Forgotten Worlds - Spinner as analog dial and push button?

[vestax]

Hey guys, I tried doing a research but can't seem to find what I'm looking for. I used to play Forgotten Worlds on the arcades in the 90's and the layout was a joystick and a push button/analog dial combination for playing. Basically, the dial allows you to turn your player 360 but when pressing down it, you can move your weapon 360 instead of the character. Also, pressing the dial down twice, will eliminate any character on the screen. I have the joystick but can't seem to track down the dial. How do I get a hold of something like this for Mame?

[mrclean]

Looking at the control panel I think you need a push/pull spinner.

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=311

[vestax]

Looking at the control panel I think you need a push/pull spinner.

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=311

mrclean, thank you very much for that.

I was on the groovegamegear site earlier, and I was hoping it wouldn't be that TT, pretty expensive. I was wondering if there are any other alternatives. If not, I'll probably grab that unit.

[brokentoken]

You know, I've been playing Forgotten Worlds on and off for 20 years, and never knew that trick about hitting the button twice to destroy all characters on the screen.  Nice.

After I had to get rid of my FW cabinet, I came up with an alternative in my MAME cab just for this game.  It's not authentic, or perfect, but it works well.  If you install these optical joysticks:

http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/rotary_optical_joy.htm

with an Optipac or other encoder, you can twist the joystick to rotate the weapon, move the player with the joystick, and use a regular button to fire.  That configuration allows you to have a cleaner installation/play more games in the cab, and is generally cheaper.  (find 'em cheaper on ebay)

FWIW...

[Turnarcades]

It's always been a pet hate of mine when people go to extreme costs to partly re-create controls for just one MAME game, but if you're gonna do it, be sure the expense is worth it first and get the best you can. If you have to go for one, bite the bullet and get the best, which seems like the push/pull spinner. Optical/analog devices are never going to be cheap and if you get the less expensive ones you will notice the huge drop in quality.

[BASS!]

why not just get a joystick with a top fire button, then you can get the regular spinner.

[RetroGreg]

why not just get a joystick with a top fire button, then you can get the regular spinner.

+1

I play it like that as well. Not perfect, but close enough for me.

[vestax]

You know, I've been playing Forgotten Worlds on and off for 20 years, and never knew that trick about hitting the button twice to destroy all characters on the screen.  Nice.

After I had to get rid of my FW cabinet, I came up with an alternative in my MAME cab just for this game.  It's not authentic, or perfect, but it works well.  If you install these optical joysticks:

http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/rotary_optical_joy.htm

with an Optipac or other encoder, you can twist the joystick to rotate the weapon, move the player with the joystick, and use a regular button to fire.  That configuration allows you to have a cleaner installation/play more games in the cab, and is generally cheaper.  (find 'em cheaper on ebay)

FWIW...

LOL yeah that double tap trick works on small enemies and when you need a lot of coins quick. Warning though, it takes a bit of your health when you do it.

I had this local arcade place that I went to everyday as a kid, I would play Strider, Forgotten Worlds, and Street Fighter (back in 1992?), which I beat each with 1 quarter. I was a money saving kid. hahaha. Those 3 games I'm willing to fork out money now to get it to where it used to be.

Thanks for for info, very much appreciated.

[vestax]

It's always been a pet hate of mine when people go to extreme costs to partly re-create controls for just one MAME game, but if you're gonna do it, be sure the expense is worth it first and get the best you can. If you have to go for one, bite the bullet and get the best, which seems like the push/pull spinner. Optical/analog devices are never going to be cheap and if you get the less expensive ones you will notice the huge drop in quality.

I see what you mean and I agree, I was just wondering if there's any alternatives. I'll probably will end up going with the push/pull spinner.

The top button joystick and regular spinner sounds like good idea but in the long run, I think I prefer the regular controls from the original.

[u_rebelscum]

Yeah, Forgotten Worlds was one of my favorites.  Part of what made it so good was the controller was perfect for the game, and the game perfect for the controller.  Just like 720.

FWIW, the other push.pull spinner still out there is the apache blackhawk.  I'd probably go with the TT-HL, but I don't have either so.... don't decide on my say so. (I do have the excellent TT2, though).

[vestax]

Question, these spinners you guys are posting, if you push... does it spring back to top position?

[u_rebelscum]

Question, these spinners you guys are posting, if you push... does it spring back to top position?

They recenter.  The reason they're called push-pull is if you push down, one switch closes, and if you pull up, another switch closes.  The FW spinner was just a "push" spinner because pulling it up didn't act like a second button.

[leapinlew]

This was a favorite of mine too

also, the chick in the store was hot.

[TPB]

To my knowledge, FW doesn't require a "free spinning" spinner.  Within this game, the spinner is used in a precise, controlled manner, like a dial or paddle.

The 3Dconnexion SpaceNavigator PE might do the job ?

It's an analogue dial with push & pull functionality (the push & pull, is designed for zooming in & out).

It has good reviews from Google Earth users, who report it has a nice, solid, heavy feel about it.

You can buy it New from this Amazon merchant for $39.99 + $5.49 shipping :

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LB41BM?ie=UTF8&seller=A3G310FDDXR40D&sn=directsale


The only issue is whether it works with Mame.

DeLuSioNal29 bought one recently, it'd be nice to know how he went :

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=90339.msg948570#msg948570

[u_rebelscum]

To my knowledge, FW doesn't require a "free spinning" spinner.   Within this game, the spinner is used in a precise, controlled manner, like a dial or paddle.

The 3Dconnexion SpaceNavigator PE might do the job ?

It would feel very different than a spinner.  It's an absolute analog controller (spinners are relative analog).

It's an analogue dial with push & pull functionality (the push & pull, is designed for zooming in & out).

It has good reviews from Google Earth users, who report it has a nice, solid, heavy feel about it....

I like mine, too, but...

The only issue is whether it works with Mame.

DeLuSioNal29 bought one recently, it'd be nice to know how he went :

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=90339.msg948570#msg948570

It didn't woek with stock mame when I tried a couple years ago.  I think it could, with some hacks to mame.  It doesn't register as a mouse (or pointer controller) nor a joystick (game controller).  Mame only looks at those two & keyboard type inputs.  I think all that needs to be done is copy the joystick enumeration function, make the changes so it looks for whatever type the controller is calling itself and add that to the end of the "joystick" list, and have mame enum it after it enums the joysticks.

[GregorDV]

This is one of my favorites, and a big reason to be building a cab.  I'm inclined to getting a push/pull spinner for that FW goodness, but I'm curious how well the push/pull spinners work for normal spinner games (I'd hate to have to choose between a good FW experience and good Tempest experience).  Is there anybody who has one that would like to give a quick review?

[DeLuSioNal29]

TPB... cover your ears, you already heard this in a PM. 

So far, it has not gotten to work with any MAME products.  The products has very strict drivers and work only with specific applications supported.  I would have to decompile the drivers in order to have any hope of making it work.  However, am no programmer, so basically I wasted my money.

It does work great with Google Earth though.  But I may still return it as I can't find any other use for it.  I was hoping it would work with my editing software.  SIGH.

~ D

[TPB]

Hi Delusional,

Thanks for your report.  Much appreciated.

You've saved the rest of us from experiencing your wallet stress.   


The TT-HL from GGG remains the best option for FW and other games (such as DOT) that use a spinner with push/pull buttons.

[u_rebelscum]

TPB... cover your ears, you already heard this in a PM. 

So far, it has not gotten to work with any MAME products.  The products has very strict drivers and work only with specific applications supported.  I would have to decompile the drivers in order to have any hope of making it work.  However, am no programmer, so basically I wasted my money.

As I mentioned above, all we need to do is hack mame's code a little.  In fact, 3dconnexion has samples that use directX DirectInput, and they explicitly say the drivers are ignored.

To quote one of their sample's text file:

Since the 3DxWare driver is not used for DI [DirectInput] applications, you don't get the
 advantages the driver provides.  In particular, you get raw data from the device.
 A) The data is completely linear, the driver makes it slightly non-linear.
 B) The driver implements a small region around the rest position that prevents
    the application from getting data while the device cap bounces back and forth,
    or emits a small vector if it isn't centered accurately.
 If you want these effects, you must implement them yourself.

Point B is already implemented with mame's deadzone, and the first, well, not sure how much that will effect mame.

I tried looking for the code I've already played with, but couldn't find it.  I'll see if I can patch something up this weekend.

It does work great with Google Earth though.  But I may still return it as I can't find any other use for it.  I was hoping it would work with my editing software.

Well, if it doesn't work with your software (or might be better phrased "if your software doesn't work with the hardware" depending on POV), and you don't want to hack mame, yeah, google earth and (if you use it) google sketchup aren't much reason to keep it.  I've keep mine, though.  Up 2 you.