Is this too much for one CP? Also the 7-button question of doom.

[Erik]

Been on a 6 year hiatus from the board and now I'm ready to start building in a couple months.  Been reading for the past couple days and enjoying all the builds.    Had two questions. 

Was wondering if a 27.25" panel was too narrow for two sticks, SF2 style button layout, and a center trackball.

Also second question.  This is a doozy .. I did search on this and found a bunch of posts debating it, but I hadn't seen if anyone is doing this.  What I want to do with the buttons is this (with a slight curve):

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My reasoning is that 2/3rds of the games I play are Neo Geo or SF2-style.  The remaining tend to be older 1 or 2 button games.  I want those games to use the buttons nearest to the controller (1 and 2 above), and I don't want to reach over other buttons to hit them.  I also don't want the dangling button on the bottom left which IMO is prime real estate and would frustrate casual gamers if I told them to ignore it.

Problem is that I believe this will flip the SF2 punch/kick rows.  (if this isn't true please correct me, as that eliminates the problem) I certainly don't want to reprogram each SF2 style game in MAME.

I don't understand the CTRLR files that well but it seems to me they go by driver name.   If that's the case I don't think they'll work for me in this case as I don't want all my CPS1/2 games to use the new SF2 config because then games like 1944 would require reaching over the bottom row.

Please advise!  Thanks!!!

[genesim]

It all depends on the keyboard encoder.   If your default falls in the realm of a normal 6 button then just make your Neo Geo buttons a pain.

I have never found a good solution to this, but I keep the 6 as the defaults for sure.

[Hoopz]

Regarding your question about the size, I'd suggest making a mock up control panel out of cardboard.  Mark everything on there that you want and see if it's too small.

It all depends on the keyboard encoder.   If your default falls in the realm of a normal 6 button then just make your Neo Geo buttons a pain.

I have never found a good solution to this, but I keep the 6 as the defaults for sure.

This isn't exactly true.  Well, at least the part about the defaults being a pain.  You may not have a found a good solution but it's actually pretty easy.

Take a look at this section in the Wiki that discusses ctrlr files:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Ctrlr_file

Or, better yet, maybe make a config file via this thread:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=88948.0

There are lots of options.  Don't let anyone, especially those who don't know better, discourage you from trying different ways to make it work for you.   

[genesim]

I certaintly wasn't trying to discourage anyone.   

I was speaking from simply the defaults on an ecoder, not editing text files.   From my experience I do find it a pain because I like it hardware encoded and not a text pointer.

But thanks for the links anyway.

[genesim]

Wow even in looking at your link:

However, its relative steep learning curve, limitations, format changes, and overlapping features with mame's standard input mapping method seem to have curbed the use of the ctrlr files.

And there in lies the rub.   Yup...easy as pie.   

Time consuming is actually what I was getting at more then not being able to do it. 

[Hoopz]

I certaintly wasn't trying to discourage anyone.   

I was speaking from simply the defaults on an ecoder, not editing text files.   From my experience I do find it a pain because I like it hardware encoded and not a text pointer.

But thanks for the links anyway.

I understand your point, but I'm not concerned about what you like relative to what the OP needs or wants to happen.  IMHO, using config files or CFG Magician may be the easiest/best route for him to take.  

Peab0dy, since you researched ctrlr files, it sounds like you've put some time and effort in to getting this the way you want it.  Look at the CFG Magician and what it can do to see if it will help.

If all else fails, maybe u_rebelscum will be here to point you in the right direction.  

[Hoopz]

Wow even in looking at your link:

However, its relative steep learning curve, limitations, format changes, and overlapping features with mame's standard input mapping method seem to have curbed the use of the ctrlr files.

And there in lies the rub.   Yup...easy as pie.   

Time consuming is actually what I was getting at more then not being able to do it. 

Then dont use it.  Or, better yet, look at the second link...the one where I start the sentence with "Or, better yet,...."  Just because someone isn't comfortable with one aspect doesn't mean it shouldn't be presented, along with other options, to someone else.  You never know what THEIR comfort level is. 

[genesim]

Never said it shouldn't be.

But the "don't let others discourage you" or "don't know better" snide crap is what this board can do without.   Be respectful and I won't say a word.

I never once stated that text editing wasn't an option.    Getting default keys the way you want first is a good step in the right direction.   No?   Thought so.

When I said never found a good solution to this, I meant as far as hard coded goes and how to put the buttons PHYSICALLY to where it comforms.   You apparently missed this angle in your reprimand to me.

[Hoopz]

Never said it shouldn't be.

But the "don't let others discourage you" or "don't know better" snide crap is what this board can do without.   Be respectful and I won't say a word.

I never once stated that text editing wasn't an option.    Getting default keys the way you want first is a good step in the right direction.   No?   Thought so.

When I said never found a good solution to this, I meant as far as hard coded goes and how to put the buttons PHYSICALLY to where it comforms.   You apparently missed this angle in your reprimand to me.

The OP can't use defaults because of what he wants.  I'm merely trying to show him how to set it up so that Mame changes the defaults based on what he needs. 

[genesim]

I do appreciate it.   And again thank you for the links, because though I knew about them, pointing them out makes me want to take another stab at it.

But using as many defaults...like button one through six saves at least complete editing.

My wet dream is to have MAME have defaults for Neo Geo.   I think it is complete exception to the rule don't you think?

[CheffoJeffo]

 Be respectful and I won't say a word.

It's true -- I was respectful all last weekend and he didn't say a word. 










Well, I suppose that it could have been because he got a timeout and couldn't post. 

[u_rebelscum]

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My reasoning is that 2/3rds of the games I play are Neo Geo or SF2-style.  The remaining tend to be older 1 or 2 button games.  I want those games to use the buttons nearest to the controller (1 and 2 above), and I don't want to reach over other buttons to hit them....

Problem is that I believe this will flip the SF2 punch/kick rows.... I certainly don't want to reprogram each SF2 style game in MAME.

I don't understand the CTRLR files that well but it seems to me they go by driver name.   If that's the case I don't think they'll work for me in this case as I don't want all my CPS1/2 games to use the new SF2 config because then games like 1944 would require reaching over the bottom row.

My POV/IMO:
I like the 123(4) on the bottom row. for the same not reaching over reason,
Be sure to do a mockup, and test that the 1-4 buttons aren't placed too low though,
If you use this layout, you will need to flip the SF2/MK maps in mame; this can be done with the ctrlr file (my person choice), CFGMagician, or scripts to reprogram your controller (if it can be reprogramed).

Quick review on using ctrlr file:
- Get list of games you want with the "SF2 6 button layout". 
-- (optional) Remove all clones with the same maps as their parents (basically all clones).
- Remap any one of these games in mame's "Input(general)" to your layout.
- Copy cfg/default.cfg to the ctrlr folder.
- Open in text editor and copy from "<system name=" to "</system>
- Change name="default" to name="gamename"
- Paste and change name
- Repeat last step for all games in your list.  (This can be batched/scripted.)


CFGMagician does have a few less steps, but you still have to get the list and setup the remap.


If you have any questions on ctrlr files, post it here and I'll see if I can help.

[genesim]

Well, I suppose that it could have been because he got a timeout and couldn't post.

Saint are these guys immune to the rules of the board?   I would keep this to PM but it never gets answered.

[Erik]

Outstanding feedback guys!  I really appreciate it!  

Thanks for explaining the ctrlr files for me.  I was thinking it was limited to one config for everything using a specific driver like cps2.c but now I see that's not the case.  

I hadn't seen CFGMagician before but that looks like a great utility and one I'll certainly try out.  

My encoder is an old ipac.  I don't know anything about changing configs with software on it so I'm thinking using a MAME files-based solution would be simplest for me.  

I forgot how handy this board is for figuring things out quickly!  Any of you guys know about basement foundation issues...

[Hoopz]

I forgot how handy this board is for figuring things out quickly!  Any of you guys know about basement foundation issues...

Sure.  List it with a realtor!   

[Ginsu Victim]

Mine is weird. It's
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123
     7

I don't care if the punch and kick are switched for Capcom fighters. It's mostly just my wife and I that play this thing anyway.

When I make a new panel, though, I'm leaving the seventh button off. I never use it.

[Hoopz]

When I make a new panel, though, I'm leaving the seventh button off. I never use it.

Would you though if it was easy to change your button assignments around?

[1UP]

When I make a new panel, though, I'm leaving the seventh button off. I never use it.

Would you though if it was easy to change your button assignments around?

No one really needs the 7th button unless you really like NeoGeo games (I do!).  Also, I like using it as a Hyperspace/SmartBomb button in Asteroids/Defender, just to keep the correct button arrangements.  Otherwise, you can just use the SF2 layout for occasional Neo Geo games:

1 2 3
4(5 6)

[genesim]

The Mortal Kombat 3 run button is in that place as well.   

Along with Neo Geo, it makes it worth it for me.

[Hoopz]

The Mortal Kombat 3 run button is in that place as well.   

Along with Neo Geo, it makes it worth it for me.

Along with these points, it makes sense to use it if you don't want to reach over buttons like the OP mentioned.

Did we just agree?  Time to go find out if the lyrics to the theme song for M*A*S*H are true....   


EDIT for poor grammar.

[Ginsu Victim]

When I make a new panel, though, I'm leaving the seventh button off. I never use it.

Would you though if it was easy to change your button assignments around?

When I did mine opposite of everyone, it was because I thought I'd had some bright idea. That layout doesn't work well for Neo Geo, though, so I've not been happy with it for the last year. Eventually I'm making a new panel and switching to just six buttons.

[1UP]

The Mortal Kombat 3 run button is in that place as well.   

Along with Neo Geo, it makes it worth it for me.

Along with these points, it makes sense to use it if you don't want to reach over buttons like the OP mentioned.

Did we just agree?  Time to go find out if the lyrics to the theme song for M*A*S*H is true....   

LOL!  I just got that. 

Anyway, that is exactly why, if you use a 7th button, that you put it "hanging off" the bottom left of the others--so it's out of the way so there is no reaching over.  Well, the main reason is that you use it with your thumb (my pinky is not very good at games...)  However, if peabody is adding a slight curve, then maybe this is already built in.

[1UP]

But regarding your first question peabody, I think 27~ inches is a little tight to fit a trackball between the sticks.  It might work but it may barely fit.  You may have to move the trackball above/below the sticks.

[severdhed]

how many street figher type games do you actually play?  it wouldn't be that difficult to remap those games using the cfg files.  yeah, it may take a little while..but do you really have something better to do?

personally, i don't mind reaching over the bottom row, it just feels natural to me.

as for the width of the panel....that could be pretty tight.  it is probably workable, but definately tight.  it also depends on the joysticks you use... i made the mistake with my first panel of not accounting for the wires that stick out from the joystick switches when measuring how close i could put the joysticks to the sides of the panel...i had to use the router and route a slot on the inside fo the control panel box to get it to fit.  i did not have this problem with my u360s though...so it really just depends on your sticks.

just for reference, here is my panel, which is 12" deep and 30" wide, with the 6 button layout and 3" trackball.  i wouldn't want it any smaller than this.

[ivwshane]

I have my layout like this:

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0123
On a curve.

Street fighter is backward but honestly it wasn't that big of a deal to configure my six button games to be mapped correctly.

What I like about my set up is that one-four button games are mapped correctly including neo geo which makes setup even easier in my opinion since there are more of those types of games. I also like having my 0 button lower and closer to the stick because it makes it an obvious button one.