New builder, CP questions

[mr_doles]

Well I have decided to BMOAC and am starting a square 1.  I have spent the last week reading tons or articles on the board and have learned a lot.  After playing around with the software side of things I am looking at starting with the CP.  I have a few questions:

1)Encoders:  What is the “best” way to go here?  Seems like I-PAC + Opti-PAC or the KeyWiz + OptiWiz seem to be a popular choice.  Hagstrom Electronics stuff looks nice but is way to pricey compared to these others.  Are there other good options that people use?  I am going with a two player setup (6 buttons each) plus a few misc others so I don't need a million inputs.  I want to run multiple emulators so changing maps easy is high priority.

2)Joystick:  I know this is another preference question, but I have read a lot of people talking about 2/4/8 way and restrictor plates, u360's, HAPPS, optical, etc.  Is a separate 4-way and 8-way the best way to go, or are there ways to switch on the fly, i.e. not take the case apart to flip a switch.  I would not kill me to not be able to play Q-Bert, but I would hate to die a lot because I went diagonal rather then up.  Then to throw flames on the fire what about a 49way joystick.

3)Buttons:  Again I want a fairly simplistic CP so I am going with 6 buttons per player, Player 1/2 start and Player 1/2 credit, and a pause button (does a double pause equal play or do you need play button?).  What other “essential” buttons would you recommend?  I have seen volume up/down that I really like, is that easily mapped?

4)Trackball:  This probably depends on the encoder but I want a left and right mouse button.  No real question here I guess.

I am sure the answers to these will spark a million other questions.  Thanks in advance.

[javeryh]

Welcome to the forum!

1.  You can't go wrong with any of the choices you listed.  I use Ultimarc encoders but only because that's what I'm used to.  Just make sure whatever you choose can support enough inputs you plan to use.

2.  This is really personal preference.  If you are making a 2 player panel I would personally recommend using 2 U360s - they can be mapped however you like and you never have to worry about switching from 4-way to 8-way or even to Qbert controls.  It's all automatic.  Some people can't stand not having microswitches though. 

3.  You press pause a second time to resume play so only one button is needed.  I always put 4 admin buttons on a CP - P1 Start, P2 Start, Pause and Exit.  If I need to change settings (which is almost never) I pull out the keyboard.  You can also "shift" lesser used functions if there are other things like "tab" and "enter" you feel you have to have on your CP.

I hope this helps.   

[u_rebelscum]

1 & 4: If you want TB and joysticks one one encoder, minipac has been a good choice, but even more flexible is the new U-HID encoder.

But note that most TBs now come in (or at least have) a USB model, so you don't need an optipac/optiwiz type encoder for them.  So if you get a TB USB model, you can go with just a keywiz or ipac.  The ultimarc and GGG usb TBs default come with great encoders (well, they basically come with u-hid nano and optiwiz, respectively), but be careful about the happs usb TB; people here have had problems with happs usb board that is supposed to be fixed with newer boards, but the older usb boards can be out there.

2. Yeap, very personal preference.  Is feel important to you?  If so, what do you like?  Is circle feel okay in 4-way games, or do you need it diamond or even plus shaped?  Personally, I like the u360 and it's switching maps.  If you do go 2 u360s, you might not need an encoder; depends if the other emus can take joystick/gamepad inputs, and maybe if they can be remapped.

3. Rather than shifting for enter in mame, I just remap mame so mame also takes player 1's button 1 for "UI Select" (what mame calls the UI key that people are talking about when we say "enter").  Of course, other emus might need enter (or not).

[mr_doles]

I have done a lot of reading on the U360 today (probably should have done some work at work, oh well) and I really like the way they appear to work.  The USB Trackballs did catch my eye as well.  Looks like I'll need to add a USB hub to my list.

Looks like I am going to have to do some more playing with MAME and what you can do with it.

[BASS!]

If you get a usb hub, don't scrimp. Buy a powered one by a big name like dlink. If you use a smart strip or other smart switching power brick your usb devices may still draw power and cause it to think that your machine is on, and not shut down your other components.

[clhug]

3.  You press pause a second time to resume play so only one button is needed.  I always put 4 admin buttons on a CP - P1 Start, P2 Start, Pause and Exit.  If I need to change settings (which is almost never) I pull out the keyboard.  You can also "shift" lesser used functions if there are other things like "tab" and "enter" you feel you have to have on your CP.

Regarding the pause and exit buttons, I don't remember where I got this idea, somewhere else on these forums I suspect, but I have 2 pause buttons, and the Exit is to hold one of the pause buttons down and then press the other pause button.  Still the same number of physical buttons, but prevents players from accidentally hitting the Exit button in the middle of a hot game.  I don't remember how I physically accomplished this but I use the I-Pac and I believe it's tied to the "shift" function where I have one of the pause button inputs programmed as the shift key and the "shifted" function of the other pause button being the Exit keystroke.

[cmoses]

I have recently gone through most of your same questions in building my first MAME cabinet.  I did a lot of reading on here and found a lot of very good information.  Here are the choices that I made and I do not regret any choices I have made.  I found an old cabinet that had been converted a few times and was in need of some TLC.  It contained a 2 player control panel with each player having 2 buttons and a player 1 and player 2 start buttons.  I knew that this control panel would get me started, but I would eventually want to add more buttons for each player as well as a trackball.

I originally purchased a MiniPAC from Ultimarc.  This enabled me to hook up the control panel that was on my cabinet and begin configuring and working with it.  The MiniPAC is very easy to install and with the wiring harness there is no need to solder as everything connected with quick connects.  I connected the joysticks and buttons to the MiniPAC.  I configured the shift function of the MiniPAC to allow P1 Credit, P2 Credit and Pause.  So I was able to do everything I needed just by adding the MiniPAC to my existing control panel.

After spending some time playing around with MAME, I realized that the 8 way WICO joysticks that came with the cabinet were nice, but did not work perfect for all the games.  I had researched the U360 and it seemed like the best option for my small control panel.  I ordered one to test and received it and replace joystick 1.  It configured easy and with Fat Finger's plugin it works for all the games by loading in the correct mapping.  Everything worked great, 4 way, 8 way, diagonal, etc.  I have since ordered a second U360 and light blue ball tops to match the cabinet theme.

Buttons are a personal preference, but I would agree with most on here that the fewer the better.  Control panels with fewer buttons look less cluttered.  I only have a player 1 start and player 2 start as extra buttons.  With the MiniPAC the player 1 start is the shift button so I hold it down to give buttons other functions.

P1 and P2 = ESCAPE
P1 and Button A = Player 1 Credit
P1 and Button B = Player 2 Credit
P1 and Button C = Pause

With these minimum amount of buttons I can navigate my front end and play games so I am set.

I just recently added side buttons to my cabinet to play pinball games.  I connected these to my MiniPAC in the available slots.

I plan to add a trackball next, so I do not have any information on that subject as of yet.

[javeryh]

3.  You press pause a second time to resume play so only one button is needed.  I always put 4 admin buttons on a CP - P1 Start, P2 Start, Pause and Exit.  If I need to change settings (which is almost never) I pull out the keyboard.  You can also "shift" lesser used functions if there are other things like "tab" and "enter" you feel you have to have on your CP.

Regarding the pause and exit buttons, I don't remember where I got this idea, somewhere else on these forums I suspect, but I have 2 pause buttons, and the Exit is to hold one of the pause buttons down and then press the other pause button.  Still the same number of physical buttons, but prevents players from accidentally hitting the Exit button in the middle of a hot game.  I don't remember how I physically accomplished this but I use the I-Pac and I believe it's tied to the "shift" function where I have one of the pause button inputs programmed as the shift key and the "shifted" function of the other pause button being the Exit keystroke.

You could always "shift" the ESC/Exit command to avoid exiting in the middle of a game but that adds confusion.  I know it's not rocket science but you will still be explaining how it works to everyone that comes over to play. 

[clhug]

3.  You press pause a second time to resume play so only one button is needed.  I always put 4 admin buttons on a CP - P1 Start, P2 Start, Pause and Exit.  If I need to change settings (which is almost never) I pull out the keyboard.  You can also "shift" lesser used functions if there are other things like "tab" and "enter" you feel you have to have on your CP.

Regarding the pause and exit buttons, I don't remember where I got this idea, somewhere else on these forums I suspect, but I have 2 pause buttons, and the Exit is to hold one of the pause buttons down and then press the other pause button.  Still the same number of physical buttons, but prevents players from accidentally hitting the Exit button in the middle of a hot game.  I don't remember how I physically accomplished this but I use the I-Pac and I believe it's tied to the "shift" function where I have one of the pause button inputs programmed as the shift key and the "shifted" function of the other pause button being the Exit keystroke.

You could always "shift" the ESC/Exit command to avoid exiting in the middle of a game but that adds confusion.  I know it's not rocket science but you will still be explaining how it works to everyone that comes over to play. 

I created a small cheat sheet that describes how to navigate the MameWah front end and how to use the pause and exit functions.  It's under the glass so it's pretty nice and neat on the cabinet.

[u_rebelscum]

...P1 and P2 = ESCAPE...

I hate, hate, HATE this combo.  Far too easy to accidentally exit a game.  It was the default for a couple different products.  My brother got a hotrodse and then introduced me to mame.  We were in heaven, playing games we played as kids, for about ten or fifteen minutes, when in the heat of one such game at a hard part, the game exited.  WTF!!!  Fingers still twitching to play, heart still pounding with adrenalin and we're looking at windows desktop!  We deside that game must be still buggy, and try others.  Soon the accident happens again!  Took us a minute or twenty of searching to find out what was happening, and then remap so it didn't happen again.  Twenty minutes we would have been playing menories.  And had two games killed in the prime of life, of sharing fun, of bonding time we don't very much of, in an instant, of me pressing P2 button with my left hand at the same time he pressed the P1 button with his right..

Once is too many times, twice within half an hour is terrible user interface, worthy of the trash bin.

If you don't play co-op games, or any game that both players can die at the same time, or you and your friends are nice pollite gentemen that will always allow the other to press their player button first "no, after you", fine.  Otherwise, this is the worst combo to exit ever, even equal to p1b1 & p2b2.

IMHO.   

I say don't do it.  I have no idea how others who use this can stand it, but some do.

[Ginsu Victim]

...P1 and P2 = ESCAPE...

I hate, hate, HATE this combo.

I agree. I don't know who thought it was a good idea.

[Todd H]

Gotta go with javeryh on this one. I went with six admin buttons myself...P1 & P2 coin, P1 & P2 start, one pause button, and one exit button. I wanted pretty much anyone to be able to play games on my cabinet without getting confused or accidently hitting two buttons at once and exiting a game. It's your decision though. Go with what you think is best.

[mr_doles]

Got to agree with Todd H (and not because I am a Todd H as well  ), but after lots of reading, looking at control boards, and some hard pontificating, I like the idea of the 6 button (p1/2 coin, p1/2 start, and pause).  I may end up putting the p1/2 coin buttons where the coin slots would be on an arcade machine.  Less is more in my opinion.  But then again I may start building this thing and end up with more.

I have done more reading then actually working on this thing, I guess I am scared to start and not be able to go back if I don't plan it out right to start with.