Games that use the Tron Joystic?

[Gangor]

Hi everyone, I'm trying to determine if it is worth adding the tron joystick to my project.  Can you help me with a list of games that use it?

Tron
Sinistar?
...

[genesim]

PLUS it has the added benefit of being a top fire type joystick as opposed to the ugly icecream Happs version.   So you can add all of those games too.

Lastly, for my taste...track ball with Top fire equals lots of fun with newer games where there needs to be a mouse and keyboard combo.   

I like joystick over directional keys any day!

[CheffoJeffo]

An actual Tron stick ? Tron and (with addition of extra button), Discs Of Tron.

Sinistar used a 49-way stick and, I expect, would play very poorly with a Tron stick, which is an 8-way with special restriction.

[Patent Doc]

Add Satan's Hollow and Gorf to your list.

[TheShanMan]

Strictly speaking, due to the special restriction, Tron is the only game that the tron stick is suited for.

[CheffoJeffo]

It'll work for Satan's Hollow, but not much else I would use it for.

Having said that, if the OP is looking for games that use an analog flight stick (or a trigger stick mounted to something like a U360), that opens up a world of possibilities.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Add Zwackery, Kozmik Krooz'r, Xenophobe, and Crater Raider to the list.

[genesim]

Yes the modification should be used because it is the best option now because of now.   You can program it however you want just like the ultra 360.  Analog flight stick plus so many others.   

A hitch though.    I got the Tron restrictor and I am currently in the middle of modifying it.    I haven't tested it yet because I want to make it like "whnotpizza" that improved my idea here.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=86734.msg910938#msg910938

I will know by the end of this weekend whether its a mistake or not.   I should have went with round probably, but a extended square restrictor was my choice becasue that is how eight ways work.    Who knows....I will report back.    The main thing is that the magnet should have the full range of motion now.    Plus the tron restrictor gave an indication of how to cut because of the square imprint.

[Gangor]

I have a tron joystick mold and will use a compatible flight stick, so my apologies for not being specific.  I'm assuming that opens things up in that realm?

[TOK]

Lots of stuff used flight style sticks... Some good ones were mentioned, also Gorf and Zaxxon.
Maybe I'll be able to think of more when the coffee kicks in. 

[genesim]

A comprehensive list would good.   But I understand anyone not wanting to go to all that trouble!

[Hoopz]

Romlister can give you a report showing what games used a Top fire joystick.

http://www.waste.org/~winkles/ROMLister/

[genesim]

A simple filter is no fun.   We like lists!

But thanks anyway.    It was kind of an offhand inquiry anyway.   There are so many to list.

[CheffoJeffo]

Is modding a flight stick to fit a U360 a better choice than just using an analog flight stick these days ?

[Xiaou2]

 The whole reason for the tron restrictor was to keep from hitting diagonals
in the lightcycle stages.  Why would you modify it to do the very opposite?

 With the amount of money spent between andys device and the
tron stick... you could have gotten a true arcade analog joystick that
was far superior as a flightstick.

[CheffoJeffo]

With the amount of money spent between andys device and the tron stick... you could have gotten a true arcade analog joystick that was far superior as a flightstick.

That was what I was thinking, especially since MAME supports digital mapping for analog sticks (or at least that is my understanding ... the only MAME box that I have built recently uses a trackball and spinners).

I would think that you can accomplish everything that would be needed, with the exception of the physical feeling of the Tron stick, with an analog arcade flightstick.

[Ummon]

With the amount of money spent between andys device and the tron stick... you could have gotten a true arcade analog joystick that was far superior as a flightstick.

That was what I was thinking, especially since MAME supports digital mapping for analog sticks (or at least that is my understanding ... the only MAME box that I have built recently uses a trackball and spinners).

I keep forgetting this. However, the play would make digital control games kinda such I'd think.

[CheffoJeffo]

With the amount of money spent between andys device and the tron stick... you could have gotten a true arcade analog joystick that was far superior as a flightstick.

That was what I was thinking, especially since MAME supports digital mapping for analog sticks (or at least that is my understanding ... the only MAME box that I have built recently uses a trackball and spinners).

I keep forgetting this. However, the play would make digital control games kinda such I'd think.

I dunno (which is why I asked), but I seem to recall ahofle talking very positively about Tron gameplay under this scenario.

[Encryptor]

It looks like you just made the restrictor an 8-way restrictor or square. Isn't that what comes in the Happ Heavy Duty 8-way to begin with? From the pic you posted it looks just like the restrictor in a DOT stick. I have one in my basement and it looks just like that.


Encryptor

[Xiaou2]

 The problem is Mechanical.


 If you want to play digital games with a true arcade analog... the throw distance
will be too great for good quick reaction times.


 If you use a "Modified short throw u360",  you gain some digital speed, but lose
mechanical control (superior leverage & distance).   Basically, it makes analog games
harder to control with less precise accuracy.


 If you like your classics to play like butt... then either of these are the way to go.

[genesim]

Not exactly.   The happs is alot tighter.   It doesn't go quite far enough, that is why whynotpizza adjusted his, and that is why I cursed it.   Though we both thought the posts were welded.

I cut your restrictor because at least it wouldn't ruin the original.    I wouldn't have ordered it if I had thought about it a little longer.   That said, the money was spent..and here it is.   I haven't finished assembling yet, but I am almost 100% certain it will be a complete improvement.   The original square is apparent, and that is why I cut it.   But of course if the DOT was bettter because it is exactly like that, then hell yes I would have used it.   Didn't know that and it is different from the Happs version?  Got one?  Would it be the same as the one you brought me.  Can you compare??

Xiaou2,

I wouldn't say plays like "butt".   I think it plays fine, but that is just my taste.   It is all a compromise unless you have the original equipment.   

But for me, the fact that you can play so many games close with all the available configurations.  Well worth it.

Playing a number of analog games gives me no trouble.   Sinistar plays fine, Star Wars plays fine(despite the obvious short comings of not being a Yoke)...After Burner.

I am not sure excactly what all these are, but so many games are opened up.   I think alot of the not exactly authentic feel can be learned in time anyway.

If you want to play digital games with a true arcade analog... the throw distance will be too great for good quick reaction times.

Isn't that why you program for it?

[genesim]

The whole reason for the tron restrictor was to keep from hitting diagonals
in the lightcycle stages.  Why would you modify it to do the very opposite?

Uhh..that is why you map it to only hit at the extreme diagonal.   It works fine for me.  I am just trying to perfect it even more.

[genesim]

I would think that you can accomplish everything that would be needed, with the exception of the physical feeling of the Tron stick, with an analog arcade flightstick.

Is it as good as the mod where you can have a grid of degrees of movements and you can change configurations on the fly?

If not, then I don't know how you would make the extreme programming of the Tron diagonal as I have posted on other places.

Having the benefit of all the different programs like analog, digital(and guess what, you might be able to put the microswitches back in as well if I thought about it for a while...don't know why I would unless you like clickin)..whatever.

Lots of freedom.   If MAME does it this good I am all ears.   This mod was/is a pain in the ass, but once truly perfected I think it was all worthwhile.   

That and the Happs stick is just awesome.

[Xiaou2]

 Your idea of fine... is like saying:

 "My Ford Tempest is Fine to race in Nascar"

 Sure, you COULD race your standard car on a Nascar track... But how well
do you really think you can do against cars that are much better designed for
that track?   If you dont mind getting lapped like crazy, and nearly killing yourself
every moment because your tires are slipping all over the place... then sure...
FINE is fine for you.

 Or how about a guy who chooses to climb a cliff wall?   Do you think he
gets the cheapest ropes and equipment that is barely rated to hold his mass?
Fine for him?


 For me, Fine isnt good enough.   If Im going to do poorly... its not because of
a Poor controller.  Its because of actual skill level.

Isn't that why you program for it?

 Again... you do not seem to understand PHYSICAL MECHANICAL LEVERAGE.

 You think using a mini-thumb analog stick is as accurate as a full sized analog?!
With a full sized stick, you get more leverage, as well as more travel.  This equates
to better control ability.  Same reason why cars use large gas pedals instead of small Wheelchair controllers. 

 You can program all you want.  But if its too far from the left most side to the right
most side.. you will more than likely always spend too much time shooting past
where you programmed it to register...  thus wasting precious time.

[genesim]

You think using a mini-thumb analog stick is as accurate as a full sized analog?!

No and I never said this.   I said I think it controls pretty good and I was satisfied with the Ultra 360 the same way.

Perhaps you missed it when I said there will always be a degree of compomise.   

If you don't like the Ultra 360 as an analog joystick that is fine.   I do. 

Do you think he gets the cheapest ropes and equipment that is barely rated to hold his mass? Fine for him?

Shouldn't the climber be the judge of what he wants?   Noone is forcing you to use the modification or the Ultra 360.    Just as there is noone forcing me to use an analog joystick.

Yet I know this much.   An analog joystick makes a poor digital stick unless fitted with microswitches.   Same as an digital cannot be analog..BUT at least the Ultra 360 can be a very good digital pad while enjoying a good analog feature.   

I don't see the problem.  I think it controls fine.   I most definetly am not saying that the Ultra 360 is a "Ford Tempest".   

[genesim]

By the way have you played with the modification?  If you haven't wouldn't that make one of us have a more informed opinion?   

I have experience with analog control in the arcade.    Have you even played with a Ultra 360?

I see nothing wrong with the stick in analog mode.

Try to answer without personal attacking me.  You started it with such, and there is no reason for you to pollute another thread.  I did not deserve that childish behavior then or now.

[CheffoJeffo]

By the way have you played with the modification?  If you haven't wouldn't that make one of us have a more informed opinion?   

Where have I heard this said before ... and then dismissed ?

It seems so familiar ... almost as if I had said it about something ...

 

[Xiaou2]

You stated your OPINION, I stated Mine.  Never did I attack.

 Best learn to Read what is posted.. and that you cant Win
an argument over OPINION.

[1UP]

Genesim- you will never, under any circumstances, win an argument with Mr. Xiaou.  His opinions (sorry, I mean facts) are always correct, regardless what your practical experience tells you.  Best to abandon your project immediately, for you will never achieve perfectly authentic results with anything other than original stock parts.  Or possibly wooden facsimiles.

j/k

Xiaou, how's your cabinet doing?

[Encryptor]

But of course if the DOT was bettter because it is exactly like that, then hell yes I would have used it.   Didn't know that and it is different from the Happs version?  Got one?  Would it be the same as the one you brought me.  Can you compare??

The square you see on my restrictor is from the original and it's from the metal piece that holds it in place.

If you look at the pdf file in the thread below there is a picture of a DOT restrictor in it.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=71229.msg731124#msg731124


I don't know if the download is working for anyone yet. It isn't for me yet.


Encryptor

[genesim]

1UP,

Thanks for the advice.   It has taken me a while but I think I am finally got this....I think.  

Cheffo,

Your checks in the mail.   My bad.  

Encryptor,

Can you make a mold from the original this isn't rotated?   You can make some more money off(even though I am sure you are not making much and it would be more of a favor) of me because that is the exact size that I need.    Call it nutty....and it is.

[Encryptor]

Encryptor,

Can you make a mold from the original this isn't rotated?   You can make some more money off(even though I am sure you are not making much and it would be more of a favor) of me because that is the exact size that I need.    Call it nutty....and it is.

It's a bit of work to make a mold just to make one restrictor. But! I went and looked and I have 2 of the DOT restrictors. I'll send you one for $6 including shipping if you want to go that way.  LMK

Encryptor

[CheffoJeffo]

Cheffo,

Your checks in the mail.   My bad.  

It is just interesting how important you find experience when it is yours and minimal ...

[genesim]

Cheffo,

One man's treasure is another man's gold.   In your case...keep waiting for that check.  I will not underscore your quote value.  I promise. 

XXXXX

Encryptor that is great see you in PM.

[genesim]

Ooops...I meant trash is another man's treasure.    Too much Archie Bunker. 

[Xiaou2]

 I dont argue Opinion.  I state Facts.
 
 FACTS =  science, such as leverage, distance, and time.
Facts such as these, leading to losses of control.

 All you can do is TELL people your OPINIONS, that you Prefer Poor Control methods.

 Good for you.

[genesim]

My statements about how I...that is ME and MYSELF feels about hardware, is a FACT.

I don't tell people what they should use or what they should think is better.  That is not my style and never has been.  I argue my side of how I came to my conclusions.  In the end they all are just opinions. 

Now are you saying that Andy's Ultimarc analog joystick is a poor choice for an arcade?   What do you base this on?   Is my modification a "poor" choice for my purposes??  Is this more of your "facts" that you speak of?  This is your personal experience right....which is based on actually playing this modification?

[genesim]

Facts such as these, leading to losses of control.

If you understood the concept of analog and recalibrating the upper and lower limits the "losses of control" lie with the skill of the user.

Authenticity, I will never argue, but atctually hitting the place on the screen...different story all together.

If it were up to you we would only be sticking to all original hardware?  Wouldn't that mean we all would have our houses stacked with specialized devices.   Dude you need to worry about your own self and quit trying to run other people's lives.   I have never had a problem with people feeling how they want to feel, it is when people tell me how I should feel that I get defensive.

Even if you were dead wrong, I would never be so low as to say that you made "poor" choices.   

[leapinlew]

Heres a fact:

Gorf doesn't run for crap in Mame. What version of Mame did Gorf still work well? It's impossible to play with the version of Mame I use.

[genesim]

I have never understood the story to Gorf.   I played it on the Commordore 64 and that is where I remember it.

But I hear there is some kind of timing thing wrong with it.    Whether it playes like crap or not, my C64 is gone, and it still is fun...for what it is.

I like Galaxian more then Galaga, so what do I know.