Dream Authentics LCD Claims

[CheffoJeffo]

See -- you *are* genesim (and, for reference, that's not a good thing).

Only somebody with that level of arrogance could try to explain to the rest of us what this site is about. There is only one man (and you ain't him) who can tell me that this site is about emulation.

FWIW, I *do* play my classics on an actual arcade CRT in actual dedicated cabinets with actual controls ... and *THAT* was the point, you silly noob.

[northerngames]

 I know some arcade's leave there machine's pretty much on 24/7 365 and most machines are good for some time that way with no issues but I have no clue how long a lcd would hold up that well against a constant run like that.

 I know some of the lcd's they leave on at k-mart wal-mart and what not look terrible and have screen burn or color problems dead pixels etc. and they have not even been on their shelves very long as displays and they may even turn them off at night for all I know and if so they would get damaged even faster of coarse and the bulbs may burn up alot faster with a constant long run.

  

[pinballwizard79]

Do you think making a comment (which is stroking the moderator) & using words like "us" when I talk to "you" will create unity for your perspective?

Not even google knows what your word "genesim" means so pardon my ignorance. Furthermore I am not arrogant, just opinionated. You disagree with me & seem to view it otherwise.

My status is noob?

HAHA!

Congratulations on buying some dedicated machines, I guess you are now a true authority on all things arcade related. If only I had the $1,700.00 it takes to buy 9 beater machines on ebay.

I typed this on a LCD monitor BTW

Cheffo I am not here to battle you, we have much in common......just not LCD opinions.

I also edited this on a LCD monitor

[CheffoJeffo]

As I told genesim, I have lots of LCDs .. including the monitors that I use with my computers, such as the one I am posting from.

As I told genesim, I don't object to folks using LCDs in their PC-based cabinets.

As I told genesim, the sad thing is that the folks who lose from the demise of the CRT are the folks who actually are preserving actual arcade machines.

Only a noob would think that I would "stroke" a moderator -- if I had a dollar for every time that saint thought about banning me, I could probably open that store that Flake talked about.

You deigned to make the ridiculous statement that "this is BYOAC" and that my viewpoint doesn't below here -- that's arrogant.

I don't think that you understand what my perspective actually is -- I am sad because the demise of the CRT makes restoration and preservation more difficult, not because I think everybody should put CRTs in their MAIM cabs.

I am not sure why you seem to think that I have 9 beater machines that I got from eBay. I have 24 machines, of which 8 are beaters, but none of those beaters came from eBay.

You may not be here to battle me, but I am one of those folks who love coin-op and don't like it when folks cheer events that harm the hobby.

[pinballwizard79]

Settle down Steven Segall I was only off by one beater, you have 8 not 9.

FYI: I am not cheering at the demise of CRT for the purpose of restorations.

Thanks for the nickname of genesim, yours is "arcade prima donna".

Death by ungabunga!!!

Whatev, Cheffo lets get back to drinking & retro gaming (on the same team)!!!!!!!

[Blanka]

Seriously.  Why can't I hook my 2600 to my LCD?!

This LCD is pretty capable:

Problem still is the 2600 though. A console without composite is ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. And then the 2600 itself. It got Americans addicted to gaming, but that's the only memorable fact. Remember Pac-Man for the 2600? Even the Philips P2000 had better Pac-Man.

And it didn't become a hit in Europe, so it was not that good. So 2600 is mostly for T-shirts now:

The games can be forgotten.

[Flake]

This is the only place where people seem to relish the end of the CRT and taunt those of us who use CRTs.

What does that mean for those of us involved in true restoration and preservation of arcade goodness ?

Look, I have a CRT TV in my cab and I love it.  I'm not trying to accelerate the push of CRT's out the door.  I'm merely saying this is where we are at and this is were we are going - you either accept that now or I suppose you can continue to post 17,000 messages about your love for CRT's.  But eventually this is going to fall on deaf ears. 

I personally dont "relish" the end of the CRT, for me specifically, I dont know where the hell I'm going to get a 4:3 aspect ration display once my 27" Toshiba CRT TV display shoots craps.

I suggest if your that worried about it you should make a point to spend your entire savings stocking up on what arcade monitors are still out there.  Think of it this way, you could have the little market of die hard CRT users cornered.  Who knows, you may even make a profit....

[CheffoJeffo]

OK, I've been a little punchy lately and this topic is one of those that sets me off (perhaps due to the running battle with genesim last time around). I offer my apologies for going off on PBW79 and Flake.

As for stocking up, I have 7 monitors in reserve, including 4 19", and will be picking up another today. Unfortunately, I have 5 projects requiring 19" monitors, so won't have any left in reserve.

It seems that Betson still has 19" in stock, but I don't know how long that will last. Ken has been kind enough to post a list of other suppliers over on KLOV.

I will be interested to see what RickN has been working on with respect to LCDs and classic games.

[Flake]

Cheffo -

Well hey you dont have to apologize to me, I didnt really take any offense to your comments.  I understand your point of view.

A little off topic but if you have 24 cabs you must have a sweet game room.  Why dont you post some pics for us all to see? You must have one of the largest collections on this forum.

Your not anti-digital camera are you?  Still using Polaroid?     I'm kidding of course, couldnt help myself.....

[CheffoJeffo]

The game room is a shambles and there are no immediate plans for renovation (RealLife(tm) stepped in and consumed the budget), so it isn't picture-worthy right now.

But, to show you how old school I have become, here is a picture of a game that I brought home today (thanks RayB -- she plays great!)... and for which replacement monitors have not been made for a LOOOOONG time.

[pinballwizard79]

They sell replacement monitors for that arcade here: http://promorx.com/poet.html 

Ok, that wasnt nice..........sorry.

Anyway man a little salty talk between us is good so no apologies.......& I still dunno wtf this "genesim" thing means so post a wiki about it or be all old school & just type up an addendum for your encyclopedia britannica (ok, that was my last cheap shot I promise).

Truce.................for now

[CheffoJeffo]

genesim is a former member here and you aren't anywhere near as opinionated as he was, no matter what I said before.

 

[RetroGreg]

FWIW I have a 32" Vizio that has all the inputs I will ever need (coax, composite, s video, component, d sub, and HDMI). I could hook up any system I own to it. I researched all the tv's in my price range and specifically bought the one I did based on the inputs and reviews. They're out there if you look for them.

But I really doubt I would ever hook up my 2600 to it rather than just emulate what I want to play. It's not worth the space or dealing with the old harware. Not to mention if your paddles still work well. 

[wp34]

The game room is a shambles and there are no immediate plans for renovation (RealLife(tm) stepped in and consumed the budget), so it isn't picture-worthy right now.

But, to show you how old school I have become, here is a picture of a game that I brought home today (thanks RayB -- she plays great!)... and for which replacement monitors have not been made for a LOOOOONG time.

Wow that is cool.

[Barry Barcrest]

Probably the only thing that will die on an LCD is the fluorescent tube. I guess it's not very hard to replace. In the worst case, you can make a new backlight out of regular TL5 tubes with a good diffuser.

I've had several people ask me to fix their LCDs that had perfectly working backlights.  The power supplies crap out and so do the controller boards - just like any other mass produced complex electronic device.  The power supplies are usually replaceable but the damn SMD controllers are pretty much death sentences if anything on it dies.

The only thing i have had to replace is the invertor. People normaly say that the backlight is gone when in actual fact it's the invertor.

[Ummon]

What does that mean for those of us involved in true restoration and preservation of arcade goodness ?

Hahahahahah.

[ChadTower]

The games can be forgotten.

Yeah, that flies on a forum like this.   

[Blanka]

Yeah, that flies on a forum like this.   

We are arcade junkies or not? The 2600 versions are not the most accurate ones. However, my statement was very loose, and I checked the real 2600 games AFTER my statement for the first time, and I have to admit that some games are genius on how they are stuffed onto 4Kb!

[SavannahLion]

The games can be forgotten.

Yeah, that flies on a forum like this.   

Or AtariAge. I can't think of very many groups that not only go out and make brand spanking new games for such an old console but go through the effort of printing, packaging and marketing those new games to the public. I only wish they wouldn't destroy old carts to do so (even if they're only ET's and Pacmans).

[ChadTower]

Or AtariAge. I can't think of very many groups that not only go out and make brand spanking new games for such an old console but go through the effort of printing, packaging and marketing those new games to the public. I only wish they wouldn't destroy old carts to do so (even if they're only ET's and Pacmans).

Truth.  I've been an AtariAge member way longer than BYOAC.

[Ummon]

I don't follow that one. Tons of each, neither liked. Quite good as fodder.

[XtraSmiley]

For you 2600 (and other) gamers out there, I got one of these about 7 years ago and it worked a million times better than that crappy RF box.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Atari-2600-%26-7800---NEW-TV-Audio-Video-Cable-dapter_W0QQitemZ270366885109QQcmdZViewItem

I paid about $1 for it then, but $5 now still seems like a steal to get one.  Also, the picture was much cleaner with this than the RF box I had.

[wbassett]

Not meaning to step on any toes, tick anyone off or say anything to start a fight!

I have a 22" CRT in my cab right now, but in defense of LCDs I had a 26" LCD hooked up to my primary personal computer (not to be confused with PC, but my own PC, not my work setup) and it literally has been running 24x7 since 2005. 

When I say 'had', it doesn't mean it died.  I replaced my main computer's 26" LCD with a 32" LCD and moved the 26" over to my secondary system in my computer room.  It is still working perfect and just as bright as ever and not a single bad pixel.

I personally wouldn't have any problem switching to an LCD in my cab as far as fear of failure.  BTW, I bought my 32" LCD AND a 22" LCD for my work PC (Both 720p HDTVs with PC inputs) for less than what I paid for the 26 incher four years ago!

Will I have them 20 years from now?  Probably not.  But I doubt my 22" CRT will last that long either.

[Bluedeath]

LCD panel itself (in theory) lasts almost forever what gets dim overtime is the backlight but replacing it costs more thank buyng a new one. Panel controller tends to die more for bad assembly than from the ages.
Said that unless you are buildiong a cab to play Street fighter4 /street fighter vs tastunoko o soldner X (that are the current generation arcade cames and are 16/9) i would use a CRT.

[AndyWarne]

There are quite a few issues with the original statement.

The very first arcade monitors were TVs with the RF and other unnecessary parts not fitted to the PCB.
Then the next variants, the most common, were based on TV electronics but with specifically designed chassis. Thats why they are 15Khz scan rate, as a TV, and they used TV CRTs. CRT tubes used in all the classic arcade monitors are TV tubes.
It also explains why they needed isolation transformers, as they used the same design of very simple non-isolated power supply as a TV.
 
LCDs will not be damaged by gaming. Plasma screen might be an issue when displaying game-type graphics over a very long period of time but not LCD.

LCDs which can accept 15Khz horizontal scan have been around for a while and are extensively used in Asian arcade cabs.

Its not the case that LCDs cannot display anything other than certain vertical scan rates such as 60 Hz etc. They do often have built-in limits but they will generally go down to around 45 Hz. The min horizontal scan rate is usually limited to 30Khz though so you cant connect a 15Khz source to a standard LCD screen, you would need one of the special 15Khz-capable ones.

But there is not really any point in getting a 15Khz-capable LCD for Mame because the picture will not be any different to a 31Khz one, and not be any closer to a CRT picture, where each scan line is a game pixel (when using native resolution). The LCD will have a large number of physical screen pixels per game pixel. If you run at 31Khz it just means twice the number of LCD pixels, vertically, than there would be at 15Khz.

Thats not to say there is no advantage in using native resolutions on an LCD screen. There is almost as much advantage as on a CRT screen, because no stretching is required to be done by the VGA card or Mame.

CRTs are almost history as eventually the last CRT tube plant will close and that will be the end of it.

Golden Tee, which are probably the most common real coin-op video machines are now using LCD.

Andy