Automated restrictor plates and Randy T's to do list.

[lordtodd75]

How hard would it be to make a joystick restrictor plate that rotates automatically (4-way to 8-way) that also opens (no restriction) automatically depending on what game you are playing in mame. Does not seem to be a very difficult venture for someone with engineering skills. What does everyone think? This was to be my big contribution to the mame community but alas, I do not even know where to start.

My thinking so far:
-Fashion a flat metal plate that has a diamond cut out of the center, then cut the plate in half. 1/4 turn rotation would take you from 4way to 8way. Pull it apart at the cut to remove restriction.
-Use 2 motors for Automated movement, one with a worm gear to open and close the plate, one with a rotational gear to handle the rotation.
-Use info from controls.ini (or whatever the mame equivalent is nowadays) to have the computer send a "signal" that tells the motors what to do.

Is this doable? Like i said, it sounds easy enough to someone that has never really worked with motors or interfacing mame with hardware.
Questions, Comments, Suggestions?

[Ginsu Victim]

Seems like it would be difficult to do without needing a decent footprint.

[lordtodd75]

So is that your way of saying it would be too large 

[Xiaou2]

 I had started work on this a long time ago...

 Easy as it may seem... its a lot more complex than it appears.
Especially when such extreme accuracy is needed at all times.  And the
amount of pressure/forces/abuses must be withstood.

 Would probably be expensive, huge, and take a decent time to assemble.

 I reserve the rights to this concept, which shall not be made commercial
without my permission.. (probably for the low cost of a few pieces of actual
hardware   )

 I believe the drawing is a bit reversed.  I have it correct on my paper sketches...
but made some mistakes when I went to make a photoshop demo version.
Probably to do with the Pivot point.

 My device uses one motor to open and close the gates via slots on a huge gear.
It can have several gate arrays, thus needing more motors to drive each
gear unit.   The design had ability for 2,4,8 and round restriction, all in one
unit.  Id have to find the paper sketch to show it.. and or spend a few moments
thinking about how I had laid it all out.

[RandyT]

Mechanically speaking, there are a few fairly simple way to do this.  The problem is that simple still costs $$$ because of the special parts required.  It would also need to be limited to whatever power is typically available from a PC power supply and it could not be passive.  I.e. it requires a brain of some nature and the ability handle the type of power needed to drive the mechanisms.  Maybe something that can take a signal from an LED-Wiz.

But I tend to think that most folks are probably not going to want to spend what it would cost to automate something like this...

I'll keep kicking it around, as I have in the past.  Who knows, maybe a cheap way will present itself.

RandyT

[Ginsu Victim]

With the LEDwiz, I could see it being something as simple as a small motor rotating a restrictor plate from 4-way to 8-way, using three inputs (clockwise, ground, counter-clockwise) running off the wiz. It's just a question of how to mount it and keep the size down.

[Aceldamor]

I have an Idea, but involves me drawing..and i'm at work. Let me putz around with this, if possible, I would like to perhaps get some input from RandyT on it as well.

Long story short, make a "Cage" that resembles the framework of a table. 4 legs, braced with crossbeams. Make the legs long enough, with a thin top mount that allows you to use the joystick mounting screws to mount the cage, and using the body of the stick for support. L shaped legs.  At the bottom of the legs would be small gears that house a master gear that has the diamond cut from it's center.  A small motor mount can be made to attach to the frame, then use another  small shaft with a gear at the bottom that will drive the gear clockwise/counter clockwise. A small motor like in slot cars.

I know this sounds rather silly, but i'm hoping I can clarify with a drawing later.

[SavannahLion]

With the LEDwiz, I could see it being something as simple as a small motor rotating a restrictor plate from 4-way to 8-way, using three inputs (clockwise, ground, counter-clockwise) running off the wiz. It's just a question of how to mount it and keep the size down.

You can cut it down to two by reversing the polarity on the two inputs. On a "dumb" motor system, this gives you three distinct states (clockwise, OFF, counterclockwise). On something more intelligent this easily gives you four states or more if pulsing is involved. Using the LEDWiz, you're probably going to have an intermediary circuit anyways to protect the LEDWiz from a stalled motor.

I think that feedback is probably necessary for whatever automated system is devised. Whether internalized feedback to detect a stalled or stuck motor (visualize a soda spill right into the guts of this) or some type of state feedback so the system can detect aperture shape on startup.

What about using camera lenses as a model for something like this? Can a set of four "rotating" aperture leafs be made to create a square then diamond pattern?

[RandyT]

With the LEDwiz, I could see it being something as simple as a small motor rotating a restrictor plate from 4-way to 8-way, using three inputs (clockwise, ground, counter-clockwise) running off the wiz. It's just a question of how to mount it and keep the size down.

A rotating restrictor would be the simplest, but also somewhat less effective.  One of the admittedly minor drawbacks of rotating restricted sticks is that the 8-way restriction tends to feel a little truncated and the square restriction makes diagonals a bit easy to hit.  Great for a game like Q-bert, but regular 8-way games sometimes need a little adjustment period.

Ideally, the 4-way restriction should completely "disappear" from the equation when not needed.  So any would be inventors should, IMHO, think in those terms.

RandyT

[Ummon]

Well, right off the bat to me is whether it should be 'square' or 'circular'. If circular, and I've mentioned this in past discuissions on this, then a swirling type of restrictor might work, and would have a range relative to the mapping of a stick like the U360.

[Burn4Evr]

Maybe a fresh look at this might be helpful, instead of modifying the old system (restrictor plate) have a new idea of actually doing the restricting.
Personally I am thinking of something like that gator socket (you know the one, its said to fit on any nut size but the entire assembly is too large to actually be any use)
Anyways, instead of rotating a plate, why not just raise and lower "pins" to create a restrictor.

Attached is a HORRIBLE paint picture, but I hope it gets my idea across

[Cornchip]

 Two disks would give you 4 and 8 way restriction with a 45 degree throw for each in opposite directions. I drew the diagonals as well knowing that the complexity would increase due to all three disks needing 3 stop positions to create 4,8 and diagonals. I could see this design working in a modified Wico base due to the fact that no spring or pivot point would interfere with this restrictor. I wouldn't mind this kind of modification to get a 'real' 4 way stick to slide between the corners on a Pacman type game. Otherwise, I'm just fine with my round restrictor  using the U360 mapping.

 So I'm proposing a Wico (rubber) base with the two disk 4-8 way restrictor mod and the U360 PCB adapted to the base. Might have something there? Keeping the size down by relocating the 'method' of rotating the disks could be accomplished with simple bicycle shift/brake cables. I just can't see motors anywhere near the joystick base with wiring and buttons being so close. Pretty much anything you do is somehow going be a compromise, never resulting in perfection.

 Cornchip.

 

[Ummon]

We need them thar nanotech folks ta be makin us some stuff, yeah.

[Cornchip]

 In true nanotech fashion, these things would just replicate themselves.