Happ Transluscent vs. Regular Pushbutton tacktile feel

[csa3d]

Hey all!

I am currently running Groovy Game Gear Electric Ice pushbuttons on my rig.  They work, diffuse light great, but after using them for a while the way the physical button feels to me is cheap.  They squeek when tapping repeatedly, sometimes get stuck, and are made of a much harder feeling materical then happ pushbuttons, making them feel "looser" and noisy.

I'm considering replacing them with Happ Translucent buttons like these:


I'd like to know if anyone has these buttons, if they contextually feel the same as the standard black happ pushbuttons, or if because of the clear plastic, they feel hard and clicky like I describe the GGG E-Ice buttons.

Thanks!
-csa

[Ginsu Victim]

They squeek when tapping repeatedly, sometimes get stuck, and are made of a much harder feeling materical then happ pushbuttons, making them feel "looser" and noisy.

Sounds like the same gripes I had about Ultimarc's Ultralux lighted pushbuttons:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=82468.0

I'm interested in an answer to your question. I'd love lighted pushbuttons that felt as nice as the standard Happ.

[csa3d]

From the thread referenced above:

... as kind of an observation on translucents I also found the Happ translucents to have a different feel than the regular ones. The plastic that is used on the translucent buttons is harder and more brittle than their standard buttons.

I don't object to the feel of them, but prefer standard buttons more. If I ever have LED issues with the translucent Happs, I won't be to worried about going back to standard Happ buttons.

Wonder if I should go with white standards and drilling them out for LED acceptance instead.. hmmmm

-csa

[Ginsu Victim]

I think I've read where people have tried that and the results weren't very good.

[Hoopz]

What about the GGG Novagems?  I have them and can't tell a difference between them and the standard Happs button.

[csa3d]

I can agree that's probably the case.  I do know that I tend to run my GGG E-Ice buttons at like half brightness.  In the dark, when playing games, they are too distracting turned all the way up.  I might not mind the extra light blocking if that's the only gripe.

-csa

[Bender]

What about the GGG Novagems?  I have them and can't tell a difference between them and the standard Happs button.

I pretty sure Nova gems ARE Happ buttons only pre-drilled for LED's
I got some from Randy without the LED part so I could put in my own
and that way I didn't have to drill them out

I can't tell the difference between the translucent and the opaque buttons either

[Ginsu Victim]

I pretty sure Nova gems ARE Happ buttons

Looking at both, the color selection is the exact same. You could be right.

[RandyT]

If you want, you can tweak the springs in the Electric ICE buttons.  Extending their length by 1/8 to 1/4" (or more if you prefer) will give them a firmer feel and the spring will tend to resonate less.  One of the reasons these, or any button deigned for microswitches has more noise than the arcade leaf originals is that these type of buttons have hollow chambers and bottom out on an internal stop to prevent someone from knocking the switch off the other side.  It doesn't matter what you do, or which buttons of this style you use, are always going to get that sharp 'click' when the two parts meet with any velocity.

If you are getting "squeaking", a shot of spray silicone on the plunger legs or inside the body will likely be a permanent solution.  Standard pushbuttons (the cheap ones) are made from nylon, which has certain self-lubricating properties.  For that, they are also softer and can be cosmetically damaged by someone with only a fingernail and some determination.  The EI buttons, as well as the HAPP/IL translucents, are made from polycarbonate.  These tend not to have this property to the same degree, but are MUCH more durable.  PC is softer than something like Acrylic, but not as soft as Nylon.  While the EI buttons have a slightly higher pitch click than the HAPP/IL translucents, they are virtually identical for noise levels and self-lubricity.

I have only seen an EI button plunger "stick" for one reason, and that is the lighting board being out of place in the bottom.  If it's not aligned correctly when installed, the leg of the plunger can catch on the PCB.  If they are sticking for any other reason, then the hole in the panel is probably way too tight and compressing the body of the button.  That's something that is also common to these type of buttons, so a little bit of extra clearance in button holes is usually a good thing.

As for lighting the white nylon buttons, the result was terrible IMHO.  EI buttons are expensive parts to have produced, compared to the standard nylon parts, so if it could be done reasonably well this way we would be offering it as an option. 

RandyT

[divemaster127]

I sell the happ trans buttons to me they feel the exact same as the happ solid concave
dm

[mr_doles]

I actually asked about lighting a standard Happ button:

now I already have all my buttons and they are not translucent, they are Happ Concave long buttons with cherry switches.  Has anyone lit these up with an LED before.

But then withdrew my question:

So after finding this link http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=74388.0 I will say nevermind to my previous question.

I would be interested in knowing if it is possible since I am not the only one to ask.

[RandyT]

I sell the happ trans buttons to me they feel the exact same as the happ solid concave

To me, all of them "feel" the same.  But the OP seemed to be concerned with the "rattle" of the plunger in the body of the button.  If you shake both the HAPP (made by Industrias Lorenzo) translucent and a normal HAPP/Suzo  "solid concave", you will note that the translucents "rattle" considerably more.

RandyT

[csa3d]

If you want, you can tweak the springs in the Electric ICE buttons.  Extending their length by 1/8 to 1/4" (or more if you prefer) will give them a firmer feel and the spring will tend to resonate less.

I actually did this on one of the buttons the other week.  I self admittedly pulled it a bit too far, and now it's WAY annoying to play.  That being said, the noise/looseness properties remain the same in my opinion, and only affects the force of the throw.  The button to me still feels a tad wobbly when compared to normal Happ buttons with the same microswitch setup.  Not sure I'd try this again on the other buttons I have.  Comparatively, I don't feel changing the spring is what my complaint is over.

If you are getting "squeaking", a shot of spray silicone on the plunger legs or inside the body will likely be a permanent solution.  Standard pushbuttons (the cheap ones) are made from nylon, which has certain self-lubricating properties.  For that, they are also softer and can be cosmetically damaged by someone with only a fingernail and some determination.  The EI buttons, as well as the HAPP/IL translucents, are made from polycarbonate.  These tend not to have this property to the same degree, but are MUCH more durable.  PC is softer than something like Acrylic, but not as soft as Nylon.  While the EI buttons have a slightly higher pitch click than the HAPP/IL translucents, they are virtually identical for noise levels and self-lubricity.

I will try this on the tight spring test button.  Maybe that'll solve everything.  There is a noticeable friction difference between the E-Ice and the Nylon buttons you described, and I'll agree to disagree on the lubrication feel of the E-Ice buttons out of the box vs. the Nylon buttons.  As a home user, I'm not worried about finger nails, claws, or anything like that on the buttons.  Durability is low on my list of concerns at the moment, but dually noted.

As for lighting the white nylon buttons, the result was terrible IMHO.  EI buttons are expensive parts to have produced, compared to the standard nylon parts, so if it could be done reasonably well this way we would be offering it as an option. 

Ok, I knew this would come down to a phrasing debate after typing the word "cheap" in my original post.  I feel like any comments I make about GGG products result in such phrasing debates, backed by a scientific breakdown over why I'm incorrect.  Maybe I should have said the buttons feel "wrong" or "non-authentic" or "not how I remember growing up".  I love the buttons for everything they do except how they feel when I press them.  I've dumped a ton of money into GGG products in the course of producing my control panel, so do disregard my phrase of *cheap* and hopefully this rephrasing makes everything better.

Thanks for your spray suggestion; I'll definitely give that a try and report back.

[RandyT]

The button to me still feels a tad wobbly when compared to normal Happ buttons with the same microswitch setup.  Not sure I'd try this again on the other buttons I have.  Comparatively, I don't feel changing the spring is what my complaint is over.

See my above comment about "rattle".  This is the property that's bothering you.  Unfortunately, the translucents aren't much better in this regard.  They are a little quieter, but not nearly quiet as the normal nylon buttons are.  The nylon parts are tighter because they can be due to to the self-lubricating properties of the material.

Maybe I should have said the buttons feel "wrong" or "non-authentic" or "not how I remember growing up". 

I know it might have gotten lost in the "novel" above, but unless you grew up playing fighters and/or other modern arcade games, the buttons you remember are probably leaf-switch based.  They are usually much firmer, but need only a short press, which is very different from the way the standard microswitch button works.  It's also worth noting that a major producer of microswitch based buttons went away a while back.  WICO had a very short button that was really only useful on metal panels or panels that had recessed bottoms, but it's "shortness" may have contributed to a more solid "feel".

While I'm at it, here's one more thing you can try to "tighten" things up a bit.  Take the plunger out of the button and spread the legs apart.  Don't pull so hard that it breaks (it probably won't anyway) but far enough so that when it's released the legs are at outward angles to one another.  You might have to hold it in that configuration for about 5 seconds, and a shot of spray silicone will be mandatory as you will be increasing the friction a little.  I think you'll find that 90% of the rattle will go away.  This method also works on the HAPP translucents / NovaGem Buttons.

RandyT

[RandyT]

I actually asked about lighting a standard Happ button:

.......

I would be interested in knowing if it is possible since I am not the only one to ask.

It's "possible" and may be sufficient if your game is in a dark area.  But you'll probably find that it works "ok" for some colors and not so well for others.  The button acts as a filter, so certain colors just won't make it through easily. The white button is not really "neutral", and you can see this by holding it up to the light.  What gets through is mostly "yellow", so reds and yellows will be transmitted to some extent, but blues and some greens will probably be tough to see.

RandyT

[Ginsu Victim]

This method also works on the HAPP translucents / NovaGem Buttons.

This is the response I was waiting for.

[RandyT]

This method also works on the HAPP translucents / NovaGem Buttons.

This is the response I was waiting for.

Wasn't it obvious?

The difference is in the "Nova" lighting assembly.  You would need to pack 5 regular superbrights into a HAPP translucent to get the same light intensity.

RandyT

[Ginsu Victim]

This method also works on the HAPP translucents / NovaGem Buttons.

This is the response I was waiting for.

Wasn't it obvious?

Well, yeah. I just wanted to hear it from you rather than having people speculate.

[Cornchip]

  Wish I had my camera handy. The GGG EI buttons will vibrate on a button smack. The spring is free to touch the inside wall of the plunger causing that buzzy twang sound. I settled with two pieces of fiber packing tape (what I had on hand other than electrical or masking tape) around both legs of the plunger at the mid point. This keeps the spring away from the surface of the plunger. This gave the button a more solid feel. Something to try.

 Cornchip

[csa3d]

  Wish I had my camera handy. The GGG EI buttons will vibrate on a button smack. The spring is free to touch the inside wall of the plunger causing that buzzy twang sound. I settled with two pieces of fiber packing tape (what I had on hand other than electrical or masking tape) around both legs of the plunger at the mid point. This keeps the spring away from the surface of the plunger. This gave the button a more solid feel. Something to try.

 Cornchip

Yeah, I can't wrap my head around what that exactly means.  If you get a chance, snapping a shot would be super groovy  !

-csa