Author Topic: Quake and Unreal games on your MAME cab? (controls) (Read 8496 times)

jhsmith321 · « **on:** June 19, 2003, 11:29:25 am »

Hello! I am trying to design my cab to be able to play as many games (consoles, emulators, pc games, etc) as I can on a single control panel layout. I am thinking on adding 4 joysticks, 2 light guns, a spinner, a trackball and maybe a removable steering wheel. My questions are:
Has anyone tried to play any of the games of the Quake or Unreal series with their Mame cab or do this kind of pc games do not support joysticks, trackballs??.??
Is it difficult to control the aim, jump, shoot, crawl, turn left, etc, at the same time, as you would control them or have all the functions close together with a keyboard??? I supposed that you should hold the joystick with one hand (walk, turn?) and the trackball with the other (aiming mostly), but that does not allows me to control buttons the fire buttons and so on, without taking my hands off the trackball?..
How did you accomplish a setting that works fine for this???
I personally love all the first person shooter games. If anyone has a picture of their CP that they are using to play this type of pc games and would like to post it, as well for any responses, suggestions, comments, etc. will be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!!. Thanks in advance.

_{Edited the title for less eye strain --Tom61}

BillyJack · « **Reply #1 on:** June 19, 2003, 11:55:38 am »

wow...
how about a topfire super joystick?

rampy · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2003, 12:05:31 pm »

How about some line breaks, a more concise subject that isn't in all caps?

=P

Ok... with that out of my system... it depends.

Most people knee jerk to say modern FPS pc games don't play well on an arcade cabinet because even with a trackball you can't negotiate all the buttons with the same elegance as you could keyboard and mouse.

Some PC games do play well (check the sticky in the software forum), particularly the older ones on a MAME cabinet. Like wolf3d =P

I'm not sure how you are wiring up your control panel... but if you are using a keyboard encoder and teh game in question support remapping, an arcade joystick push looks just like an "up arrow" on a keyboard (just an example mapping)... and a trackball looks just like a mouse. *shrug*

You might be able to get good action with a tball and top fire joy as suggested... but you'd probably be at a disadvantage to a keyboard+mouse player IMHO.

and finally can there ever be enough games for you (rhetorically speaking)? Between MAME, zinc, nes/snes/psx/tg16/c64/atari's/gen/gb/ emulators, old pc games that work well on cabinets... interfacing modern consoles with your cabinet... that's probably 10,000 plus games..

Use your regular PC for the modern FPS shooter, eh?

Rampy

jhsmith321 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2003, 12:28:09 pm »

and finally can there ever be enough games for you (rhetorically speaking)? Between MAME, zinc, nes/snes/psx/tg16/c64/atari's/gen/gb/ emulators, old pc games that work well on cabinets... interfacing modern consoles with your cabinet... that's probably 10,000 plus games..

I know that I am talking of several thousand games, I just want to keep open all my options =), I do play a couple of emulators far more than others, but it is nice to have a single CP that allows to play most of the games without the need to swaps different CP

rampy · « **Reply #4 on:** June 19, 2003, 12:31:47 pm »

You realize you answered a rhetoricall question, right?

Just teasing... Anyways if you AREN'T a keybaord+mouse FPS disciple... maybe what was outlined would work for you.

Another idea that's discussed is to have a USB port available to plug in gamepads, or playstation pads with USB adapters, etc to either add additional players on the fly or do specialty controls.

A Microsoft Dual-strike works passably well for FPS's... but I didn't give it a chance before going back to mouse+keyboard...

*shrug* good luck!

rampy

meta87 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 19, 2003, 12:35:42 pm »

You could make a rollout keyboard tray, and just use that.

jhsmith321 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19, 2003, 01:16:21 pm »

Quote from: meta87 on June 19, 2003, 12:35:42 pm

You could make a rollout keyboard tray, and just use that.

Thas is one of my options in mind, I do plan to add a rollout or a wireless keyboard to the cab, but I rather leave it only as an input device for the emualtors (options, configs, etc) and not for playing with it, that is why I am looking for suggestions on the CP layout, but thanks anyway!!!!

HeadRusch · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2003, 01:57:42 pm »

YES YOU CAN PLAY BOTH ON YOUR CABINET BUT REALISTICALLY YOU SHOULD CONSIDER A RF OR KEYBOARD (OR ONE OF THOSE MINI-KEYPADS THAT PLUGS INTO A USB HUB) AND A WIRELESS MOUSE OR TRACKBALL, FORGET GOING WITH THE JOYSTICK. FOR CONSOLE EMULATORS I PREFER TO USE A JOYPAD, THE WAY NATURE INTENDED EM TO BE PLAYED..AND I LIKE DUCKIES...

tman2k · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2003, 03:13:46 pm »

You know, one good option for first person shooters may be to use one of those push-pull spinners from Oscar for aiming (left right up down), and a topfire joystick for moving around...or, instead of just a topfire joystick, you could always hack a flight joystick onto an 8-way base, and that would give you quite a few buttons you could map to other things...
Heck, now that I think about it, I may just do that myself...I think that would work out great!

shmokes · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2003, 03:29:06 pm »

Mount one of these bad boys in your control panel and use it in conjunction with the trackball...

http://www.grnetwork.com/alienware/accessories/belkin_n50_speedpad.html

This thing, as strange as it looks, is pretty highly regarded by most people who have tried it. It was also received well by most of the videogame press.

Lilwolf · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2003, 03:48:30 pm »

I hate trackballs for FPS's myself.

I did consider creating a mouse control panel...

I was going to get one of those all black opti mice and hack the wire (so it goes through a whole in the cp) and make sure it doesnt move... Then add all the other buttons needed...

I thought it would be sweet... but I haven't got around to it (1) and I don't mind playing it on my other PC (2) and my arcade monitor only has 640x480 (3)...

So I will probably just ignore it for now...

shmokes · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2003, 03:53:45 pm »

I would never, ever put a mouse with a cord on a control panel when the MX700 exists. Best. Mouse. Ever.

mccall · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2003, 04:35:35 pm »

Are you going to be using a TV or a monitor? If you're going to be using a TV you might not be happy with the lower resolution when playing the newer FPS games. If you're going to be using a monitor this obviously isn't a concern.

jhsmith321 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2003, 08:32:48 pm »

Quote from: mccall on June 19, 2003, 04:35:35 pm

Are you going to be using a TV or a monitor? If you're going to be using a TV you might not be happy with the lower resolution when playing the newer FPS games. If you're going to be using a monitor this obviously isn't a concern.

Well I am thinking on using one of those Sony Wega TVs as they claim to have better a pixel or dot pitch (I do not remember how they call it), so it should look a little bit better than a regular tv screen. I know that it is not going to look as good as a monitor but you know it is a size vs cost matter. Thanks for your comments!!! =)

HeadRusch · « **Reply #14 on:** June 19, 2003, 08:59:35 pm »

I play Unreal Tournament 2003 on my MAMECAB with the 20" TV...res is set at 800x600 and frankly it looks beautiful. I can take a snap but it'll never come out without looking blurry......trust me, you can run FPS's just fine.

Remember, if you can play medal of honor on your TV with a PS2, you can play it on your PC the same way......

mccall · « **Reply #15 on:** June 20, 2003, 12:01:34 am »

I didn't say he couldn't play it, I said he might not be happy with the lower resolution. If he's one of those people who play these games at 1280x or 1600x resolutions, and there are plenty of them out there, he MIGHT not be happy at 800x.

Also, as I understand it, you don't get true 800x600 resolution on your analog TV since it only has 525 lines. The image is reduced using (I believe) an algorithm. Depending on the card, the image can be good or not so good, but it isn't true 800x600.

spectre · « **Reply #16 on:** June 20, 2003, 12:28:12 am »

1600X1200 - the ONLY way to go...

HeadRusch · « **Reply #17 on:** June 20, 2003, 01:42:57 am »

The point of my post was that games look just fine on a TV, just softer due to the much larger "dot pitch" that a TV has over a computer monitor.

1600x1200 is overkill.....my 02 cents......and yes I'm aware of the limitations of SDTV.

CthulhuLuke · « **Reply #18 on:** June 20, 2003, 03:45:10 am »

It's very very possible to play FPS games on a Mame cabinet, as long as you have enough buttons, and you like the feel. There's two games I can think of right off the bat that do this, Quake Tournament Prototype arcade, and The Grid. The Grid's a seriously fun FPS that I've spent many quarters on, although it's pretty outdated now a days.
Quake Arcade - http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=9188
The Grid Flyer - http://www.arcadeflyers.com/flyers/midwayg/61501001.jpg

The Grid pulled it off really well with that trigger joystick, and I'm sure you could do the same with a super joystick, hack in a tron joystick to it *or use the Raider joystick handle hack*, put a few more buttons around the trackball, and presto. Maybe you could even put in a keypad like they have on the actual machine for selecting weapons.
-Luke

spectre · « **Reply #19 on:** June 20, 2003, 04:01:58 am »

1600X1200 isn't an overkill
i can get games up to around 1550 i think it is by whatever...
lol
good ol ati radeon 9000 pro not even the best out there by far... lol
but it gets the job done

paigeoliver · « **Reply #20 on:** June 20, 2003, 04:09:58 am »

THis thread reminds me of one of the project ideas that I had that I never got around to making.

A Thief: The Dark Project environmental cab. Like a Discs of Tron environmental, and of course with 4 channel sound.

Magnet_Eye · « **Reply #21 on:** June 20, 2003, 07:37:02 am »

This thread reminds me...I need a BEER!

Malachai · « **Reply #22 on:** June 20, 2003, 11:59:14 am »

WAR was a FPS in the arcade. I used 4 or 5 buttons and a 2 button trigger stick. It takes a second to adjust if you are used to keyboard/mouse setups, but works very well once you get used to it. Could throw a spinner in there and have a FPS/Tron CP. That would be pretty cool. Here's WAR on KLOV.
http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=W&game_id=10402

IG-88 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2003, 03:35:56 pm »

Quote from: Malachai on June 20, 2003, 11:59:14 am

WAR was a FPS in the arcade. I used 4 or 5 buttons and a 2 button trigger stick.

Are you playing this game emulated? Or do you have the original? Just curious.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #24 on:** June 20, 2003, 04:53:18 pm »

I think old school fps like wolf3d, doom, quake1 all work well in an arcade environment.

But now, especially after playing many FPS on the PS2 which has one of the best designed controllers for FPS of any console, I can't imaginge playing a FPS without a keyboard and mouse. I guess I am just spoiled. It;s alot easier to aim with a mouse, 3 buttons a scroll wheel help out tremendously. There's a reason there is not many fps in the arcades, really hard to pull off comfortable, easy controls.

jhsmith321 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 20, 2003, 05:30:09 pm »

Does anyone knows if the Quake 2 or the Unreal 2 games support a joystick input, I have played the games, but I just cant find the option menu to enable a joystick.

And thanks all you guys for all your great comments!!! they gave me a better idea for desining my CP!!!! If there is somebody else who would like to contribute, i will greatly appreciate it!!!

jhsmith321 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 20, 2003, 05:47:33 pm »

Quote from: CthulhuLuke on June 20, 2003, 03:45:10 am

It's very very possible to play FPS games on a Mame cabinet, as long as you have enough buttons, and you like the feel. There's two games I can think of right off the bat that do this, Quake Tournament Prototype arcade, and The Grid. The Grid's a seriously fun FPS that I've spent many quarters on, although it's pretty outdated now a days.
Quake Arcade - http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=9188
The Grid Flyer - http://www.arcadeflyers.com/flyers/midwayg/61501001.jpg

The Grid pulled it off really well with that trigger joystick, and I'm sure you could do the same with a super joystick, hack in a tron joystick to it *or use the Raider joystick handle hack*, put a few more buttons around the trackball, and presto. Maybe you could even put in a keypad like they have on the actual machine for selecting weapons.
-Luke

Hello Luke!!! One question, do you know where can i find a picture of the Grids CP?? I looked at the link that you gave me, and it seems to be what I am looking for........ By the way, did that arcade machine had a keyboar on the CP?

I did never play it so I dont really know........ THANKS!!!!

Molloy · « **Reply #27 on:** June 20, 2003, 06:49:40 pm »

Arcade games are best on an arcade machines, fps games are best on a mouse and keyboard.. convergence of the two would lead to both being unsatisfying.

rampy · « **Reply #28 on:** June 20, 2003, 07:22:01 pm »

Quote from: jhsmith321 on June 20, 2003, 05:30:09 pm

Does anyone knows if the Quake 2 or the Unreal 2 games support a joystick input, I have played the games, but I just cant find the option menu to enable a joystick. Because if there is no way to control the game other than a keyboard and a mouse, there is no too many things that I can do about...........

Do you even comprehend HOW you are going to be interfacing your arcade controls with a PC in the first place? That's an important conceptual leap you'd need to make before worrying about all this other stuff...

I only say that, because you don't seem to *get* it... albeit there's the possibility you are doing some weirdo hack instead of using an ipac/key wiz/et al... in order to get some console action or

?

*shrug* besides the fact taht you want to play everything and are planning on using a wega TV ( you must have some extra bucks floating around your wallet, huh?) really don't have a sense as to how you are apporaching your project to give you realistic answers to your query...

I dunno... i'm rambling (AGAIN!) ... I just wonder, (aloud) if you've done enough home work to make your project a success...

but that's just me... and i've been wrong before... and my opinion isn't th e end all ... I'm trying to be constructive but it's not coming out right at all... =P

good luck though!

Rampy

CthulhuLuke · « **Reply #29 on:** June 21, 2003, 04:37:16 pm »

Unfortunately that was the ONLY picture I could find of the grid arcade machine, it seems Midway doesn't even support that game anymore, so they took down it's website. On the Quake cabinet, yah that was a keyboard, so the owners of the arcade could modify the game and such.
I'll explain how the grid's control panel is setup, and its pretty much the same as the Quake one, but they use a joystick instead of buttons for movement.
-One 3" trackball to look around, inverting movement feels much more natural on your hand.
- X amount of buttons around the trackball, well it has 1, but you can put as many as you want for things like crouch, jump, +hook, etc. Quake only has 3 extras for Change Weapon, Fire, and Jump.
- 1 analog joystick, you could use just about any analog joystick you find at the store, just make sure it's not made of cheap breakable plastic like my Raider Pro Blue joystick, I almost bent the plastic outta shape during a game of Half Life.
- Optional idea that the Grid has on it, is one of those telephone keypads, they use it for entering passwords and cheats, but you could use it for selecting weapons, etc. I don't know exactly where to find one, but I'm sure you could find it somewhere, maybe even an old payphone *or new one, just don't get caught*
I've been thinkin about this kinda control panel, and I think if I ever make a rotatable control panel, one of them will have to be a FPS panel, because playing FPS with a trackball is just way to fun, I used to play Half Life online with one and a joystick for a while, it was very fun.
-Luke

jhsmith321 · « **Reply #30 on:** June 21, 2003, 06:25:09 pm »

Thanks Luke!!! and THANKS TO EVERYONE who has helped me with their comments!!! They have been very usefull to me!!!!

Malachai · « **Reply #31 on:** June 23, 2003, 11:51:40 am »

Quote

Are you playing this game emulated? Or do you have the original? Just curious.

I played it in the arcade. It isn't emulated as far as I know.

jhsmith321 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 23, 2003, 05:29:33 pm »

Quote from: Malachai on June 23, 2003, 11:51:40 am

Quote
Are you playing this game emulated? Or do you have the original? Just curious.
I played it in the arcade. It isn't emulated as far as I know.

The original....

Reptilz · « **Reply #33 on:** June 18, 2008, 01:56:13 am »

Im planning on making "the grid control panel very soon. First I need to find "the grid" PCB JAMMA first.

Unless this game is playable with MAME...but I dont think its playable yet is it?

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #34 on:** June 18, 2008, 10:25:58 am »

You do realize you just pulled up a five year old thread, right?

Donkey_Kong · « **Reply #35 on:** June 18, 2008, 11:17:10 am »

Quote from: GinsuVictim on June 18, 2008, 10:25:58 am

You do realize you just pulled up a five year old thread, right?

Interesting thread though. I wonder what ever happened to rampy...

TOK · « **Reply #36 on:** June 18, 2008, 12:10:41 pm »

Quote from: Donkey_Kong on June 18, 2008, 11:17:10 am

Quote from: GinsuVictim on June 18, 2008, 10:25:58 am
You do realize you just pulled up a five year old thread, right?

Interesting thread though. I wonder what ever happened to rampy...

Yea, and look at Shmokes posting in game topics. Who the heck knew he was into that?

Havok · « **Reply #37 on:** June 18, 2008, 06:30:02 pm »

Quote from: TOK on June 18, 2008, 12:10:41 pm

Quote from: Donkey_Kong on June 18, 2008, 11:17:10 am
Quote from: GinsuVictim on June 18, 2008, 10:25:58 am
You do realize you just pulled up a five year old thread, right?

Interesting thread though. I wonder what ever happened to rampy...

Yea, and look at Shmokes posting in game topics. Who the heck knew he was into that?

That was 5 years ago - now he's just a PnR whore...


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