A rather odd solution to my control set up? Feedback & advice please!

[slapaham]

Okay, this isn't strictly PC-related but it would apply in exactly the same way so I thought this would be the best place to post.

Basically, I'm building an arcade cab with an Xbox (as mentioned in a couple of past posts!). I'm using an adaptor that maps keyboard presses to joypad buttons on the Xbox and I'm using a keyboard hack linked to this. This is PS/2. Now, 2 sets of player's controls are linked to one keyboard encoder but I can only plug it into one control port on my Xbox (as it obviously only uses one PS/2). This means that only one player can use these controls (hope you're following!). Basically, what I want to do is have it so I can plug the same keyboard encoder into 2 control ports (without any soldering, hacking, etc)...

How would I do this? Well, I have put some serious thought into it and come up with 2 suggestions...

1. A PS/2 splitter - 1xfemale to 2xmale - problem being I cannot find one anyway - not surprising - but does anyone know where I could get one? I've looked high and low for one. This would be the best option really. Really be grateful if someone knows where I could get one from! But bare in mind I'm in the UK.

OR

2. PS/2 to USB adaptor > USB Hub (the wrong way round - I take it this wouldn't matter as USB is 2way?) > USB to PS/2 adaptor (2 of these)

So, effectively -



TO



TO



TO



TO X2

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-8M-HI-SPEED-USB-2-0-CABLE-LEAD-A-MALE-TO-A-MALE-BLACK_W0QQitemZ400025085538QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_USB_Cables?hash=item400025085538&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

BACK TO X2



AND INTO XBOX KEYBOARD APAPTOR 1 IN CONTROL PORT 1 AND XBOX KEYBOARD ADAPTOR 2 IN CONTROL PORT 2 OF THE XBOX!


Would either of these work? Or have I just lost the plot!!

In theory, the second option should work - the first option would as well but that lead surely doesn't exist!? Opinions please... Really need to know before I start buying adaptors and cables I might not need!

This would be a nuts cable layout, mind!

[slapaham]

Had to modify this post a few times to get it spot on, its that daft - but is it daft enough that it might work? I don't know what effect each adaptor has on the signal - surely none?

[slapaham]

I guess my main concern is that the USB hub wouldn't work what is effectively the 'wrong' way round. But surely USB is a 2 way connection so it wouldn't make a bit of difference

Oh well, I'm going to pick up the bits and give it a go... wish me luck!

[severdhed]

good luck...i have my doubts that this will work, but i guess it is worth a shot.    it has been my experence that when you start chaining multiple adapters together, you get unreliable performance

[slapaham]

I have my doubts too but for £7 it's worth a try - if it doesn't work I have a load of leads that may come in useful in the future - I'm always messing around with cables anyway! My biggest doubts lie with the USB hub... if it doesn't work, it may also be worth giving an externally powered USB hub a try instead...

[MonMotha]

USB is very much a one-way system.  It can move data either way, but it's entirely host/device (master/slave oriented).  A USB hub will not work "backwards".  There should never be any need for USB gender changers unless somebody is using the wrong plug to begin with.

Those USB to PS/2 adapters are usually passive.  They work on many devices because there's a de-facto standard for dual mode devices and their pinouts.  The device actually natively speaks either USB or PS/2.  The device must support this with those passive adapters.  You cannot plug a pure USB device into most of those adapters and expect it to work.  There are likely real "translators" available, but it's going to cost more than a couple bucks.

PS/2 splitters are almost universally made for laptops with dual-mode ports.  You likely don't have one of those, so it won't work.  Operation is usually flaky even on properly equipped laptops.

After reading what you're attempting several times, I'm still not sure exactly what you're going for, but I can basically guarantee you it won't work.  USB just doesn't work like this.

Oh, and for the love of all that is holy, please modify the giant links so that the URL is hidden and won't break the page layout.  This is horizontal scroll mania.

[CathalDublin]

Ive doubts of this working but I'd try these before changing to usb to change back again

http://sewelldirect.com/PS2Splitter.asp

http://www.datapro.net/products/ps2-splicer-coupler-md06ff.html

http://www.datapro.net/products/ibm-pc-keyboard-cable-kb5-m-m.html

[slapaham]

Haha cynos - you have totally read my mind, that's where my train of thought led me too! I'm now buying more leads as this solution is far simpler! MonMotha - I agree, if the original plan worked then I would be very surprised - however, I have learnt a lot from your post that will serve me well in future!

Thanks everyone!

[severdhed]

you'd probably be much better off buying an ipac and the xbox adapter...or an x-arcade and xbox adapter

[MonMotha]

Splitting PS/2 like you're talking may or may not work, as well.  The protocol does have the keyboard generate the clock and data when direction flows from the keyboard to the PC, so that's OK.  Both ports would just see a keyboard hooked up that happens to send identical (and identically timed) data, assuming it can drive both inputs (which it likely can).

However, when the link is placed into reverse (e.g. to set the key lock lights), the host PC side generates the clock and takes over the data line.  The system is open collector, so this doesn't present an electrical conflict, but if both sides try to do it at the same time, it certainly won't work.  A more interesting effect is that the other host port will see the LED change (or whatever) message as though it was sent from the keyboard.  This could be misinterpreted as a keypress or similar.

[slapaham]

Thanks for all the advice. Well, I opted for all the leads so I can try the first (and rather stupid) suggestion and also the more realistic ps/2 splitting approach (which I have my fingers crossed on! I'll report back either way when the leads arrive!

[slapaham]

If anyone was interested the first solution didn't work - as expected!

Interestingly, the LED lights on the keyboard lit up so power was provided to it via the setup but no signals could be sent...

Now I'm just awaiting the majority of the cables for the second solution to give that a try - I have much more faith that this may work... I'll report back either way once I've tried!

[Turnarcades]

I've been in the situation where a solution sounds viable yet no dedicated cable exists and have used daisy-chaining to accomplish many home projects, but due to the nature of devices you are hoping to link it was always going to encounter some kind of 'language' barrier between the devices. These days we take for granted the USB connection as a universal socket that accepts anything but there still has to be code transfers somewhere in the link and that's where the system will falter.

It is annoying when you come up with an idea that in terms of sockets and plugs will work, yet you find out the reason such a cable/device doesn't exist is due to software/firmware type issues.

[slapaham]

I agree with taking USB for granted - I have come up against so many problems with USB in recent times that if I can avoid I tend to!

I think that the PS/2 solution has a reasonably good chance of working - I think that it is reasonably simple and no overly complicated. It also doesn't mix signals and different types of cables... fingers crossed - if I can get this all to work I will be one happy chap! I'm trying to prove to myself that an Xbox cab is easier than most people may think to build and that it can be done on a reasonable budget...

Having said that, as its the first time I've attempted it I've ended up with a load of stuff I don't need! Cables, Xboxes, etc... oh well, I know I'll probably end up using them usefully in the end!!

[AndyWarne]

The USB solution definitely wont work.

The PS/2 solution stands a small chance of working. The host grabs the PS/2 interface quite often in normal use, for example when requesting a resend, or setting keyboard LEDs. It might be that the adaptors dont support the LEDs nor the resend command, so it might work. But its possible that you might get hanging if either of the adaptors does issue a request to the port, because the request will be mis-interpreted by the other adaptor as being a request from the keyboard to send data.
At power-on both adaptors might try to send a reset command to the keyboard at the same time, along with possibly other commands, which might cause a problem as well.


Andy

[TPB]

you'd probably be much better off buying an ipac and the xbox adapter...or an x-arcade and xbox adapter

Agreed.

X-arcade have their X-box adaptor for only $19.95.  It hooks the CP up to 2 gamepad ports on the X-box :

[slapaham]

Thanks TPB but I've already got one!

Don't get me wrong, I love the X-Arcade but I really don't want to build a cab either around or from it! My X-Arcade is right at home on table in front of the television and thats how I like it!

The adaptor still hasn't arrived - the guy I bought it from sent me the wrong one and I had to send it back for a replacement!

Thats one of 5 things I have received in the past week which were wrong - ALL FROM DIFFERENT PEOPLE!