HELP ! ground and unground outlet question.

[SNAAAKE]

Okay this is REALLY weird but my house doesnt have ANY grounded 3 pin outlet...what the heck !
Now I just broke the top pin of the surge protector and it works.
thats how I connected my computer and everything else BUT my cabinet has a 27" monitor,a computer,ps2,dreamcast,gamecube,marque,speakers and some other shiz.
so the question is,would it matter if I broke the top pin of the surge protector(cabinet's) ?
Got this new one yesterday and the manual says "DO NOT connect to ungrounded outlet"
Now I dont want to fry anything so wanted to make sure.
anyone have anything for me on this?  
Kinda worried...

[HeadRusch]

Snake, dont take this the wrong way but, you're insane to break the ground plug off...

Go to Home Depot and buy a 3pin to 2 pin converter...it has a little ground "dongle" you can can screw to the screw holding your faceplate on the plug.

The smart move would be to replace your 2 prong with 3 prong grounded outlets tho...

[rampy]

Snake, dont take this the wrong way but, you're insane to break the ground plug off...

Go to Home Depot and buy a 3pin to 2 pin converter...it has a little ground "dongle" you can can screw to the screw holding your faceplate on the plug.

The smart move would be to replace your 2 prong with 3 prong grounded outlets tho...

HeadRusch is right... it's usually a daft move to cut off the third grounding plug.

Now generally nothing bad (tm) will happen, but it IS there for safety's sake and by having a "lifted" ground you are asking for trouble.

Example: last weekend we were working on my buddies cab, which had the ground prong removed and whenever he'd hit the power switch on the cabinet he'd get bit with 120vac.  same thing happened when he touched some other ground in the cabinet ...   We bought a replacment receptacle and put it on and ran an extension cord to a "good" 3 prong outlet in the house and the shocking ceased =P

The correct way, as HS pointed out if you don't have grounded outlets is to use the little grey adapters and screw in the face plate screw thingie...  

but i'm not an electrician so YMMV and your house wiring could be screwy...

Rampy

[SNAAAKE]

yeah but this surge protector manual says "don't use converter either".

I get it from home depot right?
I actually have my computer and everything else running like that though..no problem so far.
any link to the adapter/converter ?
I could always search but didnt find any so far !
thanks HS and Rampy.

[1UP]

Snaaake, dude, EVERYTHING that comes with a 3-prong cord also comes with a warning that says NOT to plug it in an ungrounded outlet!  I'm no electrician, but I've got to imagine that using a 2-pring adapter is better than nothing.  Hopefully, at least the outlet box itself is connected to an earth ground somewhere.  Otherwise, you might want to call an electrician to put in at least one good outlet in your house...

[SNAAAKE]

Snaaake, dude, EVERYTHING that comes with a 3-prong cord also comes with a warning that says NOT to plug it in an ungrounded outlet!  I'm no electrician, but I've got to imagine that using a 2-pring adapter is better than nothing.  Hopefully, at least the outlet box itself is connected to an earth ground somewhere.  Otherwise, you might want to call an electrician to put in at least one good outlet in your house...

OH...
thanks...I am still not sure WHY we dont have any
will get that converter..guess its better then nothing.
will post result(if there is anything else regarding this)

[Sasquatch!]

I know a bit about electrical work, so here goes:

GOOD GOD DON'T BREAK OFF THE GROUNDING PIN.  As said before, get one of those adapters.

The instructions for your surge protector are technically correct - you're not REALLY supposed to even use those adapters, as you will likely still not have any grounding going to your surge protector.

I said LIKELY, because those adapters usually come with a little tab that you can screw into the faceplate of your outlet, which MIGHT be (although it probably isn't) grounded.

Do you NEED grounded outlets?  Weeellllll...yes and no.  IN THEORY, as long as you don't have any problems or shorts with your wiring, you don't need grounding.  Ground just supplies a safe path for the current to go to if there is a short - if you do have a short with an ungrounded outlet, there is no "safe path", and either you or your equipment can get cooked.

My honest advice: get an electrician to wire in a grounded outlet.

[SirPoonga]

Yeah.  There's a reason outlets went to 3 pins.  The fat pin is the hot (If I remember correctly), the skinny pin is neutral, which is basically a ground.  So now you wonder why they added a third pin, the ground pin.  I think in the 40s and 50s is when that was added.  Remember 50s toasters?  they had a metal shell.  Well, an imbalance of electricity and  the customer would get shocked.  Well, a ground pin for situations like that became important.  That;s what the third pin is for, excess electrons  Your computer needs that.  Note the case is metal (at least on the inside).  That for shielding and protection, it ends up going to that ground pin.

Like it has been said, the screw of an outlet is usually grounded, get one of those 3 to 2 pin converters and ground the tab to the screw.

[Sasquatch!]

Yeah.  There's a reason outlets went to 3 pins.  The fat pin is the hot (If I remember correctly), the skinny pin is neutral, which is basically a ground.  [/b]

Neutral is the longer blade, hot is the shorter blade.  I never really noticed that one was "fatter/skinnier" than the other.

So now you wonder why they added a third pin, the ground pin.  I think in the 40s and 50s is when that was added.  Remember 50s toasters?  they had a metal shell.  Well, an imbalance of electricity and  the customer would get shocked.  Well, a ground pin for situations like that became important.  That;s what the third pin is for, excess electrons  Your computer needs that.  Note the case is metal (at least on the inside).  That for shielding and protection, it ends up going to that ground pin.[/b]

I just found this - oddly enough, toasters aren't supposed to be grounded.  Kooky, huh?
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/section-28.html

[Brax]

Apparently you're not supposed to make toast in the bathtub either! Who knew?

[1UP]

Neutral is the longer blade, hot is the shorter blade.  I never really noticed that one was "fatter/skinnier" than the other.

I think he means on most modern plugs, one blade is wider (or taller I guess) than the other, or it widens out on the end.  Just like all modern outlets have a tall slot and a short slot.  I think we're all trying to say the same thing...but when you say "short and long" it makes me think you're talking about how far the blades protrude from the body of the plug....

BTW, do all the "neutrals" and grounds end up going to the same earth ground?

[SirPoonga]

BTW, do all the "neutrals" and grounds end up going to the same earth ground?

Eventually.  This was on TV not to long ago on hgtv.  They were discussion wiring a house and explaining EVERYTHING and how it works.

My bad, neutral is the larger slot.  

[SNAAAKE]

Thanks everyone !
I did find a set of 3 prong outlet...
Its under the dinning table so I will be using that one(with extention cord or course).
It was all painted and I never ever noticed.
AHHHH...now now I can finally play some games and not worry about frying everything.
WILL be posting pics of the cabinet soon(camera acting up again )

[u_rebelscum]

BTW, do all the "neutrals" and grounds end up going to the same earth ground?

There is only one earth, so yes.  Grounds and neutrals are supposed to be keep in seperate wires all the way to earth, just in case one or the other wire breaks or is mis-wired.

My parents have one socket were the neutral is ~ 2 volts AC; somewhere in the house is a bad connection.  But the ground is still a GND, which wouldn't be possible if they ran off the same wire.

[weizur]

Hmm this has got me thinking, I've had problems with my monitor frying components perhaps my outlet isn't grounded even though it has 3 prongs (or perhaps the stupid surge protector I used wasn't) how can I test the ground of my outlet. Say with a multimeter perhaps.

[SNAAAKE]

Hmm this has got me thinking, I've had problems with my monitor frying components perhaps my outlet isn't grounded even though it has 3 prongs (or perhaps the stupid surge protector I used wasn't) how can I test the ground of my outlet. Say with a multimeter perhaps.

GOOD question !
anyone?
I think the 3 prong I found is grounded but thats just me.I ONLY think it is but not sure.

[rampy]

Hmm this has got me thinking, I've had problems with my monitor frying components perhaps my outlet isn't grounded even though it has 3 prongs (or perhaps the stupid surge protector I used wasn't) how can I test the ground of my outlet. Say with a multimeter perhaps.

There's a five dollar tester you can get from a hardware store that plugs into your outlet and tells you (via led lights) if it's grounded properly and if it's polarized correctly.

*shrug*

Rampy

[creatine28]

how can I test the ground of my outlet. Say with a multimeter perhaps.

I think Home Depot sells a thing that looks like a plug, it will tell you if your socket is grounded properly.  Also if I recall, certain surge protectors will have a little indicator light marked "Fault", which will tell you if you're grounded properly.

[Yarb]

One point to consider is that a surge pupressor will do nothing if it doesn't have a ground, when there is a surge it is through the ground that the excess power is shunted. You can get away with an adapter but you will not be protected in case of a surge. You should NEVER replace your 2 prong outlets with a 3 prong without rewiring because you still won't have a ground wire connected to the third prong. In an old house I used to rent, my PC was on the opposite side of a wall from the water heater, I was able to make sure that the plumbing in the house was properly grounded to the grounding stakes outside the house so I then put in a 3 prong outlet and connected the ground prong to the plumbing... This will ONLY work with properly grounded (And all metal) plumbing. After I finished my Mame cab I found a new project, my GF and I have been rebuilding an old 2-story farmhouse built in 1890 and since we had it gutted I simply cut my losses and replaced all the wiring at once... then ran Cat 5e, Coax & speakers throughout ( :

Yarb

[SirPeale]

If you take the faceplate off, check the wiring.  There should be three wires: one black, one white, and one unshielded copper.  The black is ground, white neutral, and the copper is earth, IIRC.

If you are missing the copper, likely you have old wiring, and should have it checked by a professional.

[The Man]

If you take the faceplate off, check the wiring.  There should be three wires: one black, one white, and one unshielded copper.  The black is ground, white neutral, and the copper is earth, IIRC.

Black is ground?  Black is HOT! Call a professional.  Chances are you have an older home and it will be quite expensive to remedy the situation.  If you choose not to use a ground you will have hardware failures more frequently.

[SirPeale]

If you take the faceplate off, check the wiring.  There should be three wires: one black, one white, and one unshielded copper.  The black is ground, white neutral, and the copper is earth, IIRC.

Black is ground?  Black is HOT! Call a professional.  Chances are you have an older home and it will be quite expensive to remedy the situation.  If you choose not to use a ground you will have hardware failures more frequently.

Ah, crap I'm tired.  That's what I meant.  What he said.

* Peale goes off to sleep before he gives more incorrect advice

[hyiu]

when I move to my current home like 5 yrs ago...
all my outlets only have 2 holes... no ground...

the electrician re-do ALL the outlets so that it has 3 holes... (inlcuding the ground...) but according to my memory... he did not re-do the "wires".... so... from 2 hole to 3 hole... I'm pretty sure an electrician can just "re-wire the outlet"....

but no need to layout new wires inside the wall....

well... How this is done... sorry... I don't know....

hmmm.... somehow... after writing all these... seems like my msg has no useful info.... hmmm... ok.. better shut up now...  

[Sasquatch!]

If you take the faceplate off, check the wiring.  There should be three wires: one black, one white, and one unshielded copper.

when I move to my current home like 5 yrs ago...
all my outlets only have 2 holes... no ground...

the electrician re-do ALL the outlets so that it has 3 holes... (inlcuding the ground...) but according to my memory... he did not re-do the "wires".... so... from 2 hole to 3 hole... I'm pretty sure an electrician can just "re-wire the outlet"....

but no need to layout new wires inside the wall....

well... How this is done... sorry... I don't know....

It is very possible to have a proper earth ground without an extra wire.  In my house, ground is connected to the aluminum conduit that runs to all of the outlets (it's actually a huge copper wire that comes off of the break box and terminates at my cold water pipe).  This means that all of the conduit, as well as all of the outlet boxes themselves (provided that they're METAL outlet boxes and not plastic, of course) are grounded.  Viola, no need to run extra wiring for ground.

[Zeitgeist]

Most good surge protectors now a days have a green led that lights up when a ground is present.
Get one of these & there will be no questions as to if you're outlets are properly grounded on not.
Z

[SNAAAKE]

Most good surge protectors now a days have a green led that lights up when a ground is present.
Get one of these & there will be no questions as to if you're outlets are properly grounded on not.
Z

oh...yeah mine has a green led.
it says "protected"
I had an extention cord with a broken pin(fat pin) and I tried using it.
even then the green light was on and said protected.I guess everything should be fine.
Already found a 3 prong outlet anyway..hihi !

[shmokes]

Can't you just get one of those outlets that they use in bathrooms with the "test" and "reset" buttons on them?  Won't those give you many of the benefits of a ground even if you don't have a ground wire running through the house?  I forget what they're called, but outlets are EXTREMELY easy to install.  If you can build an arcade cabinet installing a new outlet is easier than getting out of bed in the morning.

[Yarb]

Those outlets are called GFI )Ground fault interupt) outlets but I don't think they will work without a ground.

Yarb