Haunted Ms. Pacman Cabinet?

[FrizzleFried]

I'd like to believe. Scientific data is documentable, quantifiable, and reproducable. I'd like to see such data.

 Im sure with a little digging,  one can find documented scientific data on the
subject.  The problem is... that its usually brushed off as a fluke, malfunction,
and or archived away like it never happened.

 There is certain types of data that can be collected..  however, theres much more that
can not be. 

If a human eye can see it, a camera can record it. If a human ear can hear it, an audio recording can be made. If a human can feel a temperature change, a digital thermometer can record it.

You implied such scientific data existed - I can't find it. I'd like to see it.

I challenge you 'X"... present a SINGLE SHRED of verifiable evidence that ghosts exist and I will forever add "OWNED BY X" to my sig.

You can't.

Why?

Because there is none...

Along with the death trains (which we proved were ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---) and the death camps (also proven to be ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---),  you've concocted this ridiculousness in your head and ran with it.   Perhaps someone else planted the seeds?   Dunno...

Sheesh...

They also seem to be attracted to people who see them... such as
my mother, who sees them regularly.

This explains quite a lot. 

[isucamper]

If a human eye can see it, a camera can record it. If a human ear can hear it, an audio recording can be made. If a human can feel a temperature change, a digital thermometer can record it.

The thing is, there are thousands and thousands of videos, pictures, and sound recordings of ghosts and demons (just do a search in google).  Some of them are pretty creepy, but most of them are laughably ridiculous.

There may be real proof out there, but 99% of the material is fake and with so many people actively creating hoaxes its hard to take something seriously that might be real.

[FrizzleFried]

For the record... my mom also claims she's seen a ghost. 




...and I think she's a nutter too! 

 

[Todd H]

Haunted typewriter? Hmmm....

Maybe you should apply for Randi's Million Dollar Challenge?

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

The challenge has been around since 1964 and to this day nobody has been able to prove anything of a paranormal nature.

[FrizzleFried]

Haunted typewriter? Hmmm....

Maybe you should apply for Randi's Million Dollar Challenge?

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

The challenge has been around since 1964 and to this day nobody has been able to prove anything of a paranormal nature.

Well there you go...

X...mom could be rich!!

 

[Ginsu Victim]

I've got a friend who I had lost contact with over the years. In high school, we knew him as "the kooky guy", because he was a bit of a kook. The other day, I got back into contact with him via Myspace, and I found out what he's doing now:

http://www.insightparanormal.org

Still a kook, it seems....

[1UP]

In one book Ive read... it was said that the spirits who die get helped to their
new destinations by other helper / higher  spirits.    However, there are many
spirits who refuse to leave.   Some actually stay with their physical bodies
in the coffins ... waiting for "Jesus"  to come back and revive them to life.

Interesting.  Since the only people who could possibly have experienced this would have to be dead, I wonder how the author did his research...  And you call Occam's Razor drivel?  Excuse me while I roffle.      

Basically, you are telling us to ignore rational thinking or be skeptical about science--even though you use science to back up every other argument you make--and just believe anything you say?  Have you even watched the video posted earlier?  It might do you some good, although I doubt anything will ever get through to you in your alternate reality.  I don't think I'll even bother to argue with you about joysticks or switches again, you've just lost what little credibility you had.

For the record... my mom also claims she's seen a ghost. 

For the record, so has mine, but she is a very reasonable person.  But what she thinks she saw happened when she was a child.  My mom and all her sisters say they used to hear singing and talking under their house at night.  They even gave the ghost a name.  There are other anecdotes of cousins and such on her side that have seen some  mysterious person standing in an empty room after loved ones had died, but they were always very young children.  Which means one of two things: children have some property that makes them more likely to be able to see ghosts, or they have more active imaginations and are prone to exaggeration and less able to use critical thinking than adults.

[Xiaou2]

If a human eye can see it, a camera can record it. If a human ear can hear it, an audio recording can be made.

 Firstly,  you ignored my statements...  that certain people can see spirits - because
they are open to them,  and can view the other plane of existence.   In such a case,
only they would be able to view the spirit in visible form.

 Consciousness does not have to be visible either..   and yet, that does not mean
that it does not exist without physical form.  Can you prove consciousness without
form?  Imop.. there surly has to be... considering that this universe is way too
non-chaotic to be the way it is today.  Something with great intelligence had to form
the way this entire system operates.


 Now, why would ghosts be with form... such as clothing?   It boggles the mind!
My guess, is that the image in which they somehow are able to project. 
(or how the person who senses them is able to translate the information into
a visible format based on the information)   Then again, the ones seen may just be a static wrinkle in time...   a sort of 'captured' hologram of a past living life.   Who knows.

 Some do not so much as see the actual form of a spirit... yet then can get
glimpses of the spirits past memories.   And or they can hear and or read the spirits
emotions, and intentions... or even communicate with them.

 Such things are impressive... but very hard to prove.   For one... the connections
are not always very solid and true.  And that the spirits who chose to stay behind
are often lost and mischievous  - if not cold and mean in intentions.   Many spirits
that are contacted thru Ouija board are Liars... and are trying to attain a stronger
hold over their hosts so can gain control / possession. 

 

If a human can feel a temperature change, a digital thermometer can record it.

 I pretty much agree with you about this (though not completely certain).   When I
saw a ghost... I do not recall it being colder than normal.  Then again, I was about
12 ft away from it.   My mother said one spirit appeared next to her in her bed, and
woke because it was freezing cold - only to quickly discover why that was!

 There are some shows on tv that have captured significant drops in temperature
in very small localized areas.   However... like anyone, I suspect such shows as
being manipulated and fake.  Anyone could in fact rig up false equipment and
set up a funhouse worth of trickery.   

 The question would then be....  What scientist has captured true unexplained
severe temperature drops,  and what was done with the data?   Nobody is
going to believe the data.. or they will simply shrug it off.   Just like many Atheists
shurg off the fact that Something Intelligent had to have designed the universe
and set its components in action.   Stuff like this just does not get here for
no reason at all!

 Voices on digital recorders?  Again, supposedly many have captured them.
Will anyone Really take them seriously?   The only ones who might... would be the
people who were there at the site where they were captured.  And even that
could be tampered or faked.  And even If its real... again... who is really going
to take it as 100% fact?

 Simply put,  most people Dont want to believe in such a thing as a spirit.  It may
Ruin their entire perspectives on Religion, the way the afterlife works, their entire
view of life and how they may choose to see and live it.
 

 And Btw - The Great Randy is a scam in itself.   The guy has a vested interest in
not seeking the truth.  He also does not actively search nor research the topic of
interest.  Ive also heard of people considering signing up for a challenge, and
getting tons of complicated paperwork filled out... and any one error (which due
to its intended design is extremely easy to make)   will void the entire thing.   Not only
that... but He himself gets to make the rules...  which means he can cheat the
results.  I believe people have to pay him to come out...  as well as only 1 or 2
test are done per year.   I cant recall all the details... but it was an extremely sketchy
operation.   To even use him in an argument shows pure ignorance on the highest
level.

You implied such scientific data existed - I can't find it. I'd like to see it.

 I have no reason to dig so deep.  Ive already seen the stuff, and have many
other witnesses whom I believe and trust.

 However, if you are so interested.. I suggest starting out by asking people in
real-estate.   People who buy, rent and sell houses.   One of my recent bosses
was studying to become a realtor in his spare time.   Hes already heard several
stories from many other realtors about houses that have problems with them.

 Then start asking your closest of friends.  People who you know that do not lie, and
hold high integrity...  if they have ever experienced something out of the ordinary.
Make sure you do not do so as a joke... nor in a way that is suspectful.  But rather
genuinely interested.  Most people really do not want to tell their experiences,
because they dont want to be labeled as insane.

 

 My mother grew up with 5 other siblings + her mother,   in a very old haunted
house in the city.   It was very unusual, and had a few hidden passage ways
in it - most likely used when prohibition was in swing.   However, something bad
must have happened there... because there was a lot of activity there.

 At the age of only 3, my mom said that she had seen a man in a black trench
coat asking her to follow him.  Her mother had later reported this to her when
she got older.   She would point to the man, and ask her mother about him...
and nobody was there.
 
 Later:   Every night at a certain time... there were sounds of footsteps... which led
to the restroom.  Then the toilet would actually flush.  The kids tried to jump out and
see who it was... and there was never anyone there.

 I will spare my moms worst experiences, to save some nightmares... however,
this one is pretty messed up:

 My Moms Sister went to find my mother.  Opened her room door up.   My
mothers various photographs of people were spinning around the room... and the
faces on them were laughing.   My aunt quickly slammed the door closed, never to
go in there again.


 My mother hates liars.  Even the smallest of white lies I tried to tell as a kid.. and I was getting my hair nearly pulled out of my head by her.   My aunt, is also very honest.. and has no reason to lie about her experience.   My mother is a B*tch... but she, nor my
nice aunt are loony tunes.  Not even close.

[Todd H]

I see lots and lots of words and numerous claims but still no evidence to back any of it up. Something tells me this isn't worth my time.

[1UP]

Firstly,  you ignored my statements...  that certain people can see spirits - because
they are open to them,  and can view the other plane of existence.   In such a case,
only they would be able to view the spirit in visible form.

It's fun to pretend you have super powers.

Many spirits
that are contacted thru Ouija board are Liars... and are trying to attain a stronger
hold over their hosts so can gain control / possession. 

You don't seriously believe that a piece of printed cardboard mass produced by Milton Bradley is really a spritual gateway?   

[Xiaou2]

You don't seriously believe that a piece of printed cardboard mass produced by Milton Bradley is really a spritual gateway?

 Spiritual Communication devices have been developed since the times of
Ancient China, thousands of years ago.     The Ouija was not invented by a game
company.  It was bought by one.

 The Ouija is merely a tool.   Its the persons intention that means much more.
As that intent... to contact the other side... is a big key in opening a gateway.
The board does in some ways amplify that ability... because it allows easy
movement and precise method of communication. 

 The Ouija basically encourages a person to let a Spirit control their movements
through a connection with them.   This is a big step in the direction of possession.
You are giving the spirit power and permission, both over yourself,  as well as entry
into your life/realm.

 
 Most would simply have a funny game out of the thing.. because there are many
non-believers who are intentionally steering the thing.   Some simply have their
sub-conscious mind take over and create works of fabrication.   However, there
are those who actually do make contact...  and when it happens, it can be very
bad.   In fact, according to what Ive read.. the most and worst cases of 
Demonic/Spiritual  harassment has been caused by use of the Ouija.

 A persons ability to connect and develop a more clear and powerful pathway - grows
stronger the more that they use it.   


 

It's fun to pretend you have super powers.

 We are all super powers.   Anyone can develop and enhance their own
intuitive abilities.   Starting with daily hour long meditations.   Where one learns to
quiet the   "self/ego"  ...and then can actually hear and sense things that they
once could not.

 At one point in time (about ages 17 to 20), I went on a quest for higher truths.  Found a class that gave intuitive instruction.   After a few months time in class + doing 2hrs a day worth of meditations,   my horrible scores on my  ESP test were getting good, and got
about 10 points higher each week.  Eventually I was actually getting spontaneous premonitions.  These of which were of the near future.. and came true hours later in the same day.   The stuff was quite amazing.  Though admittedly, a bit scary. 


 The universe is much more mystical than many humans tend to want to admit.

[Justin Z]

OMFG GHOSTS RUN

[VespaGuy]

You don't seriously believe that a piece of printed cardboard mass produced by Milton Bradley is really a spritual gateway?

 Spiritual Communication devices have been developed since the times of
Ancient China, thousands of years ago.

 

And since the times of Ancient China, not a single one has been proven to contact spirits from beyind.

The Ouija was not invented by a game company.  It was bought by one.

Becuase is is nothing more than a fun toy for young girls at slumber parties.

 

The Ouija is merely a tool.   

That's not the only tool in this thread...

Its the persons intention that means much more.
As that intent... to contact the other side... is a big key in opening a gateway.
The board does in some ways amplify that ability... because it allows easy
movement and precise method of communication. 

 The Ouija basically encourages a person to let a Spirit control their movements
through a connection with them.   This is a big step in the direction of possession.
You are giving the spirit power and permission, both over yourself,  as well as entry
into your life/realm.

 
 Most would simply have a funny game out of the thing.. because there are many
non-believers who are intentionally steering the thing.   Some simply have their
sub-conscious mind take over and create works of fabrication.   

The oujia board can easily be explained by the ideomotor effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect

However, there are those who actually do make contact...  and when it happens, it can be very
bad.   In fact, according to what Ive read.. the most and worst cases of Demonic/Spiritual harassment has been caused by use of the Ouija.

This is just begging the question.

A persons ability to connect and develop a more clear and powerful pathway - grows
stronger the more that they use it.   

You'll notice that spirit communication will suddenly stop, or turn to gibberish, if the participants are blindfolded. Why is that? Hmmm...

 

We are all super powers.   Anyone can develop and enhance their own
intuitive abilities.   Starting with daily hour long meditations.   Where one learns to
quiet the   "self/ego"  ...and then can actually hear and sense things that they
once could not.

 At one point in time (about ages 17 to 20), I went on a quest for higher truths.  Found a class that gave intuitive instruction.   After a few months time in class + doing 2hrs a day worth of meditations,   my horrible scores on my  ESP test were getting good, and got
about 10 points higher each week.  Eventually I was actually getting spontaneous premonitions.  These of which were of the near future.. and came true hours later in the same day.   The stuff was quite amazing.  Though admittedly, a bit scary. 

Sounds like you've claimed something you can actually demonstrate. How'd you like a cool million dollars? James Randi is offering 1 million dollars for proof of the paranormal. 2 hours a day seems like a small sacrifice for 1 million dollars!

I have ESP, too. I predict that you will have an excuse why you won't make an effort to demonstrate your ability for one million dollars (and possibly turning science on it's ear!!)

The universe is much more mystical than many humans tend to want to admit.

And it was even more mystical thousands of years ago. It's funny that the more we understand about the universe, the less mystical it is.

[VespaGuy]

And Btw - The Great Randy is a scam in itself.

So much wrong in one paragraph.

The guy has a vested interest in not seeking the truth. 

Wrong.

Proving the paranormal would be a ground-breaking discovery. The entire framework of science would be turned upside down. This would be of such magnitude that the million dollars would pale in comparison.

He also does not actively search nor research the topic of interest. 

Why should he? He doesn't care how you do what you claim. He only cares that you can do what you claim. If you can do it, and it's not be non-paranormal means, you've just won 1 million dollars.

Ive also heard of people considering signing up for a challenge, and getting tons of complicated paperwork filled out... and any one error (which due to its intended design is extremely easy to make)   will void the entire thing.

   

Wrong.

Most claims are dropped because the claimant refuses to make a testifiable claim. Many of the claims they receive read like the hogwash you've peppered the thread with; "you need to be open to spirits to see them, blah, blah, blah", etc. But they never actually make a claim of what they can do. As I said earlier, they don't care how you claim to do your supernatural trick, just tell them WHAT you can do and do it. It's very simple, but most claimants can't make it pass this first step.

Not only that... but He himself gets to make the rules... 

Wrong.

The foundation and the claimant design a protocol together that will produce obvious results to all involved. Just like any scientific test, double-blinds and controls are used, and it's usually at this point that any claimants who've made it this far drop out. See, when controls are used, the supernatural effect always dissappears.

which means he can cheat the results. 

Double wrong!

First, all tests are designed so that the results are obvious to everyone. If you claim that you can read zener cards, you would agree on an amount that would qualify as a win (and seperate the results from random chance). So if you say that you can read zener cards and get 18 out of 20 correct, and you get 15 out of 20 correct, you lose. Simple as that. There is NO WAY to cheat.

And secondly, you'll be happy to know that Randi isn't even involved in most preliminary tests! They're usually done by independent groups.

I believe people have to pay him to come out... 

Wrong.

As stated above, the foundation does it's best attempt to finding a testing facility close to the claimant. Yes, the travel is paid for by the claimant. But isn't that a drop in the bucket considering the million dollars to be won?

as well as only 1 or 2 test are done per year. 

Wrong. 

The number of tests done is directly proportional to the number of applicants who make it through to the preliminary testing. There is no "backlog" of claimants waiting for their turn.

I cant recall all the details... but it was an extremely sketchy operation.   

You can't recall all the details? You apparently can't recall any details. You couldn't be more wrong about every detail if you tried.
 

To even use him in an argument shows pure ignorance on the highest level.

It is obvious where the ignorance lies.

[1UP]

Holy crap, he knows Kung Fu AND has ESP!  We'd better stop messing with this guy.   

 

[retrometro]

I think this thread needs to be closed or moved to "Everything Else".  ...or at least if someone turns this bus back around into talking about the Ms Pacman cab.

[Xiaou2]

 Found on the Web:

---------
Another interesting quote is about CSICOP, which is the organization which Randi headed sometime during his carreer:

    Fate Magazine said in its September 1983 issue, “They call themselves the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. In fact, they are a group of would-be de-bunkers who bungled their major investigation, falsified the results, covered up their errors and gave the boot to a colleague (Dennis Rawlins) who threatened to tell the truth.”
---------

 Pretty fun stuff.   Randi himself is a Trickster.   A liar and cheat.  He has No interest
in proof of anything.  He merely makes his career out of sensationalism and
busting other tricksters.   Its highly doubtful he even has 1million dollars... and in
fact, his rules state that he does not have to prove that he does.   In most cases,
he can have a submitted application denied simply because he said so... with no
reason given.    The whole thing is a sham...  and it does nothing to further the
study and understanding of true paranormal events.

[Hoopz]

 Found on the Web:

Has to be true then...   

[Xiaou2]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE_UzmtUH7g&feature=related[/youtube]

 A challenge Against the Challenge.  Any takers?

[Xiaou2]

 At Psychic class,  we were to make a deck of cards.  Each card had:

 6 Colors
  - Red,  Orange,  Yellow,  Green,  Blue,  Purple

    And

4 Shapes  (maybe 5..  with 5th as a line.  Cant recall as been very long time)
 - Square, Triangle, Circle, Star


 So, a card could be a  Yellow circle,  Blue circle,  green triangle, purple square...etc.


 A person facing you would then look at the card, and try to transmit it to you.
You would then try to receive it... and then tell them what it was.

 The score was based on being either   'Right on',  'One before',  'One after'.
Each having a certain point value.

 If you selected green circle for the yellow triangle,  and the green circle came up
next.. you got some points for being precognitive.   Samely,  seeing the card that
just passed on the last turn was  Post Cognitive.

 
 After taking the test... I got almost nothing at all.   It was annoying and frusterating,
as well as disappointing.   Every week, I took the test I did and felt about the same.
Until about the 3rd week.. when my scores started to increase.   And soon I would
stared to see the images very clearly inside my head.  There was a certain feeling you
would get.   It was completely different from Guessing.  The image was like a bright
flashing neon light in your mind... and it just Popped in there immediately.

 This started out shaky... but in time, more and more were clear and correct.

 At one time, I had finished a reading with my father.   A pretty impressive run.  I picked
up the cards... shuffled them, and read them as I drew them myself.  I got 6 in a row
correct.   The possibility of this happening was insane.  My father witnessed
it... and his jaw hit the floor.

 A bit Later, I thought Id test my 2nd cousins innocent little 4yr(?) old girl.   I told her the rules, showed her the cards.. and began the test.   She got 5 in a row on the first try!  But, as I began to get excited,  she noticed it.  She started to think differently.  Instead of simply listening for the thought... she then was making her own thought.  A product of Ego. After that point... it was all down hill.
 
 Children at a certain age are more prone to experiencing intuitive and paranormal
events due to their open minds.  When their egos have not yet completely solidified
and closed things off.

[Hoopz]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Rza0c6hIg[/youtube]
Real science at work!

[1UP]

I can see the future.  A future where no one believes a thing Xiaou2 says, ever again.  

I'm glad your family and teachers humor you, but, well, I'll just stop there.  6 in a row is nothing ground shaking, well within the realm of coincidence.  I can win at rock paper scissors almost every time, doesn't make me a psychic, hehe.

[1UP]

Real science at work!

Hehe, hey X, didn't know you had an afro!   

[VespaGuy]

Found on the Web:

---------
Another interesting quote is about CSICOP, which is the organization which Randi headed sometime during his carreer:

    Fate Magazine said in its September 1983 issue, “They call themselves the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. In fact, they are a group of would-be de-bunkers who bungled their major investigation, falsified the results, covered up their errors and gave the boot to a colleague (Dennis Rawlins) who threatened to tell the truth.”
---------

I'm not one to use internet shorthand, but L-O-L. Your sole evidence that Randi cheats is from an article posted on a biased parapsychology blog that contains a snippet from an article printed in 1983 of nothing but baseless accusations!!

 

Pretty fun stuff.   Randi himself is a Trickster.

   

He's actually an accomplished stage magician. And who better to catch trickery?

A liar and cheat. 

Of course you supply no evidence of this.

He has No interest in proof of anything.  He merely makes his career out of sensationalism and busting other tricksters.   

He exposes frauds like Geller, Poppoff, and Brown who take advantage of people.

Its highly doubtful he even has 1million dollars... and in fact, his rules state that he does not have to prove that he does.   

Now who's the liar, Xiaou? Where in the rules does it state that? Is it before or after this part:

Anyone can verify that the money exists by requesting the information in writing from the JREF. They will in turn forward you the most recent account statement from Goldman Sachs.

Care to put your money where your mouth is and verify that the money exists, Xiaou? Of course you won't.

In most cases, he can have a submitted application denied simply because he said so... with no reason given.   

Still making stuff up as you go?

The whole thing is a sham...  and it does nothing to further the study and understanding of true paranormal events.

Once again, begging the question. First prove that paranormal events exist, and then we can worry about studying and understanding them.

 At Psychic class,  we were to make a deck of cards.  Each card had:
[snip]

Hilarious!!

So if you get the color right,
OR the shape right,
OR match the color of the previous card,
OR match the shape of the previous card,
OR match the color of the following card,
OR match the shape of the following card,
THEN you get points?!!

By these rules you'd have a better than 50% chance of getting points during each flip? I assure you that over time, your results would not be any better than random distribution.

[RayB]

Hilarious!!

So if you get the color right,
OR the shape right,
OR match the color of the previous card,
OR match the shape of the previous card,
OR match the color of the following card,
OR match the shape of the following card,
THEN you get points?!!

By these rules you'd have a better than 50% chance of getting points during each flip? I assure you that over time, your results would not be any better than random distribution.

No kidding! That seriously skews the odds in favor of the guesser. I'm curious how a computer would do choosing randomly...

Xiau2, got a list of the shape/color combinations and point values? I'd love to plug them into a program and see what kind of results come out, just out of curiosity.

[VespaGuy]

Hilarious!!

So if you get the color right,
OR the shape right,
OR match the color of the previous card,
OR match the shape of the previous card,
OR match the color of the following card,
OR match the shape of the following card,
THEN you get points?!!

By these rules you'd have a better than 50% chance of getting points during each flip? I assure you that over time, your results would not be any better than random distribution.

No kidding! That seriously skews the odds in favor of the guesser. I'm curious how a computer would do choosing randomly...

Xiau2, got a list of the shape/color combinations and point values? I'd love to plug them into a program and see what kind of results come out, just out of curiosity.

Not only that, but they cover all bases. If you match more of the following card, you're precognitive. If you match more of the previous card, you're postcognitive. IF you get a bunch right, you have ESP!! If you stop getting them correct upon further testing, you still have ESP, but your ego is in the way!! I bet that if you don't match any cards, you have negative ESP!!!

That's the problem with folks like X, nothing will ever prove to them that they are delusional.

[CheffoJeffo]

I go away for the weekend and look at what happens -- saint, it wasn't me ... for a change!

[1UP]

Go ahead and join in!  The school bully just pantsed himself and we're all taking our turn to point and laugh!   

Good stuff.  I'm archiving this thread before it gets deleted like the death train thread.  Would've loved to see that.

[FrizzleFried]

Go ahead and join in!  The school bully just pantsed himself and we're all taking our turn to point and laugh!   

Good stuff.  I'm archiving this thread before it gets deleted like the death train thread.  Would've loved to see that.

Here is some of the "death train" discussion...complete with photos and all (hahahahahahaha...ahem).  But you have to have P&R access...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=77132.0

[Xiaou2]

 Wrong.  When I said I got 6 in a row correct... that meant getting both the shape
and color correct.  No pre or post - but the Exact shape and color on each draw.

 The color and shape are NOT counted as separate.  You either get both... or nothing.


 Unlike the test shown in ghost busters.. which only has one thing to get... you
must receive both things to get a score.

 Each draw of the cards gives at least 24 possible outcomes... if your deck was only
one of each card type.
 
 To do that 6 times in a row is insanity.


 As for the Detentions Centers..  most all on Railroad line... Nobody has proven
as to why over 600 of these were built recently and what their reason is for them.

 However, there is a new Law that Bush signed into reality - that allows
the US govt to label anyone a terrorist and toss you into those very Concentration camps.

 Each of these centers able to hold at very least of 20,000 people.   Some holding
4 times that many.   All over the Usa.   Hmm... Why the need for that much holding?!

 In fact, Megadeths new album will be about that very law. 

***
 Well, the facts have been released.  "Endgame".

www.fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/endgame.pdf

 The supposed official word is that these detention centers were built to house all the illegal aliens.  Of course, there is nothing stopping the govt from putting anyone of
you in there either.

 Do these centers have more sinister plans?  Whos to know for certain.  One thing
I can tell you, is that I dont trust Govt. one bit.   As population gets out of control...
there will more than likely be a true  'Judgment' day.   A time where peoples values are
weighed... and those found unworthy... are destroyed.

[Xiaou2]

 As for the point values... I dont recall.   I only remember that Pre and Post were
significantly lower than Dead on.


 Try it with: 

 1) You were getting the Previous card drawn =  10pts  (better than not even close)
 2) You got it 100% correct = 50 pts.
 3) You got the next card in line = 25 pts.
 

 Intuition is not an easy thing.  Its like trying to hear a whisper when you are
in the middle of a busy freeway.   But not just any whisper... a certain whisper
from a certain time period, from a certain dimension...  Among many other
whispers...  and further complicated by false whispers, such as interference,
change of mind (tricksters),  and even possibly mischievous Spirits.
 

 If you walk away with a score of something like 80 to 150  every week for several
weeks and you do not see the symbols in your mind.. and feel like its pointless,
are unconfident in your 'guess'  and do not even feel if and when it came... 

 and then all the sudden,  your score jumps up to 200 to 270,   you seeing the symbols clearly in your mind... and you feel when they arrive, and are confident in
what they are ... and then increases each week thereafter...  you know something
amazing is happening.


 Not to mention... when after a few months of this... you start to get actual
spontaneous Premonitions pop into your mind...


 And no... I do not get such things anymore... As I have stopped meditations
and any such practices.  I got what I needed... 'Proof of much more than meets
the eye'...  and I didnt feel the need to go further with it.

 I still however, have retained the positive results from meditations.  In deeper
breathing with improved capacity,  as well as a means to quiet and ease
my mind more so than the average joe.

 I also still do get the odd Intuition here and there... but its very rare, as I do not
pay attention anymore... and my mind is much too busy and loud to hear those
whispers anymore.

 (Those whispers that at one time, were like loud trumpets blaring at close range)

[VespaGuy]

Wrong.  When I said I got 6 in a row correct... that meant getting both the shape
and color correct.  No pre or post - but the Exact shape and color on each draw.

 The color and shape are NOT counted as separate.  You either get both... or nothing.

 Unlike the test shown in ghost busters.. which only has one thing to get... you
must receive both things to get a score.

 Each draw of the cards gives at least 24 possible outcomes... if your deck was only
one of each card type.
 
 To do that 6 times in a row is insanity.

Insanity, huh? An oddly appropriate description under the circumstances.

We see even greater odds seemingly broken every day when someone wins the state or multi-state lottery. Even if we were to take your word for your "6 right in a row" feat, it is proof of nothing. Now if you could replicate these same results under controlled conditions on  regular basis, then - and only then - would you have something worth looking into.

But you can't.

As for the Detentions Centers..  
[snip]

Ghosts, esp, conspiracy theories, detention centers. It's like a grab-bag of crazy!

[EwJ]

It's like a grab-bag of crazy!

heh heh
Custom title here we come.

[Xiaou2]

We see even greater odds seemingly broken every day when someone wins the state or multi-state lottery.

 The Lottery is Rigged.  Prove me wrong.

(also, the person who plays lotto does not have any sort of increase in skill level.
They simply chose a set of numbers and take a chance.  There is no progression
at all)

Even if we were to take your word

 Actually, that would be Two.  Me and my father.

it is proof of nothing

 Proof is in the pudding.  Try it yourself and see how much more difficult it is
that posting useless Drivel.

if you could replicate these same results under controlled conditions on  regular basis

 At that time, I probably could have led a convincing case for ESP.  Considering my
progression and increase in accuracy.   However, most do not understand such concepts
as Pre and Post..  interference, and the others Ive listed.   To them... its pure
back and white.  If you dont get 100%  all the time... you are a fraud.   Its pure BS.

 Which is exactly why Randi's test are BS.  Because he has the right to extend the
test indefinitely on his choosing.   Instead of getting  10 out of 10 correct... Its then
getting 1000 out of 1000.

 Just because the results are not 100% accurate all the time does not negate
significant increases in correct results over a time period.

 This is a Skeptics Cop-Out.   The Skeptic is not a truth seeker.  They dont do
research.  The do not seek out truth.  They only sling mud pies and burn witches
in the name of their crusade.

 Until you have put in at least 2hrs of meditations every day for 8 months, and have
practiced human to human esp transmission for at least half of that... you have
Nothing on me.

[Xiaou2]

And Btw - The law & detention centers are Very real.   Hence the actual Govt. PDF link:

www.fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/endgame.pdf

Of course, the rest of the laws which can put anyone in these centers is buried
within lawyer speak elsewhere.

Ohh,  and did I mention that there is video of the Army pulling over innocent
people at night  'ILLEGALLY'  in usa,  Practicing drills for Martial Law?

 Yup, Im the crazy one.   heh

[padstack]

We see even greater odds seemingly broken every day when someone wins the state or multi-state lottery.

 The Lottery is Rigged.  Prove me wrong.

(also, the person who plays lotto does not have any sort of increase in skill level.
They simply chose a set of numbers and take a chance.  There is no progression
at all)

Even if we were to take your word

 Actually, that would be Two.  Me and my father.

it is proof of nothing

 Proof is in the pudding.  Try it yourself and see how much more difficult it is
that posting useless Drivel.

if you could replicate these same results under controlled conditions on  regular basis

 At that time, I probably could have led a convincing case for ESP.  Considering my
progression and increase in accuracy.   However, most do not understand such concepts
as Pre and Post..  interference, and the others Ive listed.   To them... its pure
back and white.  If you dont get 100%  all the time... you are a fraud.   Its pure BS.

 Which is exactly why Randi's test are BS.  Because he has the right to extend the
test indefinitely on his choosing.   Instead of getting  10 out of 10 correct... Its then
getting 1000 out of 1000.

 Just because the results are not 100% accurate all the time does not negate
significant increases in correct results over a time period.

 This is a Skeptics Cop-Out.   The Skeptic is not a truth seeker.  They dont do
research.  The do not seek out truth.  They only sling mud pies and burn witches
in the name of their crusade.

 Until you have put in at least 2hrs of meditations every day for 8 months, and have
practiced human to human esp transmission for at least half of that... you have
Nothing on me.

If nothing else man, you don't give up...  Question is, did you KNOW that I was going to post that??

[Xiaou2]

If nothing else man, you don't give up...  Question is, did you KNOW that I was going to post that??

 It would seem very Illogical to most... to not only tell others about controversial
experiences.. but also to spend time and energy defending them with taking abuse
now wouldnt it?

 I have nothing to sell,  Nothing to gain.   Putting such things out could only
possibly do damages right?  So why do it?

 Do you think attention this negative is what I prefer?   Sorry, but Im not that
masochistic.   And, Ive provided plenty of  knowledge.  Actual
experiments for others to try for themselves.

 
 And, as Ive so written in my Previous post...  I no longer practice that stuff.
That was when I was 16 to 20.  Im now almost 36.   

 I was never a Natural born psychic.  However, I learned that anyone can get
some intuition with a lot of practice and meditations.   

 My mother was more of a natural... she claimed when she was very young,
could read minds word for word... not always understanding the words.   
Even she lost that ability without use.   And Ive wondered if that ability
wasnt just a by-product of a spirit who was whispering to her anyways.


 You also must understand the difference between agreed Mind to Mind
communication... and actual reading of Future events... and thoughts that were
not transmitted directly to the reader.

 Back when I was doing it... you could have sent me an image... and I may have
received it.   Today, you could send it all day long and I probably couldnt get it.

 The stuff I did was not very useful,  other than to prove to myself that there
was much more to the universe than meets the eye.  It helped put me give
me confidence about such things as Re-Incarnation,  which gave me less fear
of death.  As well as giving me new perspectives and enjoyment in the place and
time I exist in today.

[VespaGuy]

The Lottery is Rigged.  Prove me wrong.

That's not how it works. You make a claim. You supply the evidence. You claim the lottery is rigged? Prove it.

By the way, just curious, but how exactly is the lottery rigged?

(also, the person who plays lotto does not have any sort of increase in skill level.
They simply chose a set of numbers and take a chance.  There is no progression
at all)

 Actually, that would be Two.  Me and my father.

I missed your dad's post. I've only seen your claims.

Proof is in the pudding.  Try it yourself and see how much more difficult it is
that posting useless Drivel.

Useless drivel? Care to adress any of the statements you've been corrected on so far?

At that time, I probably could have led a convincing case for ESP.  Considering my
progression and increase in accuracy.   However, most do not understand such concepts
as Pre and Post..  interference, and the others Ive listed.   To them... its
back and white.  If you dont get 100%  all the time... you are a fraud.   Its pure BS.

 Which is exactly why Randi's test are BS.  Because he has the right to extend the
test indefinitely on his choosing.  Instead of getting  10 out of 10 correct... Its then
getting 1000 out of 1000.

Are you ignoring my posts, or are you just slow? Randi's tests are agreed upon by the claimant BEFORE testing begins. You are looking more and more foolish with each post. If you agree to have a trial of 50 attempts, and you agree that getting 45 out of 50 correct constitutes a 'win' then if you get 45 out of 50 correct, you win. It's THAT simple.

Just because the results are not 100% accurate all the time does not negate
significant increases in correct results over a time period.

Not only are they not 100% accurate all the time, they actually mirror the same results you'd get through random chance. Believers love to focus on the random groupings that appear normally from time to time.

This is a Skeptics Cop-Out. 

 

It's a copout to expect someone with an extraordinary claim to produce evidence that doesn't differ statistically from random chance?

The Skeptic is not a truth seeker.  They dont do research. 

Are you serious? Go to Randi's forums and ask anyone there about homeopathy. I guarantee that the average skeptic on that site knows more about homeopathy than most people who believe in it's effectiveness. The same goes for esp, ghosts, and any other paranormal topic you can think of. Just because a skeptic isn't dumb enough to pay money for a psychic class, doesn't mean they haven't done research.

The do not seek out truth.  They only sling mud pies and burn witches
in the name of their crusade.

The only people who burn witches are the ones who believe in witchcraft.

Until you have put in at least 2hrs of meditations every day for 8 months, and have
practiced human to human esp transmission for at least half of that... you have
Nothing on me.

Yes I do. I have 480 extra hours of my life that I haven't wasted on pure, unfiltered, nonsense.

[VespaGuy]

And Btw - The law & detention centers are Very real.   Hence the actual Govt. PDF link:

www.fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/endgame.pdf

Have you actually even read that document? It has absolutely nothing to do with detention centers. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

And this document - which is obviously not a secret at all - has an implimentation date from 2003-2012. We're halfway through 2009. It's been 6-1/2 years! Are they waiting until 2012 to start implimenting these not so secret detention centers? When will they start using them?

Of course, the rest of the laws which can put anyone in these centers is buried within lawyer speak elsewhere.

really? Where? Almost every claim you've made in this thread is supported by information you read somewhere, something you heard somewhere, or supported by your dad. Not a single thing you have claimed has been backed by a link to anything supporting it. You claim that there are laws that can put anyone in a make-believe detention center? Let's see them!!

Ohh,  and did I mention that there is video of the Army pulling over innocent
people at night  'ILLEGALLY'  in usa,  Practicing drills for Martial Law?

And yet, no link to this video.

Yup, Im the crazy one.   heh

No argument here.

[Xiaou2]

That's not how it works. You make a claim. You supply the evidence. You claim the lottery is rigged? Prove it.

 Wrong.   You believe its not rigged.   I believe it is.   If you Believe so strongly
that its not rigged, and are compelled to prove it... then do so. 

 You have no way to validate your belief.   You have just as much proof as Me.
However, my belief is much more realistic... believable, probable.

 

Are you ignoring my posts, or are you just slow? Randi's tests are agreed upon by the claimant BEFORE testing begins. You are looking more and more foolish with each post. If you agree to have a trial of 50 attempts, and you agree that getting 45 out of 50 correct constitutes a 'win' then if you get 45 out of 50 correct, you win. It's THAT simple.

 Ignoring useless drivel.  Why talk to a useless Brick wall?  It does nothing, and
is worth nothing.

 Randi afaik, has NEVER once signed and agreed to a single test.  Most people
attempting to get in are completely ignored - even if they have a valid belief
in what they can do.   

 He has even Backed out of a test agreement by some.

 Randi also isnt going to take  45 out of 50.  He isnt looking for that at all.  Hes looking
to make fools out of scammers.   He seeks Nothing to do with REAL paranormal
research... and so he isnt going to accept anything that even is remotely to
do with that.

 You arent going to get Randi to spend the month at a known hot-spot
haunted place... let alone a week,  and probably not even a day.  He simply does
not care.  In fact, he states that at the end of his spiel  about demons and such
not being accepted entries into the challenge.

 Hes somehow supposedly got 1 million  in extra funds to which he has a vested
interest in not giving away... And he has no interest in various aspects of paranormal
activity.   And he insists that any entry be accepted by media before any attempt
at all is accepted.  This all shows very clearly what Randi is Really all about.

 Hes a Scammer Himself.   No better than the people who he tries to defraud...
because he uses the same slimy tactics.

 Randi would do the world much better service proving the Lottery was rigged.

Not only are they not 100% accurate all the time, they actually mirror the same results you'd get through random chance. Believers love to focus on the random groupings that appear normally from time to time.

 Sorry,  but your dead Wrong.   My results have proven well beyond random chance.
Even if I was to ignore both me and another getting 5 or 6 in a row correct,  I would
be left with all the other evidence as Ive already layed out. 

 Skeptics with no experience in such fields are ill prepared to understand.  Its like a
4 yr old trying to understand the complexities of martial arts.   They may only get the
basic ideas... but are lost to the voluminous depths of the details.

Just because a skeptic isn't dumb enough to pay money for a psychic class, doesn't mean they haven't done research.

 If you never Swam in the water... How much could you theoretically understand
about Swimming?   All the books in the world couldnt really make you understand the
feelings, motions, and experience of an actual physical swim.

 If I was doing an investigation about swimming...  How good of an investigator would
I be if I never put so much as a Toe into the water?

 Developing your intuitive abilities is much more than you can realize with your
shallow surface knowledge and prejudices.   You have No experience with deep
meditations and the effects and feelings associated with them.  You have the smallest
of understandings.. and your prejudices and small minded-ness along with your
Ego prevent you from exploring the possibility.   You claim false victory, and you
revel in your ignorance.


 The very First big thing I did was blow some money on a "Healer"  to see if it was
real.. and what I would feel... If anything.    Well, I can tell you that I was not all
that impressed.  The man was very nice... but was trying to guess my Ill's when I
had none to my knowledge.   Yet, one thing I did notice was that as his hands
hovered several inches over me... I felt a tingle and heat that I had not felt before.
It was much more heat than the typical hand heat of a normal persons hand.

 The experience was enough to interest me to spend the measly $10  Per
Psychic class.   The experiences were well worth the money spent.

Yes I do. I have 480 extra hours of my life that I haven't wasted on pure, unfiltered, nonsense.

 Actually, this is exactly why I have not bothered to even reply to you.  Your
experience and attitude are so poor as not to even be worth it.

 The Meditations I did were probably the Best thing that Ive ever done in my
lifetime.   In only a few months... I was the most happiest Id ever been..
I felt as if I was Floating on a cloud when I was walking in my daily waking life.

 My mind was cleared.. and I finally was able to get to sleep easily.. where as
before, my mind would keep me up for Hours on end.

 My stress levels went down to near nothing.  And I learned how to become a
much better person.  I learned the damages / Downfalls  of Pride and Ego.
 
 I learned a few breathing techniques that have improved my health and well being.
Stuff that is Life-Long changing.    It has also given me a great advantage in
martial arts as well.   (many of the arts today have Lost the proper breathing
techniques, and as a result, are like 50% less powerful / effective)

 So, yeah... again... your response shows me the level of both maturity and
depth of understanding you have.   It shows me you are a zombie who believes
what you read word for word.. and are too lazy and or blinded to prove it
to yourself.

 You are a useless Brick Wall.  With little place to go.


 And Btw- If you had even done the smallest of research on Meditation.. You
would at least know the scientific findings of Value of it.  Of course,  knowing something
is good means very little.   Its true Experience that counts a thousand fold more.