USB controller hack HELP!!!

[johnnybleu]

Alright, so I'm hacking up a few usb controllers for my control panel, but it's been a complete nightmare.

Long story short, I've been at this for nearly a week, and I have everything working perfectly. All the wires are soldered into place, and hooked up to the buttons, and all is functioning as it should. That is, except for one small detail.... For some reason, one of my controllers is constantly registering two button presses- left, and one of the shoulder buttons.

I've gone through everything trying to figure out what could be causing this- calibrated the controller, double and triple checked my joints to make sure I didn't bridge the contact points, make sure I wasn't grounding anywhere, etc etc etc. I'm just completely baffled. The controller in question is a Sector 7 Xtreme gaming pad- dpad, 4 face buttons, 4 shoulder buttons, dual analog, and rumble. I didn't remove the analog sticks, but I did cut off the rumble motors which I later re-attached trying to fix the problem.

I noticed the left direction sticking after I soldered my very first wire onto the contact (for left), but that eventually went away as I soldered more wires onto the board. I figured it just messed up the current or something.... By the time I was done soldering, everything was working beautifully, but after I hooked up all the wires to my CP, that's when I noticed the "sticking" buttons. At first, one of the "buttons" was just flashing constantly, and randomly stopped as I was snooping around the wires. Now, it's just always on for some reason...

Anyway, if anyone ran into the same problem, or has any ideas or suggestions, lemme hear it coz I've had about enough of this. I REALLY regret not getting the I-PAC in the first place.

Thanks in advance, and if you need more info just let me know.

[tikbalang]

- minimize wire lengths to cut down signal interference between wires that are too long or crossed-over or sticking too close to each other.

- if the circuit board uses common ground for the buttons, use one ground point on the circuit board and one wire going around each of the button's ground side.

- some dirt might be causing the microswitch to bounce.

- your gamepad maybe using some form of connection matrix, search the forum for "ghosting", "keyboard matrix", and use diodes to eliminate them.

[johnnybleu]

Thanks for the reply!

Well, I do know that one of the sticking buttons DOES have long wires, wrapped together- those are intended to be for the coin door. That's actually the button that was flickering for a while, but then worked fine, but is not constantly on.

As for a common ground, there doesn't seem to be one for the dpad... I have a 6 button CP, and hacked into the 4 face buttons, along with the 2 right triggers for those, using a common ground and daisy chain set up. That all works perfectly. The directions, however, don't seem to have a common grounding point, since when I was testing the contacts all kinds of crazy directions came up (i.e. up became right, left was down, etc etc). Those ones, along with the remaining two trigger buttons have two separate wires for each contact.

Oh, and the dirt in the microswitch, if you're talking about the arcade button microswitches, then that can't be it seeing as the controller registers the presses regardless of whether the wires are connected to anything or not.

I'll do a search on the matrix thing, see if those would be the symptoms I have.

Thanks again!

[johnnybleu]

Okay, so I've made some sort of progress.... I've fixed one of the sticking buttons (not the directional one)- by accident. I ended up soldering the two wires for one of the rumble motors to a ground point of the shoulder trigger board, and voila. It works fine now.

Now, for the left direction..... I removed the wires, but it's still registering the button press. The mere fact that there's some solder on the contacts seems to trigger it. Could it be that I fried something?

I did notice something however. The two buttons that were/are giving me a hard time were accidentally bridged with some solder. To fix this, I cut some of the "fingers" of the contact points in an attempt to break the connection. Could it be that this is causing all these problems? As far as I know, just cutting bits of the copper circuit track at the ends shouldn't have any effect on anything, but I'm no electronic wiz. Is it possible that this is the root of my woes, and can it be fixed?

I'd really like to get this to work, since buying an I-PAC now would seem like a monumental waste of time and resources... I've just put in os much work, and I'm so VERY close to have everything working that giving up now would be ridiculous. I'm just afraid it might be my only option.

Thanks again.

[tikbalang]

Now, for the left direction..... I removed the wires, but it's still registering the button press. The mere fact that there's some solder on the contacts seems to trigger it. Could it be that I fried something?

could it be you soldered the wires to the N.C. (normally closed) side of the button? that would be equivalent to the button being pressed. you want the N.O. (normally open) and C (common or ground point). check again because it's easy to reverse the signal and ground wires.

I did notice something however. The two buttons that were/are giving me a hard time were accidentally bridged with some solder. To fix this, I cut some of the "fingers" of the contact points in an attempt to break the connection.

it's hard to tell where the "fingers" connect to. why don't you just cut the connection where the accidental bridging happened?

Could it be that this is causing all these problems? As far as I know, just cutting bits of the copper circuit track at the ends shouldn't have any effect on anything, but I'm no electronic wiz. Is it possible that this is the root of my woes, and can it be fixed?

post pics. hopefully you haven't fried your circuit board bad enough for the copper to separate from it. i'm not anti-ipac or anything but usbpads are cheap and you'd end up the same: connecting wires from the circuit board to buttons. if there are wires from the ipac ready to connect to buttons, then that's another matter.

[johnnybleu]

Ok, well I've fiddled around a bit more (actually, a lot more) and I'm about to lose my mind here. This thing defies all logic.

Basically, I removed all wires from the boards, and the controller still thinks I'm pushing "left". It's just sitting there with a bit of solder on some connections. I then went a step further, and completely hacked off part of the board around the left button- just to make sure I was completely and absolutely breaking the connection.... It still thinks I'm pushing left. There's no way in hell the current is going through, and yet it's still registering.

I can only come to one conclusion.... Next to the left button was a surface mounted resistor (000). I'm thinking I must have accidentally cooked it with the iron. However, I'm no electronics expert, so I don't know if that could cause what's happening. My reasoning is that without the resistor, the current is flowing more.... no, wait. The current can't flow since I completely removed the resistor, and the track leading to and from it. This circuit should be broken!!!

At this point, I'm just gonna hook up the "left" direction to another button, and use some creative manipulation of Mame's default.cfg and try to trick it into thinking all directions are working as they should. Don't know if it's possible, but I have nothing left.

Thanks for all the help, but I fear this is a lost cause.

[ghettodish]

Think you are going crazy? I'm having the same problem with two GPWizzes I bought!

Good luck with the re-mapping. I couldn't do it since mame thinks the left-direction is being pushed every time I wanted to choose a new input. I'm waiting for my I-pacs to show up...

[CathalDublin]

Why dont you post up a few hi-res pictures of the board? someone might be able to spot something you may have missed

I gave up on keyboard/joystick hacks and bought a i-pac and never looked back, simple 5 minute setup on my machine and i've 2 joysticks 6 buttons per player and 1 coinslot

[tikbalang]

i think there may be some solder between the rakelike printed circuit paths common in gamepads, where the pad makes the connection. try soldering closer to the root of the rakes, before they separate into tips.

these points may also be covered with carbon, which you did not rub out enough prior to soldering.

[daywane]

not all game pads can be hacked.
I have hacked many.
broke about 6 before I got it down.
sidewinders and PlayStation's are best to hack.
The OLD sidewinder that plug into game port on your sound card are the VERY BEST. I mean allmost child proof
you do not even have to solder to the buttons. the board has holes with labels to what they are.
you can hook up to 4 sidewinders back to back. (Do Not Use extentions or  Y cable. ) ( Fries the board  Been there done that) but the wires you solder in can be very long)
I doubt you can hook up a key wiz or any thing else in 5 min. 
faster then a game pad hack but not as fun to do.
This is called
Build Your Own Arcade Contolls.
Hack the pads and have fun.
I have burned a few pads and still used them like you are saying with edit controlls in Mame.
just do not assign the stuck button on the pad to any thing
as far as Mame is concerned that lit button is not there.

[daywane]

what is the watt on your solder gun?
I like 15 watt.
25 watt is most the time OK
nothing more than that. Too Hot
find the thinest solder you can find.
I call it angel hair
very thin stuff
hard to tin with but take your time and it will work.
buy the time I get done my hands are shaking
I have one of those lights with a magnifying lens and a stand with clips to hold my pads.
The guy at radio shack here know me and knows what I mean (small itsy bitty little hick town)

[johnnybleu]

Well, thanks for all the input, folks!
I've got the problem fixed. Well, not fixed, but I've managed to work around it. Just mapped the "left" direction to another button, and set it up accordingly in Mame. I then went into the cfg file, and deleted any instances of the "real" left input, and voila. Seems to work well enough. The only problem with having the left button constantly pressed is that it seems to be causing mamewah to do weird things.... Also, my PC didn't find the controller when I booted up- I had to unplug it, and plug it back in.

@cynos:
I don't think pictures are needed anymore, since things are working now. Hacking a controller is fun, but man is it ever frustrating.... If I ever have to do this again, It'll probably be an I-PAC.

@tikbalang:
Well, the rakes are gone. I cut them off in an attempt to break the circuit. The thing is still convinced I'm pressing "left". I've no clue what's going on.

@daywane:
Yeah, it seems some controllers are just better than others... I actually went through 5 before all was said and done... To be fair, however, 2 of those weren't really working to begin with. Now, what do you mean by burning the pad? Is it actually possible to use too much heat and mess up the circuit board? Could that be what's happening here?

My soldering iron is an adjustable one.... I usually go with 25-30 watts. Solders in less than a second. Of course, I didn't know that at first, and I literally cooked a few pads, where the copper circuits just came right off the board. Lets just say it was a learning experience. Hahahahah.

Anyway, the problem is mostly solved... I just never thought this little project would be so complicated.

Thanks again!

[HaRuMaN]

I would recommend a 15 watt soldering iron for any gamepad hacking.  Still solders plenty fast, and makes it less likely that you will burn components.

As for your left being constantly on, you have created a short somewhere.  Could be an extra gob of solder making a complete circuit.

[johnnybleu]

I would recommend a 15 watt soldering iron for any gamepad hacking.  Still solders plenty fast, and makes it less likely that you will burn components.

As for your left being constantly on, you have created a short somewhere.  Could be an extra gob of solder making a complete circuit.

That's what I was thinking, but I double, and triple checked all of my joints, and all of them are fine- no contacts are bridged. Unless it's somewhere I didn't even solder. Guess it could be worth an extra look....

[dmworking247]

Have you considered that your controller does not have a common ground?

I've hacked a few where the up/left has a different ground than the right/down, and others where everything was common except for the start/select buttons.

Do a continuity test from all your ground points and ensure that they are indeed common?

[johnnybleu]

Have you considered that your controller does not have a common ground?

I've hacked a few where the up/left has a different ground than the right/down, and others where everything was common except for the start/select buttons.

Do a continuity test from all your ground points and ensure that they are indeed common?

Oh, I know the directions do not have a common ground. All of them are actually wired separately, with two wires per contact. The rest of the buttons have a common ground setup, and I've daisy-chained those.

[daywane]

@daywane:
 what do you mean by burning the pad? Is it actually possible to use too much heat and mess up the circuit board? Could that be what's happening here?

I think so.
I have on my first mod chip on a PS1
I think it could happen as well on a game pad