Sega Genesis - We Bring The Arcade Experience Home

[Martijn]

its pretty funny and retro, just wanted to share. People buy consoles to play arcade games and using less space.
We build arcade machines taking more space to play them

[venkman]

haha brilliant.

that kid has some collection of cabinet machines!
and they got his golden axe 

.. weird !

[DaveMMR]

Hehe.  I remember that commercial.  Back then even, I was thinking "the Genensis is pretty cool but I'd rather have the cabinets like Dave Litney".

[Martijn]

is it true that the genesis games are arcade perfect. titles like ghouls and ghosts and golden axe, hang on

like in the commercial?

[venkman]

the left and right screens look different in colour - but then he says they are the same.
i think the actual games are exactly the same.

[Martijn]

From Wiki

Ports of Ghouls 'n Ghosts were released in Europe in 1989 for the Amstrad CPC, Commodore Amiga, Atari ST, Commodore 64 and ZX Spectrum. These ports were all handled by Software Creations and all omit a great deal of detail from the arcade version even on very capable 16-Bit machines like the Amiga (smaller sprites with chopped animation and color rendition, inferior quality background graphics with no parallax scrolling, reduced gameplay area, stuttering frame-rate, and much more).

A Mega Drive/Genesis port of Ghouls 'n Ghosts was also released by Sega in 1989 in Japan, North America and Europe. Programmed by Yuji Naka, the Mega Drive /Genesis version omits color and background graphic detail from the arcade version, as well as the the opening intro. This version was re-released as a handheld TV game with Street Fighter II ': Special Champion Edition in 2005 and as a downloadable Virtual Console game for the Wii in 2007 .

Sega also released a Master System port in 1990. This 8-bit version features an exclusive power-up system that allows player to enter secret areas and upgrade parts of their armor. This includes helmets which gives the player access to new weapons and magic spells; chest armor which extends the player's energy points; and boots which increases the player's speed.

The Supergrafx port of Daimakaimura released by NEC Avenue in 1990 was one of the five games released for the short-lived system.

A pixel perfect version of Daimakaimura was released by Capcom in 1994 for the Sharp X68000.

In 1998, Capcom released Capcom Generation 2 for the PlayStation and Saturn in Japan, a compilation which included Ghouls 'n Ghosts along with Ghosts 'n Goblins and Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts.

The PlayStation version of this compilation was released as a bundle in Europe with three other volumes titled Capcom Generations (in plural) under the title of Capcom Generations: Chronicles of Arthur. Capcom later released in North America Capcom Classics Collection Vol. 1 for the PlayStation 2 and Xbox in 2005 and Capcom Classics Collection: Reloaded for the PlayStation Portable in 2006, which includes all the Capcom Generations titles.

[DaveMMR]

is it true that the genesis games are arcade perfect. titles like ghouls and ghosts and golden axe, hang on

like in the commercial?

They were always missing something.  It's always the little things.  Even later in the Genesis (Mega Drive) cycle, the port of After Burner II was missing scaling and the parts where you land on the runway. 

[Malenko]

the only arcade games I can think of that were arcade perfect in the home were the NeoGeo games, because well...it was the same hardware AND software.

I remember the Street Fighters and Mortal Kombats were damn close on SNES though

[Martijn]

no blood in snes though

genesis was without blood by default but with a key combination during startup logo enabled blood

[Ginsu Victim]

Only MK1 was missing blood. The rest of the series had it on SNES.

[Malenko]

no blood in snes though

genesis was without blood by default but with a key combination during startup logo enabled blood

yeah I know ABACABB or DULLARD on the sega CD version.  fatalities were altered too but the game itself was VERY close, that was my point =)


 I guess Super Mario Bros on NES was arcade perfect *shrugs*

[isucamper]

is it true that the genesis games are arcade perfect. titles like ghouls and ghosts and golden axe, hang on

like in the commercial?

Absolutely not.  The Genesis (and pretty much all other consoles) had some pretty big limitations that always ended up ruining arcade ports.  Sprites were smaller, colors were muted, sound wasn't as good.  It couldn't do any real scaling for games like Afterburner (although the SNES could with it's snazzy Mode 7 effect, and later, the Sega CD would add real scaling to the Genesis hardware).  Golden Axe was only 1 player for crying out loud!

Some games, like Altered Beast, were pretty close to arcade perfect because the arcade hardware was similar to the Genesis.  But for the most part, this was not the case. 

[Ginsu Victim]

 I guess Super Mario Bros on NES was arcade perfect *shrugs*

There are slight differences in level layout and item placement. Also, there's no Level -1 glitch.

[ChadTower]

the only arcade games I can think of that were arcade perfect in the home were the NeoGeo games, because well...it was the same hardware AND software.

It wasn't.  The home console didn't have nearly the horsepower of the arcade motherboards... so they implemented the difference on the AES cartridges instead.  That's why AES games back then cost so damn much more than MVS games.  The end game was nearly identical but the hardware was definitely not the same.

Especially once the AES games moved to CD.   

[Malenko]

the only arcade games I can think of that were arcade perfect in the home were the NeoGeo games, because well...it was the same hardware AND software.

It wasn't.  The home console didn't have nearly the horsepower of the arcade motherboards... so they implemented the difference on the AES cartridges instead.  That's why AES games back then cost so damn much more than MVS games.  The end game was nearly identical but the hardware was definitely not the same.

Especially once the AES games moved to CD.   

what in the hell are you talking about? the data is bit for bit the same. you can flash proms for the aes with MVS data and it'll play. the only difference in the hardware was the BIOS itself. even the AES controllers plugged into the neo geo boards for petes sake.

Take Neo Geo Expert off your resume.

[RandyT]

Take Neo Geo Expert off your resume.

Beat me to it.  The hardware specs were exactly the same, but the pinout was apparently changed to keep operators from using the home carts for the commercial machines.  The damned carts were so expensive because they were packed with memory, which cost a fortune in those days.

The SNES, on the other hand, used to pack extra processing power in some of the carts (Starfox, for example) which also drove the cost of those titles up.  You might be confusing the two.

RandyT

[ChadTower]

You said "hardware and software".

Hardware is not identical.  That is my statement.

[Malenko]

I guess Super Mario Bros on NES was arcade perfect *shrugs*

There are slight differences in level layout and item placement.

cool, good to know, I had no idea thought it was the same.

You said "hardware and software".
Hardware is not identical.  That is my statement.

and your statement is  wrong. the hardware is EXACTLY the same. the pin outs are different so you cant put an AES cart directly into an MVS and vice versa.

[ChadTower]

You said "hardware and software".

Hardware is not identical.  That is my statement.

and your statement is  wrong. the hardware is EXACTLY the same. the pin outs are different so you cant put an AES cart directly into an MVS and vice versa.

Then show us an MVS with video composite out.  I'm sure the Neo Geo collectors would love to see it.  And I bet all those Supergun builders would love it too.  As well as those folks who went to the trouble of collecting all 8-9 MVS revisions that have varying features on them.

[Malenko]

Then show us an MVS with video composite out.  I'm sure the Neo Geo collectors would love to see it.  And I bet all those Supergun builders would love it too.  As well as those folks who went to the trouble of collecting all 8-9 MVS revisions that have varying features on them.

ok.


the video output has little to do with the hardware being used to run the game.  the different MVS revisions? you mean some had memory card slots some only had memory card pinouts some had both, some had audio jacks some didnt, some had 1 slot some had 2,4 or more? Still the same hardware

the MVS had:
Motorola 68000 running at 12 MHz ( the TMP68HC000 made by toshiba counts because its a clone of the original), a  Zilog Z80 running at 4 MHz that acted as both a coprocessor and an audio controller, and the  Yamaha YM2610 sound chip

guess what the AES had inside?  You almost have me wanting to dig my 2slot and my AES out of the closet and crack them open for side by side pix. quick fun fact, the memory cards for the AES worked in the arcades.....wonder why?


at least you didnt post a fail picture.

“Correct a wise man and he will thank you, correct a fool and he will hate you.”

[shardian]

I know almost nothing about Neo Geo, but I knew you can reconfigure carts and/or systems to be intercompatible.

[missioncontrol]

I guess Super Mario Bros on NES was arcade perfect *shrugs*

NES Super Mario was way off from the Arcade version... especially the later levels

[SavannahLion]

quick fun fact, the memory cards for the AES worked in the arcades.....wonder why?

That was a huge desirability point with my friends and I. Seeing the cabinet with the cardslot, finding out what it was for, then the expressions on our faces as we discovered just how much the home version cost.

Chad, NeoGeo being identical to the arcade was one of the biggest selling points at the time. It was true the pinouts were altered, but if I recall, it was done to prevent arcade operators from taking the cheaper (?!) carts and using them in their cabinets. Coming around, that was how that NGF ---uvula--- started his business, by altering the pinouts of MVS and AES carts and selling both carts to the various markets.

[Malenko]

I guess Super Mario Bros on NES was arcade perfect *shrugs*

There are slight differences in level layout and item placement.

cool, good to know, I had no idea thought it was the same.

I guess Super Mario Bros on NES was arcade perfect *shrugs*

NES Super Mario was way off from the Arcade version... especially the later levels

yeah, I know now :p Got any specifics? You almost have me wanting to fire up SMB and see the "new" levels. I never got very far in the arcade version.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Only MK1 was missing blood. The rest of the series had it on SNES.

You may want to check out these great video from RetrowareTV.com with direct comparisons of console vs. arcade.

Street Fighter series video:


Mortal Kombat series videos:





~ DeLuSioNaL

[missioncontrol]

I guess Super Mario Bros on NES was arcade perfect *shrugs*

There are slight differences in level layout and item placement.

cool, good to know, I had no idea thought it was the same.

I guess Super Mario Bros on NES was arcade perfect *shrugs*

NES Super Mario was way off from the Arcade version... especially the later levels

yeah, I know now :p Got any specifics? You almost have me wanting to fire up SMB and see the "new" levels. I never got very far in the arcade version.

if you want some new Mario Bros. levels, you might want to try the New Mario Bros for the DS. I am hooked on it right now...

As for your question, I got something I'm working on that might answer it...

Stay tuned

[Jack Burton]

I'm gonna give Chad the benefit the doubt and ask this:

Even though the ROM data on the cartridges was the same between AES and MVS, were the processors or other parts in the various AES and the MVS versions significantly different?  Kind of like how some Xbox 360 models use a different processor from another, yet they can play the same games and use the same accessories.  

Or maybe a better example would be the Genesis 1, 2, and 3.  I'm pretty sure the Genesis 3 is a completely different board inside than the Genesis 1, but they play the same games and use the same accessories.

Also, the Playstation 2 and Ps2 slim would be a good example of what I'm getting at here.

[Malenko]

if you want some new Mario Bros. levels, you might want to try the New Mario Bros for the DS. I am hooked on it right now...

As for your question, I got something I'm working on that might answer it...

Stay tuned

got it, love it. Actually bought the cart even though I have a cycloDS

I'm gonna give Chad the benefit the doubt and ask this:

Even though the ROM data on the cartridges was the same between AES and MVS, were the processors or other parts in the various AES and the MVS versions significantly different?  Kind of like how some Xbox 360 models use a different processor from another, yet they can play the same games and use the same accessories.  

Or maybe a better example would be the Genesis 1, 2, and 3.  I'm pretty sure the Genesis 3 is a completely different board inside than the Genesis 1, but they play the same games and use the same accessories.

Also, the Playstation 2 and Ps2 slim would be a good example of what I'm getting at here.

no, that was his attempt at backpeddling. He implied that the AES carts had chips or other hardware in them that made the AES versions as good as the MVS versions:

It wasn't.  The home console didn't have nearly the horsepower of the arcade motherboards... so they implemented the difference on the AES cartridges instead.  That's why AES games back then cost so damn much more than MVS games.  The end game was nearly identical but the hardware was definitely not the same.

The AES (home mobo) and MVS (arcade mobo) had the exact same CPUs a Motorola 68000 or Toshiba TMP68HC000 (exact same processor) , a Zilog Z80, and a Yamaha YM2610 .


The carts were expensive because the manufacturing cost was high, the pinouts were changed because at the time the AES carts were cheaper (not MORE EXPENSIVE Chad) then the MVS carts and SNK didnt want Arcade OPs buying AES carts and putting them in the arcades. You can get a UniBIOS in your MVS mobos and flip the switch for AES mode and play the AES version of the game. 

The XBOX360s have the same processors and internals (HD and DVD drives vary but have the same function), just with a better die process to reduce heat, some have newer and better heatsinks but the basic hardware is the same, Same RISC processors and everything else.

Now for the genesis, despite board changes and board layout changes, again the basic hardware remains the same. Motorolla 68000 and a Zylog Z80 for a sound controller(I only know this because its the same as the Neo Geo , lol) and 2 sound chips the Yamaha YM2612 for FM and the texas instuments SN76489 for a PSG  The only "major difference" between Genesis 1,2,and 3 was the G3 didnt have mode 4 support so you couldnt play master system games with a converter.

some info pulled from:
http://www.genesiscollective.com/faq.php?myfaq=yes&id_cat=3&categories=General+Genesis+Information#16
because quite frankly I have better things to do then memorize all the 16 bit hardware out there

without getting into the same thing with the PS2 not matter when it came out or how big it is, they all came with the 64-bit "Emotion Engine" clocked at 294.912 MHz CPU and the "Graphics Synthesizer" clocked at 147 MHz GPU

now for "real hardware" changes some later versions of the PS2 slim had built in ethernet ports and of course had external power supplies and the lack of the HD port but none of that has any effect  on how the system runs the game.

[JackTucky]

Please stop proving Chad wrong.  The internet can't handle that. 

[brandon]

Why didn't they just make the home Neogeo carts hardcoded to  free play so that any operator that tried to use one couldn't make any money? that seems like a simple enough solution to me

[protokatie]

Why didn't they just make the home Neogeo carts hardcoded to  free play so that any operator that tried to use one couldn't make any money? that seems like a simple enough solution to me

Would be an excellent solution today, but to get custom ROMs mastered back then would have cost a fortune. Economies of scale kinda issues. It was cheaper to make PCBs for each system and use the same ROMs than to make 2 separate ROMs for the 2 types of game systems.

Hence why they went with the "folded over" and different pinout PCB for the home model as opposed to making new ROM chips (That would be like trying to publish 2 games with approx half the audience for each game).

[brandon]

Would be an excellent solution today, but to get custom ROMs mastered back then would have cost a fortune. Economies of scale kinda issues. It was cheaper to make PCBs for each system and use the same ROMs than to make 2 separate ROMs for the 2 types of game systems.

Hence why they went with the "folded over" and different pinout PCB for the home model as opposed to making new ROM chips (That would be like trying to publish 2 games with approx half the audience for each game).

That makes sense.. but it seems like changing the pinout isn't really a solution at all when you consider how quickly stuff gets bootlegged.  A pinout adapter would be a piece of cake compared to reverse engineering hardware and decrypting roms.

[protokatie]

Would be an excellent solution today, but to get custom ROMs mastered back then would have cost a fortune. Economies of scale kinda issues. It was cheaper to make PCBs for each system and use the same ROMs than to make 2 separate ROMs for the 2 types of game systems.

Hence why they went with the "folded over" and different pinout PCB for the home model as opposed to making new ROM chips (That would be like trying to publish 2 games with approx half the audience for each game).

That makes sense.. but it seems like changing the pinout isn't really a solution at all when you consider how quickly stuff gets bootlegged.  A pinout adapter would be a piece of cake compared to reverse engineering hardware and decrypting roms.

Quick answer:
Cheap deterrent.

Long answer:
In 1990 (or so) I don't think there was as much worry about ROM piracy as there is today (or atleast more recently). Many companies (cf. Nintendo) tried ways of making lock-out chips and failed. I think SNK was more worried about the basic problems. I wonder if in 1990 there were any arcade operators who has a means by which to use MVS carts in cabs... Meh. Not meaning to belittle you, just talking about how a company needs to accept that there is only so much they can do to prevent theft. (One of those stupid economics thing, where theft is built into the level of protection as compared to price)

[Minwah]

genesis was without blood by default but with a key combination during startup logo enabled blood

I remember...it was ABACABB.

Wierd that I can remember that as although I wanted MK, I never owned it for the Mega Drive. It's a pretty good conversion but does pale in comparison after playing the arcade version IIRC.