DIY SW Yoke revisited... many years later, questions again.

[rbarr110]

Seeing this project,
http://urbaninteractive.wordpress.com/
for the Vector ROTJ and his launcher has re-invigorated my desire to try and  make a yoke again.

Several years have passed since I first wanted to try and make my own yoke and a lot of the research I had done has escaped my memory or the websites I used as references are either long gone or have new URL’s and I cant find them.

I plan on using the MS Dualstrike hack for my yoke, but questions regarding what pots to use has come up.  I am referencing this how-to
http://arcadecontrols.com/hosted/yoke/
for some inspiration and info, but want to bypass the use of gears (I think I have a way figured out).  So I have a couple of questions.  In the guide posted, the builder uses a 2:1 ratio gear to get his 5K pots to rotate the full 270 degrees.

The original SW yoke had about 70 degrees L/R rotation for a total of 140 degrees.  I plan on using 67.5 degrees or 135 total, half the rotation of a 270 degree linear pot.  Couldn’t I get a away with using a 10K  270 degree linear pot, and limits its motion to 135 degrees and be ok?

[1UP]

That should work.  The DS is doing this already.  If you're talking about the same Dual Strike hack, then it's the one I originally posted a looong time ago.  If I remember correctly, I tested the pots in the DS with a multimeter and found that they were actually 10k or so, but that the controller was mechanically limited so you only got 5k of range out of them, which is the reason why the hack works!

[1UP]

Also, you may want to take a browse through here to see if there are any 1/2 or 1/4 turn pots or such available.

[rbarr110]

OFF TOPIC
- 1up - I miss your website, tons of great info was there as well as inspirational ideas for many projects.  Thanks for the help as well.

ON TOPIC
Anyone know what the forward/backward tilt of the original SW yoke was? 45 degrees front/back for a total of 90 degrees?

[1UP]

Dunno, but it was a lot less than 90 degrees.  I used to have a yoke but sold it with my DS! 

[barkbusters]

Just an idea. The Ultimarc U-HID-G has a three-axis accelerometer seems perfect for yokes. Three axis of motion plus six buttons hooked up USB and seen as a controller in windows. No Gears No pots.

[1UP]

Just an idea. The Ultimarc U-HID-G has a three-axis accelerometer seems perfect for yokes. Three axis of motion plus six buttons hooked up USB and seen as a controller in windows. No Gears No pots.

Wow, that's pretty cool.  Hmmm....

[rbarr110]

Just an idea. The Ultimarc U-HID-G has a three-axis accelerometer seems perfect for yokes. Three axis of motion plus six buttons hooked up USB and seen as a controller in windows. No Gears No pots.

Damn that makes a DIY yoke a piece of cake now.

[barkbusters]

Made a mistake, was going from memory. Just looked it up, its three axis plus eight other inputs that can be configurable for buttons, keystrokes, further analog or quadrature.

[Xiaou2]

 Sorry, but you probably wont get good accurate results from accelerometers.
They will lose calibration too easily.

[rovingmind]

how would that affect star wars?  it auto calibrates the yoke.

[Bluedeath]

Thrustmaster replacement pots do have 30° of travel in the active part

[z]

barkbusters,
Had the same thought about the U-HID-G last month:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=91140.msg957472#msg957472
Andy didn't think it would be accurate enough 

[rbarr110]

Yeah, I emailed Andy and he said it wouldnt be a good option for the yoke.

[1UP]

I'm more interested in the quadrature inputs (also available on the UHID Nano).  That could mean easy upgrade of any joystick to a rotary stick with a couple of cheap encoders from Mouser.

I wish I could get Charlie from Gamecab to return my PMs but seems like he's gone.  I'd like to know what bushings and other parts he used in his yokes.  I have one of his first yoke designs, which is pretty solid and looks simple to make from a project enclosure, 2 happ trigger grips and some hobby gears and metal tubing.  Works pretty nicely, but I'm looking to upgrade the springs to torsion springs since the linear ones are pretty noisy.

[Xiaou2]

You can get nice gear sets from  http://www2.stevenshobby.com:5641/
Though, they will need modifications for use in a yoke.

 Part #  SVM-MR8   or  SVM-MR7

 If you do not wish to use gears, you could probably use "Levers" instead.
Ive seen it done with some people who have made their own pedal sets:


 

[rbarr110]

Ok...so I am still hammering the last bit of details out on my DIY yoke, but am having trouble finding torsion springs that arent $20-$30 each. (Really dont want to spend a ton, especially on a prototype design that isnt "proven" yet.)

Anyone know of a source for springs that dont cost an arm and a leg?

[z]

Have you looked at www.mcmastercarr.com?  Looking at catalog page 1206, not sure if any would fit for what you are doing.

[1UP]

That's the first place I'd look!  They've really got just about everything you could need and a lot more variety than a hardware store.  Decent prices too and usually ships to me next day.

[rbarr110]

Ok - so I think I have located some springs that may work, going to pick up a pair and see how testing goes.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&productId=100048184&navFlow=3&keyword=chisel%2Bspring&langId=-1&searchRedirect=chisel+spring&storeId=10051&endecaDataBean=com.homedepot.sa.el.wc.catalog.beans.EndecaDataBean%405c1c8637&ddkey=Search

[1UP]

I have been tearing apart the yoke I got from Gamecabs a few years back, one of the early more home-made ones.  Despite a couple design/finishing flaws, it seems pretty solid and it's really simple.  I'll try to put up some photos of the insides if I get a chance while I'm messing with it, I think it could really help the DIY yoke effort.

[rbarr110]

My goal is to make it as close to possible to fit inside the original yoke dimensions and shape.  As of now I am about 1.5" too wide with the design I am working on, but think I can shave that down after testing is complete.

This wont be something I knock out in a couple weeks, I am looking at a summer long, and possibly more time to get it all worked out.  I currently have a bar project that is taking me forever to get done as well.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/bar-finally-under-construction-100022/

[rbarr110]

Thrustmaster replacement pots do have 30° of travel in the active part

Thanks, I missed this reply earlier, 30 degrees it is.... thats what I was hoping for, that way I can use easy to obtain Radioshack pots, a 10K and a 50K for the project..... this way no gears.

[1UP]

Hey rbarr, I might be missing something, but I don't see any stops in that design you linked to limit rotation.  I recommend adding something if you haven't already, both on the steering and pitch axles.  A cushioned bolt that stops the cotter pins from turning might be enough.  Definitely wouldn't just rely on the springs to stop them.  That could bust your pots real easy.

[rbarr110]

Hey rbarr, I might be missing something, but I don't see any stops in that design you linked to limit rotation.  I recommend adding something if you haven't already, both on the steering and pitch axles.  A cushioned bolt that stops the cotter pins from turning might be enough.  Definitely wouldn't just rely on the springs to stop them.  That could bust your pots real easy.

Not sure what you are talking about.... I havent put up any of my design yet in any links.  I have ideas in mind for limiting rotation, but definitely not relying on springs alone.

[1UP]

My bad, I meant the link in your original post that you say you are referencing: http://arcadecontrols.com/hosted/yoke/

That doesn't have any stops that I can see.  The original had rubber bumpers inside to limit rotation.  Sounds like you have that covered though.

[1UP]

BTW, Here are some rebuild pics of an original yoke that could be helpful. http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Yoke_Rebuild

[rbarr110]

Well my more-or-less off the shelf build wont fit into the original width of about 5.5" of the yoke, so I guess I will proceed with a similiar look idea in mind.

Oh well.... back to the workbench.

[1UP]

I think the Gamecab yoke guts fit into that width.  I'll put up some pics this week as I rebuild mine.

[1UP]

I took some pics of the Gamecab yoke, hope these are useful.

Pic 1: The design is somewhat similar to the older DIY yoke, but is built with sturdier parts and includes stops to limit rotation.  As you can see, the hub of the yoke has a long horizontal shaft running clear through it, with two shaft collars screwed on just inside a metal enclosure.  These stop the shaft from moving laterally.  Two thumb screws threaded into tapped holes in the collars limit rotation in either direction to a total of about 50-60 degrees (haven't measured.)  A third thumb screw is threaded directly into the back side of the shaft, and is drilled to allow two springs to be hooked on and center the shaft rotation.  A set of gears link the shaft to a 500k potentiometer.  It appears to be a 2:1 gear ratio.

Pic 2: The shaft exits the enclosure thru 2 bronze bearing sleeves that allow it to turn smoothly without any play.  The enclosure is 4.75" wide.  2 short pieces metal tube are attached to the shaft onto which the Happ grips are assembled, one tube is welded, the other (pictured) is merely press-fit onto the shaft and secured with a machine screw.  This seems to be just as solid as the welded end and is how I intend to reattach the handles when I make my mods, but the hole I drill for the shaft will be at an angle, so that the handles will be in a more ergonomic position.  This will definitely involve a drill press and a clamp.

[1UP]

The base of the yoke is setup similarly to the hub.  A tube running out the bottom of the hub runs thru some kind of sleeve bearing, into the base, where another gear is mounted.  Another thumb screw is threaded into the metal collar on the large gear, and this acts both as a stop and an attachment point for 2 more springs.

While the spring and thumbscrew arrangement works pretty well, it is noisy.  The hooks on the spring ends tend to rub and bind on the eyelets and the thumbscrew, and the springs pop and echo within the housing quite loudly.  Torsion springs seem to be the way to go here.

[1UP]

Two more pics I thought would be useful.  These show how the hub is connected to the steering shaft.  Another shaft collar is screwed onto the bottom of the hub enclosure's lid.  Two screws go thru the lid into tapped holes on end of the collar.  The collar is secured to the shaft with a set screw.  Again, pretty solid concept, but I would prefer 3 or 4 screws to secure the shaft to the lid to prevent wobbling, and possibly a second collar on the inside of the lid attached to a slightly longer shaft for more stability and strength.

[rbarr110]

Thanks for the photos.  When I get a bit further down the road I'll post up some photos of what I am trying to do.

[rbarr110]

1Up - can you do me one more favor when you get a chance....

Can you give me the total width between the handles (not including handles) on the assembly?

Since you own it, and I assume used it, was the width comfortable, too wide etc?  Also the handles look vertical where the original yoke had a slight inward tilt toward (rotation around the Z axis) /-----\  vs |----|
Thanks

[1UP]

1Up - can you do me one more favor when you get a chance....

Can you give me the total width between the handles (not including handles) on the assembly?

Since you own it, and I assume used it, was the width comfortable, too wide etc?  Also the handles look vertical where the original yoke had a slight inward tilt toward (rotation around the Z axis) /-----\  vs |----|
Thanks

Yep the width is fine, not much different than the original width I think, I'll measure that tonight.  But the handles are 90^o vertical, so in that regard they are pretty uncomfortable.  That's one of the reasons I'm tearing it apart.  Originally I was just going to try and bend the shaft a bit, but with the wobbly x-axis and the noisy springs, I decided to do a complete rework.  Looking on Mcmaster right now for a suitable enclosure, but if I can't find anything I've got some sheet metal left over that I might just cut up for a custom job.  My goal is to fit everything in the hub, both axes, so there is no huge shaft underneath to worry about mounting.  I think it is doable.

BTW, I used to own an original yoke (sold to Paigeoliver!  ) so I've got some experience under the hood with it.  Actually that was the first ever DS hack.    It was awesome, but just a little too heavy and bulky for my setup.

[1UP]

Measured the yoke last night and it's 7.5" from the inside edge of one handle to the other.

[1UP]

Looks like I'm going to try making a whole new body for my yoke from 1/8" sheet metal, based on the shape of the original, using all the Gamecab guts and some new torsion springs.  Should be interesting.  Should have never sold my old SW yoke...