 

If a human eye can see it, a camera can record it. If a human ear can hear it, an audio recording can be made. If a human can feel a temperature change, a digital thermometer can record it.

You implied such scientific data existed - I can't find it. I'd like to see it.

[retrometro]

1up,   just because you can not conceive of a spirit which sticks around does not
mean that they do not do so.

..and just because you can "conceive of a spirit", thinking of it does not make it so.

In fact, there are many reasons for such an event to happen.

 In one book Ive read... it was said that the spirits who die get helped to their
...

First, you should strike the words "In fact" out of your vocabulary because that's not how these words are used.  Also, referring to books you have read is the equivalent to using what someone tells you as evidence to support your statements.

Some have said that a free roaming soul creates its own sort of reality. 
(A soul does not have that same sort of physical eyesight - and so perception
and reality are very different)   Sort of like its own living dream.  In this state...
they can get stuck/lost.

 Some choose to stick around to watch their loved ones or simply, because they
prefer to hang around the world as they knew it - rather than to move on.

Really.  ..and how do you know this?  ..because the other day several professors I dearly trust told me that these spirts don't choose to stay because they're stuck or lost but rather that gravity works differently on spirits and they're unable to escape Earth's pull and move onto the next plane.... which of course is somewhere near Jupiter... or was it New Jersey?

Im sure with a little digging,  one can find documented scientific data on the
subject.  The problem is... that its usually brushed off as a fluke, malfunction,
and or archived away like it never happened.

Right.  Because scientific journals would much rather publish esoteric articles on how light passes through some medium in this way or that way under this and such conditions than the proof for determining once and for all of life existing and interacting outside of an organism governed by a completely unknown set of laws that defy most of mankind's collective scientific knowledge bridging the centuries old conflicts between religion and science? 

There is certain types of data that can be collected..  however, theres much more that
can not be.   Just think... How can one collect readings on something that exists
on a different plane of reality?  Can we detect consciousness?   If a ghost is only
seen by the person who tunes into that reality... Can we detect it through them?

This is the classic high school debate trick of "If we don't have these answers, then how can one expect to find answers about my statement?"

There are many more questions than answers.

..and that is the point.  However, you are presenting your experiences and anecdotes of others as fact supporting your answers.  You have been providing instantiated answers.

My mother told us what she saw when we were young.  We thus grew up with
open minds to such things... which is probably the only way that I was able to
see such things.   They also seem to be attracted to people who see them... such as
my mother, who sees them regularly.

My mockery is limited to only you.

The people who Ive talked with,  such as my close friends here... Ive known for like
10 yrs.  They are not the liar types,  nor story-makers.  Not druggies either.   Ive met
many Liar / Story tellers in my time... so Im very keen to be able to tell the difference
in people who are dead serious and honest,   and those who are making crap up.

You should realize that no one including myself have accused you, your mother, or your friends of lying.  That is, accusing you of being intentionally misleading.  I even recognize you could simply be one of those guys that post absurd messages just to get the type of responses you're receiving.  For that I'm guilty.  You can be wrong without being a "liar type". 

The only people in this thread that can't be wrong are those that have not made any claims.  That is, those just asking questions and for proof of your statements.

[FrizzleFried]

I'd like to believe. Scientific data is documentable, quantifiable, and reproducable. I'd like to see such data.

 Im sure with a little digging,  one can find documented scientific data on the
subject.  The problem is... that its usually brushed off as a fluke, malfunction,
and or archived away like it never happened.

 There is certain types of data that can be collected..  however, theres much more that
can not be. 

If a human eye can see it, a camera can record it. If a human ear can hear it, an audio recording can be made. If a human can feel a temperature change, a digital thermometer can record it.

You implied such scientific data existed - I can't find it. I'd like to see it.

I challenge you 'X"... present a SINGLE SHRED of verifiable evidence that ghosts exist and I will forever add "OWNED BY X" to my sig.

You can't.

Why?

Because there is none...

Along with the death trains (which we proved were ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---) and the death camps (also proven to be ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---),  you've concocted this ridiculousness in your head and ran with it.   Perhaps someone else planted the seeds?   Dunno...

Sheesh...

They also seem to be attracted to people who see them... such as
my mother, who sees them regularly.

This explains quite a lot. 

[isucamper]

If a human eye can see it, a camera can record it. If a human ear can hear it, an audio recording can be made. If a human can feel a temperature change, a digital thermometer can record it.

The thing is, there are thousands and thousands of videos, pictures, and sound recordings of ghosts and demons (just do a search in google).  Some of them are pretty creepy, but most of them are laughably ridiculous.

There may be real proof out there, but 99% of the material is fake and with so many people actively creating hoaxes its hard to take something seriously that might be real.

[FrizzleFried]

For the record... my mom also claims she's seen a ghost. 




...and I think she's a nutter too! 

 

[Todd H]

Haunted typewriter? Hmmm....

Maybe you should apply for Randi's Million Dollar Challenge?

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

The challenge has been around since 1964 and to this day nobody has been able to prove anything of a paranormal nature.

[FrizzleFried]

Haunted typewriter? Hmmm....

Maybe you should apply for Randi's Million Dollar Challenge?

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

The challenge has been around since 1964 and to this day nobody has been able to prove anything of a paranormal nature.

Well there you go...

X...mom could be rich!!

 

[Ginsu Victim]

I've got a friend who I had lost contact with over the years. In high school, we knew him as "the kooky guy", because he was a bit of a kook. The other day, I got back into contact with him via Myspace, and I found out what he's doing now:

http://www.insightparanormal.org

Still a kook, it seems....

[1UP]

In one book Ive read... it was said that the spirits who die get helped to their
new destinations by other helper / higher  spirits.    However, there are many
spirits who refuse to leave.   Some actually stay with their physical bodies
in the coffins ... waiting for "Jesus"  to come back and revive them to life.

Interesting.  Since the only people who could possibly have experienced this would have to be dead, I wonder how the author did his research...  And you call Occam's Razor drivel?  Excuse me while I roffle.      

Basically, you are telling us to ignore rational thinking or be skeptical about science--even though you use science to back up every other argument you make--and just believe anything you say?  Have you even watched the video posted earlier?  It might do you some good, although I doubt anything will ever get through to you in your alternate reality.  I don't think I'll even bother to argue with you about joysticks or switches again, you've just lost what little credibility you had.

For the record... my mom also claims she's seen a ghost. 

For the record, so has mine, but she is a very reasonable person.  But what she thinks she saw happened when she was a child.  My mom and all her sisters say they used to hear singing and talking under their house at night.  They even gave the ghost a name.  There are other anecdotes of cousins and such on her side that have seen some  mysterious person standing in an empty room after loved ones had died, but they were always very young children.  Which means one of two things: children have some property that makes them more likely to be able to see ghosts, or they have more active imaginations and are prone to exaggeration and less able to use critical thinking than adults.

[Xiaou2]

If a human eye can see it, a camera can record it. If a human ear can hear it, an audio recording can be made.

 Firstly,  you ignored my statements...  that certain people can see spirits - because
they are open to them,  and can view the other plane of existence.   In such a case,
only they would be able to view the spirit in visible form.

 Consciousness does not have to be visible either..   and yet, that does not mean
that it does not exist without physical form.  Can you prove consciousness without
form?  Imop.. there surly has to be... considering that this universe is way too
non-chaotic to be the way it is today.  Something with great intelligence had to form
the way this entire system operates.


 Now, why would ghosts be with form... such as clothing?   It boggles the mind!
My guess, is that the image in which they somehow are able to project. 
(or how the person who senses them is able to translate the information into
a visible format based on the information)   Then again, the ones seen may just be a static wrinkle in time...   a sort of 'captured' hologram of a past living life.   Who knows.

 Some do not so much as see the actual form of a spirit... yet then can get
glimpses of the spirits past memories.   And or they can hear and or read the spirits
emotions, and intentions... or even communicate with them.

 Such things are impressive... but very hard to prove.   For one... the connections
are not always very solid and true.  And that the spirits who chose to stay behind
are often lost and mischievous  - if not cold and mean in intentions.   Many spirits
that are contacted thru Ouija board are Liars... and are trying to attain a stronger
hold over their hosts so can gain control / possession. 

 

If a human can feel a temperature change, a digital thermometer can record it.

 I pretty much agree with you about this (though not completely certain).   When I
saw a ghost... I do not recall it being colder than normal.  Then again, I was about
12 ft away from it.   My mother said one spirit appeared next to her in her bed, and
woke because it was freezing cold - only to quickly discover why that was!

 There are some shows on tv that have captured significant drops in temperature
in very small localized areas.   However... like anyone, I suspect such shows as
being manipulated and fake.  Anyone could in fact rig up false equipment and
set up a funhouse worth of trickery.   

 The question would then be....  What scientist has captured true unexplained
severe temperature drops,  and what was done with the data?   Nobody is
going to believe the data.. or they will simply shrug it off.   Just like many Atheists
shurg off the fact that Something Intelligent had to have designed the universe
and set its components in action.   Stuff like this just does not get here for
no reason at all!

 Voices on digital recorders?  Again, supposedly many have captured them.
Will anyone Really take them seriously?   The only ones who might... would be the
people who were there at the site where they were captured.  And even that
could be tampered or faked.  And even If its real... again... who is really going
to take it as 100% fact?

 Simply put,  most people Dont want to believe in such a thing as a spirit.  It may
Ruin their entire perspectives on Religion, the way the afterlife works, their entire
view of life and how they may choose to see and live it.
 

 And Btw - The Great Randy is a scam in itself.   The guy has a vested interest in
not seeking the truth.  He also does not actively search nor research the topic of
interest.  Ive also heard of people considering signing up for a challenge, and
getting tons of complicated paperwork filled out... and any one error (which due
to its intended design is extremely easy to make)   will void the entire thing.   Not only
that... but He himself gets to make the rules...  which means he can cheat the
results.  I believe people have to pay him to come out...  as well as only 1 or 2
test are done per year.   I cant recall all the details... but it was an extremely sketchy
operation.   To even use him in an argument shows pure ignorance on the highest
level.

You implied such scientific data existed - I can't find it. I'd like to see it.

 I have no reason to dig so deep.  Ive already seen the stuff, and have many
other witnesses whom I believe and trust.

 However, if you are so interested.. I suggest starting out by asking people in
real-estate.   People who buy, rent and sell houses.   One of my recent bosses
was studying to become a realtor in his spare time.   Hes already heard several
stories from many other realtors about houses that have problems with them.

 Then start asking your closest of friends.  People who you know that do not lie, and
hold high integrity...  if they have ever experienced something out of the ordinary.
Make sure you do not do so as a joke... nor in a way that is suspectful.  But rather
genuinely interested.  Most people really do not want to tell their experiences,
because they dont want to be labeled as insane.

 

 My mother grew up with 5 other siblings + her mother,   in a very old haunted
house in the city.   It was very unusual, and had a few hidden passage ways
in it - most likely used when prohibition was in swing.   However, something bad
must have happened there... because there was a lot of activity there.

 At the age of only 3, my mom said that she had seen a man in a black trench
coat asking her to follow him.  Her mother had later reported this to her when
she got older.   She would point to the man, and ask her mother about him...
and nobody was there.
 
 Later:   Every night at a certain time... there were sounds of footsteps... which led
to the restroom.  Then the toilet would actually flush.  The kids tried to jump out and
see who it was... and there was never anyone there.

 I will spare my moms worst experiences, to save some nightmares... however,
this one is pretty messed up:

 My Moms Sister went to find my mother.  Opened her room door up.   My
mothers various photographs of people were spinning around the room... and the
faces on them were laughing.   My aunt quickly slammed the door closed, never to
go in there again.


 My mother hates liars.  Even the smallest of white lies I tried to tell as a kid.. and I was getting my hair nearly pulled out of my head by her.   My aunt, is also very honest.. and has no reason to lie about her experience.   My mother is a B*tch... but she, nor my
nice aunt are loony tunes.  Not even close.

[Todd H]

I see lots and lots of words and numerous claims but still no evidence to back any of it up. Something tells me this isn't worth my time.

[1UP]

Firstly,  you ignored my statements...  that certain people can see spirits - because
they are open to them,  and can view the other plane of existence.   In such a case,
only they would be able to view the spirit in visible form.

It's fun to pretend you have super powers.

Many spirits
that are contacted thru Ouija board are Liars... and are trying to attain a stronger
hold over their hosts so can gain control / possession. 

You don't seriously believe that a piece of printed cardboard mass produced by Milton Bradley is really a spritual gateway?   

[Xiaou2]

You don't seriously believe that a piece of printed cardboard mass produced by Milton Bradley is really a spritual gateway?

 Spiritual Communication devices have been developed since the times of
Ancient China, thousands of years ago.     The Ouija was not invented by a game
company.  It was bought by one.

 The Ouija is merely a tool.   Its the persons intention that means much more.
As that intent... to contact the other side... is a big key in opening a gateway.
The board does in some ways amplify that ability... because it allows easy
movement and precise method of communication. 

 The Ouija basically encourages a person to let a Spirit control their movements
through a connection with them.   This is a big step in the direction of possession.
You are giving the spirit power and permission, both over yourself,  as well as entry
into your life/realm.

 
 Most would simply have a funny game out of the thing.. because there are many
non-believers who are intentionally steering the thing.   Some simply have their
sub-conscious mind take over and create works of fabrication.   However, there
are those who actually do make contact...  and when it happens, it can be very
bad.   In fact, according to what Ive read.. the most and worst cases of 
Demonic/Spiritual  harassment has been caused by use of the Ouija.

 A persons ability to connect and develop a more clear and powerful pathway - grows
stronger the more that they use it.   


 

It's fun to pretend you have super powers.

 We are all super powers.   Anyone can develop and enhance their own
intuitive abilities.   Starting with daily hour long meditations.   Where one learns to
quiet the   "self/ego"  ...and then can actually hear and sense things that they
once could not.

 At one point in time (about ages 17 to 20), I went on a quest for higher truths.  Found a class that gave intuitive instruction.   After a few months time in class + doing 2hrs a day worth of meditations,   my horrible scores on my  ESP test were getting good, and got
about 10 points higher each week.  Eventually I was actually getting spontaneous premonitions.  These of which were of the near future.. and came true hours later in the same day.   The stuff was quite amazing.  Though admittedly, a bit scary. 


 The universe is much more mystical than many humans tend to want to admit.

[Justin Z]

OMFG GHOSTS RUN

[VespaGuy]

You don't seriously believe that a piece of printed cardboard mass produced by Milton Bradley is really a spritual gateway?

 Spiritual Communication devices have been developed since the times of
Ancient China, thousands of years ago.

 

And since the times of Ancient China, not a single one has been proven to contact spirits from beyind.

The Ouija was not invented by a game company.  It was bought by one.

Becuase is is nothing more than a fun toy for young girls at slumber parties.

 

The Ouija is merely a tool.   

That's not the only tool in this thread...

Its the persons intention that means much more.
As that intent... to contact the other side... is a big key in opening a gateway.
The board does in some ways amplify that ability... because it allows easy
movement and precise method of communication. 

 The Ouija basically encourages a person to let a Spirit control their movements
through a connection with them.   This is a big step in the direction of possession.
You are giving the spirit power and permission, both over yourself,  as well as entry
into your life/realm.

 
 Most would simply have a funny game out of the thing.. because there are many
non-believers who are intentionally steering the thing.   Some simply have their
sub-conscious mind take over and create works of fabrication.   

The oujia board can easily be explained by the ideomotor effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect

However, there are those who actually do make contact...  and when it happens, it can be very
bad.   In fact, according to what Ive read.. the most and worst cases of Demonic/Spiritual harassment has been caused by use of the Ouija.

This is just begging the question.

A persons ability to connect and develop a more clear and powerful pathway - grows
stronger the more that they use it.   

You'll notice that spirit communication will suddenly stop, or turn to gibberish, if the participants are blindfolded. Why is that? Hmmm...

 

We are all super powers.   Anyone can develop and enhance their own
intuitive abilities.   Starting with daily hour long meditations.   Where one learns to
quiet the   "self/ego"  ...and then can actually hear and sense things that they
once could not.

 At one point in time (about ages 17 to 20), I went on a quest for higher truths.  Found a class that gave intuitive instruction.   After a few months time in class + doing 2hrs a day worth of meditations,   my horrible scores on my  ESP test were getting good, and got
about 10 points higher each week.  Eventually I was actually getting spontaneous premonitions.  These of which were of the near future.. and came true hours later in the same day.   The stuff was quite amazing.  Though admittedly, a bit scary. 

Sounds like you've claimed something you can actually demonstrate. How'd you like a cool million dollars? James Randi is offering 1 million dollars for proof of the paranormal. 2 hours a day seems like a small sacrifice for 1 million dollars!

I have ESP, too. I predict that you will have an excuse why you won't make an effort to demonstrate your ability for one million dollars (and possibly turning science on it's ear!!)

The universe is much more mystical than many humans tend to want to admit.

And it was even more mystical thousands of years ago. It's funny that the more we understand about the universe, the less mystical it is.

[VespaGuy]

And Btw - The Great Randy is a scam in itself.

So much wrong in one paragraph.

The guy has a vested interest in not seeking the truth. 

Wrong.

Proving the paranormal would be a ground-breaking discovery. The entire framework of science would be turned upside down. This would be of such magnitude that the million dollars would pale in comparison.

He also does not actively search nor research the topic of interest. 

Why should he? He doesn't care how you do what you claim. He only cares that you can do what you claim. If you can do it, and it's not be non-paranormal means, you've just won 1 million dollars.

Ive also heard of people considering signing up for a challenge, and getting tons of complicated paperwork filled out... and any one error (which due to its intended design is extremely easy to make)   will void the entire thing.

   

Wrong.

Most claims are dropped because the claimant refuses to make a testifiable claim. Many of the claims they receive read like the hogwash you've peppered the thread with; "you need to be open to spirits to see them, blah, blah, blah", etc. But they never actually make a claim of what they can do. As I said earlier, they don't care how you claim to do your supernatural trick, just tell them WHAT you can do and do it. It's very simple, but most claimants can't make it pass this first step.

Not only that... but He himself gets to make the rules... 

Wrong.

The foundation and the claimant design a protocol together that will produce obvious results to all involved. Just like any scientific test, double-blinds and controls are used, and it's usually at this point that any claimants who've made it this far drop out. See, when controls are used, the supernatural effect always dissappears.

which means he can cheat the results. 

Double wrong!

First, all tests are designed so that the results are obvious to everyone. If you claim that you can read zener cards, you would agree on an amount that would qualify as a win (and seperate the results from random chance). So if you say that you can read zener cards and get 18 out of 20 correct, and you get 15 out of 20 correct, you lose. Simple as that. There is NO WAY to cheat.

And secondly, you'll be happy to know that Randi isn't even involved in most preliminary tests! They're usually done by independent groups.

I believe people have to pay him to come out... 

Wrong.

As stated above, the foundation does it's best attempt to finding a testing facility close to the claimant. Yes, the travel is paid for by the claimant. But isn't that a drop in the bucket considering the million dollars to be won?

as well as only 1 or 2 test are done per year. 

Wrong. 

The number of tests done is directly proportional to the number of applicants who make it through to the preliminary testing. There is no "backlog" of claimants waiting for their turn.

I cant recall all the details... but it was an extremely sketchy operation.   

You can't recall all the details? You apparently can't recall any details. You couldn't be more wrong about every detail if you tried.
 

To even use him in an argument shows pure ignorance on the highest level.

It is obvious where the ignorance lies.

[1UP]

Holy crap, he knows Kung Fu AND has ESP!  We'd better stop messing with this guy.   

 

[retrometro]

I think this thread needs to be closed or moved to "Everything Else".  ...or at least if someone turns this bus back around into talking about the Ms Pacman cab.

[Xiaou2]

 Found on the Web:

---------
Another interesting quote is about CSICOP, which is the organization which Randi headed sometime during his carreer:

    Fate Magazine said in its September 1983 issue, “They call themselves the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. In fact, they are a group of would-be de-bunkers who bungled their major investigation, falsified the results, covered up their errors and gave the boot to a colleague (Dennis Rawlins) who threatened to tell the truth.”
---------

 Pretty fun stuff.   Randi himself is a Trickster.   A liar and cheat.  He has No interest
in proof of anything.  He merely makes his career out of sensationalism and
busting other tricksters.   Its highly doubtful he even has 1million dollars... and in
fact, his rules state that he does not have to prove that he does.   In most cases,
he can have a submitted application denied simply because he said so... with no
reason given.    The whole thing is a sham...  and it does nothing to further the
study and understanding of true paranormal events.

[Hoopz]

 Found on the Web:

Has to be true then...   

[Xiaou2]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE_UzmtUH7g&feature=related[/youtube]

 A challenge Against the Challenge.  Any takers?

[Xiaou2]

 At Psychic class,  we were to make a deck of cards.  Each card had:

 6 Colors
  - Red,  Orange,  Yellow,  Green,  Blue,  Purple

    And

4 Shapes  (maybe 5..  with 5th as a line.  Cant recall as been very long time)
 - Square, Triangle, Circle, Star


 So, a card could be a  Yellow circle,  Blue circle,  green triangle, purple square...etc.


 A person facing you would then look at the card, and try to transmit it to you.
You would then try to receive it... and then tell them what it was.

 The score was based on being either   'Right on',  'One before',  'One after'.
Each having a certain point value.

 If you selected green circle for the yellow triangle,  and the green circle came up
next.. you got some points for being precognitive.   Samely,  seeing the card that
just passed on the last turn was  Post Cognitive.

 
 After taking the test... I got almost nothing at all.   It was annoying and frusterating,
as well as disappointing.   Every week, I took the test I did and felt about the same.
Until about the 3rd week.. when my scores started to increase.   And soon I would
stared to see the images very clearly inside my head.  There was a certain feeling you
would get.   It was completely different from Guessing.  The image was like a bright
flashing neon light in your mind... and it just Popped in there immediately.

 This started out shaky... but in time, more and more were clear and correct.

 At one time, I had finished a reading with my father.   A pretty impressive run.  I picked
up the cards... shuffled them, and read them as I drew them myself.  I got 6 in a row
correct.   The possibility of this happening was insane.  My father witnessed
it... and his jaw hit the floor.

 A bit Later, I thought Id test my 2nd cousins innocent little 4yr(?) old girl.   I told her the rules, showed her the cards.. and began the test.   She got 5 in a row on the first try!  But, as I began to get excited,  she noticed it.  She started to think differently.  Instead of simply listening for the thought... she then was making her own thought.  A product of Ego. After that point... it was all down hill.
 
 Children at a certain age are more prone to experiencing intuitive and paranormal
events due to their open minds.  When their egos have not yet completely solidified
and closed things off.

[Hoopz]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Rza0c6hIg[/youtube]
Real science at work!

[1UP]

I can see the future.  A future where no one believes a thing Xiaou2 says, ever again.  

I'm glad your family and teachers humor you, but, well, I'll just stop there.  6 in a row is nothing ground shaking, well within the realm of coincidence.  I can win at rock paper scissors almost every time, doesn't make me a psychic, hehe.

[1UP]

Real science at work!

Hehe, hey X, didn't know you had an afro!   

[VespaGuy]

Found on the Web:

---------
Another interesting quote is about CSICOP, which is the organization which Randi headed sometime during his carreer:

    Fate Magazine said in its September 1983 issue, “They call themselves the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. In fact, they are a group of would-be de-bunkers who bungled their major investigation, falsified the results, covered up their errors and gave the boot to a colleague (Dennis Rawlins) who threatened to tell the truth.”
---------

I'm not one to use internet shorthand, but L-O-L. Your sole evidence that Randi cheats is from an article posted on a biased parapsychology blog that contains a snippet from an article printed in 1983 of nothing but baseless accusations!!

 

Pretty fun stuff.   Randi himself is a Trickster.

   

He's actually an accomplished stage magician. And who better to catch trickery?

A liar and cheat. 

Of course you supply no evidence of this.

He has No interest in proof of anything.  He merely makes his career out of sensationalism and busting other tricksters.   

He exposes frauds like Geller, Poppoff, and Brown who take advantage of people.

Its highly doubtful he even has 1million dollars... and in fact, his rules state that he does not have to prove that he does.   

Now who's the liar, Xiaou? Where in the rules does it state that? Is it before or after this part:

Anyone can verify that the money exists by requesting the information in writing from the JREF. They will in turn forward you the most recent account statement from Goldman Sachs.

Care to put your money where your mouth is and verify that the money exists, Xiaou? Of course you won't.

In most cases, he can have a submitted application denied simply because he said so... with no reason given.   

Still making stuff up as you go?

The whole thing is a sham...  and it does nothing to further the study and understanding of true paranormal events.

Once again, begging the question. First prove that paranormal events exist, and then we can worry about studying and understanding them.

 At Psychic class,  we were to make a deck of cards.  Each card had:
[snip]

Hilarious!!

So if you get the color right,
OR the shape right,
OR match the color of the previous card,
OR match the shape of the previous card,
OR match the color of the following card,
OR match the shape of the following card,
THEN you get points?!!

By these rules you'd have a better than 50% chance of getting points during each flip? I assure you that over time, your results would not be any better than random distribution.

[RayB]

Hilarious!!

So if you get the color right,
OR the shape right,
OR match the color of the previous card,
OR match the shape of the previous card,
OR match the color of the following card,
OR match the shape of the following card,
THEN you get points?!!

By these rules you'd have a better than 50% chance of getting points during each flip? I assure you that over time, your results would not be any better than random distribution.

No kidding! That seriously skews the odds in favor of the guesser. I'm curious how a computer would do choosing randomly...

Xiau2, got a list of the shape/color combinations and point values? I'd love to plug them into a program and see what kind of results come out, just out of curiosity.

[VespaGuy]

Hilarious!!

So if you get the color right,
OR the shape right,
OR match the color of the previous card,
OR match the shape of the previous card,
OR match the color of the following card,
OR match the shape of the following card,
THEN you get points?!!

By these rules you'd have a better than 50% chance of getting points during each flip? I assure you that over time, your results would not be any better than random distribution.

No kidding! That seriously skews the odds in favor of the guesser. I'm curious how a computer would do choosing randomly...

Xiau2, got a list of the shape/color combinations and point values? I'd love to plug them into a program and see what kind of results come out, just out of curiosity.

Not only that, but they cover all bases. If you match more of the following card, you're precognitive. If you match more of the previous card, you're postcognitive. IF you get a bunch right, you have ESP!! If you stop getting them correct upon further testing, you still have ESP, but your ego is in the way!! I bet that if you don't match any cards, you have negative ESP!!!

That's the problem with folks like X, nothing will ever prove to them that they are delusional.

[CheffoJeffo]

I go away for the weekend and look at what happens -- saint, it wasn't me ... for a change!

[1UP]

Go ahead and join in!  The school bully just pantsed himself and we're all taking our turn to point and laugh!   

Good stuff.  I'm archiving this thread before it gets deleted like the death train thread.  Would've loved to see that.

[FrizzleFried]

Go ahead and join in!  The school bully just pantsed himself and we're all taking our turn to point and laugh!   

Good stuff.  I'm archiving this thread before it gets deleted like the death train thread.  Would've loved to see that.

Here is some of the "death train" discussion...complete with photos and all (hahahahahahaha...ahem).  But you have to have P&R access...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77132.0

[Xiaou2]

 Wrong.  When I said I got 6 in a row correct... that meant getting both the shape
and color correct.  No pre or post - but the Exact shape and color on each draw.

 The color and shape are NOT counted as separate.  You either get both... or nothing.


 Unlike the test shown in ghost busters.. which only has one thing to get... you
must receive both things to get a score.

 Each draw of the cards gives at least 24 possible outcomes... if your deck was only
one of each card type.
 
 To do that 6 times in a row is insanity.


 As for the Detentions Centers..  most all on Railroad line... Nobody has proven
as to why over 600 of these were built recently and what their reason is for them.

 However, there is a new Law that Bush signed into reality - that allows
the US govt to label anyone a terrorist and toss you into those very Concentration camps.

 Each of these centers able to hold at very least of 20,000 people.   Some holding
4 times that many.   All over the Usa.   Hmm... Why the need for that much holding?!

 In fact, Megadeths new album will be about that very law. 

***
 Well, the facts have been released.  "Endgame".

www.fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/endgame.pdf

 The supposed official word is that these detention centers were built to house all the illegal aliens.  Of course, there is nothing stopping the govt from putting anyone of
you in there either.

 Do these centers have more sinister plans?  Whos to know for certain.  One thing
I can tell you, is that I dont trust Govt. one bit.   As population gets out of control...
there will more than likely be a true  'Judgment' day.   A time where peoples values are
weighed... and those found unworthy... are destroyed.

[Xiaou2]

 As for the point values... I dont recall.   I only remember that Pre and Post were
significantly lower than Dead on.


 Try it with: 

 1) You were getting the Previous card drawn =  10pts  (better than not even close)
 2) You got it 100% correct = 50 pts.
 3) You got the next card in line = 25 pts.
 

 Intuition is not an easy thing.  Its like trying to hear a whisper when you are
in the middle of a busy freeway.   But not just any whisper... a certain whisper
from a certain time period, from a certain dimension...  Among many other
whispers...  and further complicated by false whispers, such as interference,
change of mind (tricksters),  and even possibly mischievous Spirits.
 

 If you walk away with a score of something like 80 to 150  every week for several
weeks and you do not see the symbols in your mind.. and feel like its pointless,
are unconfident in your 'guess'  and do not even feel if and when it came... 

 and then all the sudden,  your score jumps up to 200 to 270,   you seeing the symbols clearly in your mind... and you feel when they arrive, and are confident in
what they are ... and then increases each week thereafter...  you know something
amazing is happening.


 Not to mention... when after a few months of this... you start to get actual
spontaneous Premonitions pop into your mind...


 And no... I do not get such things anymore... As I have stopped meditations
and any such practices.  I got what I needed... 'Proof of much more than meets
the eye'...  and I didnt feel the need to go further with it.

 I still however, have retained the positive results from meditations.  In deeper
breathing with improved capacity,  as well as a means to quiet and ease
my mind more so than the average joe.

 I also still do get the odd Intuition here and there... but its very rare, as I do not
pay attention anymore... and my mind is much too busy and loud to hear those
whispers anymore.

 (Those whispers that at one time, were like loud trumpets blaring at close range)

[VespaGuy]

Wrong.  When I said I got 6 in a row correct... that meant getting both the shape
and color correct.  No pre or post - but the Exact shape and color on each draw.

 The color and shape are NOT counted as separate.  You either get both... or nothing.

 Unlike the test shown in ghost busters.. which only has one thing to get... you
must receive both things to get a score.

 Each draw of the cards gives at least 24 possible outcomes... if your deck was only
one of each card type.
 
 To do that 6 times in a row is insanity.

Insanity, huh? An oddly appropriate description under the circumstances.

We see even greater odds seemingly broken every day when someone wins the state or multi-state lottery. Even if we were to take your word for your "6 right in a row" feat, it is proof of nothing. Now if you could replicate these same results under controlled conditions on  regular basis, then - and only then - would you have something worth looking into.

But you can't.

As for the Detentions Centers..  
[snip]

Ghosts, esp, conspiracy theories, detention centers. It's like a grab-bag of crazy!

[EwJ]

It's like a grab-bag of crazy!

heh heh
Custom title here we come.

[Xiaou2]

We see even greater odds seemingly broken every day when someone wins the state or multi-state lottery.

 The Lottery is Rigged.  Prove me wrong.

(also, the person who plays lotto does not have any sort of increase in skill level.
They simply chose a set of numbers and take a chance.  There is no progression
at all)

Even if we were to take your word

 Actually, that would be Two.  Me and my father.

it is proof of nothing

 Proof is in the pudding.  Try it yourself and see how much more difficult it is
that posting useless Drivel.

if you could replicate these same results under controlled conditions on  regular basis

 At that time, I probably could have led a convincing case for ESP.  Considering my
progression and increase in accuracy.   However, most do not understand such concepts
as Pre and Post..  interference, and the others Ive listed.   To them... its pure
back and white.  If you dont get 100%  all the time... you are a fraud.   Its pure BS.

 Which is exactly why Randi's test are BS.  Because he has the right to extend the
test indefinitely on his choosing.   Instead of getting  10 out of 10 correct... Its then
getting 1000 out of 1000.

 Just because the results are not 100% accurate all the time does not negate
significant increases in correct results over a time period.

 This is a Skeptics Cop-Out.   The Skeptic is not a truth seeker.  They dont do
research.  The do not seek out truth.  They only sling mud pies and burn witches
in the name of their crusade.

 Until you have put in at least 2hrs of meditations every day for 8 months, and have
practiced human to human esp transmission for at least half of that... you have
Nothing on me.

[Xiaou2]

And Btw - The law & detention centers are Very real.   Hence the actual Govt. PDF link:

www.fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/endgame.pdf

Of course, the rest of the laws which can put anyone in these centers is buried
within lawyer speak elsewhere.

Ohh,  and did I mention that there is video of the Army pulling over innocent
people at night  'ILLEGALLY'  in usa,  Practicing drills for Martial Law?

 Yup, Im the crazy one.   heh

[padstack]

We see even greater odds seemingly broken every day when someone wins the state or multi-state lottery.

 The Lottery is Rigged.  Prove me wrong.

(also, the person who plays lotto does not have any sort of increase in skill level.
They simply chose a set of numbers and take a chance.  There is no progression
at all)

Even if we were to take your word

 Actually, that would be Two.  Me and my father.

it is proof of nothing

 Proof is in the pudding.  Try it yourself and see how much more difficult it is
that posting useless Drivel.

if you could replicate these same results under controlled conditions on  regular basis

 At that time, I probably could have led a convincing case for ESP.  Considering my
progression and increase in accuracy.   However, most do not understand such concepts
as Pre and Post..  interference, and the others Ive listed.   To them... its pure
back and white.  If you dont get 100%  all the time... you are a fraud.   Its pure BS.

 Which is exactly why Randi's test are BS.  Because he has the right to extend the
test indefinitely on his choosing.   Instead of getting  10 out of 10 correct... Its then
getting 1000 out of 1000.

 Just because the results are not 100% accurate all the time does not negate
significant increases in correct results over a time period.

 This is a Skeptics Cop-Out.   The Skeptic is not a truth seeker.  They dont do
research.  The do not seek out truth.  They only sling mud pies and burn witches
in the name of their crusade.

 Until you have put in at least 2hrs of meditations every day for 8 months, and have
practiced human to human esp transmission for at least half of that... you have
Nothing on me.

If nothing else man, you don't give up...  Question is, did you KNOW that I was going to post that??

[Xiaou2]

If nothing else man, you don't give up...  Question is, did you KNOW that I was going to post that??

 It would seem very Illogical to most... to not only tell others about controversial
experiences.. but also to spend time and energy defending them with taking abuse
now wouldnt it?

 I have nothing to sell,  Nothing to gain.   Putting such things out could only
possibly do damages right?  So why do it?

 Do you think attention this negative is what I prefer?   Sorry, but Im not that
masochistic.   And, Ive provided plenty of  knowledge.  Actual
experiments for others to try for themselves.

 
 And, as Ive so written in my Previous post...  I no longer practice that stuff.
That was when I was 16 to 20.  Im now almost 36.   

 I was never a Natural born psychic.  However, I learned that anyone can get
some intuition with a lot of practice and meditations.   

 My mother was more of a natural... she claimed when she was very young,
could read minds word for word... not always understanding the words.   
Even she lost that ability without use.   And Ive wondered if that ability
wasnt just a by-product of a spirit who was whispering to her anyways.


 You also must understand the difference between agreed Mind to Mind
communication... and actual reading of Future events... and thoughts that were
not transmitted directly to the reader.

 Back when I was doing it... you could have sent me an image... and I may have
received it.   Today, you could send it all day long and I probably couldnt get it.

 The stuff I did was not very useful,  other than to prove to myself that there
was much more to the universe than meets the eye.  It helped put me give
me confidence about such things as Re-Incarnation,  which gave me less fear
of death.  As well as giving me new perspectives and enjoyment in the place and
time I exist in today.

[VespaGuy]

The Lottery is Rigged.  Prove me wrong.

That's not how it works. You make a claim. You supply the evidence. You claim the lottery is rigged? Prove it.

By the way, just curious, but how exactly is the lottery rigged?

(also, the person who plays lotto does not have any sort of increase in skill level.
They simply chose a set of numbers and take a chance.  There is no progression
at all)

 Actually, that would be Two.  Me and my father.

I missed your dad's post. I've only seen your claims.

Proof is in the pudding.  Try it yourself and see how much more difficult it is
that posting useless Drivel.

Useless drivel? Care to adress any of the statements you've been corrected on so far?

At that time, I probably could have led a convincing case for ESP.  Considering my
progression and increase in accuracy.   However, most do not understand such concepts
as Pre and Post..  interference, and the others Ive listed.   To them... its
back and white.  If you dont get 100%  all the time... you are a fraud.   Its pure BS.

 Which is exactly why Randi's test are BS.  Because he has the right to extend the
test indefinitely on his choosing.  Instead of getting  10 out of 10 correct... Its then
getting 1000 out of 1000.

Are you ignoring my posts, or are you just slow? Randi's tests are agreed upon by the claimant BEFORE testing begins. You are looking more and more foolish with each post. If you agree to have a trial of 50 attempts, and you agree that getting 45 out of 50 correct constitutes a 'win' then if you get 45 out of 50 correct, you win. It's THAT simple.

Just because the results are not 100% accurate all the time does not negate
significant increases in correct results over a time period.

Not only are they not 100% accurate all the time, they actually mirror the same results you'd get through random chance. Believers love to focus on the random groupings that appear normally from time to time.

This is a Skeptics Cop-Out. 

 

It's a copout to expect someone with an extraordinary claim to produce evidence that doesn't differ statistically from random chance?

The Skeptic is not a truth seeker.  They dont do research. 

Are you serious? Go to Randi's forums and ask anyone there about homeopathy. I guarantee that the average skeptic on that site knows more about homeopathy than most people who believe in it's effectiveness. The same goes for esp, ghosts, and any other paranormal topic you can think of. Just because a skeptic isn't dumb enough to pay money for a psychic class, doesn't mean they haven't done research.

The do not seek out truth.  They only sling mud pies and burn witches
in the name of their crusade.

The only people who burn witches are the ones who believe in witchcraft.

Until you have put in at least 2hrs of meditations every day for 8 months, and have
practiced human to human esp transmission for at least half of that... you have
Nothing on me.

Yes I do. I have 480 extra hours of my life that I haven't wasted on pure, unfiltered, nonsense.

[VespaGuy]

And Btw - The law & detention centers are Very real.   Hence the actual Govt. PDF link:

www.fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/endgame.pdf

Have you actually even read that document? It has absolutely nothing to do with detention centers. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

And this document - which is obviously not a secret at all - has an implimentation date from 2003-2012. We're halfway through 2009. It's been 6-1/2 years! Are they waiting until 2012 to start implimenting these not so secret detention centers? When will they start using them?

Of course, the rest of the laws which can put anyone in these centers is buried within lawyer speak elsewhere.

really? Where? Almost every claim you've made in this thread is supported by information you read somewhere, something you heard somewhere, or supported by your dad. Not a single thing you have claimed has been backed by a link to anything supporting it. You claim that there are laws that can put anyone in a make-believe detention center? Let's see them!!

Ohh,  and did I mention that there is video of the Army pulling over innocent
people at night  'ILLEGALLY'  in usa,  Practicing drills for Martial Law?

And yet, no link to this video.

Yup, Im the crazy one.   heh

No argument here.

[Xiaou2]

That's not how it works. You make a claim. You supply the evidence. You claim the lottery is rigged? Prove it.

 Wrong.   You believe its not rigged.   I believe it is.   If you Believe so strongly
that its not rigged, and are compelled to prove it... then do so. 

 You have no way to validate your belief.   You have just as much proof as Me.
However, my belief is much more realistic... believable, probable.

 

Are you ignoring my posts, or are you just slow? Randi's tests are agreed upon by the claimant BEFORE testing begins. You are looking more and more foolish with each post. If you agree to have a trial of 50 attempts, and you agree that getting 45 out of 50 correct constitutes a 'win' then if you get 45 out of 50 correct, you win. It's THAT simple.

 Ignoring useless drivel.  Why talk to a useless Brick wall?  It does nothing, and
is worth nothing.

 Randi afaik, has NEVER once signed and agreed to a single test.  Most people
attempting to get in are completely ignored - even if they have a valid belief
in what they can do.   

 He has even Backed out of a test agreement by some.

 Randi also isnt going to take  45 out of 50.  He isnt looking for that at all.  Hes looking
to make fools out of scammers.   He seeks Nothing to do with REAL paranormal
research... and so he isnt going to accept anything that even is remotely to
do with that.

 You arent going to get Randi to spend the month at a known hot-spot
haunted place... let alone a week,  and probably not even a day.  He simply does
not care.  In fact, he states that at the end of his spiel  about demons and such
not being accepted entries into the challenge.

 Hes somehow supposedly got 1 million  in extra funds to which he has a vested
interest in not giving away... And he has no interest in various aspects of paranormal
activity.   And he insists that any entry be accepted by media before any attempt
at all is accepted.  This all shows very clearly what Randi is Really all about.

 Hes a Scammer Himself.   No better than the people who he tries to defraud...
because he uses the same slimy tactics.

 Randi would do the world much better service proving the Lottery was rigged.

Not only are they not 100% accurate all the time, they actually mirror the same results you'd get through random chance. Believers love to focus on the random groupings that appear normally from time to time.

 Sorry,  but your dead Wrong.   My results have proven well beyond random chance.
Even if I was to ignore both me and another getting 5 or 6 in a row correct,  I would
be left with all the other evidence as Ive already layed out. 

 Skeptics with no experience in such fields are ill prepared to understand.  Its like a
4 yr old trying to understand the complexities of martial arts.   They may only get the
basic ideas... but are lost to the voluminous depths of the details.

Just because a skeptic isn't dumb enough to pay money for a psychic class, doesn't mean they haven't done research.

 If you never Swam in the water... How much could you theoretically understand
about Swimming?   All the books in the world couldnt really make you understand the
feelings, motions, and experience of an actual physical swim.

 If I was doing an investigation about swimming...  How good of an investigator would
I be if I never put so much as a Toe into the water?

 Developing your intuitive abilities is much more than you can realize with your
shallow surface knowledge and prejudices.   You have No experience with deep
meditations and the effects and feelings associated with them.  You have the smallest
of understandings.. and your prejudices and small minded-ness along with your
Ego prevent you from exploring the possibility.   You claim false victory, and you
revel in your ignorance.


 The very First big thing I did was blow some money on a "Healer"  to see if it was
real.. and what I would feel... If anything.    Well, I can tell you that I was not all
that impressed.  The man was very nice... but was trying to guess my Ill's when I
had none to my knowledge.   Yet, one thing I did notice was that as his hands
hovered several inches over me... I felt a tingle and heat that I had not felt before.
It was much more heat than the typical hand heat of a normal persons hand.

 The experience was enough to interest me to spend the measly $10  Per
Psychic class.   The experiences were well worth the money spent.

Yes I do. I have 480 extra hours of my life that I haven't wasted on pure, unfiltered, nonsense.

 Actually, this is exactly why I have not bothered to even reply to you.  Your
experience and attitude are so poor as not to even be worth it.

 The Meditations I did were probably the Best thing that Ive ever done in my
lifetime.   In only a few months... I was the most happiest Id ever been..
I felt as if I was Floating on a cloud when I was walking in my daily waking life.

 My mind was cleared.. and I finally was able to get to sleep easily.. where as
before, my mind would keep me up for Hours on end.

 My stress levels went down to near nothing.  And I learned how to become a
much better person.  I learned the damages / Downfalls  of Pride and Ego.
 
 I learned a few breathing techniques that have improved my health and well being.
Stuff that is Life-Long changing.    It has also given me a great advantage in
martial arts as well.   (many of the arts today have Lost the proper breathing
techniques, and as a result, are like 50% less powerful / effective)

 So, yeah... again... your response shows me the level of both maturity and
depth of understanding you have.   It shows me you are a zombie who believes
what you read word for word.. and are too lazy and or blinded to prove it
to yourself.

 You are a useless Brick Wall.  With little place to go.


 And Btw- If you had even done the smallest of research on Meditation.. You
would at least know the scientific findings of Value of it.  Of course,  knowing something
is good means very little.   Its true Experience that counts a thousand fold more.

[Xiaou2]

Have you actually even read that document? It has absolutely nothing to do with detention centers. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

And this document - which is obviously not a secret at all - has an implimentation date from 2003-2012. We're halfway through 2009. It's been 6-1/2 years! Are they waiting until 2012 to start implimenting these not so secret detention centers? When will they start using them?

 LOL.  You mean like the very TITLE?! 

"Endgame:   Office of Detention and Removal Strategic Plan.   Detention and removal
plan for a Secure Homeland"

 Read page 4 of the Executive Summary.    Geez.. I guess you are the one who cant
read...

 The detention centers were built recently.. and are now manned and operational.
There are over 600 of them littered all over the states.   You can look them up at
your leisure.  Most all of them are located next to rail lines - for easy transport
of human dumping to the sites.

 Weather it was carried out fully yet or not makes no difference.  The facts are
written on the PDF... which may have been leaked.  Not sure.   Your tax dollars
Built the 600 detention centers.. and are paying for them to be manned at this
very moment..  Thus the plan has not yet been Halted now has it?


(2000) Illegal Martial Law Training on US Streets:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Jux68F_AQ[/youtube]

[1UP]

For the love of all that is holy, Someone please make it STOP!

Wow.  I always knew you were stubborn but never figured just how BUGNUTS you really were.  I happen to believe in the constitution.  If people were suddenly being locked up in detention centers without due process, there would be a huge outcry, and it would not stand for long.  What possible purpose would there be to just round up innocent civilians at random and lock them in some kind of stateside Auschwitz?  So you're one of THOSE, eh?  Yikes.  Come back to reality my friend.  Please.

"The lottery is rigged. Prove me wrong."  That's like saying "My mother is Abraham Lincoln.  Prove me wrong."  How could I possibly prove either?  You're a perfect image of the "enlightened" type that is discussed in the "Open Mindedness" video above.  Total basket case.  Hoo-Faa!   

[VespaGuy]

Just. can't. stop. replying....

Wrong.   You believe its not rigged.   I believe it is.   If you Believe so strongly
that its not rigged, and are compelled to prove it... then do so.

 

I have no interest in the lottery. You made a claim. You refuse to back it up. Dodge noted.

You have no way to validate your belief.   You have just as much proof as Me.
However, my belief is much more realistic... believable, probable.

Yet, no evidence.

Ignoring useless drivel.  Why talk to a useless Brick wall?  It does nothing, and
is worth nothing.

I feel for you. I've corrected you dozens of times about Randi's challenge. A quick look at his rules contradicts many of the things that you claim the rules say. Yet, you continue....

Randi afaik, has NEVER once signed and agreed to a single test.  

Then you just aren't trying. Natasha Demkina was a high profile applicant tested in 2004. It even appeared on the Discovery Channel. There have been more since her. And he tests dowsers constantly.

Most people attempting to get in are completely ignored - even if they have a valid belief
in what they can do. He has even Backed out of a test agreement by some.

I've already corrected you on this. You continue to repeat falsehoods.

Randi also isnt going to take  45 out of 50.  He isnt looking for that at all.  

Actually, Randi is looking for statistical significance (I believe it's something like 1/1000 by random chance on the preliminary and 1/100,000 for the million dollar challenge, but you could look this up to be certain). 45 correct out of 50 would be acceptible to pass the preliminary challenge. Randi uses a similar setup constantly with dowsers.

Hes looking to make fools out of scammers.  

Not entirely. The scammers are smart enough to stay away.

He seeks Nothing to do with REAL paranormal research... and so he isnt going to accept anything that even is remotely to do with that.

Right. He doesn't do "REAL paranormal research", whatever that may be. No reason to. You claim you can do something? Then do it. No need to know how.. just do it. Unfortunately, nobody ever does.

You arent going to get Randi to spend the month at a known hot-spot  haunted place... let alone a week,  and probably not even a day.  

You are absolutely correct. Because creaky noises and drafty old houses aren't proof of ghosts. Again, if you actually ever get around to reading the rules, you'll realize that the claims have to be testable with self-evident results. I hate to inform you, but just like Benneth's challenge, having a haunted house is not a testable claim.

He simply does not care.  In fact, he states that at the end of his spiel about demons and such not being accepted entries into the challenge.

There are quite a few things that aren't acceptable: Breatharians, cloud-busters, and a few others aren't tested either for a variety of reasons. Some tests would cause harm to the applicant. Other claims are simply untestable. Demonic possesion falls into the latter.

Hes somehow supposedly got 1 million  in extra funds to which he has a vested interest in not giving away... And he has no interest in various aspects of paranormal activity.

 

The 1 million isn't in extra funds, it's in bonds. Randi will never, ever see that money. Nor will his foundation. It is there for the purpose of the challenge. If someone wins the money, it will have no financial effect on James Randi. I've already explained why somebody actually winning the money would be a good thing for Randi.

And he insists that any entry be accepted by media before any attempt at all is accepted.  This all shows very clearly what Randi is Really all about.

This is a newer rule that was added to stop everyone with a parlor trick from applying. It also has given him the time to go after the big fish - the ones who actually prey on innocent people. And if you truly have a parnormal ability, it shouldn't be hard to find a media outlet.

Hes a Scammer Himself.   No better than the people who he tries to defraud...because he uses the same slimy tactics.

Just because you keep repeating that doesn't make it true. Read the rules. Everything you say is false. Everything.

Sorry,  but your dead Wrong.   My results have proven well beyond random chance.
Even if I was to ignore both me and another getting 5 or 6 in a row correct,  I would
be left with all the other evidence as Ive already layed out.  

Then put your money where your mouth is. ONE MILLION DOLLARS is waiting for you!! ONE MILLION!! Not only that, but you could get a Noble Prize for discovering communication beyond the realm of science! Think of the advances we could make as humans if we could harness the power you claim to have?! And if Randi scams you, then you can go to the media. You can expose him as the fraud you claim he is!!

Wow. 1 million bucks! A Noble prize. Scientific breakthroughs!!!!
Just like every other one before you, you make up a million excuses why you won't do it.

Skeptics with no experience in such fields are ill prepared to understand.  Its like a 4 yr old trying to understand the complexities of martial arts.   They may only get the basic ideas... but are lost to the voluminous depths of the details.

Again. Skeptics don't care about what makes it work. Chi, meridians, vibrations,... it doesn't make a difference at all. Can you do what you claim, repeatedly under controlled conditions? Yes or no?

If you never Swam in the water... How much could you theoretically understand about Swimming?   All the books in the world couldnt really make you understand the feelings, motions, and experience of an actual physical swim. If I was doing an investigation about swimming...  How good of an investigator would I be if I never put so much as a Toe into the water?

If you told me that you could swim, I don't need to know one darn thing about swimming for you to prove it to me. All you need to do is tell me what swimming is ("I jump in the water, move my arms and travel the lenght of the pool without drowning). If you don't drown, you win. It's that simple. I don't care HOW you swim, I don't care about fluid dynamics, or how you breathe. Just show me that you CAN swim. It doesn't matter if I'm an olympic medalist, or if I grew up in a desert. If you can swim it will be self-evident.

Except when skeptics ask people like you to "swim", you won't do it. You tell us about the swim classes you took. You tell us abou the time you swam when you were younger. You tell us how your dad can vouch for you that you swam really good once before. When we ask you to just swim so we can watch, you tell us that you haven't swam in a while, so you're not good at it anymore. You tell us that you aren't in shape, and you'd need to work out before attempting to swim again. You tell us that the water is too hot, or too cold. Or in this paticular case, you tell us that you can't prove it to us because we haven't done research on swimming.

Here's the thing. We don't care. If you claim you can swim, then show us. If you claim you can read zener cards, then show us.

Developing your intuitive abilities is much more than you can realize with your
shallow surface knowledge and prejudices.   You have No experience with deep
meditations and the effects and feelings associated with them.  You have the smallest
of understandings.. and your prejudices and small minded-ness along with your
Ego prevent you from exploring the possibility.   You claim false victory, and you
revel in your ignorance.

I don't need to know anything about ESP to know that you can't do what you claim.

The very First big thing I did was blow some money on a "Healer"  to see if it was
real.. and what I would feel... If anything.    Well, I can tell you that I was not all
that impressed.  The man was very nice... but was trying to guess my Ill's when I
had none to my knowledge.   Yet, one thing I did notice was that as his hands
hovered several inches over me... I felt a tingle and heat that I had not felt before.
It was much more heat than the typical hand heat of a normal persons hand.

 The experience was enough to interest me to spend the measly $10  Per
Psychic class.   The experiences were well worth the money spent.

PT Barnum has a saying about people like you.

Actually, this is exactly why I have not bothered to even reply to you.  Your
experience and attitude are so poor as not to even be worth it.

You haven't replied to me because I have corrected you on just about every statement you've made regarding the James Randi Challenge. It's ok. I'd be embaressed, too.

The Meditations I did were probably the Best thing that Ive ever done in my
lifetime.   In only a few months... I was the most happiest Id ever been..
I felt as if I was Floating on a cloud when I was walking in my daily waking life.

[snip]

 So, yeah... again... your response shows me the level of both maturity and
depth of understanding you have.   It shows me you are a zombie who believes
what you read word for word.. and are too lazy and or blinded to prove it
to yourself.

Actually, I'm the quite the opposite. I believe that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You are a useless Brick Wall.  With little place to go.

 And Btw- If you had even done the smallest of research on Meditation.. You
would at least know the scientific findings of Value of it.  Of course,  knowing something
is good means very little.   Its true Experience that counts a thousand fold more.

I don't recall ever arguing about mediation. But since you rest on the "Scientific findings", what are the "scientific findings" of ESP?

[VespaGuy]

LOL.  You mean like the very TITLE?! 
"Endgame:   Office of Detention and Removal Strategic Plan.   Detention and removal
plan for a Secure Homeland"

This is a joke, right? You think that the use of the word "detention" in the title is proof of detention centers!! 

 

Read page 4 of the Executive Summary.    Geez.. I guess you are the one who cant read...

I read it again. Still nothing about these 600 detention centers or railroads. Can you quote the part for those of us who can't find it?

The detention centers were built recently..  and are now manned and operational.  There are over 600 of them littered all over the states. You can look them up at your leisure.  Most all of them are located next to rail lines - for easy transport of human dumping to the sites.

Nope.

Weather it was carried out fully yet or not makes no difference.  The facts are written on the PDF... which may have been leaked.  Not sure.   

Oh, so now it may be leaked? lol. Funny how when I pointed out how ridiculous it is to believe that a public government document would expose sooper-sekret detention camps, it suddenly became a possibly leaked document.

Your tax dollars Built the 600 detention centers.. and are paying for them to be manned at this very moment..  Thus the plan has not yet been Halted now has it?

Where are all of these manned detention centers?

(2000) Illegal Martial Law Training on US Streets:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Jux68F_AQ[/youtube]

So this is the video? A training exercise from 2000? Boy, what an ineffeicent government we have. Here it is 9 years later, and still no martial law. And the other sooper-sekret detention center operation is already 6-1/2 years old and we haven't used them at all yet!!!

First Benneth and now Alex Jones. Poor, poor xiaou2. You'll believe just about anything. Why don't you tell everyone who really pulled off 9/11, or about that soundstage in Mexico where the government taped the moon landing.   

[dreamakuma]

You know I read somewhere That electro magnetic fields(EMF's) In high levels can trick the mind Like thinking someone is watching you, or possibly causing temporary Paranoia, and said emf's are know to come from electroncs(mainly transfromers, fuseboxes, heavy duty stuff). Now I know What I belive and I can also accept what other do too... So I got a theory on the pac man. The electronic may have been old and maybe some wires were exposed and not insolated properly(were are talking quite an old cab). That Could cause some emf's to Be around the cab(I'm thinking that big ole isolation transfromer might have something to do with it). So whoever brings it into the house is effected by said emf's. Instant ghost. I mean at least I came up with a theory based in fact and resonable possibility. thought I might bring something to the table and stay on the pac-man.

[dreamakuma]

And possible way to mabye build some sort of a friendly bridge between open minded and scientific people here. May I sugguest look up the movie zeitgiest. Those of you who are open minded will have some things to think about, and those who are not can get a good laugh at the subject. I'm not gonna fight about facts an idea because I see both sides of the arguement here.

[RayB]

And possible way to mabye build some sort of a friendly bridge between open minded and scientific people here.

Those are the same people. Did you not watch the video on page 1?

[1UP]

Scientific = Truly Open Minded  (how would science have progressed without minds open to crazy new theories like relativity?)

"Open Minded" = Gullible.  It's what the easily duped have to call themselves to feel better.

[drventure]

Speaking of emf fields, I thought this art project was pretty slick....

http://www.inhabitat.com/2009/05/02/eco-art-field-of-beams/

[FrizzleFried]

See folks... like I said... as nuttier than king size Almond Joy...