BYO Training Devices

[Xiaou2]

 One of my other hobbies is Martial Arts.   Specifically, I train in a
close range Chinese art called  Wing Chun.   (I practice other arts
as well)

 Anyways...  I saw a video of an outdoor "kicking dummy" in a WC video.
However, the poles were wood, and only about 3ft tall.  Merely for kicks only.

 
 I decided to build an indoor version just recently.   Each pole is about 4mm
thick!  I asked for 2mm... but the guy gave me the wrong thickness.  It worked out, because the weight keeps it from sliding.. and there is no way to dent these babies!

 Diameter of 4"  each.  Very expensive      I suspect it Might be possible to
use PVC pipes, and fill them with concrete or sand.   A smaller metal diameter
would have been cheaper... however, would have been more prone to
damage the foot.

 
 Usage:   Stand in between 2 poles, and kick the poles in any order.  IE:
Left, right, and rear.   These can be all low kicks for knee stomps... or even
add mid level kicks for stomach/hip kicks.   You can then use footwork, and
walk around the thing at various angles while choosing various strikes.

 In addition to the kicking... You can add deflective blocks in, by hitting the
poles with your arms.   Very good conditioning.   

 And finally... the center has an Optional punch target.  There are two clips
where you can hang the target from.  In the pic,  there is a small leftover
pipe section as a Punch target.   

 Its not advisable for most people to hit such a thing...as it
takes years to work up to that level.     I recommend a sand filled bag
instead.    I also have a sandbag filled with metal bb's as well.   The
height is adjustable using different clip arrangements.

 The device is about 6'4"  I believe.



 (These Devices are not to be sold, nor used in a
school without my permission)

[Xiaou2]

 The Previous device I built was an addition to a device I had built in the past.

 A  Wall bag set.


 The Original bag set was just the bottom 3 sectional bag.   You could use
it to kick  (virtual shin, knee, hip/gut)... or if you stood on your knees,  you
could use it to punch  (virtual gut, chest, head).

 However, I wanted to be able to stand while punching as well..   So added
another bag on a 2ndary platform above. 

 This now gives me a full spectum of virtual targets at the correct heights:
Shin, knee, hip, gut, chest, head.    As well as allowing two targets to be hit
at one moment in time.   IE:  Punch face+Stomp Kick knee.


 The top section is movable.  Its can slide back and forth almost 1ft.   
This makes the targets adjustable in distances to be more realistic.
Ive added locking pins to keep the thing at the selected distance.
It can also be used freely,  so as you hit it... the thing will slide.
(could use bungee as well.   However, mine is so tight that simply
making it slide takes a Really powerful strike)

 
 Use of these sand filled bags are a completely different experience
from that of a typical heavy bag.   You will get a more Solid impact,
which will develop your power ability much better and faster.   
You also dont have to wait for a swinging bag to be in the
right position to strike it.   Its always ready to be hit.

 Use of  "Dit da Jow"   is recommended.    Its a Chinese lineament that 
seeps into your hands to make them more pliable and more resistant to
pain and injuries.  Helps heal things faster as well.


 The bags are to be hit bare fisted/footed.

 The metal dummy should be Kicked with shoes on..  yet hit with bare
arms.  Fist and strikes are optional... and done at reduced power levels.

[saint]

Those are cool. My sensei talks about how her sensei trained them at times on trees and such outside, not these soft namby-pamby mats we train on today

[HaRuMaN]

someone trimmed this thread...

Saint loves Xiaou2!

[Xiaou2]

 Thanks Saint.   

  Be careful with trees however.   The bumpy surface can actually do a bit
more harm than good if you are training it a certain way.

  I used to go out to the front yard and kick the tree.   However, only
kicked it using the heel or full bottom foot.   Never used a round kick which
if landed... would really hurt the shins or foot top.

 Muay Thai guys use a special type of soft tree called a Bananna tree I believe. It has a smooth surface, and it much more forgiving that a typical tree... yet much more better than a foam pad 


 What I had learned, was that if your fists are not well conditioned... and
if you hit someones head hard enough.. you could break your knuckles...
and or simply couldnt deliver a full power blow because of the pain.

 Similarly... if two arms clash during a brawl... and your arms are not
very dense,  you will be temporarily incapacitated by the severe pains that will
transpire.

 A lot of martial arts have become watered down..  and further reduced and
crippled to a sport.   Yet, for real combat... the training has to be much more old  skool... and much more serious.   As remember... we are talking about
"life or death" here.

[Ummon]

This is why bamboo is a good material to use. Make you very tuff. I wonder, though - and this gets into the esoteric - at some point is it more the development of chi and it's utilization (projection, etc) that protects the body?

[Xiaou2]

 Bamboo is not common in the area where I live...   At least.. not anywhere near
the diameter of the poles I used.

 As for CHI,  most of the real masters Ive seen use CHI as a physical action... and
do not talk about such things as no hit KO's. 


 The very descriptions of CHI are merely to do with Physical actions, and are trained
using physical actions.


 The Idea of the no touch KO is very far fetched for example.  As is the idea that one
can simply take a staving thin child from Ethiopia who meditates year round... and hit
him with Bamboo stick as hard as you can...expecting him to be fine. 

 Chi is a somewhat mystical and poetic word/expression for a process of physical things.


 There are Some examples where CHI is describing unseen etheric energies...
yet these energies are very weak and hard from most to even feel... let alone
be able to use in some sort of physical protective way.    And if you believe
you can control my mind and body... whats to stop me from believing that you do
not?   If you could shoot a Chi blast... Couldnt I erect a CHI nullification field?
The idea of energy CHI as anything but some sort of healing power... is
most likely made up.



 Watch these short Lectures by a leading Tai Chi master.   They are Incredible:
And they reveal many secrets of all arts...

 [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqX8xIcQa1c
[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc8p0AdvLRA&feature=related[/youtube]

[Xiaou2]

 This Universe is filled with things that are unknown and or can not be
explained by current science.    The very idea of Life itself is beyond belief. 
Where did all this stuff come from?  (beginning of it all)

 However... We must realized that there are rules to things.   If there wasnt...
the universe would be shear Chaos,  and would fall apart.

 Use of Logic and Observation can usually discover the real Truths.

[Ummon]

I, for one, am completely shocked we didn't read a 4 page long hard return discussion about chi fireballs and levitation. 

Congrats on not being completely crazy, Xiaou.

I think you're making assumptions about him. Just because someone is this way and talks about certain things doesn't mean they'll be the same with other things, or be into things that may seem similarly 'fringe-y'.

 Bamboo is not common in the area where I live...   At least.. not anywhere near
the diameter of the poles I used.

No, I implied that was one reason this kind of stuff developed in the far east. They saw it's practical (as well as metaphorical) utility as training apparatus.

As for CHI,  most of the real masters Ive seen use CHI as a physical action... and
do not talk about such things as no hit KO's. 


 The very descriptions of CHI are merely to do with Physical actions, and are trained
using physical actions.


 The Idea of the no touch KO is very far fetched for example.  As is the idea that one
can simply take a staving thin child from Ethiopia who meditates year round... and hit
hit with Bamboo stick as hard as you can...expecting him to be fine. 

 Chi is a somewhat mystical and poetic word/expression for a process of physical things.


 There are Some examples where CHI is describing unseen etheric energies...
yet these energies are very weak and hard from most to even feel... let alone
be able to use in some sort of physical protective way.    And if you believe
you can control my mind and body... whats to stop me from believing that you do
not?   If you could shoot a Chi blast... Couldnt I erect a CHI nullification field?
The idea of energy CHI as anything but some sort of healing power... is
most likely made up.

I have some second-hand experience with people who've used 'energy' for different kinds of things, but none of them have involved harming somebody or anything. I saw a chinese medicine practitioner and asked him about this topic in general and he explained some to me about chi, but he seemed to say much as what you said above, with the emphasis on touch being involved - whereas the experience I've had has been both physical and non-physical contact. In some cases, a great distance has been involved.

In that first vid, he covers both approaches, mind and body, and I'm betting most people are doing the way that is more body. The ground-up, grunt effort way, whereas mind is top-down and less resource intensive, more mindful. This could be why most martial artists aren't freakin Jedis, so to speak (although even they are fairly physical, having to make some movement to affect their environment).

It's fascinating to see this concept articulated mathematically and all. That's cool. I agree with the idea that each style - hard, soft, hard-soft - has it's merit, although I'm inclined to think there may be something that unifies them (sorta like a GUT). Moreover, of course many know that, at least in Chinese culture, the whole of life this meditation is done, but this doesn't seem to really be taken seriously or comprehended in Western culture. I think it's the most important.

Are you familiar with the program I think on Discovery where it showed these monks who could heal, paralyze, or kill simply by touching someone? Do you think this was just a fiction made up for the show?


PS: I've been gradually penning this response, so just now have seen your last. Chaos is merely unpredictability. It doesn't mean there isn't structure. The yin-yang deal is one thing I just don't jive with.

[Xiaou2]

Are you familiar with the program I think on Discovery where it showed these monks who could heal, paralyze, or kill simply by touching someone? Do you think this was just a fiction made up for the show?

 Ive seen a section about Monks that could dry wet towels on themselves that
were ice cold,  in outside temperatures that were below 40 degrees.

 While this is impressive..    Do you think these guys can cook their enemies?
It took them hours to dry a towel.


 Ive also dabbled in Metaphysics in my youth.  Ive dealt with energies, and could
use them to heal.   I had also gained a great deal of Intuition and even got
a few Premonitions.   The stuff was very subtle...  which is why most never
get it.

 
 As for Touch of Death...  Sorry.. but I dont believe it.   The "Touch"  would have
to had been a strike.  Even if you could not see it, because it was very close
range.. and very very fast.     

 Some of these masters can generate enough force to kill at only an inch of
space or less.    They use in depth knowledge of anatomy, pressure points,
etc.. and can cause ruptures that will be lethal.

 There is also a lot of trickery.  Such as the use of Poisons laced on the hands.
(with a protectant that the user uses to keep himself safe).

 
 There are also the Illusionist,  who get a few paid actors to go along with things.
Who them get followers who want to believe... so much so... that they actually
hypnotize themselves into thinking the stuff is working.   Yet, its been tested
against people who are not from the 'Cult',  and it does not work.  This speaks
Volumes about its reality.

 
 Finally.. if you believe everything you see on TV, then tell me something...
Are you a believer in Chris Angel?  Do you think hes some sort of evil
demon capable of things that most humans are not?


 The reality.. is that TV is means to get money.  Ratings get make more money.
Exaggeration's and Lies get more ratings.   Of course,  there are plenty of
so called scientist that get Duped easily.


 Watching "Fight Science"... a show which was supposed to gather accurate
data about the martial arts movements... was riddled with inaccuracies and
false truths.   From this, we can clearly see how the 'experts'  are not always
correct.   Its been shown like this in many other shows similar to this as well.
 

 

[patrickl]

While this is impressive..    Do you think these guys can cook their enemies?
It took them hours to dry a towel.

I think I would be able to dry a towel in a few hours too.

[Xiaou2]

  Dry a sopping ice cold wet towel in under  40f degree weather?

 Most people would shiver uncontrollably,  and get hypothermia.    Id love to
see you try it.

[patrickl]

Well "under 40 degrees" is around bodytemperature for most of the world, but if you insist on fahrenheit then it's not for me no. I've seen a Navy seal who could do that though. Apparantly they're trained to suppress shivering and to survive extreme cold for a long time.

[Xiaou2]

 My apologies for not clarifying F.

  "That"   As in  That  "EXACTLY"?     I think its one thing to be able to survive in cold
weather for long durations... and yet another to be able to generate so much energy that
you actually can generate enough heat to keep you warm AND excess heat to steam dry a sopping wet towel.    (and these guys are not running around.   They are stationary,
sitting in meditation)   Its quite amazing.


 A lot of the people who train for things like Cold water submersion use similar techniques
of meditation.  But they also do things such as eat high fat diet to keep enough body
fuel and insulation for the trick.


 Is it some form of "CHI"  or is it simply a bodily reaction that only a select few
(or people who train a specific way)  can tap into?  Hard to say.   I try to maintain
an open mind.   


 On the other hand... these monks dont set wood on fire.   They simply release a good
deal of heat under extreme conditions.    My point being... that many of these feats
are very low power.   Subtle.   Non-Extreme.    (No Chi fireballs)

[patrickl]

Not exactly the same, but he sat in a tub of ice water for half an hour or so. Don't see how he wouldn't be able to dry a towel on his body.

[Ummon]

I, for one, am completely shocked we read a 4 page long discussion about chi fireballs and levitation from Ummon.

Hahahahahahah. Life is fruity.


Xiaou2, I just asked if you thought that show was fictional. It was something I just happened to see. Obviously you didn't see it, because you describe something different. These dudes exploited the meridians of the body - like in Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon, but with far more powerful effects. There was a part, supposedly to show the reality of it (ummm), where the main monk touched the show host and the guy almost passed out. There was obviously a little force involved, but the guy mentioned he felt an electric-like jolt. Nothing definitive, but interesting particularly if true.

The body heating thing I don't necessarily find remarkable. I think it's likely just a way of regulating the body. If not, much more interesting. The video of such that I saw didn't really say either way, but it was on meditation in general.

[mpm32]

Wait, we're not talking about the game Mortal Combat?

[DantheApe]

wow, very impressive 

I practice Tai Chi Chuan.  While not nearly as "flashy" as some martial arts, it can be just as fulfilling.  It's really helped my balance and flexibility...not an easy thing for a bigger guy.

[Ummon]

wow, very impressive 

I practice Tai Chi Chuan.  While not nearly as "flashy" as some martial arts, it can be just as fulfilling.  It's really helped my balance and flexibility...not an easy thing for a bigger guy.

"....judge me by my size, do you?"  (two points for an automatic recall of where this is from.)