Would you do it again

[Shieldwolf]

I'm sure someone has asked this already, but I wanted to hear about the horror stories and triumphs from other people. If you had to build your machine over again, what would you do different? Did you learn any important lessons?

[rampy]

I'm sure someone has asked this already, but I wanted to hear about the horror stories and triumphs from other people. If you had to build your machine over again, what would you do different? Did you learn any important lessons?

Well it seems a cabinet is *never* finished -> i.e. I have done parts of mine over (going from sidewinder hack to key wiz encoder, covering the control panel with laminate, etc).

I love the building/tweaking/hacking process so I'd definitely do the project again, and am doing another one with/for a friend.

Here are the best practices I've learned (although I'm currently FINALLY updated Ubercade's site with some of my thoughts in the Diary of a Madman section):

1. Try and do it right the first time and take your time i.e. don't rush no matter how excited you  are to play "frogger" or Street Fighter 9 Revenge of Ryu's Grandkids

2. Have the right tools for the job, even if you have to rent or borrow or buy them... I wasted more time/energy/aggrevation using substandard/improper tools than anything else (i.e. my cordless drill would drain down after 4 button holes drilled -- I used needlenose pliers to remove bolts/nuts, etc etc)

3. For the love of gawd use a keyboard encoder if applicable for your project, whether it's a mk64, key wiz, ipac, jpac etc...

4. I woulda ordered stuff from bob roberts instead of happs

5. I woula bid higher on one of those NEW imperial betson trackballs instead of the refurb I got at the same price/sans ps/2 action (which I ended up hacking myself) when they were flooding ebay

6. I woulda went with a real arcade monitor and an arcadeVGA card (if cost wasn't an object -> my project started life because I got a free gutted cabinet --- also arcadeVGA didn't exist at the time)

7. I woulda got the best sticks and buttons... p360's with replacement 4" ball tops OR 2 j-sticks ball tops or t-sticks from  ultimarc for switchable 4/8 way action.

8. I wouldn't have built a wooden prototype control panel, as it ended up becoming my "final" control panel.

9. I mighta bought a working JAMMA cabinet and used a jpac/arcadeVGA that was in decent shape (see point 6 parenthetical) to start with.

10.   uyhhhh.. I lost my train of thought...

11. I'd go with smoked plexi glass again.

12. I wouldn't bother with the stupid Act Labs light gun

13. I woulda gone with that fancy vinyl oscar discoverd for my contol panel covering (although it was a good learning experience to put on laminate)

14.  woulda bought the right laminate trimming bit and not a weak arse flush cutting bit that disintigrated on me (see rule 2).


*shrug*

Rampy

[creatine28]

I'm sure someone has asked this already, but I wanted to hear about the horror stories and triumphs from other people. If you had to build your machine over again, what would you do different? Did you learn any important lessons?

12. I wouldn't bother with the stupid Act Labs light gun

Just curious what issue's you had with the act lab guns? Are they not worth getting?

[rampy]

12. I wouldn't bother with the stupid Act Labs light gun

Just curious what issue's you had with the act lab guns? Are they not worth getting?

eh... I'd rather not go into it except that I quickly grew bored of the light gun games (especially playing only 1 player!), and the accuracy was frustrating... in a word disappointed! (spelling, I know)

rampy

[Lilwolf]

I would have

1) built my own from scratch... why?  I lived in bfe and payed 250 for a working cab... 100+ for shipping... and after getting it ready, it was just a wood box..  And I could have built that for about 60 bucks in wood.

2) arcadeVGA + jpac... if I had a 'real' cab... but they wheren't out back then.

3) cocktail table.  Why?  my wife will let me put a cocktail table in the living room... my cabinet is always hidden.

4) I wouldn't have written a frontend until AFTER my cabinet was finished.... took WAY more time then building a cabinet....  But the frontend almost got me a sweet job!  So all in all its a good thing  .....   Also, a new version hopefully soon!

5) I would have bought good wire and forgot about the !@# cab5 cable.  I recently did it and OMG what a difference!  I got 500feet of boundary wire and it works GREAT!  

6) I wouldn't have bought a used trackball on ebay... It took way to much to get it to spin nicely... I should have gone with 2 2 1/4's instead.

all I can think of right now

[bionicbadger]

Would definately do it again.  Building the Cabinet is at least as fun as playing it.

Things I would do differently:
-include everything, or make provisions for everything beforehand instead of trying to fit/add on stuff later.  (steering wheel, star wars yoke, etc.)
-Put another coat of paint on and some type of sealer.
-Use that lightweight MDF instead of the regular stuff.
-Wait until summer and cut/router the MDF outdoors to cut down on the mess in the garage

[Amra]

A better .wav would be the one from "The 5th Element"... lol... sorry had to throw that in....

Well, lets see...

1.  Would try and refrain from the "testing stage"....

Thats about it... as this single one forces you to "hurry" and thus somethings about your cabinet are not done as good as they could have been, or should be....

[HeadRusch]

Yes, I'd do it again.

Changes:
1) I'd have layed out my CP differently to account for a trackball, even though at the time I swore to myself it was a useless necessity and my little $3.00 USB one would do the job.  It does..bu thtats it, it just does the job..it does not fit into the cab...and generally it looks crappy.  Time to order up a real one from Ultimarc, along with a USB conversion kit for my serial port optipac.

2) I'd have used 1/2 MDF for my CP instead of 3/4".  Say what you like, 3/4" MDF is freakin overkill unless your CP depth is something in the neighborhood of 24"+....since my "box" underneath my CP is only 12" Deep, 1/2 MDF would have been much easier to work with, my sticks would have stuck out further...and it wouldn't have taken me 20 hours to drill through that freakin "made of diamond dust" MDF...

3) I wouldn't have added L brackets underneath my CP...they really are too weak to provide any support and they look kinda crappy from the front.....but its not the end of the world.....

Other than that, I am pretty pleased overall with my Cab, and the CP.....but I have this nagging feeling I'm going to be doing it over. (the CP)...I've got 1/2" MDF...I've got enough Lexan...and I've got the desire to fix some things I did on this one.......like add that trackball....

[Mike]

Things I found are somewhat different than other peoples.
1.  I'd build the fastest control panel I could. Not paint it or anything and stick it on your cabinet. Then play it a while and see how it fits on my cabinet and see what I could possibly change on it or make different and then build a good one.

2. I would have my cabinet completely painted, lamenated or basically have the finish done before I jack with replacing or adding t-molding. I'd do this for a couple of reasons first it's easy to jack up your t-molding and then you have to replace it again and second ordering t-molding when your about finished will make it easier to hit the happ's $25 minimum if you need any extra little parts.

3. Use an encoder, don't jack with with tearing apart keyboards, mice or joysticks.

4. Anything I think I can live without on the cabinet, I'd realize I can't and plan to get everything from the start. You think you won't want a trackball or spinner or whatever else but you will.

5. Ebay sucks, it usually cost you more and is a hassle in the long run.

6. HACKED Controls are not as good as the REAL thing.

[Smittydc]

I wouldn't change a thing.  Mine's perfect.  

Of course, now I'm building a portable one for my DJ/VJ  rack...

important lessons:
Right tools for the job: Router, Dremel, Spring-loaded automatic wire stripper

Learn to use Adobe Illustrator well

And murphy's law of CP-construction: The 14th and final hole you drill will be the one you screw up.

[spectre]

lol...so how crappy is the lightgun (don't worry im going to buy it from you anyway just because i want one) lol

[Lilwolf]

As for the light guns... it depends on the version

the gs light gun system... sucks!  Not worth anything... I bought one for 10 bucks on ebay and thought I was reamed!  

The new usb light gun is ok.  Its usable and works.  The button is to tight though..  But you will get it to work on real light gun games (not guns mounted on joystick games)... but the flashing and only easy 1 player support... not amazing...  I hardly ever use it... if it worked great... I would use it daily

[HeadRusch]

Is there a reason you can't just buy a nice SQUIRTGUN, essentially mount IT over a standard PC analog joystick, and use THAT as a T2/Operation Wolf/Thunderbolt type of gun?

[rampy]

Is there a reason you can't just buy a nice SQUIRTGUN, essentially mount IT over a standard PC analog joystick, and use THAT as a T2/Operation Wolf/Thunderbolt type of gun?

well isn't the opwolf/t2 guns.... have more of a pivot left/right and an up/down movement by forward/back?

er... the analog joy could do the forward back very well... but you'd need something else rigged up to do the "twisting" part right... if you just glued a toy gun to the top of a analog PC stick, you'd just have a dorky looking balltop replacement me thinks =P

rampy

[Chris]

If I were starting over, I would:

• Build the cab from scratch using the rotating control panel a la 1Up and Frostillicious, rather than convert
• Go with a real arcade trackball right off the bat, rather than waste time trying 4 or 5 PC balls first
• Paint with a roller rather than spraypaint

[StLouisRod]

Would I do it again?  Well, since I've built 5 Mame cabinets so far, I'd have to say "Yes, as long as people keep paying me for them  ".  Things I've learned:

1.  Plan on 2 to 3 times the time you THINK it will take to build your cabinet  

2.  You CAN get a$750.00 Wells Gardner D9200 27" monitor for $465.00 if you talk to the sales rep long enough.  And once you have that monitor (which supports an undocumented 800x600 SVGA mode) you'll never go back.

3.  Build your cabinet from a kit or from scratch.  Hacking a perfectly good Arcade cabinet is just plain wrong.  Not to mention ugly if you keep it's original artwork then slather on a Mame logo  

4.  Make marquee by printing graphic on backlit film at kinko's, then sandwhich between 2 sheets of 1/16" plexiglass.  That way you can swap out the marquee down the road if you choose a new design, or a customer wants to put their own in.

5.  Don't assume a local Glass Company can actually cut glass or plexi properly.  Mine made some 90 degree cuts at 91 or 92 degrees, but I had no time to return it, so that's what my customer had to live with.

6.  Go with either a 27" VGA monitor (SVGA if possible), or a real arcade monitor hooked through Ultimarc's ArcadeVGA.  Loading software drivers to display on an arcade monitor CAN work, but they can also clash with game graphics drivers, directX, etc.  

What would I LIKE to do differently?

1. Continue to build control panel with laminated MDF.  But  then print a custom graphic overlay at kinkos and sandwhich it down with a custom piece of plexiglass or lexan.  This graphic would contain function items (Coin 1, pause, Favorites, Joystick arrows, etc.)

2.  Get the weight down!!!  My 4-player cabinets, with PC inside weigh a TON (well over 300 pounds)!  Very tough to move around.

[Shieldwolf]

any suggestions on how to bring down the weight

[TalkingOctopus]

1.  Plan on 2 to 3 times the time you THINK it will take to build your cabinet

Yeah I learned that one real fast.  

The only warning I will add is be VERY careful with lexan.  It may be 10 x stronger than glass, but it still cracks!  

[anthony691]

Wow... I have had so many let downs...

Crappy arcade monitors need to be avoided...

Even though you think you have made the Plexiglass your bit**... you haven't!

Those are probably my best two lessons...

[TalkingOctopus]

any suggestions on how to bring down the weight

When it comes down to it...arcade cabinets are always going to be heavy.  Here are a few suggestions I can think of off the top of my head.

• They sell a lightweight mdf.  I cannot think of the specific name of it, but they had it at the home depot near my house.  I did not use it either so I do not know if it makes a difference.
• Take off the tv/monitor case.
• Don't use a computer case.  Some of those cases can be really heavy

[paigeoliver]

Use a mini cabinet or caberet cabinet, they are a lot lighter. 70s cabinets are lighter than 80s cabinets (I think because they are shallower maybe?).

Be sure to take out that 15 lb transformer that is probably still screwed to the bottom of the cabinet.

You can lose a few pounds by removing the heavy coin enclosure in cabinets with over/under coin doors (some other cabs have big steel coin enclosures too). For that matter, unless you are actually using quarters, you can take out everything internally relating to coins (metal mechs are about 1 lb each, the box that the coin bucket may sit in probably weighs a few lbs too.

[)p(]

What I would do different...?

Mmmm...probably not much...most things would be all the fancy stuff that was not available when I made mine...

-Most importent would be a better spinner.

-I also thought about perfect 360 with ball tops. To replace my wico leaf joysticks...because  no adjustments leafs would be nescessary anymore...but in practice I have only once adjusted the leafs...

-I think I would make a better cpo overlay design...the current one is ok and at the time one off the first custom ones...but it is could be done better...

peter

[Shieldwolf]

guys thanks for the advice keep it coming.

[bigmoe]

Very enlightening.  You guys are great!