u360 deadzone

[system01]

Ive searched, but still have not found help for this.

I have two u360s and am having a hell of a time with the deadzone.  Namely Mr Do's Castle.  I have the problem (mentioned in other threads) where if I let go and return to center, it seems to click to the opposite direction.  Its a rebound issue.  I have the small circular restrictor and (the current) hard springs.

Ive played with the mame.ini deadzone all the way to 1.0 but it still happens.

I know I could edit the ustick file for a wider zone, but Im hoping for a better way to open it up a bit.  I dont want a wider ustick zone on all games, and I dont feel like adding a wider map for each specific game.  I will if I have to, but dont wanna.

BTW: this is a vertical-only cab, so analog and quick kung-fu moves are not necessary.  Mostly older games.

TIA

[TheShanMan]

I think dead zone only applies if you're using the u360 in analog mode. If you're using 2/4/8 way maps then I don't think dead zone will come into play at all. You'll have to alter your maps. That's what I've been in the process of doing as well, because the default dead zone (3x3 cells) is barely larger than the slop of the joystick. I've been playing with either 5x5 dead zones or 6x6 dead zones. Haven't decided between the two yet, but that definitely makes it better.

If you're looking for different behavior for just a few games and you use mala as your FE, you could use fatfinger's u360 plugin to set the maps. You can have basic rules for applying maps but override with game-specific maps.

[system01]

If you're looking for different behavior for just a few games and you use mala as your FE, you could use fatfinger's u360 plugin to set the maps. You can have basic rules for applying maps but override with game-specific maps.

Right.  Im using the plugin and the maps are working properly (in mala), I was hoping for a way to "fine tune" it open a little; ex: mame.ini to .4.  I didnt want to alter the u360 maps cos the resolution seems so low.  Like you said, 3x3 is small, but 5x5 seems soooo much larger.  Almost... too large.  I havent played with the maps yet - at least in normal cab operation - , but I like your suggestions.

Have you opened deadzone in all maps, minus analog and 49 way?  Im using all the OE maps cept a corrected qbert map.  And did you mean 5x5 and 7x7 deadzones?

Like I said, these are a lot of older games so precision from center isnt a huge deal.

Thanks

[TheShanMan]

I wish resolution on maps was larger too actually. For 4 way and 4 way diagonal for instance, you have to have those sticky cells at the "dividing lines", but it would be better if the grid was 18x18 (twice the resolution) so you could actually change those sticky cells into the 2 directions. Sticky cells to me seem like a hack to solve a problem that should have been solved by increasing the map resolution.

Yes, I meant 5x5 and 7x7 dead zones (in other words, increase the "radius" by 1 or 2, respectively, leaving "active" zones with a thickness of 2 or 1). Yeah, it does seem huge when you look at the map and gives you kind of a vague feeling of disappointment in the u360 (as I kind of mentioned in another thread), but functionally it is a lot better.

By the way, I should clarify that I have circular restrictors installed, so if you have no restrictors then YMMV.

[2600]

There is plenty of resolution on the U360.  What you want to do is change where the "zones" are located.  There is nothing forcing you to keep the grids where they are currently located

You could also try using a stronger spring

[TheShanMan]

The reason I don't think there's enough resolution is because you can't split the map in half. The number of cells needs to be a multiple of 6, so you can cut it in thirds or cut it in half.

And for the record I'm using the heavy spring.

[2600]

and you have tried to change the size of each cell?

[TheShanMan]

Yes, my descriptions of what I've been doing illustrate that (dead zones of 5x5 and 7x7 are what I'm trying to decide between). That doesn't change the fact that you can't cut them in half. The grid is either 3x3 or 9x9 - neither is evenly divisible by 2.

[2600]

Ok, I've said it a couple different ways, but I don't think you understand what I am saying. 

Have you ever looked at the map file without using the GUI?

[system01]

Whoa, 2600 might be on to something Shan.  If you open the map as a txt theres a value for map size, then the cell values as rows.

I changed 4-way map size to 18, then tried to open it in Ultramap.  It gave me an error saying "map size must be 9".

So Im guessing - if I wanted 18 map size - I also have to fill in 18 values per row.  And then I never use the GUI again.(?)

Are there software limits to this?

Ill try it in a bit, Im making an Excel matrix with conditional formatting so I can copy/paste some experiment maps easily.

Thx 2600!

[TheShanMan]

Yeah, your point definitely wasn't coming across. But if that does work, it would be really cool! Too bad the UI apparently doesn't support it, but editing text files is better than nothing!

Let us know how it goes, system01!

[2600]

FYI, I'm not sure, but I don't think you can change the mapsize.  What you can change is the MapBorderLocations.

The MapBorderLocations are the spacing of that nice grid in the GUI.  Imagine if that grid was like a column in excel.  In Excel, You can change the size of the column with the mouse.  So imagine in the Ultramap gui if you could change the size of the of that those first cells to equal your deadzone.  You can pick whatever size you want.  Then you can use all the other cells for whatever you want.  Can't do it in the gui, but you can do it by editing the text file.  This is just one way editing the text file is useful.  I'm sure others may have other ideas.

[AndyWarne]

Thats correct, the number of cells in the map cant be changed. But the locations of the cell borders can, so the cells can be made larger or smaller.
The maps were never intended to have a high resolution. For that you can use analog mode. Someone mentioned an 18 x 18 map, that would be impractical, 324 cells to set, and would exceed the capabilities of the microcontroller chip on the unit.
Adjusting the cell border locations should be a good way to increase the "switch" dead-zone by a fractional-cell amount.
Andy

[TheShanMan]

Andy, I mentioned 18x18 and 12x12, and the reason I did is because with 9x9 you can't split the map into even quarters (for 4 way mode) without either using sticky cells (which are a less than ideal solution) or filling those border cells with one of the directions, thus shifting the border away slightly from where it should be. It may seem like a minor point, but don't we all take the time to precisely mount our joysticks to eliminate any rotation? That precision just gets canceled out by the "rotation" caused by shifting the borders.

I really think the product should handle this better. It handles 8 way great (because it's evenly divisible by 3) but not as great for 4 way (not evenly divisible by 2). Maybe a 12x12 map would be within the capabilities of the microcontroller? Heck, even if we could make maps of other sizes as long as they're 9x9 or less, I'd be happy!

Now that I've finished ranting, it seems like this could be overcome with the ability to adjust the cell borders (a poor workaround, but a workaround nonetheless). Hopefully that proves true.

[system01]

Damn!  I just made this uber-bitchin XLS file that spits out UM files of 18 x 18.  I dont have 360s to play with at work so I thought id make this and go crazy when I got home.
 

I noticed that 8-way Eazy already contains this:

MapBorderLocations=30,58,86,114,142,170,198,226

What does this exactly change?
I see theres 256 gradations.  Does this mean 1st column is 30, 2nd, 3rd, 4th -  8th are 28 and the 9th being 30 again?  And then I assume that this is both for x & y.

Huh, I think I just answered my question...

Ill play around tonight.

[system01]

Shan-
Theoretically - if I understand this correctly - you can get rid of the sticky zones.
Looking at only the top-middle area (maybe on a Qbert map):

   30W     5N   25N   <--Top
|           |    |      |
|           |    |      |
|           |    |      |
|           |    |      |
|           |    |      |
   C  C  C  C  C  C
   C  C  C  C  C  C     <--Center

Youd have 2 cols on one side, but the total area would be split down the middle.  Im also wondering if you can take a middle cell to zero.  But since it goes up to 256, and not 255, Im guessing no.  Maybe 1-wide would work?

[Ummon]

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but there is a little bit of play in the stick mechanism itself - you can shake the handle - and at least in analog mode makes for unintended movement if the stick isn't 'centered'. Of course, this also keeps the stick from being centered on the map, not to mention that this can shift about, depending on where the stick physically settles in the base.

[Martijn]

i am having the same issue with my left u360, the 2nd one is more centered overall. when i jiggle the 2nd one or twist the oval stick it would center nice most of the time

the left one is making a oval round around the center when i twist the oval handle

i test this under ultimap and in analog mode. i have circular restrictor and hard spring.

i checked the magnet and its connecting ok and flat. but when i turn the oval handle i can see its not making a nice flat circle, it weaves up and down.. 

[Visitor Q]

I'm  not looking forward too all this.  Do all the U360's have this issue?

[javeryh]

I've noticed playing Donkey Kong or any of the Pac-man games that sometimes when reversing direction quickly it seems like I lose control and the character moves in the opposite direction of what I intended.  I never really thought much about it until seeing this thread - it's annoying but it doesn't happen all of the time either.  I guess I'll look into a fix...

[TheShanMan]

Enlarge the deadzone.

[headkaze]

Can I suggest you try my Mame Analog Joystick Map Editor as it gives you realtime feedback on your joystick position in the map so it should show you if the deadzone in the default configs are big enough for you or not.

[Visitor Q]

Is all this correctable though the config? I certainly am not looking for issues when I get these...

[DaveStall]

You can easily correct the issue by editing the U360 maps with the utility provided by Ultimarc.  If you prefer to use MAME's joystick mapping function, then headkaze's utility can be used.  Either way, it is about a five minute process to enlarge the dead zone if needed.

Dave

[TheShanMan]

Is all this correctable though the config?

Yeah, it's almost like you didn't read the posts by me and headkaze! Or else you didn't understand us?

[Martijn]

Can I suggest you try my Mame Analog Joystick Map Editor as it gives you realtime feedback on your joystick position in the map so it should show you if the deadzone in the default configs are big enough for you or not.

ill try it

i thought someone posted good maps for the u360 for many games . i cant find it anymore

[Visitor Q]

Is all this correctable though the config?

Yeah, it's almost like you didn't read the posts by me and headkaze! Or else you didn't understand us?

I read it and saw the suggestion but no one posted that it fixed their problem.

[TheShanMan]

OK. I wasn't throwing out a wild suggestion. That's what worked for me. The fact that it fixed the problem for me was implied.