Lots of questions.... plus some exclusive ones for Aussies.

[Isometric Bacon]

G'day mates. I've been wanting to create one of these cabinets for some time now, but I've never really had an excuse to get started, but now I have.
For school (final year) we are able to work on a independent design project, and i'm seriously thinking of doing an arcade system.

There are only a few problems, money (being still a high school student) and time. (I have a deadline of around 12 weeks.) I mainly will be working on this on weekends, (and in a week, I will have two weeks of which when i'm not partying i'll try everything to build this cabinet )

I basically have most of the tools here, a drillpress, disc sander etc. I don't have a jigsaw, but I should be able to make a relatively square cabinet and disc-sand the edges right? or use a file? Then agian, I don't think i'll even have curves... Kind of like this guy's design http://www.pioproductions.com/cpu.htm
I also don't have those button hole maker drill bits, but hopefully I can use ones at the school.

The beauty is I already have a 20" TV/Monitor for use (My dad got it from his bank, it's around 20 years old, but it should do. I haven't tried PC resolutions on it yet, but console systems and TV works fine. I have a PC to TV adapter around here somewhere too.)

I also have a PC ready to gut, an AMD 450 with around 300 megs of RAM and a Riva TNT.  Not the best, but I plan to upgrade it sometime in the future. I'd also like to include Dreamcast compatibility, but I understand I probably can't do that if i'm going to hardwire a keyboard right?

Speaking of which, i've been thinking about controls. Where are some good suppliers in Australia? OZStick looks nice, and they seem to have quite good prices. (http://home.iprimus.com.au/ozstick/parts.html)

The only thing that worries me, is the Joysticks. I want some 8-way 4 way switchable ones, but Ozstick's aren't, although they quote that they "work well with 4 way games" Is this true? I'd hate to buy them and find out they're useless for old school games.

I was also looking to use the "PB04" buttons. They're much cheaper than the "PB01" buttons, with the only difference that they have a shallow dimple, and make more noise (I love clicky buttons, so this doesn't bother me.) Is this the right path to take?

Another question relating to buttons, is it really worth me getting a IPAC control system? They're rather expensive (at $94) and I'd much rather hack apart some old keyboard (we have plenty) then solder up the connections myself. I heard this can lead to some "button locking" at times though. Is this a major problem? or just a minor niggle than can be ignored? Which one would you reccomend, keeping in mind the small budget of this cabinet?

I've even been thinking of forgoeing the whole make your own control box thing, and getting a X-arcade stick... but judging by the responses i've found by your community, I might give it a miss. I don't like the idea of the sticks being so close together and flimsy buttons.

Also, just out of interest, what's a roughly estimated idea of how much wood and materials would cost if I went with something like this guys measurements. "http://www.pioproductions.com/cpu.htm"

Finally speakers. What sort of speakers can I use? They don't have to be anything special... something pretty cheap. I may just stick some PC Speakers in there. If I want better sound I'll just plug in my stereo system.

So enough yapping about newbie questions, I'd love to see your cabinets. Please link me to your respective sites so I can have a nosy at your machines

Thanks in advance.

[Isometric Bacon]

Hmm. The AMD 400 seems well.. crap in MAME

It even runs old games like "Rastan" pathetically slow. I guess this calls for an upgrade. I'll use the AMD for now, but in future I want to upgrade so it can play most games. (E.g. Street Fighter series, Mortal Kombat and other graphically intensive games.)

How much would it cost (the cheapest way) to upgrade to a processor that will essentially play most of these games? would say, a 1.2 ghz do? The Riva TNT is also very old. Should I fork out on another video card?

Thanks for the advice in advance

[paigeoliver]

Drop back about 15 Mame versions and watch that processor do much much better. (Use something like mame .56 or .57).

[Isometric Bacon]

Thanks for the help man!
I tried downgrading to .56, but unfortunately it didn't seem to make a whole lot of difference. I'm starting to think the PC is just too clogged up with crap.

I'll do a format on it soon, and see what happens. Does anyone know of any programs that can make it exclusively stripped down? (e.g. i'm only going to use it for Arcade games/MP3's... so explorer + all that other crap can be gotten rid off? (still needs network functionability though)

Thanks

[paigeoliver]

The difference between a fresh windows install + drivers and a totally stripped one is minimal. You probably wouldn't see any actual performance gain. But definitely at least format.

Also, (I know this sounds dumb), but try pulling out some RAM. My old K6 series computer emulated about 20 percent faster with 128 MB of ram than it did with 256 MB of ram.

[Isometric Bacon]

Interesting.
My AMD is a K6 also, I'll have to try removing some ram and see what happens. It's so bogged down with 4 years worth of crap, that I think a format is neccessary anyway.

 Thanks again for the advice.

Anyone able to answer some of my other questions? I don't want to sound demanding or anything, it's just that I wanted to get this started as soon as possible, so I can order the controls and get started during the holiday period.

I appreciate all this help and advice though, it's a great source  of info, your FAQ particularily has given me some great advice.

I've decided against the keyboard hack (after reading other threads) and I'll probably either go for a IPAC or the sidewinder hack. I already have one Sidewinder Gamepad here, I just need another one. Any one have an idea where they are available cheaply in Australia?

I think i might just go for an IPAC. They're $90 at OZstick, so it might be cheaper to import from the US. What is their official website?

Thanks again

[Apollo]

The guys at Ozstick are great and excellent to deal with. I would suggest using their 8 way sticks and buttons. They can also supply you with an IPAC. I suggest you get a dedicated 4 way stick from Happs controls and putting it somewhere on your control panel with a couple of buttons. That is probably the best way to get the most out of games like Donkey Kong, Galaga etc.
You can probably find parts on ebay Australia as well.
Good luck and have fun. Consider a spinner and trackball as well but unless you play a lot of games using these IMHO they are not necessary.

[Bluntman]

well, also being an aussie setting out on the path of building my own cab, I've put in a fair amount of time and effort into reasearch...

I've heard (well, "read" but you get the point) nothing but good things about ozstick, not one bad word.
I have no idea as to weather their claim that their 8-ways "work well" in 4-way games, but the kinda games I'm really ingto, thta's not a big issue for me, if it becomes an issue, I'll build a restrictor plate.
also, I'm defidently going for the more pricey pb01 buttons for my main "gameplay" buttons, I'll probably get some cheaper ones for my "esc" "tab" and a couple of other administration type buttons.
and I'll DEFIDENTLY be going with an ipac, SO much less bother.
as for a $$ estimate, well, my cab is gonna be big (61cm tv - four player CP) and with wood, and joys/buttons etc I'm figuring about AU$300 - $400 for it depending on some options I've yet to decide on, the wood will be about $80-$150 of that. again, depending.

for speakers, head on down to harvey norman, they've got a nice pair of altec lansing's for about $60, small and very nice sounding, or (as I'm thinking about) get a creative labs 2.1 set (with sub) it'll run you about $100.

the PC seems okay (I suggest you reformat), from what I've read it'll play most games (except the new crowd `92 onwards?) at full speed.
Me personally, I'd see it as a good excuse to upgrade (love new toys)
I'd keep the TNT2 (if it has TV-out) that's what I'm using, and it works great.

also, keep an eye put in the "coin op" section of ebay.com.au - there's a guy there who at the moment is selling alot of arcade parts. he, in his own words, "have a warehouse full of this stuff", most of it is crappy rubbish that probbably should be thrown out, but I did manage to score four nice coin doors, three (AUSSIE MADE) arcade 8way joys, and a classic Atari steering wheel (probably won't go on the cab, but I paid $5 and it's a nice pice of nostalga from my childhood) - his "ebay name" is "Markc" IIRC.

[NiN^_^NiN]

I was using my intel 266 and it played allmost all games at full speed but this was onlny in dos windows is to much of an overhead even with lots of ram it makes it slow cause of the cpu power it needs

but i have mame .57 in dos and use the Gamelauncher frontend and i can play all games well but metalslug plays ALMOST full speed on my 266 so a 450 should do well

but i only have 128mb of ram so try taking the 256mb of ram out


most old pcs put the data in the ram all over not close to eachother so it takes longer if u ever tryed to put ALOT of ram in a old pc u see its way slower caues it places the data all over the ram not just in a section

[joeblade]

Hey bluntman, thanks for the tip of ebay.com.au.

I must admit I haven't been on there for about a year or so, and it has changed heaps. A lot more categories, making it a lot easier to find what you are after.

I previously hadn't been looking for arcade bits, more retro computers for my collection, but yeh, it looks like its very much worthwhile keeping an eye on the coin op stuff on there.

And yeah, markc (his user name is "mark.c." by the looks of things) is flogging off all sorts of bits and bobs on there.

Cheers mate.

A fellow aussie ....

[Isometric Bacon]

Ebay's down at the moment, but I noticed some joysticks on there. Big thanks for the advice though.

I'm going to try chucking out some RAM and playing the DOS version of Mame... see where it gets me. Anyone know of a DOS Frontend/GUI Mame system so I don't have to actually type in DOS's command line interface to play games? Because once the cabinet is on, I won't have this liberty of being able to actually type in anything.

Anyone know where I can get a 4-way stick? (or a switchable 8-way 4-way) in Australia? Ozstick seems like a great place, but they don't sell any 4 way's whatsoever. Maybe i'll just invest in their 8 ways and see how well they work, and if not i'll purchase a 4 way sometime down the track.

I've never played any arcade games with a Trackball and a spinner, so I think i'll give it a miss, mainly due to costs. In future however, I might make another CP and stick some other things in there.

[RetroBorg]

G'day Isometric Bacon,

It's good to see another Aussie making another cab.

I bought an I-Pac4 and am completly happy with it, I contemplated hacking a keyboard but I am glad I didn't.

As far as joysticks are concerned I intend to purchase one of those E-Sticks that you can change from 4-way to 8-way from Ultimarc.

While I've never bought anything from OzStick I have had some correspondence with them through E-Mail and they have been nothing but helpful to me. I would have no hesitation in purchasing anything of them.

I currently have converted a 4 player Gottlieb control pod from one of those showcase cabinets it has MCA sticks that are used on most Australian cabinets they're pretty good but look ugly as hell, they have an adapter on the back which allows you to convert them from 8-way square to 4-way and also 2-way left to right but you have to undo 2 screws to do it.  My control panel only came with 2 joysticks so I bought 2 from a local dealer just $18 AUD each, the pod cost me $50 AUD on Ebay.

What state are you in Isometric Bacon, I am in South Australia, any one else here from SA? Let us know.

Anyway good luck with your project.

[Isometric Bacon]

G'day Retro, I live in South Australia too, Adelaide to be exact. Whereabouts do you hail from?

Looks like i'll be going for the IPAC 2 from Ozstick. Which local dealer did you buy sticks from? I've been meaning to have a look at that place on South Road, but they're closed today and I wanted to order it today

I've started writing up my proper plan, seeing how much everything will cost etc. The good thing is my parents have agreed to put a couple of hundred towards it, due to it being a school project and all.

I found on "www.zophar.net" a version of MAME that is created specifically for K6 processors. I haven't tried it out, but i'll be sure to give it a shot soon. Hopefully that will speed things up a little.

[Happy_Dude]

I found on "www.zophar.net" a version of MAME that is created specifically for K6 processors. I haven't tried it out, but i'll be sure to give it a shot soon. Hopefully that will speed things up a little.

Could you provide a link to that K6 mame ?
I was only thinking of building a 2 player joystick, but I have a spare K6 300
in my garage that doesn't get used, so now I'm thinking "Full blown cab"  

I'm also in Australia. Sydeny though.  

[RetroBorg]

Iso,

Good to see someone else from Adelaide, I live in Greenwith.

I buy my spare parts from:

Southern Star Electronics.
Unit 4/93 Research Road
POORAKA SA
08-8359 5600

Make sure if you do go there to go early in the morning because the place is always closed in the afternoon from my experience.

That place on South Road is Dickeson's Amusements I don't know what they charge for parts and stuff but they charge the earth for second hand arcade machines.

There is also a place on Magill Road called Amusement Worx.
This is ther web address http://www.amusementworx.com.au
Looks like they sell trackballs and happs parts.

I've been thinking about purchasing one of these 21" monitors from Bumper Action Amusements in Melbourne they're $240 each. http://www.bumper.com.au/start.htm

I wish I could claim this was a school project so my folks would chuck a couple hundred bucks my way but being 35 years old I don't think they'll fool for that one.

Anyway good luck with your project and make sure you document your progress on the thread.

[AlanS17]

The difference between a fresh windows install + drivers and a totally stripped one is minimal. You probably wouldn't see any actual performance gain. But definitely at least format.

Also, (I know this sounds dumb), but try pulling out some RAM. My old K6 series computer emulated about 20 percent faster with 128 MB of ram than it did with 256 MB of ram.

Same thing happenned to me. Did better with 128MB than with 256MB.

[Isometric Bacon]

I found on "www.zophar.net" a version of MAME that is created specifically for K6 processors. I haven't tried it out, but i'll be sure to give it a shot soon. Hopefully that will speed things up a little.

Could you provide a link to that K6 mame ?
I was only thinking of building a 2 player joystick, but I have a spare K6 300
in my garage that doesn't get used, so now I'm thinking "Full blown cab"  

Awesome

You can find the link here, http://www.zophar.net/mame.html just scroll down a bit. It's called "MameK6"

I haven't tried it out myself yet, but I plan to later tonight, when I chuck out that Ram. I'll let you know how it goes. I think it's based on a earlier beta version, so it might not support as many games.

and Retro - Cheers for those links. I didn't actually know of any other Arcade retailers in Adelaide. I'll ring up Worx,  and Southern Star tomorrow and see their prices on arcade parts to compare them. If they work out any cheaper than Ozstick, I may as well go straight to them.

Just out of interest, where did you get your IPAC? I assume the local retailers don't supply it?

[RetroBorg]

Just out of interest, where did you get your IPAC? I assume the local retailers don't supply it?

I bought my IPAC from Ultimarc, from memory it worked out a little cheaper to get it from them than OzStick, I feel a little scabby now and wished I had bought it from OzStick because they have always replied to my E-Mails quickly recomended other places and basically been really helpful, not that Andy from Ultimarc hasn't but I guess he gets the sale if I buy it of him or OzStick anyway. I just think it's a good idea to support the Aussie traders because we don't have too many of them.

[Isometric Bacon]

Okay. We bought a new car today (woo!) and whilst we were there we decided to check out the arcade prices at a few local distributors

After visiting Southern Star Electronics, (who told us $2 buttons on the phone, but $4 in person     and looking at the quality of what they sell as opposed to OZstick, i've decided to go with Ozstick, and I sent my order tonight.

I'm getting 16 PB04 buttons (12 for playing, 4 for spare use... pause enter etc.), 2 PB01's with the player legends, 2 light up pb02's for the coin buttons plus 2 Bat handled joysticks and a IPAC.

It all came out to $208 including shipping. Not too bad methinks.

Btw, that was a pretty freaky coincidence meeting you there Retroborg. You go there often? It's a small world isn't it? heh.

[RetroBorg]

Freaked me out too, Iso. I had to pick up some lino down the road so I called by to check if that guy had any decent arcade monitors for sale. When your Dad mentioned you were building a cab for a school project, I knew it had to be you.

Sounds like with your purchases your well on the way to building that cabinet.

Good Luck.

[stuzza]

Hi Isometric Bacon,

I also live in Adelaide (Modbury North) and as you have just done, bought all my joysticks and buttons from Ozstick.  I found them to be friendly and helpful and the quality of both the buttons and sticks very good.  I bought the ball top sticks and find they work no worries with 4 way type games such as pacman.

I also bought my first and second cabinets ("low boys" - popular in Aus) from Southern Star Electronics and found the two guys down there to be quite friendly and reasonably priced.  An old "Low Boy" cab cost me $100 delivered and included 2 joysticks and buttons (although I didn't use these).  You can see some early pics of my cab here: http://users.chariot.net.au/~sturrock/mame/  (note that since thes pics were taken I have changed the buttons colours and added extra pinball buttons on the sides plus extra buttons for Esc and Enter to make life in windows easier!)  

Anyway, good luck on the project and be sure to post pics when you're done!