Author Topic: Entirely Mechanical Pinball machine/game (Read 13717 times)

JonnyBoy · « **on:** January 14, 2009, 05:14:21 pm »

Sorry for the crosspost. I wasn't sure if the pinball forum would be entirely suited for my question because I am not restoring an actual pin.

I haven't been around in a few years, school has been getting the best of me. My arcade machine helped me get into the Industrial Design program at UC. We've been assigned a new project, in particular a mechanical toy.

I was considering making an entirely mechanical pinball machine. I have access to the following.

Large format plotters
CNC Machines
Lazer Cutters
Powder Printers
An entire shop full of woodworking and metalworking tools.

I've never really been a pinball guy, but I've always wanted to restore one just for the fun of it. But for the time being, this project will keep me busy. The unit would be a tabletop unit, nice and small. I can't use any electronics, that's outside of the scope of this project.

My question to you pinball fans is, what kind of features can be implemented that are strictly mechanical? I was thinking of having a hybrid pinball/labyrinth game with a tilt-able table or something. This is kind of like a brainstorming thread.

Mods, if this is in the wrong place, feel free to move it where it belongs.

I appreciate your time guys.

Also, it doesn't have to necessarily be a pin, just a mechanical game of sorts. Pinball is kind of my launching point.

Cakemeister · « **Reply #1 on:** January 14, 2009, 05:43:03 pm »

Maybe a pachinko machine would be more appropriate to your project.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #2 on:** January 14, 2009, 05:57:05 pm »

I was thinking of a pachinko machine. I'm open to any kind of suggestions. I was thinking of a vertically oriented "maze" that you have to move around the ball, using a turn crank.

SavannahLion · « **Reply #3 on:** January 14, 2009, 06:10:12 pm »

Quote from: JonnyBoy on January 14, 2009, 05:57:05 pm

I was thinking of a pachinko machine. I'm open to any kind of suggestions. I was thinking of a vertically oriented "maze" that you have to move around the ball, using a turn crank.

At one of the malls, they have this indoor playground. One of my sons favorite contraptions is this vertically mounted wheel (about 18" in diameter) that has this sort of pseudo-maze (he's 16 months, so the maze is a single wiggly 'Y' shaped path). Inside is a couple of colored marble-like balls. The entire thing is covered by a sheet of plexi and trimmed accordingly. Then the whole thing rotates on an axis. Basically, you spin this big wheel to get the balls to travel the maze.

If you think about it, this can get complex. You can have "dead zones", pits, branching paths. With multiple layers of plexi, you can double or even a triple layer maze. You can attach mechanical "logic" such as one way trap doors where the wheel needs to be in a certain position and the ball on a certain side before the ball can pass.

With a little imagination, you could even make it "coin" operated where the user could drop in a quarter and it's the quarter that needs to travel the maze. There are trapped quarters that can be released for a "prize" and so on.

I don't know. I think it's a cool little toy that can keep a 16 month old occupied for about an thirty minutes so I figure an adult version might accomplish the same.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #4 on:** January 14, 2009, 07:03:09 pm »

I think I saw something like that at IKEA once. I think it could be pretty cool, considering I do have access to both lazer cutters for plexi and CNC machines. I could make the toolpaths and have the maze get milled into the wood. I can also make it so that you can switch out various mazes with ease, have an easier one for the kids and a more difficult one for the adults.

Keep the ideas rolling, I like where this is going.

Thanks

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #5 on:** January 14, 2009, 07:53:52 pm »

How detailed do they want the "mechanical" part of this project?

You could build an entirely manual version of Taito's Ice Cold Beer fairly easily, with the tools you have access to.
Instead of using the joysticks to raise/lower the sides of the rod, you would just use handles.
I don't know if that would qualify as a mechanical toy though, since there aren't any real mechanical features.

I've thought about building a golf-themed version of that where you have to get the ball to hole 1, then 2, etc... with a ball counter across the top, to count the number of balls you drain to make it through the nine holes.

If I were doing the project I'd probably head down the Chexx hockey path.

If you did do a pinball-based project, Flipper Football would probably be a good pin to base it on.
You could put multiple buttons up the sides of the machine to run various flippers to advance the ball to an enemy goal protected by gravity based knockdowns.

Another off-shoot of that would be a battle flipper type game.
You could have you and an opponent trying to shoot various targets at the peak, or just have a five ball battle to see who drains the least balls on their side, with appropriate obstacles to work past.

And lastly, at least for the moment, would be a pound and shoot basketball game.
The kind where there are holes in the playing field, and the ball stops on them until you pound a lever to send it skyward toward the opposing basket.
Ping-pong balls would work good for that one.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2009, 10:29:48 pm »

These are great suggestions. I wasn't aware of most of these games.

I don't have a lot of time to build this (think around 3 weeks or so), so the scale of these is going to be fairly small. But these definitely give me a direction. I am not planning on copying these verbatim, I want to something fairly original but with a classic feel. These mechanisms are good inspiration though.

Thanks guys and keep em coming.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 15, 2009, 01:42:09 am »

You could remake an Electromechanical shooting gallery type of game.
Research any EM game, and you can see what amazing things that they had
come up with. Blacklights w/ florescent artworks, bells/buzzers, holograms (2way mirrors) /projections, score reels, force feedback (gun kick), and more.

Some were simulated... which used a pcb with a sliding contact attached to the
gun. If the gun was over a trace with the trigger pulled.. at the time the target
was operational.. it would complete the circuit and register.

You could also make a physical version, which uses actual projectiles. Ive seen
some use nylon balls via air powered blasts.

There are tons of amazing EM games. And there were tons of great
EM only pinball machines. Such a beast wouldnt be an easy thing to make
in a short time period however... imop.

EM games can be insanely complex as far as custom parts and electrical wiring goes.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #8 on:** January 15, 2009, 01:53:25 am »

Yeah, I can't use any electricity whatsoever unfortunately. I'm restricted to the old days.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 15, 2009, 10:04:30 pm »

Opps. My Bad. >.< Sorry, saw mechanical, and assumed electromechanical.
Havnt been getting enough sleep lately heh

ItchyD · « **Reply #10 on:** January 15, 2009, 10:50:53 pm »

I would love to see an update to the Labyrinth game. The original wooden ones were very beautiful to me, but not very fun to play.

How about this: Labyrinth + levels.

I had a really tough time with the original game because there were so freaking many holes, so on the first level no holes! Just a little maze, and the final position of the ball is a little ramp. Now the idea: to play level 2 you lay a big plate over level 1. It would have to be slightly smaller than the original plate so it didn't collide with the walls of the box when you tilted it. A few strategically placed holes on the back of the level 2 plate could be placed onto some pegs on the level 1 plate. The ramp where the ball ended up on level 1 is now flush with the surface of the plate on level 2 and you start from there. Level 2 of course has some oubliettes (holes) so your ball can fall back to level 1, and if it does you gotta start from there. So you finish level 2 and start level 3 and so on, as many plates as you can stand to make (probably 2 or 3 lol). Some other ideas I had were obstacles that weren't holes like half pipe sections, knurled floors, curvy walls, way bigger knobs so you can make finer adjustments, a hidey hole in the bottom of the box for the extra levels, chamfered pockets for the ball to almost get stuck in, deep / shallow oubliettes (depending on if the hole lines up with a hole in the lower plate.

You know what would be a pretty mind bending obstacle? A weak magnet stuck either under a section or in one of the little walls

nox771 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 16, 2009, 01:33:16 am »

Just do a youtube search for "marble machines". Usually people use some kind of motor, but you could replace it with a hand crank. Things like these:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26EE3jG5thM[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z2A6qJyURY[/youtube]

My favorite bit on the first one is the marble elevator, the way the bottom part works is very clever.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #12 on:** January 16, 2009, 12:12:29 pm »

Hah, good ideas guys. Let em flow.

Those marble machines really got me thinking though. I felt pretty calm just even watching those videos, maybe a marble machine would be a good thing for a stressed student to have around.

I might come up with a bit more simplistic marble machine, I'll keep you guys updated. I have to gather 20 concepts for tuesday.

ItchyD · « **Reply #13 on:** January 16, 2009, 10:35:56 pm »

here's a neat one

MinerAl · « **Reply #14 on:** January 16, 2009, 11:35:52 pm »

Skee-ball
Skittles
Bowling

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #15 on:** January 18, 2009, 11:48:14 pm »

shameless bump.

ItchyD · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2009, 10:07:14 am »

early pinball patent

ItchyD · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2009, 06:36:48 pm »

So what ever happened with this project??

RayB · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2009, 12:09:24 pm »

Also look up "Ice Cold Beer". That could be done using 2 hand cranks

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2009, 03:22:57 pm »

Hey guys, sorry I let the thread fall. A lot of work here at school. Here's a fast render of what it's shaping up to be. The gear that's empty in the middle has the maze in it. The planetary gear cycles the ball from the bottom of the maze back up to the top. I'll have a better render soonish.

Thanks guys.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #20 on:** January 29, 2009, 05:44:52 pm »

Here's a quick render of the maze.

SavannahLion · « **Reply #21 on:** January 29, 2009, 06:32:28 pm »

Holy crap! Is that my idea?

OK, I want royalties. 3% for the first year and 1% thereafter on gross sales. International sales can be negotiated.

That inner gear is a good idea. I see how you can swap gears out for different mazes. But wouldn't it make the total usable area compared to the actual handling area kind of on the small size? The initial rendering seems to make the maze about 1/6th the size of the total game. Are you intending to have it be a kind of stationary "screen" the player views?

How does the ball return mechanism work? If you miss the track, wouldn't the ball get caught up in the gear teeth?

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #22 on:** January 29, 2009, 09:53:46 pm »

Hahahaha.

The new version has a bigger maze gear. The reason that the drive gears are so big is because I want the gear ratio to be 2:1, so two turns of the crank make for one turn of the big wheel. There is going to be a hopper that will hold the ball, and has a hole in it. When the hole lines up with the hole in the plexiglass, the ball will drop into the maze (hopefully). It's all kind of theoretical and stuff. This is a bit more properly scaled model, the maze is going to be 10 inches round, and the entire inches round. It'll be pretty cool once it gets built, should be done around the middle of next week. I'll upload some pictures. It's not going to be painted though, unfortunately. I just don't have time.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #23 on:** January 29, 2009, 09:54:43 pm »

Dope, forgot the new render.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #24 on:** January 29, 2009, 09:55:20 pm »

Bah, got some artifacts on that render. Well, you get the idea.

ItchyD · « **Reply #25 on:** January 29, 2009, 10:32:09 pm »

you could make the planetary gear something like this

The slanted teeth drop the ball onto the outside track and the catch drops it at the right moment so it's aligned with the maze.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2009, 12:45:24 am »

Good suggestion. That'd work awesome. The only problem being...I can't get that laser cut. My project must be laser cut in order to get it done in time.

ItchyD · « **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2009, 06:52:24 am »

you could cut 2 plates, the back one with the teeth, and the front one with the track and catch, then lay them atop each other to make the planetary gear. You wouldn't need to slant the teeth if they were thinner than half the width of the ball, it would fall down onto the track. You would need to chop a tooth out of the maze for the catch / ball to pass. I'm making a big assumption here that you have choice of plate thickness haha I do love this thing though!!

Also maybe I'm not thinking clearly but what do you need the second small gear for? Wouldn't it be ok to have the maze and planetary gear going different directions? Plus you could make the maze way bigger...

SavannahLion · « **Reply #28 on:** January 30, 2009, 09:08:53 am »

I still don't get how that little track is going to catch the ball and drop it into the maze. In fact, now that I look at it, wouldn't that track segment interfere with the outer gear from turning a full 360 degrees?

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #29 on:** January 30, 2009, 10:05:05 am »

There are missing parts from the rendering you saw. The little track on the planetary gear is going to be crammed full of ball bearings on both the top and under the bracket, meaning the inside segment of that planetary gear will be "floating". I've prototyped it and it seems to work well. It should be lasercut by the end of the day, so I'll get some photos. No worries. The second small gear is in place in order to keep the direction of the maze the same as the direction you crank. Also, it kind of makes it look more like a watch, which is kind of fun.

Here's a picture of me playing with some foamcore gears and looking goofy.

ItchyD · « **Reply #30 on:** January 30, 2009, 11:28:05 am »

If the ball is traveling along here how are you going to get it into the question block space?

It doesn't seem possible.

At the very beginning I'd toss out the first wall to the right and maybe one or two more so you can get access to the whole maze.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #31 on:** January 30, 2009, 11:30:51 am »

I'll adjust as needed after this prototype, no way to know until it's assembled in front of me and I play with it. Due date was pushed back.

ItchyD · « **Reply #32 on:** January 30, 2009, 11:32:30 am »

Dude I'm not naysaying this project it's freaking awesome, I only wish I could do something as cool!!

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #33 on:** January 30, 2009, 11:44:33 am »

hahaha, I'm just touchy because the guy operating the lazercutter dropped me back in the queue because he doesn't understand how to unzip a folder full of toolpath files. grrr

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #34 on:** January 30, 2009, 03:44:06 pm »

Well, turns out my maze file got kicked back from the lazercutter due to too much geometry (that's what I get for being lazy and livetracing). So I am rebuilding it from the original file, and will correct and impossibilities I find.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #35 on:** February 02, 2009, 01:01:26 am »

Okay guys. I just got my piece back from the laser cutter. Everything fits fine, but I'm having a problem with the internal gear. The weight of the mdf is causing it to catch, and packing it with ball bearings is not working as well as I initially hoped. It's almost as though it needs some sort of track to work flawlessly. I was looking at lazy susan bearings, but they are approaching 45 dollars for the one I'd need, so I was thinking of making something myself. Anybody have any ideas on how I can get this thing to rotate nicely when it's oriented vertically? Horizontally it works like a dream but vertically I'm having some trouble. One friend suggested routing a slot in both the inside of the internal gear and the ring around it, drilling a hole in the side, stuffing the entire thing with ball bearings and then closing it back up again.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #36 on:** February 03, 2009, 12:28:01 am »

stan2323 · « **Reply #37 on:** February 03, 2009, 02:49:22 pm »

Quote from: JonnyBoy on February 02, 2009, 01:01:26 am

Okay guys. I just got my piece back from the laser cutter. Everything fits fine, but I'm having a problem with the internal gear. The weight of the mdf is causing it to catch, and packing it with ball bearings is not working as well as I initially hoped. It's almost as though it needs some sort of track to work flawlessly. I was looking at lazy susan bearings, but they are approaching 45 dollars for the one I'd need, so I was thinking of making something myself. Anybody have any ideas on how I can get this thing to rotate nicely when it's oriented vertically? Horizontally it works like a dream but vertically I'm having some trouble.

You may want to just have it at an angle. Find the angle it starts to not work smooth and go a little less that that. I think it would still work just a bit slower.

My other suggestion would be to make the hole in the center larger and press a sealed bearing into the center. Ideally the bearing would need to be the same thickness as the MDF. You would need two bearings one for the gear set and one for the back frame part.

CathalDublin · « **Reply #38 on:** February 03, 2009, 03:33:27 pm »

Wow look excellent
could you not sink a bearing like this into the front and back of it?

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #39 on:** February 04, 2009, 11:09:36 am »

Right now it's bordering on done. It was just a 2 or 3 week project for class, and I'm excited that I just managed to get it done. The planetary gear slides on some nylon washers, so it's smoothish but not ideal. If I were doing this project on a different scale, there would definitely be some adjustments that I would do, and someday I may make a revised one (with rollers and roller bearings, maybe even a gigantic lazy susan bearing, that'd be nice). When I get the time and money. I'm going to have some updated pictures and some promotional material for my crit.

Thanks for the kind words guys.


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