Author Topic: debating buying a slikstik over building... (Read 2668 times)

hulkster · « **on:** June 30, 2003, 09:58:01 pm »

okay guys, im going to build a cab this weekend, and i really want to build my own control panel, but im worried about the wiring. i have no electronic wiring experience at all. ive never soldered, or used wire crimping tools or anything. ive read over the faq section about 1000 times trying to make myself not buy the $440 slikstik. i dont know what to do, and ive looked at just about everybody's page in the "examples" section, so ive looked and done research, but what i need is like step by step guide on wiring a cp. if one of you wants to make up one just for me, that would be great....BUT...assuming no one would do that for me, can anyone point me to a link where someone already has? i wanted a 4 player cp (like the $700 slikstik version) but didnt want to pay that much money for it when i knew that so many people have built one and saved a lot of money. can someone please, please, please help me out here. i really want to do it myself but i need some more help. please help me!!! im desperate!

meta87 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 30, 2003, 10:11:01 pm »

I was in your position. But let me tell you, It is really easy!

I thought I'd be soldering a splicing and all this other crap, but it is so self explanitory.

If you get a Ipac, you just have to stick it in there and screw it tight. It's not bad at all.

Just go for it man

! You can hit us up for specific questions anytime.

anthony691 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 30, 2003, 10:18:54 pm »

IT REALLY IS EASY! And sort of fun for me too...

hulkster · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2003, 10:22:51 pm »

well thanks for the reassurance. i really dont know crap about all the soldering and wiring and all that. i can follow directions, but my problem is i dont know what to buy. ive heard about keyboard encoders, and i understand how they work (mapping your joystick and buttons and stuff to the keyboard controls just like in an emulator) and iver heard about IPAC or whatever, but im not sure what that does. i guess what i need is like a list of stuff that will allow me to connect something like this... http://www.slikstik.com/piclg/quadlg9.jpg

i know i only need 4 buttons for 2 of the players but i want 7 for the middle 2. so if i went to Happ and ordered stuff, will it come with some directions that i need?

spectre · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2003, 10:30:03 pm »

well i've just gotten an xarcade 2 player and it works great even though most people here talk trash on it when they never had one in their life, but you can always hook 2 of them up together from what i hear.... 300 dollars compared to 700 is quite a difference, only thing is... it might look a little odd depending on how you set it up and what kind of cab you have...

anthony691 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2003, 10:34:09 pm »

Quote from: hulkster081 on June 30, 2003, 10:22:51 pm

well thanks for the reassurance. i really dont know crap about all the soldering and wiring and all that. i can follow directions, but my problem is i dont know what to buy. ive heard about keyboard encoders, and i understand how they work (mapping your joystick and buttons and stuff to the keyboard controls just like in an emulator) and iver heard about IPAC or whatever, but im not sure what that does. i guess what i need is like a list of stuff that will allow me to connect something like this... http://www.slikstik.com/piclg/quadlg9.jpg

i know i only need 4 buttons for 2 of the players but i want 7 for the middle 2. so if i went to Happ and ordered stuff, will it come with some directions that i need?

1 Opti-Pac
1 I-Pac 4
1 hell of a lot of wire and quick-dissconects!

You don't really need directions... it's that easy. This may be an ambitious (expensive too) venture though. You might want to drop the Trackball, Spinner and 5th joy. It is really easy to do, so no worrys. If you have half a brain and a computer you have all the instructions you need right here

hulkster · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2003, 10:34:30 pm »

i dont want to buy my controls though, i want to build them if someone will just point me in the right direction...already been to the left so dont say that. i know its a pain in the --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- sometimes to help a newbie, but come on, what if i said PLEASE again.

EDIT:
okay, well how much wire, and how many quick disconnects? what the hell are they used for? the quick disconnects i mean. ive read about them a lot, but no one said what they were really used for.

AlanS17 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 30, 2003, 10:40:13 pm »

Quick disconnects are the lil connectors that hook up to your joysticks and buttons. You put them on the end of yours wires and then clip it straight onto the controls. There's no messy soldering or tying. Just strip, crimp, and clip it on.

hulkster · « **Reply #8 on:** June 30, 2003, 10:42:16 pm »

AH HA! thanks, phew! okay, now that the wires are connected to the buttons and joysticks, where do they go? to the keyboard encoder? if so, what does the encoder hook to. and where does the IPAC come into play? keep going please, you are being most helpful, just a little longer and ill be out of your hair...for a little while at least

jakejake28 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2003, 10:50:02 pm »

the wires from the microswitches (joysticks and buttons) go to the ipac. the ipac has screw terminals that require no soldering, just insert the wire and screw down. the ipac then goes out via a usb or ps/2 cable, whichever you choose. that connects directly to you pc.

hulkster · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2003, 10:55:06 pm »

okay i understand the ipac and stuff now, but i saw something that is confusing me called a terminal block as in this picture... http://www.angelfire.com/80s/mame/images/day%205/ground%20wires.jpg what is that terminal block used for? why are the buttons and joysticks going to that thing rather than straight to the ipac? is that because he has so many buttons that the ipac doesnt have enough spots for all the wires?

edit: aw come on, dont give up on me now, im so close!

Ledbetter · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2003, 11:30:23 pm »

It looks like that guy used a terminal block to connect all his ground wires to a central source. Thats something that you don't have to do. It's alot easier to just to daisy chain all the ground wires together as you go.

Like in this picture- the black wire is the ground- just go from one switch to the next-

http://www.ultimarc.com/wiring.gif

jakejake28 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 30, 2003, 11:32:32 pm »

here are 2 i just drew up

http://www.geocities.com/jakejake28/pic.htm

you can tell the diff.

hulkster · « **Reply #13 on:** June 30, 2003, 11:34:14 pm »

okay, so daisy chaining means connecting all the buttons (in one area? or for the whole board?) with one black (ground) wire, and then connecting them each individually to the encoder, right? what about a Breakout Board, is that the same thing as a terminal block, or is that something completely different.

edit:
okay jake, thanks for the drawing. i understand that part, but how many buttons can you daisy chain at once? and is daisy chaining confined to just buttons or can you daisy chain like say...6 buttons and one joystick all together?

jakejake28 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 30, 2003, 11:37:18 pm »

Quote from: hulkster081 on June 30, 2003, 11:34:14 pm

okay, so daisy chaining means connecting all the buttons (in one area? or for the whole board?) with one black (ground) wire, and then connecting them each individually to the encoder, right?

only one ground connects to the board either way. and you have to connect each microswitch to the board via the NO or NC either way.

hulkster · « **Reply #15 on:** June 30, 2003, 11:46:02 pm »

okay, so where do i get all these wires. i saw somewhere where a guy bought a wiring kit or something. and am i going to have to crimp stuff?

Apollo · « **Reply #16 on:** June 30, 2003, 11:53:04 pm »

Daisy chain all the grounds from one switch to the next one then when you have done them all you take the ground wire from the final switch and connect it to ground on the IPAC ( you need an IPAC4 for that control panel by the way, or a Hagstrom KE72 but then you need breakout boards so that may make for more confusion ).
It may be easier to daisy chain the grounds from one side of the cab to one ground on the IPAC and the other side of the cab to a second ground on the IPAC ( or am I just confusing you ).
You need an opti pac for the trackball and the spinner ( centipede, arkanoid etc ). My advice is to go for a four player control panel and ditch the trackball and spinner. Then you don't need an opti pac and life will be a lot simpler for you.
If you are not addicted to centipede, missile command or arkanoid then leave out the trackball and spinner for your first building effort. You will no doubt start another project when you finish this one ( believe me you will, I had barely finished priming my first cab when I started on my second ( both unfinished as yet )) and you can go the whole hog on your next one.
What are you going to use for a monitor? I will be using an arcade monitor with ArcadeVGA but you may want to just go for a PC monitor if you really know as little as you say you do? Just a thought.
Good luck and remember enjoy yourself.

jakejake28 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 30, 2003, 11:53:48 pm »

ultimarc has a kit, but you could buy the wires from radio shack (1 out of 50 tries tho

), an auto shop, walmart had 'em, lowes, and i believe bobroberts has 'em, but i could be mistaken. anywhere that deals with wiring. its finding the type that is the hardest: i like 22 AWG myself. you need to crimp only if you want to use quick-disconnects, which you might if you have never soldered. bobroberts does have those.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #18 on:** June 30, 2003, 11:56:11 pm »

Quote from: hulkster081 on June 30, 2003, 11:46:02 pm

okay, so where do i get all these wires. i saw somewhere where a guy bought a wiring kit or something. and am i going to have to crimp stuff?

No wiring kit, you just need wire.

18 gauge stranded copper wire would be good. You can buy individual wires, or you can get a spool of wire that has multiple 18 gauge wires in it. You can really use any wire though, including Cat5 computer wire, but that is getting thin. The higher the gauge, the thinner the wire (22 gauge is thinner than 18 gauge).

You can crimp the quick disconnects on the end of the wire the is going to your microswitch or joystick. Then the quick disconnects just slip onto the terminal from that respective control.

hulkster · « **Reply #19 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:01:09 am »

okay, so once i get the wire, the buttons, joysticks, etc. i will need certain hardwire such as: (please help me check)

breakout board - which comes with IDE cable to connect to which port on the mother board?
keyboard encoder such as the IPAC - if i have 4 people playing, will that require a bigger encoder?

and then the keyboard encoder will go straight to my computer correct?

BobA · « **Reply #20 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:15:18 am »

You need just a keyboard encoder with enough inputs for your buttons and joysticks 4 per joystick and 1 per button. Add up what you want to put on your panel.

You don't need any sort of breakout or terminal strip unless you want to make your panel detachable or do some other fancy arrangement.

BobA

hulkster · « **Reply #21 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:25:20 am »

so i just need this thing? http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/ke72s2.gif but why do people use the breakout thingy? i saw one guys panel and it showed him connecting to a breakout board here http://www.webpak.net/~jmcclain/mame2/panel15.jpg

and then connecting it all to what? the encoder? and then from the encoder to the pc right? yeah im stupid i guess, but i almost got it.

Apollo · « **Reply #22 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:26:20 am »

C'mon dude it's a lot simpler than you think it is.

It goes like this

The buttons and joystick switches have 2 terminals each.
Connect all the grounds together from one switch to the next ( daisy chaining ).
Then connect the ground wire to the ground on the IPAC.
Connect the other terminal on each switch to a wire which then connects to the appropriate terminal on your IPAC keyboard encoder.
Then connect the IPAC to your computer by plugging it in to where the keyboard would usually plug in.
Connect your PC monitor to your PC.
Programme the IPAC or just use MAME configuration.
Start playing!

Forget about breakout cables or connecting anything to your motherboard. The only thing you need on your motherboard is a half decent amount of RAM, a CPU above 500MHz and a video card ( and sound card if you don't have on board ).
This changes if you are using an aracade monitor or TV of course, but you didn't say what you were using for a monitor.

hulkster · « **Reply #23 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:31:47 am »

OKAY! thats what i needed to hear. yeah it is a lot simpler than i think it is. im using a computer monitor, and i have all the right stuff for my computer. i understand now! yay! one more thing though

....for joysticks, they look like they have four places for wire to run, is that right or are they just like buttons with just two places to run wire (NO and NC)? and can i use the hagstrom encoder..the KE72T? it has 72 inputs, as apposed to less on the IPAC (56 i think), which one is better?

edit: okay, well after reading several things, im going with the ipac, and it says it allows for 4 joysticks and 8 buttons each plus 1-4 player and 1-4 coin. but i was wondering, if i put in a 4 way joystick with 2 buttons as well, where would i put the 4 way joystick on the ipac? since it only allows for 4 joystick inputs. would i just change the controls in mame?

jakejake28 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 01, 2003, 01:18:35 am »

put the 4-way and it's buttons in the same terminal as 1-p and it's buttons, and just alternate between joysticks as u need to

meta87 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 01, 2003, 01:20:57 am »

Most people just wire them to the player one joystick.

Since you won't be using the other joystick at the same time.

hulkster · « **Reply #26 on:** July 01, 2003, 01:31:55 am »

okay, thanks a lot guys. i just bought the buttons and joysticks and stuff, and am going to build my cab and cp this weekend!!! thanks so much for all your help, even though it took loke 40 posts to get it all done. ill post picks when im done!

Apollo · « **Reply #27 on:** July 01, 2003, 03:06:21 am »

Don't get confused about NO and NC. Don't wire both of these or your controls won't work. You need to wire the ground and the NO terminal. NO stands for normally open and NC stands for normally closed. NO means that the switch will be in it's "resting state" open i.e not on. When you hit the button it goes from it's normal state ( open ) to closed momentarily. See the pic below, the terminal on the bottom of the switch by itself is ground, usually, of the terminals on the left the bottom one is the NO terminal. That's the one to wire.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #28 on:** July 01, 2003, 08:44:10 am »

Quote from: Apollo on July 01, 2003, 03:06:21 am

Don't get confused about NO and NC. Don't wire both of these or your controls won't work. You need to wire the ground and the NO terminal. NO stands for normally open and NC stands for normally closed. NO means that the switch will be in it's "resting state" open i.e not on. When you hit the button it goes from it's normal state ( open ) to closed momentarily. See the pic below, the terminal on the bottom of the switch by itself is ground, usually, of the terminals on the left the bottom one is the NO terminal. That's the one to wire.

Also, just a clarification: The joystick will have four of the same swithches (one per direction, two pressed at the same time for diagonals) as shown in the pic above. Just like the single switch on a button.

The switches are wired the same way whether they are buttons or joysticks, the I-PAC won't care.

Also, note that when you move the joystick up, the bottom part of the joystick shaft contacts the BOTTOM joystick switch. So, looking down the joystick shaft from the top, you wire the lower switch to UP on the I-PAC, right switch to LEFT, left switch to RIGHT, and upper switch to DOWN.

rampy · « **Reply #29 on:** July 01, 2003, 10:12:33 am »

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on July 01, 2003, 08:44:10 am

Also, note that when you move the joystick up, the bottom part of the joystick shaft contacts the BOTTOM joystick switch. So, looking down the joystick shaft from the top, you wire the lower switch to UP on the I-PAC, right switch to LEFT, left switch to RIGHT, and upper switch to DOWN.

Spoken like a fellow who has wired their sticks upside down before =P

(once your stick is mounted... push it in the up/north direction and then look under the panel and see where the lever is and which switch it is actuating -- mark it with a sharpie or some masking tape... if you are a visual type of person and get confused when reversing things in your head =P)

Don't worry too much if you do get it backwards, that's why quick disconnects are the way to go... just disconnect from the microswitch tabs and move them to the correct one (or re-map mame/the ipac to accommodate) Tiger Heli and myself are just pointing out a common rookie mistake/pratfall that's easily overcome to save you some trouble.

Just to assuage your fears further-- the wiring is very straightforward and it looks like you've got the grasp of the main concept/practice i.e. doing the ground loop, wiring each button/switch via NO contact to corressponding ipac screw terminals.

I always felt the woodworking/finish parts were "harder" than the wiring (and in reality those aren't hard ... i'm just a little clumsy/inexperienced)

Good luck!

Rampy

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #30 on:** July 01, 2003, 10:32:40 am »

Quote from: rampy on July 01, 2003, 10:12:33 am

Spoken like a fellow who has wired their sticks upside down before =P

Actually, no . . . but I was reading someone else's write-up and he mentioned that and I thought "I would have done the same thing", so I try to point it out now.

Quote

I always felt the woodworking/finish parts were "harder" than the wiring (and in reality those aren't hard ... i'm just a little clumsy/inexperienced)

I agree, but that might also be because I have some wiring experience with computers and car stereo's etc, so it doesn't seem as intimidating.

hulkster · « **Reply #31 on:** July 01, 2003, 12:22:33 pm »

thanks for the tips, i probably would have made that mistake being that i wouldnt have looked at it that way. but after talking on the phone with my brother (hes a power tools sales guy) he said that this wood working stuff is going to be hard since im building my own cab. on the subject, how in the world do you guys find an arcade cab thats been used??? i live in nashville and ive called tons and tons of places, but no one is willing to sell me anything. there is one more place im calling today that might have something, otherwise im building this whole thing from scratch and wont get to the wiring for a while. i guess you just have to get lucky on finding a cab. ive ordered all the electric parts needed, now i just need lumber and stuff. any more tips guys?

rampy · « **Reply #32 on:** July 01, 2003, 01:58:13 pm »

Well, you could ask your brother to help you, or at the least lend you the tools. It honestly isn't that hard if you have the RIGHT tools for the job and take your time.

But just to give you options: i'm 90% sure there's an arcade auction in nashville (or somewhere in Tennesse) where you can (conditions permitting) get a gutted, broken, or working cabinet for cheap --> depending on your standards/choosiness of cabinet/style, and popularity/rareness of cabinet... i.e. some no-name working jamma game can go for 50 - 200 beans (ballpark)

see if I can find linkage:

rampy


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