Which encoder(s) for these controls?

[web.geek]

In my first MAME control panel, I used the iPac4 for a 4 player (1 joy/6 button each) layout. Here is a list of buttons, joys, trackballs, and spinners I will be using in my next 2 player CP.

 2 rotary joysticks (1P and 2P)
 2 top-fire joysticks (1P and 2P)
 12 buttons (6 x 1P, 6 x 2P)
 1 USB trackball
 1 TT2 Spinner

Which encoder do you recommend? Can more than one encoder be used? Do I need one for the rotary joys and one for the others?

[Turnarcades]

Your best bet is to use a mini-pac and get a U-trak (and maybe a spintrak) while you're at it. All your digital controls as well as the trackball and spinner can be interfaced to the mini-pac easily with quick disconnects. All you need then is an encoder for the rotary sticks.

[web.geek]

I have significantly altered my plans. My new 2-player control panel is now going to have:

2 - Happ Mechanical Rotary Joysticks
2 - Happ Top-Fire 8-way Joysticks
2 - Happ 3" Trackballs
2 - GGG T2 Spinners
12 - Pushbuttons (2 players @ 6 each)
4 - "start" buttons (1P, 2P, 2x coin)
7 - Pinball buttons (shared with P1/P2 buttons)
4 - Admin buttons (Left Mouse, Right Mouse, Tab, ESC/Exit)
14 - Jukebox buttons* (Mapped to A+1, A+2, etc)
*Most of the jukebox buttons will be duplicates of existing buttons.

Can these all work together? How many of which kinds of interface boards do I need?

(CP Pic)

[u_rebelscum]

Some of what you want depends on exactly what you get:

arcade TB or USB PC TB?
  (I suggest the arcade one as some people have had problems with the USB version, but the USB is easier and needs less extra stuff)

the TT2 as two masters or as one master & one slave?  (Or even two slaves?)

do you care how many wires connect the CP to the computer?


I'll mention a few options: U-HID, minipac, optipac, i-pac, (Rotary Joystick Interface), optiwiz, gpwiz40, use TT2 encoders.

Your two TBs complicate things.  (Not knocking it, I have a 2 TB CP too.)  Of all the above options, the optipac is the only device that can act as two mice (TBs).  So that means optipac, two U-HIDs, two minipacs, two optiwizs, or wire each TB through a TT2, ot get two usb TBs.

The GPwiz40 can handle the mechanical rotaries, in addition to the joystick and buttons, which is great since you're already getting the TT2.  Otherwise, you'll need ultimarc's Rotary Joystick Interface or some other rotary encoder.  Andy has said he might be able to add rotary support to the u-hid, but it won't be standard


If I was building your CP, I'd probably get the GPwiz40, optipac, and two arcade TBs.  OTOH, if I was planning on adding analog joystick, pedal, or wheel, I'd see if Andy could add the rotary suppor; if so, go 2 U-HIDs & 2 arcade TBs.  If you want to save some money, you can go gpwiz40 & 2 usb TBs.


edit:  Forget the cables issue. If you go 2 usb TBs, 2 master TT2s, and gpwiz40, that's 5 usb cables.  By usb standards, a usb hub is only required to handle 4 low power usb devices.  However, people sometimes have usb problems at power on with 4 (or even less) due to too much power demand (total of all devices) or not enough power supplied (by computer).  If you go TT2 master + slave, that'll save a cable, and you can mouse etch-e-stick like in windows, but you'll need to remap mame (you might need to remap anyway).  The optipac has one cable between it and the computer, and can handle 2 TBs (and 2 slave TT2 if you go that way).  But optipac with 2 arcade TBs can demand the equivalent of 2 devices especially at power up (see hub limits above).

[web.geek]

 

So, are you saying the GPWiz40 will handle the rotary joys AND the top fire joys? When you say "arcade trackballs," are you simply referring to the non-USB vesion of the Happs?

As far as master/slave configurations, I am pretty open. The only restriction I have is that I already own a Happ USB 3" trackball. Can that be turned back into a non-USB trackball?

I also noticed that my motherboard has 4 USB...umm..."pin sets" on board yet only one is wired up (to the front of the case). These are in addition to the two ports on the back of the case. Can I make use of those extra on-board pinouts?

It also sounds like I am going to need to upgrade my PSU (currently 380W). Recommendations for my proposed setup?

Thanks

[AndyWarne]

Andy has said he might be able to add rotary support to the u-hid, but it won't be standard

I am working on this now. But using the Happ rotary 12-way with the U-HID will require soldering as the supplied Happ connector will not fit on the U-HID (unlike our rotary interface which just plugs in).

Can I make a blatant plug (sorry but I try to avoid doing this too often...) and tempt you with our U-Trak trackballs which give a number of benefits?

Andy

[u_rebelscum]

I do that sometimes.

So, are you saying the GPWiz40 will handle the rotary joys AND the top fire joys? When you say "arcade trackballs," are you simply referring to the non-USB vesion of the Happs?

yes & yes.

As far as master/slave configurations, I am pretty open. The only restriction I have is that I already own a Happ USB 3" trackball. Can that be turned back into a non-USB trackball?

Yes, you'd need to replace the USB boards with two of the arcade red sensor boards (or any other arcade TB sensor board that fits happs/atari TBs), and probably a matching harness too.  But since you already have the USB version, you might want to just try it for a while; it might not have the problems that others have had.  Some people don't have any problems with 'em, but enough people who post here have (sensors failing & backspin, mostly) that I'm leery of them.

I also noticed that my motherboard has 4 USB...umm..."pin sets" on board yet only one is wired up (to the front of the case). These are in addition to the two ports on the back of the case. Can I make use of those extra on-board pinouts?

Yes.  You'll have to find the correct harness.  Your MB might have come with them (if you BYO), and many computer cases have them for the front USB ports.  Or you can buy one, or build your own.

It also sounds like I am going to need to upgrade my PSU (currently 380W). Recommendations for my proposed setup?

Err, sorry I wasn't clear on this.  USB doesn't use much power from the PSU, but that's the problem.  There only that small amount to spread around.

A powered USB USB port can supply up to 500 mA.  Devices can ask for 100 mA up to the 500 mA in steps of 100.  So, if you plug a hub into the USB port that supplies 500 mA, the hub asks for the full 500 mA.  100 mA is for itself, and it has 400 mA left for the 4 ports in the hub.  That's 100 mA per port if all are used.  If the hub is plugged into the wall, OTOH, assuming the wall wart is a 2 A supply, the hub can supply the full 500 mA per port (2 A = 2000 mA, 2000 / 4 = 500).  The thing is most devices can run fine on less than 100 mA, but the initial power on (or plug in) often needs 100 mA or more.  With 4 USB devices plugged into an un-wall-powered hub, there might be too much demand on startup for all devices to work correctly.

So I doubt you'll need a new PSU, but be careful on USB power.

[web.geek]

OK, the fog is starting to lift. (for reference, I am using an ECS GeForce7050M-M2 motherboard)

Right now, 1 USB 2.0 header is connected to the front of the case via Adapter providing two ports (see red circle in usb_headers.jpg). There are 4 other ports hard wired into the mobo that are accessible from the back (see rear_usb_ports.jpg).

So riddle me this: Do each of these independently provide 500mA of USB power? If I add a USB 2.0 Header to A Type USB Port Adapter, do I get another 500mA source? And if I use a self-powered hub, will that circumvent the USB power on issues?

[web.geek]

Can I make a blatant plug (sorry but I try to avoid doing this too often...) and tempt you with our U-Trak trackballs which give a number of benefits?

PM Sent to Andy

[u_rebelscum]

So riddle me this: Do each of these independently provide 500mA of USB power? If I add a USB 2.0 Header to A Type USB Port Adapter, do I get another 500mA source? And if I use a self-powered hub, will that circumvent the USB power on issues?

Each header supplies at least 500 mA (usb 2.0 standard).  Some MBs treat the pair as running off of one internal hub (500 mA divided between the two ports), others give 500 mA per port.

Yes, that adapter (if it pin matches your MB's) will "start new" with 500 mA.

Yes, if you get a self powered hub and plug it into the wall and the wall wart is on spec, the 500 mA limit re-starts at each of the hub's ports.