why no top switchable joystick that has a long throw?

[severdhed]

from what i have been reading, the only two joysticks that are switchable from 4 to 8 way from the top of the panel are the magstik plus, and the omnistick prodigy. (correct me if i am wrong).  upon reading the reviews of these two sticks, the biggest complaint about them is they both have a very short throw, which is unlike most other joysticks on the market.  I'm not a big fan of the look of the omnistick's ball/bat top hybrid look, or the mounting plate.  the magstik doesnt use the same mounting hole spacing as most other sticks, i was going to buy one to try it, but i would have to make new holes in my panel just to test it out.

i know everyone seems to recommend the u360 sticks, which do seem to be the most versatile sticks out there..and I am very close to ordering a pair...however i have been seeing quite a few threads lately where people are having some small problems with their u360s...and I am hesitant to spend that kind of money on a joystick if it isn't bullet proof.

i dont know the first thing about manufacturing joysticks, but you would think that by now, someone would have made a stick that is 4/8way switchable from the top, that has the general throw and feel of the other industry standard sticks.  i just like having a physically restricted stick, and i am a little worried that the u360 just wont cut it since it isn't restricted.

i don't have alot of experience with many different joysticks, but i have used teh following sticks and the throw and general feel is relatively similar across all of them:

x-arcade
happ competition
ultimarc J-stick
wico 8way leaf switch

the Jstick feels good as an 8way or 4way stick and is switchable from below the panel...i just wish there was a stick liek this that was top switchable....is this an impossible task?  i know from reading the countless threads on joysticks here that there are a large number of people who would jump at the chance to buy a good 4/8 way top switchable stick  if someone were to make it.   i just dont understand why nobody has done this yet.   maybe it is too difficult to do, i dont know...perhaps Andy or Randy T can shed some light on this.

[DaveMMR]

i know everyone seems to recommend the u360 sticks, which do seem to be the most versatile sticks out there..and I am very close to ordering a pair...however i have been seeing quite a few threads lately where people are having some small problems with their u360s...and I am hesitant to spend that kind of money on a joystick if it isn't bullet proof.

In this DIY hobby with many different types of personal needs (spread across different types of hardware), almost nothing will be "bulletproof".  Everything from hardware to software has it's pros and cons.  Being able to find someone to help you "work around the cons" is part of this board's services. 

As for the U360's, I think they are great, versatile sticks but I can see where a couple of people wouldn't like that its 4-way is not mechanically restricted.  If that's not an issue for you, I recommend it. 

[Ginsu Victim]

i have been seeing quite a few threads lately where people are having some small problems with their u360s...

More like nit-picky ---smurf-poop---. You can find a reason to complain about anything you buy. I've only seen minor gripes about the U360 and what bothers some hasn't bothered me in the least. They are well worth picking up.

i just like having a physically restricted stick, and i am a little worried that the u360 just wont cut it since it isn't restricted.

Three different restrictors available (round, square, and octagonal).

[severdhed]

yeah, i know that there are restrictors for the u360s, but that doesnt give it 4 way restriction when i'm playing pacman.    i'll probably end up going with the u360s, simply because there isnt a great stick with a physical restrictor that it switchable from the top panel.   i just wish i had options.

[Ginsu Victim]

Twist the square restrictor one way for 8-way, the other for 4-way. Plays great in Pac-man games.

[severdhed]

yeah, but you can't do that from the top of the panel, which makes it no better than a jstick or any other bottom switchable stick. i dont want to have to open my panel to switch my stick....i just want a good top switchable stick that doesnt have a short throw...and i dont think i am alone.

i'll probably buy the u360 and just try to adjust to not haveing a physical 4 way restrictor...but it is less than ideal

[daywane]

I have the old "T"stick
i forget what it is called now.
but I like it just fine.
plays MsPac fine
did I have it on my MsPac , no, I use a real MsPac joystick
but I did use it in other cabs for the same game.
only thin I noticed was the darn click click noise

[Bender]

first off the U360 is a great stick, I've been using several of them for over a year and haven't had any problems

the complaints, as far as I can tell, are from abuse (bent washers, ect) or people who don't take the time to set them up right, it is a little complicated precisely because they are so versatile
Plus Ultimarc's customer service is top notch to help out if anything does go wrong

on the other hand I bet there is a way to modify a j-Stick to make it switchable from above or from the side of a CP
seems like you could attach a "L" shaped piece of metal to the restrictor and have the top of the "L" come through the top of the CP

it would take some work but very possible

[severdhed]

I am just worried about the u360 holding up to the abuse of being used by children.  i know i can take care of them very well, but i have  22month old who loves to bang around on my cabinet.  if he breaks my x-arcade stick, i am out $20 or something...i am just worried that he may break my u360 and then i am out $70. 

also, for those of you using the u360...are any of you using the wire harness to attach buttons to the built in interface?  or are you using a separate ipac or somethign?  i am planning on buying two u360s and using the built in encoders for my buttons, but i would like some feedback from someone who is doing this....  also does it support shifted buttons like the ipac?  i need 6 buttons per player, plus coin,start, and would like pause and exit buttons.  i plan on making p1 buttons 5 and 6 mouse buttons, so that would free up the inputs on the u360 that i need...but if there was shift functionality, that would make me feel better about this...

[Ginsu Victim]

I'm using a minipac for the main buttons and the U360 encoder for hidden admin buttons. The U360 does feature a shift button (button 8 ). You don't have to buy the wire harness for it if you have a firewire cable (the one that plugs to the motherboard) laying around. Plug the mobo end into the U360, lop off the other end, and wire it to the buttons. You might have to move some of the connections around on the plug (use a razor blade to slide the ends out).

[Todd H]

Don't let anyone scare you off of purchasing a U360. It's a fantastic stick and Andy is probably one of the best vendors when it comes to customer service. The only problem I had with mine was one of the restrictor posts broke off while trying to remove it. Andy is sending me the replacement parts. If you run into a problem he'll take care of you.

[Jimbo]

I have 2xU360s and they are great.

You may need to upgrade the firmware on the sticks to get shift button functionality, if yours don't already have v2.4. (see here).

 

[shardian]

There are different mounting plates for the mag stick +. I bought one off a guy here that came with both plates.

[severdhed]

it is just frustrating that this is the case.  judging by the number of threads about switchable joysticks, there is clearly a high demand for such a device...and it seems as if just about everyone who buys one of the top switchable sticks ends up replacing them because they dont feel right.   I understand the u360 is a great option, and does things that a magstick cannot do...you would think that by now, someone would make a stick that is as versatile as the magstik, but doesnt suffer from the short throw, which is the number 1 complaint about this product.

i'm going to end up getting u360s, because i dont have room for a dedicated 4 way stick, and you cannot play donkey kong with an 8way.  i just wish there was a long throw stick that was switchable from the top, because i would buy that instead...i like having a real 4way stick, but i dont like the frankenpanel look that goes along with it.

[Paul Olson]

You may want to look into a swappable or modular panel if the feel of the joystick is important to you. I know I wasn't happy with anything but a Nintendo joystick for Donkey Kong. It is a lot more work, but I think you will be a lot happier with the result. Even if you just have a 4way panel and an 8way panel, it might be worth it. I think the problem is that the switchable sticks are based on European or Japanese sticks that tend to have shorter throws and use the narrower mounting pattern. Happ sticks are made for any market, so they have both mounting holes. I don't really know if there is a big enough market to make it worth designing one from scratch. It would be a fairly expensive stick and would lose buyers to the more versatile u360s. This is kinda like the Tron stick thing, it seems like there is a huge market, but there really isn't. It is easier, and usually cheaper, to buy the original sticks on ebay. A wico 4way or a game specific stick always feels better than any of the aftermarket sticks I have tried for 4 way games.

[severdhed]

i've thought about swapable panels, but that takes away from the approachability of it.  This thing mostly gets used by friends and family, alot of which don't know what kind of stick they should be using..they just know it doesnt work right when they use the wrong one.  i want to have a single panel, with a single joystick per player....so it looks like the u360s are the way to go.

[KDOG]

There are different mounting plates for the mag stick +. I bought one off a guy here that came with both plates.

That was me. I got it from arcade-in-a-box and he doesn't sell anything but custom fighter controllers now. Function was spot on but i didn't like the form. That why I sold it.

[RandyT]

i just dont understand why nobody has done this yet.   maybe it is too difficult to do, i dont know...perhaps Andy or Randy T can shed some light on this.

For the most part, it's just geometry and the limitations imposed by the mechanical configuration of joysticks.  Consider that the distance from corner to corner on a square is longer than the distance from any two sides, and you have pretty good start on the problem.  Those two sides get rotated to become the restriction that prevents diagonals, so this tends to dictate a shorter throw in 8-way mode.

That being said, I am working to make one of the more popular switch-based sticks out there into a physically restricted, switchable version, and am pretty close to having something that is marketable.  If all goes well, kits to upgrade existing sticks will also be a possibility.  They will be "bottom switchable", but will have the ability to attach to a manual mechanism for switching from outside the cabinet through a couple of different methods.

And, the throw is longer than other switchables.  One thing to keep in mind on that, BTW, is the throw is proportional to the length of the stick.  One way to increase throw on a short throw stick is to replace the shaft with a longer one and use spacers to set the body of the stick lower in the panel.

RandyT

[severdhed]

thanks, randyt....that makes sense.  i didnt even think about extending the handle.  i may have to rethink this now.  i am waiting for the deposit my wife made this morning to show up in my bank account and i was planning on ordering some u360s...but i may need to look into this a little more now...

[TheShanMan]

i've thought about swapable panels, but that takes away from the approachability of it.  This thing mostly gets used by friends and family, alot of which don't know what kind of stick they should be using..they just know it doesnt work right when they use the wrong one.  i want to have a single panel, with a single joystick per player....so it looks like the u360s are the way to go.

With that goal in mind, u360's are unquestionably the stick to go with. Top switchable joysticks are not something the uninformed, or little kids, want to deal with. I have swappable panels and my 7 yr old son would always try to play 4 way games with my 8 way panel, and have problems with the game as a result. Now it's a non issue because most of the time I have my dual u360 panel installed. I only use my single mag stik plus panel when I'm playing a 4 way game (and I love it for that).

[DaveMMR]

i've thought about swapable panels, but that takes away from the approachability of it.  This thing mostly gets used by friends and family, alot of which don't know what kind of stick they should be using..they just know it doesnt work right when they use the wrong one.  i want to have a single panel, with a single joystick per player....so it looks like the u360s are the way to go.

I was going with swappable panels too but decided on one "do-all" panel featuring the U360's, a TB and spinner for the same reason you mentioned: approachability.   It's hard enough to get people to remember how to exit out of a game, but to start explaining the mechanics of switching out a piece of wood just to play Pac-Man for 5 minutes seemed like too much to ask of casual players.  It never bothered me though - the U360's are up to the multi-tasking with nary a hiccup.

I still left my self open for swappable panels but have yet to make any specialized ones.

[severdhed]

that makes sense though...i want it to be easy for anyone to just walk up and use...swappable panels don't accomplish that goal..and neither do switchable joysticks.  the only way for that to work is either 1 joystick that does everything (u360) or separate dedicated joysticks.   my panel right now is 12x30".  i had it set up as a frankenpanel and people were just confused.  so i'm thinking to u360s, and a trackball should take careof most of it.  i have a spinner that i made, but to be honest, i dont think i'm going to put it back in...it was more of a novelty than anything.  I do miss the trackball though, i want to play centipede. 

thank you guys for helping me sort this out...as it turns out..for this particular situation, the u360 is my best option.  although after i build this new panel, i am going to reassemble my x-arcade unit for use with console games...it would be really nice to have a long throw switchable stick for that...

[Paul Olson]

I guess I look at this a little differently than most. I built my modular panel because I want to have the right controls for all of the games I want to play. I don't let my  guests swap the panels unless they have shown enough interest to take the time to learn how it works. At parties, I will put a fairly generic layout on there and limit the menu to games that work with that layout. The next time, I will set up a different layout. Most people do not know the difference between a 4 and 8 way joystick, and they really don't care enough to learn.

I think the u360s are the best option if you want the widest variety of games automatically configured. Like DaveMMR said, you can prepare for swappable panels without actually making any. Just make the CP easily removable, and use some type of connector to make the wiring easy to unplug. Go easy and generic for the masses, but leave other options for yourself in case you want them later on.

[metaHipster]

the old top-switchable sticks I have from Ultimarc (replaced by the magstick?) work fine for me across a wide range of 8-way/4-way games though I agree the throw is a bit short.  If this was a big enough priority, I could have either top-mounted it or switched to a metal control panel.  As it stands, it seems fine, though the clicking is a bit annoying from the switches underneath.  Still way cheaper than the U-360 for sure, even with the extra ball-top knobs

-Matt

[severdhed]

i bought the u360 sticks...it will take me some time to build the new panel, since i want to do it right this time..but i did make a temp panel and i have to say, so far, i like them alot...they work great for 4 way games.