Please critique my control panel (very detailed with pics)

[grumlenz]

I have been going at this for days trying to get it right. It's now about 5 A.M. and I think I am done. I want to send this off to Mameroom on Monday but first, I wanted to see if I could get some input from all of you who are obviously more experienced than me. This is my first panel. One pic is of the panel in the Mameroom design program in white, one in color, and the other is a full size cardboard mock-up. I don't have any controls to use so I had to use paper cutouts. Everything is to scale and laid out to exact measurements. The little black smudge by the 4 top buttons is just from my camera. The black (not very good) circle is the trackball.


Panel: 48" wide, 21" deep

Player 1 and 2: 7 button layout, slight curve, 1 3/8" spacing center to center (except button 7). 3" from joystick center to first button center. Buttons 2 and 5 are 3/8" up from 1 and 4. Buttons 3 and 6 are 1/4" up from buttons 1 and 4. This felt the most comfortable, 1.5" spacing seemed slightly too much, I have small hands I guess. Joystick centers are 6.8" from bottom of panel.

Player 3 and 4: 4 button layout, not angled, 1 3/8" spacing center to center. 3" from joystick center to first button center. Buttons 2 and 4 are 3/8" up from 1 and 3. Joystick centers are 12" from bottom of panel. I left them straight and un-angled on purpose, you just have to turn your neck to see the screen not your whole body. I had my friends stand as if they were playing and 4 could comfortably fit. Also, this way I don't have to worry about the angle the joysticks are mounted at, and whether or not up is really up.

3" Trackball: Centered, 6" to player 2 joystick center, 6" to far right player 1 button center. 6.8" from bottom of panel.

Top 4 center buttons: Admin (I know these can be used as shifted functions but I want to make it easy for guests). However, I am not completely sure what to do with them yet. Most likely Pause and Enter, not sure yet about the other two. Maybe Escape, with a 3 second time to hold the button down to avoid accidents. Not really sure...

8 other top buttons: Player 1-4 start and player 1-4 coin. The button pairs have 1 3/8" spacing as well.

4 way joystick/spinner/buttons: (4 way joystick #40) 3.5" to spinner on the right (#41) 3.5" to 2 buttons on the right (is 2 buttons enough for all the games that go with the 4 way and the spinner??). 1 3/8" spacing on the buttons. About 8.5" down from the buttons to the trackball center, so there is enough room to rest your palm comfortably. The buttons will be used for both the spinner and the 4 way (I think this is possible??). Also, if possible the two buttons would be used for left and right mouse buttons. Any ideas if I can do all that? Is 3.5" enough spacing between the joy/spinner?


I know that's a lot of info but I figured it would be best to include it all up front. Please let me know if you think I am missing or should change anything. I have seen some people with another joystick to the right of where I have my 2 buttons for the 4 way and spinner. I am not sure what this would be for, I know it would make it look more symmetrical, but what's it for? Also, any input on not angling the player 3 and 4 setups? I have seen a few people who have done it. I figured I might as well since I have the room. Thanks!

I definitely appreciate any feedback. Pretty much everything I have gotten done is from asking questions on this forum and reading posts. Thank you for any input!

[ryantheleach]

im not too experianced, not having made one, but it looks like players 3 and 4 may want to be rotated a bit...

[Cakemeister]

I personally would make the four joysticks collinear for two player Karate Champ and Smash TV.

Most of the time it will be just you playing so I think you should optimize for the most games you can play comfortably with one player.

[grumlenz]

By that, you mean to have all 4 lined up evenly, the same distance from the bottom of the panel? I guess that could work, the only downfall is player 4 won't really have much room to rest their hand. However, 90% of the time it will be just 2 or 1 person playing.

[Cakemeister]

By that, you mean to have all 4 lined up evenly, the same distance from the bottom of the panel?

Yep. Also, don't angle the joysticks, make them all point the same way.

[Endaar]

I'm still mocking-up my own (2P) panel, but the one thing that stands out on yours is how close the 2P stick is to the trackball. For games like Marble Madness I think this would be a problem.

[ark_ader]

Looks fine to me.

Make sure you get ample room for your buddies to play comfortably.

Let us know how you get on.   

[Turnarcades]

There's nothing wrong with angling player 3+4's joysticks though if you are interested in playing those few games that use 2 per player you will want them fairly close together and pointing in the same direction. That size is plenty big enough for what you want to do, though ask yourself if you really need a dedicated 4-way stick and uttons as there are many switchable or programmable sticks that will do the job just as well, plus P1's buttons can be used if playing spinner or trackball games.

[grumlenz]

the one thing that stands out on yours is how close the 2P stick is to the trackball. For games like Marble Madness I think this would be a problem.

I have 6" between the center of the 3" trackball and the P2 joystick. It felt like it would be enough room on the cardboard mock. The Mameroom default is 5.5" so I actually pulled it out a little bit. Hopefully that's enough. I am not sure what most people use...Anyone?

Looks fine to me.

Make sure you get ample room for your buddies to play comfortably.

Let us know how you get on.   

Thanks! I will post up a project thread once my parts start coming in.

There's nothing wrong with angling player 3+4's joysticks though if you are interested in playing those few games that use 2 per player you will want them fairly close together and pointing in the same direction. That size is plenty big enough for what you want to do, though ask yourself if you really need a dedicated 4-way stick and uttons as there are many switchable or programmable sticks that will do the job just as well, plus P1's buttons can be used if playing spinner or trackball games.

I thought about using a switchable joystick, and I probably would have gone that route if this panel was not as large as it is. I think it would look weird with nothing or almost nothing between the player controls and the top. I appreciate your input, I still may end up leaving it off. On a side note, does anyone know what an additional joystick would be for? I have seen many with their main player controls, a dedicated 4 way, and 1 more joystick. A lot of them are the larger "Tron" style and some are just a regular size. I guess I am just wondering what exactly the point of this is. Thanks!

[Turnarcades]

The extra sticks you sometimes see are usually a dedicated 4 or 2-way and a flight stick. As the U360 does a pretty good job of replicating a true analog stick then not many bother with this anymore. When it comes to joystick options, people tend not to go overboard and create a frankenpanel and instead find one stick that has a few more options as they are easy to find these days.

Personally, I think a good 8-way is fine, a 4/8-way switchable is better, and a U360 is the nuts if you want all those extra options for those few games that use them.

[FrizzleFried]

There's nothing wrong with angling player 3+4's joysticks though if you are interested in playing those few games that use 2 per player you will want them fairly close together and pointing in the same direction. That size is plenty big enough for what you want to do, though ask yourself if you really need a dedicated 4-way stick and uttons as there are many switchable or programmable sticks that will do the job just as well, plus P1's buttons can be used if playing spinner or trackball games.

You NEVER want to angle your sticks... EVER. 

Even if your 3rd and 4th player are sitting way on the side,  ALWAYS face the stick forward toward the monitor... and frankly,  I am surprised that a "builder" of CP's is recommending the opposite?! 

[Turnarcades]

I commented on this in another post Friz:

Quote from: HarumaN on 17-02-2009, 18:51:58
Are the player 3 & 4 joys mounted on an angle?


Yes. A lot of people critique this layout based on a lot of original 4-player cabinets having sticks that were aligned with the screen, however the trials I did had people saying they felt no disorientation with angled sticks and we have stuck with this layout ever since. If you think about it, you don't look at your controls while you play so why should anyone experience difficulty? We've all played multi-player console games and it's rare you will all be sat square on with the TV with your joypad (at least not in homes I've lived in) so it's really no different.

If the customer had specified a preference for forward-facing sticks we would do that, but quite often the 3rd and 4th players are a rarity so most people would not bother. Keeping the regular layout for those player's buttons and bringing them square with the monitor would also mean making the control panel much wider and ungainly anyway so no-one has ever asked for that.

It does tend to be a British preference (a point I've highlighted many times with other design aspects) but as explained above you can see my reasoning behind it. Our customers love this as it makes for more compact panels, and no customer has ever asked for forward-facing, or ever queried why they are angled.

[FrizzleFried]

I dunno... I learned in CONTROL PANEL CREATION 101 that you never want to angle your sticks... 

[cmoses]

I dunno... I learned in CONTROL PANEL CREATION 101 that you never want to angle your sticks... 

Just starting my control panel and could really use the "Control Panel Creation 101" class.  Do you think they are allowing late adds?  Can I take it Pass/Fail?   

[FrizzleFried]

Sure thing... tuition is $350.00 plus book fee...

[u_rebelscum]

You NEVER want to angle your sticks... EVER. 

I've said my 2 cents on this before, but I'll state it again:

Depending on which type of game (sometimes which exact game) I'm playing, sometimes I do better with angled sticks, sometimes with straight.  Gauntlet and top down view games do better with straight, side scroll do better with angled (usually).

However, all four cases I sometimes go the wrong way; the better 2 cases, mentioned above, do go wrong way not as often than the other two, but none are perfect.  Which directions I have problems with depends on game type & stick rotation.  And no matter which game or type, or how the sticks are mounted, I always do better with the middle two sticks.

Of course, there are other variables that do influence how many direction mistakes I make with the control besides straight vs angled & type of game: total width of CP, size of screen, distance from screen, how far back the screen leans, orientation of buttons relative to the stick, left side vs right side, my body rotation, and how tired I am.

I've tested these out on mock ups, and have not found a perfect rule for the outside players for me.  Maybe most people prefer straight sticks all the time, but not me (and apparently some or most UK people).

Do a mock up and play different games and see what works for you (or the who's going to play it the most).  I won't be surprised if you follow the (US) crowd and prefer straight, but you might be like us weirdos (me & 'dem UK wankers).

[abzman2000]

does anyone have a nice close up pattern of the 1st or 2nd player layout? I REALLY want to do mine like that, but I can't find measurments for that exact layouts, only ones similar. 

[grumlenz]

does anyone have a nice close up pattern of the 1st or 2nd player layout? I REALLY want to do mine like that, but I can't find measurments for that exact layouts, only ones similar. 

I had to change my measurements from 1 3/8" spacing as I originally wanted to 1 1/2" to allow room for the buttons to be tightened underneath. Attached is a link where you can download my file and open it in the Mameroom Control Panel Designer. Sorry it's not a close up but you can get exact measurements and spacing from it. Once I receive the panel I will post up pictures. It took me a long time going over designs and then finding things I didn't like and starting over. This is the final product, hopefully it comes out good. Here's the link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HR8NE1JV

[evitagen]

In my opinion, I wouldn't even have a 4-player panel unless the monitor was huge... Like a showcase cabinet or something.  I know it's cool to make use of 4-player games and all, but I really hate shoulder bumping and when the screen is too small it's just annoying being the 3rd or 4th player, imo.

I thought a long time about making a 4-player panel, but I settled on 2 because I just didn't think it was going to be worth it for the very few 4-player games out there.

I like the panel though!  Just wanted to state that I put a lot of thought into going 2 or 4 player and I settled on 2 and couldn't be happier.  Of course, my panel is boring as all hell and has very minimal buttons.  If you want to check it out I just posted it in the 'show off your CP' stickied thread.

And yeah, I'd vote for not angling as well just because it always confuses me when I play on them.

[grumlenz]

Yeah I thought about going with 2 as well for awhile. In the end 4 will be better for me for now. I am not married, have no kids or anything. I am 25 and have 2 room mates and friends over all the time so I figured 2 player wouldn't be enough. There would always be that 1 or 2 other people watching when they could be playing (certain games of course). I have a 27" monitor so it's not huge but it will work. The way I look at it is that this is my first build and I can learn from it and do better next time. However, the full size cardboard mock panel I built felt relatively comfortable with 4 people "acting" like we were playing. Just can't have any 300 lb. guys and it should be good! I went to a local bowling alley (cheesy I know, but we don't have any arcades) and tested out the angled joystick on some game they had there. It was awkward, so I decided 4 straight would be the way to go. Scott at Mameroom said it was being cut today so I should have it soon.

[evitagen]

Awesome.

Make sure and post some pics when you have everything set up.