Electrolytic Rust Removal

[SirPeale]

In the past I've always scrubbed the heck out of heavily rusted parts.  This of course results in  pitted surfaces.  Depending on the surface I either paint over it with thick heavy coats, or fill in the pits and then paint.

I've known about electrolytic rust removal for years, but haven't had the opportunity to test it due to it's volatile nature.  With small children around the house, it's nothing I wanted to have an accident with.

So with my family gone for the weekend, I thought I'd experiment with this a bit.

I used an 8V wall wart.  Cut the end off, separated the wires and soldered an alligator clip to each one.

Lots of people recommended to use washing soda as the electrolyte, but I couldn't find any locally.  One report I read suggested using lye, so that's what I went with.  Approx 1 tbs per gallon of water.

As my "sacrificial" piece I used a clump of steel wool. 

The first thing I tried it out on was a piece of steel I found on the ground outside.  After about 1/2 an hour the rust was all but gone.

The thing I really wanted to de-rust was the marquee bracket on my Donkey Kong.  I'd started cleaning it up with my wire wheel but with the tabs on it it kept catching and whipping out of my hands. 

So far it's been in the solution for about 1/2 an hour.  It's already looking much better.

I'd post pictures of my setup, but the wife took the camera with her on her weekend jaunt.

[SirPeale]

After an hour of the process, it's simply amazing how it looks.  What would have taken me hours to clean up with a wire wheel and sandpaper took an hour of soaking in solution.

I removed the DK bracket and replaced it with my Centipede Mini CP.  I'd had plans of sanding it down, but I may not have to now...

[Level42]

 


Really interesting. I just did the chemical method for the first time and worked great. I would be interested in this method too. I assume it's AC your putting through the bath ? What is lye (although soda is easily available (wife probably has it around). Where do you put the clips, in the bath or on the metal piece, and how do you prevent it from shorting ?

[SirPeale]

Really interesting. I just did the chemical method for the first time and worked great. I would be interested in this method too. I assume it's AC your putting through the bath ? What is lye (although soda is easily available (wife probably has it around). Where do you put the clips, in the bath or on the metal piece, and how do you prevent it from shorting ?

Which chemical method, the gel stuff?

Lye is sodium hydroxide.  Often used to clear blocked drains.   I would have rather used wash soda (sodium carbonate).  Don't confuse it with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) they're different. 

Absolutely NOT putting AC thru.  DC only.  AC wouldn't work.  You need an anode and a cathode.  AC would flip this constantly.

I used an 8V wall wart.  Negative lead on the piece, positive on the sacrificial piece.  Clips are on the water, and you WANT it to short.  That's how the process works.  You do not, however, want the pieces to touch.  That would cause a dead short.  You need the distance in the solution for the process to work.

[patrickl]

That sounds pretty cool.

Is lye the same as caustic soda (NaOH)?

:edit:  nevermind, I saw that indeed it's the same stuff. That's easy to find indeed.

[Level42]

I used this, learned it from Darthnuno:



It's basically phosphor acid with some other nice stuff added.....works pretty well but it's kind off agressive for f.i. paint too.

You can either dissolve it in water (1:5) or if the part is too big to put in a bath you can "paint" it with the undissolved stuff....

[SirPeale]

I gotcha.  That stuff eats the rust away.  The electrolytic process actually converts the rust back to steel and plates it back where it belongs - on your piece.

[SavannahLion]

That's interesting. I've heard of something similar with boats by hanging... aluminum(?) over the side to inhibit rust, but never to reverse it.

I gotcha.  That stuff eats the rust away.  The electrolytic process actually converts the rust back to steel and plates it back where it belongs - on your piece.

What's the science behind that? The current breaks the bond with the O and H. The anode attracts the free floating O and H to generate new rust and the freed Fe plates itself against the Cathode? Where does the freed Fe get the extra electrons? Does it create Fe₃ or something?

I slept through most of chemistry. :\

[Level42]

I put in one of the chromed small bolts of the Pac Man joystick I got from Spyridon and the chrome was completely away after the bath.....It's all black now.

[SirPeale]

What's the science behind that? The current breaks the bond with the O and H. The anode attracts the free floating O and H to generate new rust and the freed Fe plates itself against the Cathode? Where does the freed Fe get the extra electrons? Does it create Fe₃ or something?

I slept through most of chemistry. :\

That's what the "sacrificial" piece is for.  Iron oxide gets broken down, the oxygen moves to the anode, and that rusts instead.  I started with a rather large chunk of steel wool, but it's about 1/2 the size I started with. 

[SirPeale]

Here's a good Instructable (not mine) of one guys process.  What he did to that wood plane is nothing short of amazing.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Electrolytic-Rust-Removal-aka-Magic/

[RayB]

This thread has nothing to do with Arcade games. Move it to Main or EE

*Off my meds*     (kidding, but yeh, grumpy)

[SirPeale]

This thread has nothing to do with Arcade games. Move it to Main or EE

The thing I really wanted to de-rust was the marquee bracket on my Donkey Kong.  I'd started cleaning it up with my wire wheel but with the tabs on it it kept catching and whipping out of my hands. 

So far it's been in the solution for about 1/2 an hour.  It's already looking much better.

After an hour of the process, it's simply amazing how it looks.  What would have taken me hours to clean up with a wire wheel and sandpaper took an hour of soaking in solution.

I removed the DK bracket and replaced it with my Centipede Mini CP.  I'd had plans of sanding it down, but I may not have to now...

This thread does what now?

[TheShanMan]

Yeah, I was wondering where that comment came from. Even if you didn't perform this on an arcade game piece, it has direct application to coin op restoration. Personally I've never even heard of doing this, so I thoroughly enjoyed reading this. Not only does it sound like a better way to deal with rust, but far more fun too!

[SavannahLion]

What's the science behind that? The current breaks the bond with the O and H. The anode attracts the free floating O and H to generate new rust and the freed Fe plates itself against the Cathode? Where does the freed Fe get the extra electrons? Does it create Fe₃ or something?

I slept through most of chemistry. :\

That's what the "sacrificial" piece is for.  Iron oxide gets broken down, the oxygen moves to the anode, and that rusts instead.  I started with a rather large chunk of steel wool, but it's about 1/2 the size I started with. 

I don't quite understand what you're basically left with at the end. A steel object with an electroplating of iron? What happens to the carbon?

Nevermind, I found the answer in the one of the links presented in the instructable you linked.

[whammoed]

Baking soda works ok too.  (need to use twice as much)  Edit: don't use stainless  Also if you use stainless steel as your sacrificial anode, your water won't get so rusty brown.  I use an old stainless cooking pot as the container/anode...just can't let the piece you are treating touch the pot obviously.

[SirPeale]

If you use stainless as the anode it creates a toxic substance, and is illegal to dispose of.

[whammoed]

If you use stainless as the anode it creates a toxic substance, and is illegal to dispose of.

Good to know.  Never came across that when I looked into this way back when.  Never had the yellow water mentioned so hopefully I didn't pollute too much.  Back to the mucky water I go.

Edit:  Here is someone with quite a bit of expertise that says stainless is ok...but better safe than sorry I guess
http://www.fboerger.com/restorationtips.html#stainless

[SirPeale]

I think I'm going to invest in a battery charger.  The wall wart doesn't put have the balls to do this long without cooking itself.  And I think it'll do a better job with more amps.

[SirPeale]

Now I'm trying this on my Donkey Kong control panel bolts.  A bit different this time.  The bolts are frozen into the control panel.  I have the cathode on the bolt shaft, and a paper towel soaked in the solution on the top with the anode clipped to the paper towel itself.  It's not ideal - I really need a piece of metal on the paper towel, because right now my alligator clip is acting as the anode.  It's breaking it down, and quickly. 

[WunderCade]

This should be sticky-ed or wiki-ed. 

[SirPeale]

Wiki'd.

Not wanting my clip to completely disintegrate, I went searching for some variety of metal I could use to sacrifice.  I finally found it, in a wad of steel wool.  Now the clip is fine, but the wool (where it contacts the paper towel) is of course turning into a big pile of rust.  I can't wait for tomorrow to see if I can finally remove these bolts!

[phreak97]

I think I'm going to invest in a battery charger.  The wall wart doesn't put have the balls to do this long without cooking itself.  And I think it'll do a better job with more amps.

more amps? you mean like an arcade power supply?

[SirPeale]

Damn...why didn't I think of that?   

[SirPeale]

Thanks for the suggestion on using an arcade PS (I can't believe I didn't think of it sooner, I use them for everything else!

I'm working on the coin bucket for my Centipede, so I knew I'd need more juice.  Wired it up and off it went.  I need to get bigger alligator clips or some other way to increase the surface area I'm attaching my anode and cathode to.  I've got some ideas, I'll have to implement them later though.

[WunderCade]

Thanks for the suggestion on using an arcade PS (I can't believe I didn't think of it sooner, I use them for everything else!

I'm working on the coin bucket for my Centipede, so I knew I'd need more juice.  Wired it up and off it went.  I need to get bigger alligator clips or some other way to increase the surface area I'm attaching my anode and cathode to.  I've got some ideas, I'll have to implement them later though.

Jumper cables?

[ChadTower]

For those of us without a switcher around I imagine a PC power supply would do it just as well...

...this is interesting, I'm going to have to give it a shot.

[SirPeale]

Thanks for the suggestion on using an arcade PS (I can't believe I didn't think of it sooner, I use them for everything else!

I'm working on the coin bucket for my Centipede, so I knew I'd need more juice.  Wired it up and off it went.  I need to get bigger alligator clips or some other way to increase the surface area I'm attaching my anode and cathode to.  I've got some ideas, I'll have to implement them later though.

Jumper cables?

Don't have a pair I care to sacrifice, but that's the right idea.  I think the clips on those are actually TOO big.

Right now I'm thinking of using a square 1x1 piece of steel that I've soldered the wire to, and clipping that on the piece with a clothespin. 

For those of us without a switcher around I imagine a PC power supply would do it just as well...

...this is interesting, I'm going to have to give it a shot.

As long as it can put out enough juice, I believe it would.  I've got a ton of arcade PS's around that I salvaged when I was working for the OP, so I prefer those.

[ChadTower]

Right now I'm thinking of using a square 1x1 piece of steel that I've soldered the wire to, and clipping that on the piece with a clothespin. 

May as well just leave the attachment solution to each specific piece.  That's a good solution for a flat piece but would suck for a round piece.  Then you could just strip more wire and wrap it around the piece. 

I have some pinball legs that have been in my yard for like a year.  I'm tempted to give this a shot next weekend and see just how much can be recovered.

[Zebidee]

Wow - I have wasted good money getting metal arcade brackets sandblasted and re-painted when I could have been trying this process out, at least for many of the pieces.

I have learned soooooooo much from this hobby.

 

This thread sorely lack pics. Here is a video someone made of this process, cleaning rusted barbed wire. Interestingly, they cleaned off the black residue with coca-cola. Looks like any mildy acidic solution (e.g. vinegar) would do the same trick.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Rust-Black-Oxide-Removal/

[Level42]

Great video ! Thanks !

[Level42]

They used coke to remove the black stuff after the electrolytic process which made me remember that we used to use coke for removing really badly rusted bolts.

So how about the simple coke method ?

Basically, this is the same method as the "chemical" method with the stuff I used because both contain phosphor acid which does the job...... coke has to be cheaper though

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/795135/the_coca_cola_remove_the_rust/

[patrickl]

Why are people always so worried about (the) Cocal Cola removing rust from their stomach? Besides, why are people so hung up on Cola when lemon juice or vinegar (or any acidic liquid for that matter) works just as well?

BTW is this guy related to Stephen Hawking? He sounds similar 

I tried Cola for rust removal once, but it hardly did a thing.

[SirPeale]

I have a coin door I need to refinish.  I'll try to remember to take pictures of the process.

[Level42]

Why are people always so worried about (the) Cocal Cola removing rust from their stomach?

Did I say that ?

[Zebidee]

@Level42

My 4yo daughter just spent several minutes looking at your forum avatar and repeating: "four" "two" "four" "two" ...

Looks like you gained a fan

[Level42]

@Level42

My 4yo daughter just spent several minutes looking at your forum avatar and repeating: "four" "two" "four" "two" ...

Looks like you gained a fan

There was a guy with the "moving" Mario and Peach logo and when my son saw it (he was 5 or so then) he said that Mario was giving kisses   

[patrickl]

Why are people always so worried about (the) Cocal Cola removing rust from their stomach?

Did I say that ?

The youtube clip did.

[Ummon]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/795135/the_coca_cola_remove_the_rust/

Hahahah. The 'next day wake' is funny. And I'm assuming that's a euro place, hence that's why you have mini coke cans?

[Level42]

Why are people always so worried about (the) Cocal Cola removing rust from their stomach?

Did I say that ?

The youtube clip did.

Hah, I clicked away before the last part which said that.

The lady speaker sound British to me. I've never seen that type of coke can in Holland though. We always have 0,33 cL cans. Or it must be an "aircraft" can ?