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Author Topic: Plotting a better "Multi-Jamma"  (Read 2786 times)

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Numbski

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Plotting a better "Multi-Jamma"
« on: October 23, 2008, 09:41:14 am »
So....I've been looking at Multi-Jamma devices for ages now, and I have run into the age-old conundrum with them, which is that they don't support kick harnesses, and certainly not all of the mame inputs.

I'm not an electrical engineer, and I'm only minimally competent at electronics.  Someone over at Shoryuken turned me on to the Arduino boards (http://arduino.cc), and the neat thing about them is that interface up nicely using USB or serial, and they're not difficult to program.

So here's what I'm thinking:

Take a piece of breadboard, and if such a beast exists, find an 80 pin interface header (I was thinking EIDE at first, but that's 50 pins, with an 80 conductor wire, isn't it?), and at my last count, JAMMA has 48 pins that are really needed to switch inputs (4 redundant grounds at the bottom and the keys are excluded).  Then we have the imaginary player 3 and player 4 inputs, and for the sake of sanity, we'll presume each has a joystick (4), and 6 shots, start, and coin - so 12 x 2, so additional 24.  That gives us 72, and if I actually found an 80 pin interface header, this would be perfect.  So step 1 would be to take the 80 conductor ribbon cable, and wire it into your cabinet just as you would your jamma harness - your jamma harness will be one of many inputs later on.

On the breadboard, all 80 inputs will need to have traces.  I don't look forward to this part, but let's pretend this is easy. :)

Elsewhere on the board, these 80 traces are going to be tied into a bank of bus switches, like this one:

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FS/FSTD32211.pdf

That one only supports 48 lines, so I'm not sure if they 80 line or greater version or not, I'm hoping they do.  The way the bus switch works in simple - that particular model has two full banks of switches, and by grounding a single pin, all of the pins in that bank are switched on.  So we simply tie those two pins together, and ground our new line, and now that bank of pins is going to our cabinet.

So you would have a bus switch for every game in your cabinet, tie it into the switch bus using a bus switch (heh), and then you only have to ground a single line to get your game on.  You could use a single pole mulit-position switch, or in my case I'm thinking of putting each of my bus switch  "trigger" lines into a digital port on an arduino, allowing me to do further automation.

On the opposite side of each of the bus switches, you would wire either a jamma loom, or a computer, or a console, or whatever.  It would be up to you.

If anyone else here has a bit more experience with this sort of stuff, please chime in.  It looks to me like arduino = $20-ish (optional), 80-pin interface header (who knows...), I'm having a hard time sourcing that particular bus switch, but I'd like to think $10 for each of those - so if I allowed 4 inputs, $40.  The only other thing would be of course getting a board laid out and etched for it.

Am I insane?

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2600

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Re: Plotting a better "Multi-Jamma"
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2008, 10:04:31 am »
A: You plan on switching audio and video with a bus switch?  That's not going to work.

B: The Fairchild part you looked at is an FBGA.  Good luck hand soldering that bad boy.


Numbski

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Re: Plotting a better "Multi-Jamma"
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2008, 10:08:12 am »
Thank you for chiming in, since you're clueful! :)

So for the sake of argument then, the video and audio can't be handled by a bus switch.  What about everything else?  the 5v lines, 12v, and all the switches?

Also, what *could* be used to handle the audio and video?

So far as the form factor, I know.  I'm looking for socketed versions wherever I can find them, if they exist, or even hole-through (which I have seen - so it's plausible).
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Re: Plotting a better "Multi-Jamma"
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2008, 10:19:26 am »

So for the sake of argument then, the video and audio can't be handled by a bus switch.  What about everything else?  the 5v lines, 12v, and all the switches?

No you can not switch the power lines and you forgot -5V.  Either keep them all powered up or use a Relay.


Quote
Also, what *could* be used to handle the audio and video?
Relays or very low resistance switches built for audio and video.

Quote
So far as the form factor, I know.  I'm looking for socketed versions wherever I can find them, if they exist, or even hole-through (which I have seen - so it's plausible).
Plausible and already done, but I don't think the part at Fairchild is really the type of part you are looking for. 

Your title is building a better "multi-jamma", but what are your goals.  What are the problems you are trying to fix from each existing manufacturer?

Numbski

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Re: Plotting a better "Multi-Jamma"
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2008, 07:37:48 pm »
A few things I'm trying  to do:

1.  Handle inputs outside of the Jamma spec, but remain Jamma compatible.

2.  Possibly automate switching using the arduino.

3.  If using the arduino, perhaps implement an on-board credit counter, along with handling the Neo Geo credit counter (mine is missing, so I have a personal interest there).

#1 is my main priority.  I want to be able to handle the kick harnesses, player 3/4 inputs for all of the stuff I have wired in without too much hoopla.  Understand that my electronics knowledge is incredibly limited here, so be gentle.  I'm doing the best I can.  Actually the part about using relays may be very helpful.  I don't know what's out there, but this points me in the right direction.
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Re: Plotting a better "Multi-Jamma"
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2008, 07:49:47 pm »
If all you are trying to do is the kick harness then the simplest method for you is diodes.  Lots of diodes.

Numbski

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Re: Plotting a better "Multi-Jamma"
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2008, 09:05:49 am »
Hmm?  What, just wire them all together, putting a diode inline on each one?
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Re: Plotting a better "Multi-Jamma"
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2008, 09:22:32 am »
Yes.  You could also use something like HC4053 or HC245.  There's other chips that would work, that's just off the top of my head.

You might want to use an IC for the start buttons or coins if you have multiple boards on at the same time.


rusolinio

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Re: Plotting a better "Multi-Jamma"
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2008, 08:50:49 am »
You could use a 6in1 switch board, wire up the -5v lines to each slot, and use piggyback connectors on your cp buttons/switches to connect each of your kick harness'. 

http://www.jammaboards.com/store/6-in-1-multijamma-switcher-pcb/prod_250.html

I'm doing exactly that with ki and ki2 boards in a ki2 cab. I do have an issue with not being able to power off the -5v line when not used, as ive soldered them to the underside of the 6in1 to each leg that requires it directly from the in cab psu. No issues as yet and the games work well, but the slots that have the -5v soldered to them are now only for games that require -5v.

Is this what your after? Or am i way off the mark with what you want?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 07:07:45 pm by rusolinio »

Numbski

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Re: Plotting a better "Multi-Jamma"
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2008, 02:29:23 pm »
I think maybe you're onto it.  The idea is to have one PSU, and multiple systems.  I'm trying to be energy efficient (big freaking CRT notwithstanding), and it seems like a waste to have multiple PSU's powered up and boards fired up when not in use.  Kick harness buttons are the major hurdle so far as I can tell - I'll spend a bit more time digging into your solution here in a bit when I'm not at work. :)
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Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.