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Author Topic: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME  (Read 34722 times)

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dmworking247

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$9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« on: September 15, 2008, 09:51:08 pm »
I've recently come across a USB game controller (PS2-style), that has a PCB seemingly designed with hacking in mind. It has dedicated solder points and clear labels, and best of all, its cheap.

If you're debating whether to do a 'keyboard hack' or buy a dedicated encoder like an IPAC, then this USB controller hack is a very cheap and viable alternative as it is far easier to hack, far less time consuming, and suffers none of the 'ghosting' problems of keyboard hacks.

That said, if you dont understand the basic concepts of 'ground wires', soldering, or these pictures generally don't make sense to you, then the easiest option is to buy an encoder like the IPAC Value Edition. 

Note also that *MAME* can be configured to use any input you like for any button, and most other emulators can too. This is how you're able to use a usb controller which appears to Windows/MAME as a USB joystick.  The IPAC however actually emulates KEYBOARD and there's no fiddling with MAME settings, plus you can reprogram a dedicated encoder to be used for dedicated buttons like 'enter' and 'escape' etc that might be used in other programs (other than mame).  There are of course utilities like joy2key (?) that map your joystick buttons to keyboard buttons, so there are ways around it even with this controller hack... it just requires a little more fiddling around with software setup.

In a nutshell, if all you want is to interface your arcade controls with MAME and nothing else, and you're able to use a soldering iron, this hack is a great option.

Here's some information on hacking the Deal Extreme 'ultra hackable' USB game controller. (at the time of writing, US$9.19 each with free delivery).

With this controller, you can get 4 directions + 10 buttons (4 face buttons, 2x2 trigger buttons, plus start and select).
This could be used to give you a 1 player, 8 button with credit & start.
or 2 players with one button each, and a single credit / start button.

Realistically for two player I recommend just using two gamepads.

So without further ado:

Notes: MAME can be configured to use whatever button you like, so it doesn't really matter about the sequence/numbering of the buttons, nevertheless I've marked them for you.

When I tried chopping off off the analog controls the controller was trying to go up/left constantly. When I reattached the analog control sticks it was fine again. Thus I've concluded its best to leave them on, as its easier than putting a resistor or whatnot to make it 'think' it still has them.








Not bad for 20 mins work... I'm starting to think it takes me less time than hooking up an IPAC!
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 07:39:55 am by dmworking247 »

jholman76

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2008, 10:12:53 pm »
Thats amazing. I just did a Logitech Precision pad hack for 10 bucks and it wasnt that easy... I ended up using 4 grounds.... thats annoying.

I might have to get me one of these for my bartop that I am starting....

good find, my friend. There is just something about making the CP rather than buying a IPAC, although they are great items.

You think its possible to re-locate the analogs to a CP and use them?

Joe

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2008, 10:19:24 pm »
Good old dealextreme. I love that shop, got so many useful items from there.   :laugh:
Wish list: Galaga, Pacman, Pooyan, Star Wars cockpit, Gauntlet, Tron

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jholman76

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2008, 10:23:45 pm »
yah, i see they have the "iFone".

It would be fun to get one and freak some people out here, since we dont have AT&T in my area...

they are legit, eh? just chinese products, I assume.

dmworking247

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2008, 10:35:28 pm »
You think its possible to re-locate the analogs to a CP and use them?

I think thats quite easy actually.  Just chop the ribbon cable between the PCB and the analog sticks and put some extra ribbon cable (ie an extention) in the middle.  You might need to be a little creative about how to secure the analog stick PCB under the control panel, but its definitely possible.

DealExtreme also have some Playstation 2 controllers even cheaper. I intend to hack one of these when it arrives and see if its just as easy, and at the time I'll probably do something fancy with the rumble motors & analog sticks in a desktop control panel, so I'll post an update when/if I do that.

jholman76

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2008, 10:56:57 pm »
That might be interesting for games that can take advantage of it... STOP GIVING ME IDEAS

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2008, 11:06:19 pm »
Great link!  Exactly what I was looking for.  I just ordered 3 for my 2 cabs I am building.

Thanks for sharing!

~ D
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2008, 11:11:00 pm »
This is very interesting, especially for anyone looking to do a modular/swappable panel system.

Although using an IPAQ or Keywiz looks easy enough, for a swappable panel system nothing would be easier than having everything USB and a USB hub under the CP, then just plug the panel in and go.  

Very interesting.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2008, 11:38:20 pm »
so before I order a couple... you tested it and you only need 1 ground for everything and there is no phantom keys, etc?

dmworking247

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2008, 12:20:55 am »
Thats correct. 'Ghosting' is generally only a problem when hacking a keyboard because it uses a matrix of circuits when closed in combination, form a particular key press.

As I understand it, USB controllers like this, and encoders like ipac etc have dedicated circuits for each button so there's no risk of 'pressing A + B = Button C'

Before soldering everything to a single ground wire, I tested all of the ground points of every button with other ground points, to confirm they were common.

Nevertheless, if you're still unsure, order one of them, give it a try, then order some more :)

Blanka

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2008, 01:29:09 am »
What are the blocks under the analog sticks? 2 potmeters?
Can you hookup this one to those:
http://www.arcadeshop.de/Joysticks-LS-64-Analog-Stick_718.html

dmworking247

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2008, 01:50:35 am »
What are the blocks under the analog sticks? 2 potmeters?
Can you hookup this one to those:
http://www.arcadeshop.de/Joysticks-LS-64-Analog-Stick_718.html

Yes, two pots and a tiny microswitch (as you'd probably know, the PS2 style analog sticks function as a  button when you press them down).

You could hook up one of those  analog sticks you linked to, providing the pots have the same resistance range.

After a little more thought, the pots are actually reading zero resistance in their 'home' position, which leads me to believe you can chop off the analog sticks if you wanted to, but you'd need to figure which wires from the ribbon cable need to be joined together to 'pass through'. In other words, I think when the analog sticks are in their home position (reading zero resistance/straight continuity) its closing a circuit, and thus when I chopped the wires, its reading 'fully open') if that makes sense.   

I couldn't be bothered experimenting with that level of detail right now hence I just left them connected :)

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2008, 03:01:08 am »
i hacked something very similar to that for a project. then i got ambitious and decided to tidy it up by removing the thumbsticks. killed it dead! so good advice there on leaving them in place!


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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2008, 08:05:14 am »
Nice find!

A quick heads up for you UK byoac'ers or anyone outside of the US, they offer free worldwide shipping too!  :)

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2008, 02:46:44 pm »
Thats correct. 'Ghosting' is generally only a problem when hacking a keyboard because it uses a matrix of circuits when closed in combination, form a particular key press.

As I understand it, USB controllers like this, and encoders like ipac etc have dedicated circuits for each button so there's no risk of 'pressing A + B = Button C'

This is actually not true.  Gamepads can (and sometimes do) exhibit ghosting / blocking, just like keyboards.  This can be associated with a couple of things.

The first is the use of a matrix for decoding button presses.  Using a matrix allows for more buttons to be attached to fewer inputs, so it tends to be used as a cost saving measure.

The other is the USB report structure used by the device, coupled with the way memory is allocated.  Granted, this would be a sloppy implementation, but I've seen some doozies that were designed only to look very capable for a very low price, with little regard to actual performance.

That being said, I have had these on the store for ages, pretty much for this purpose.  Same setup w/14 inputs, and no analog sticks.  I can provide just the board (pre-gutted) as well.  Good for a simple control panel for the BIL or something.

RandyT

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2008, 03:33:35 pm »
This sort of hack would only be useful for 4-way joystick games, yes?

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2008, 03:36:40 pm »
This sort of hack would only be useful for 4-way joystick games, yes?

No. 8-way sticks only have 4 switches.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2008, 03:38:10 pm »
That's a lot more useful than I figured, then.  :D

Randy, the game pads on your site would be hacked in pretty much the same way?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 03:39:43 pm by Benevolance »

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2008, 03:59:52 pm »
I can provide just the board (pre-gutted) as well.  Good for a simple control panel for the BIL or something.

RandyT
You wouldn't happen to have any Sidewinder Dual Strike boards would you?

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2008, 07:01:44 pm »
Randy-

So, do the ones you have on your site all have a common ground? I'm looking for super easy here, I got burned on the last one I did.

If they have a similiar ground and are cheaper with shipping, I may have to take you up on a few.

dmworking247

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2008, 09:31:07 pm »
I agree.

RandyT, I'd prefer to buy your controllers (even though DX has free shipping) if they're equally easy to solder and have a common ground, as it means I could grab other items I needed at the same time.

Any chance you could post a few more details of the controllers you stock, such as photos of the solder points inside and confirmation they have a common ground?

Is the price the same for the stripped down unit? More? Less?

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2008, 10:26:06 pm »
anyone know of a super easy super cheap keyboard hack? something for a super old $5 garage sale computer with no usb....it has an AT keyboard with a din connection  :dizzy:

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2008, 10:12:38 am »
Randy, the game pads on your site would be hacked in pretty much the same way?

Almost exactly.  These also have large points to solder to and a common ground setup.

Here's a photo:




RandyT

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2008, 10:56:51 am »

Also want to mention that drilling a hole for the wire is largely unnecessary.  Just strip a very short section of insulation from the end of your wire.  Then put a little ball of solder on the pad.  If you have some liquid flux, then dip the end of the wire into it.  If not, tin the end of the wire with some solder.  Then just heat the ball of solder while pushing the end of the wire into it.  Pause your iron there for just a second to make sure everything is good and hot, then pull the iron away while holding the wire in place.  Give it a couple seconds to cool and it's done.

RandyT


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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2008, 11:05:05 am »
I would suggest that if you use Randy's method (which is how I do most of my hacks, btw), you should secure the solder joint and a bit of the wire with some hot glue when you are done.  This will prevent a yank on the wire ripping up the copper traces from the pcb. 

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2008, 11:33:29 am »
I would suggest that if you use Randy's method (which is how I do most of my hacks, btw), you should secure the solder joint and a bit of the wire with some hot glue when you are done.  This will prevent a yank on the wire ripping up the copper traces from the pcb. 

Yes, that's a good suggestion.  However, you don't really want to do this right on the joint.  It's much better to strain relieve the wires themselves, alone or as a group, elsewhere on the board.  If you should ever need to fix a solder joint, or re-use the board for something, hot glue will make that nearly impossible.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2008, 11:45:59 am »
Those controllers look pretty good RandyT, shame I didn't know about them earlier.

I suspect however that even a bulk order might be costly to Australia due to the weight in postage. Maybe when I get my projects under control I'll think about the best way to grab some of those along with various other items I need (like new actuators for the happs :D )

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2008, 11:50:36 am »
I suspect however that even a bulk order might be costly to Australia due to the weight in postage. Maybe when I get my projects under control I'll think about the best way to grab some of those along with various other items I need (like new actuators for the happs :D )
Don't they offer free worldwide shipping?

A quick heads up for you UK byoac'ers or anyone outside of the US, they offer free worldwide shipping too!  :)
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dmworking247

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2008, 06:54:18 pm »
Yeah DealExtreme (The controller/link in my initial post) is free WorldWide shipping.

My comment was about ordering the slightly cheaper but equally good (by the looks of that picture) controller from GroovyGameGear.  GGG's shipping isnt free.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2008, 01:04:57 am »
** EDIT ** Whoops!  Was wondering where my post went!  Wrong topic...  :banghead:

I killed the pics to not waste any space on the server.

~ D
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 12:05:45 pm by DeLuSioNal29 »
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dmworking247

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2008, 04:18:32 am »
Were you testing a hacked gamepad at the time, or are you just posting in the wrong thread? :D

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2008, 06:04:59 am »
Update:

I also ordered a WIRELESS PS2 CONTROLLER for US$19.84



I've just opened it up and its just as easy to hack. I'm going to incorporate it into a desktop controller in the coming weeks so I'll post some pictures and an update on how well it works wirelessly then.

Edit: I've successfully hacked it, and it works great!  One point to note however is that there's a 'common ground' for the directions and all of the buttons, however the start, select, and analog/digital switch button has its own shared ground.  For a standard control panel you wouldn't need these buttons, but I'm going to attempt something a little bit more fancy :D
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 08:24:19 am by dmworking247 »

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2008, 12:07:27 pm »
That wireless hack would be great for those who are using a media center PC.  You can simply bust out your control panel when you want to play and there will be no wires to fuss with.  Hmmm...

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2008, 12:23:49 pm »
I have some wireless Saitek PC gamepads for that very purpose...   ;)

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2008, 12:26:45 pm »
I used a PS2 dvd remote to make a Guitar Hero star power pedal. Turned out great.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2008, 03:35:57 pm »
That's an excellent idea.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2008, 04:26:39 pm »
I used a PS2 dvd remote to make a Guitar Hero star power pedal. Turned out great.

Cool, I have a PS@ remote still laying around. Aren't they directional though? The wireless control pads I'm using are 2.4ghz radio frequency, whereas the remote controls are infrared?

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2008, 04:41:22 pm »
I just aim it at the PS2 and put it on the floor. The IR LED is sticking out through a hole in the front, and I have a sturdy button on top wired to the SELECT button on remote. I then covered it in random red and white stripes Eddie Van Halen style.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2008, 09:50:56 am »
Quick update:

I've now incorporated the PS2 and USB versions into my desktop controller project(s) and am happy to report they suffer no ghosting and no noticable lag.

Success!

AwesomeAlbert

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2008, 09:00:20 pm »
Update:

I also ordered a WIRELESS PS2 CONTROLLER for US$19.84



I've just opened it up and its just as easy to hack. I'm going to incorporate it into a desktop controller in the coming weeks so I'll post some pictures and an update on how well it works wirelessly then.

Edit: I've successfully hacked it, and it works great!  One point to note however is that there's a 'common ground' for the directions and all of the buttons, however the start, select, and analog/digital switch button has its own shared ground.  For a standard control panel you wouldn't need these buttons, but I'm going to attempt something a little bit more fancy :D


will this wireless joystick work with a ps2 to usb adapter to use it wirelessly for ps2 and pc?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 10:00:05 pm by AwesomeAlbert »

dmworking247

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2008, 10:11:42 pm »
Yes the wireless one works with PC using those adaptors. I've already tested this after hacking the controller, I just haven't installed it into a control panel yet.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2008, 07:33:09 pm »
Okay... I'm new to hacking controls myself so please bare with me...

you say you have one ground point which you daisy chain with the microswitches... by this, do you mean you would have multiple wires coming from this point acting as one of the two wires going to each microswitch or am I totally misunderstanding?

I know, I know!

HaRuMaN

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2008, 08:44:35 pm »
you say you have one ground point which you daisy chain with the microswitches... by this, do you mean you would have multiple wires coming from this point acting as one of the two wires going to each microswitch or am I totally misunderstanding?

You have it right.  Microswitches have three pins: common, NO, NC.  Your common ground will be daisy-chained from your pcb to all the common pins on each switch.  Each button and direction wire will go to the correct NO pin on your arcade buttons and joystick.

dmworking247

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2008, 12:20:46 am »
I thought I'd update this thread since I did eventually (successfully) hack the wireless PS2 controller mentioned earlier in this thread.

The results were posted in my Desktop Controllers Thread, look for the Green "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" control panel (reply #18).

jholman76

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2009, 01:08:54 am »
Sorry to ressurect an old thread, but I just wanted to add that I got the game pads from GGG and they are super easy to hack. wow. Thanks alot.

I think I got it all done in about 1hr and that included cutting/striping/tinning the wire, cardboard box CP and all.

Nice and easy solder points and a common ground.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2009, 03:53:33 pm »
just to interject, dealextreme just got in some $6 12 button controllers with no rumble or analog sticks to mess with.  I'm probably getting between 1 and 4 in my next order to dealextreme

IG-88

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2009, 04:46:11 pm »
I wonder if these ^^ are as easy to hack?
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2009, 07:03:51 pm »
I wonder if these ^^ are as easy to hack?
I just added one to my order using my points, I'll make sure to take detailed photos when it arrives.  :)

The $6 version, that is.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2009, 07:20:30 pm »
Ya, I went ahead and ordered one too.

I wonder, would a mobo or o/s recognize one of these if you plugged it into the ps/2 port....?
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2009, 08:18:53 am »
It arrived and I took it apart. I took some photos for you. I don't know what to do now because I don't have any controls, but I do have a multimeter if anyone wants me to test anything.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2009, 09:11:07 am »
Oh that'll be a super easy hack.  Points to solder to already available, and a common ground.  Good deal.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2009, 10:21:02 am »
Simple question for something I'm not understading about this.. In the very first post you mention what you get..

"With this controller, you can get 4 directions + 10 buttons (4 face buttons, 2x2 trigger buttons, plus start and select). This could be used to give you a 1 player, 8 button with credit & start.
or 2 players with one button each, and a single credit / start button."

What I'm unclear about is the part about 4 directions? Does that mean you do NOT get an 8-way controller effect? No diagnal motions? or am I just totally not understanding? (example of a diagnal usage would be jumping in fighting games)

Thanks

Ginsu Victim

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2009, 10:29:56 am »
8-way only uses four directions. It just hits diagonals, like UP plus LEFT. A 4-way stick doesn't hit the diagonals.

supadave

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2009, 10:47:36 am »
So this hack would use the up and left as a diagonal then? 4 directions 8 way.. Not a true 100% 4 way. (which is fine by me) I need the diagnal to work for fighting games and such and I like this option but I just wanted to be certain. The obvious thought in my mind is that it would work fine but you know what they say.. never ASSume.. 

8-way only uses four directions. It just hits diagonals, like UP plus LEFT. A 4-way stick doesn't hit the diagonals.

Ginsu Victim

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2009, 11:01:25 am »
8-way sticks only have 4 switches. They use two switches at once for diagonals. That is how it works and has worked for decades. There are no shortcuts being taken here.

Edit: Look at the switches on the Happ Competition (8-way). There are only four switches.



2nd edit: Here's a Wico 8-way leaf switch stick

« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 11:06:13 am by Ginsu Victim »

_Iz-

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2009, 12:22:48 pm »
The difference between 4-way and 8-way has nothing to do with the number of switches.

A 8-way stick is unrestricted and can hit 2 switches at once to register the diagonals.

A 4-way stick has a metal or plastic plate built into the base of the joystick (or a different sized actuator on the bottom of the shaft) that will not allow the stick to press 2 switches at once. It can only hit Up or Left or Right or Down, not combinations that make diagonals.

The cheaper 4-ways use the different sized actuator method (ie: Happ Supers can be set to 4 or 8way by flipping the actuator).

The better quality 4-ways use the metal or plastic plate method. This is generally preferred because it allows you to feel the corners and eliminates the tendency to drift from the direction you're trying to go.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 12:26:58 pm by _Iz- »

Ginsu Victim

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2009, 12:23:53 pm »
Which I already pointed out.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2009, 12:29:03 pm »
Which I already pointed out.

You did, but to someone that is having trouble grasping the concept it's helpful to point out how it actually does work as well as how it doesn't...

Ginsu Victim

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2009, 12:30:03 pm »
I just didn't go too much into detail. I thought if he still didn't grasp it, I would.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2009, 08:31:26 am »
I totally grasped it and that is what I thought 100% all along.. It was just one of those momment where I thought I might be over thinking it and sure enough that was the case.. Thanks everyone for your in-depth descriptions.

jholman76

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2009, 07:47:43 pm »
wow, that looks deliciously easy to hack. how is the USB cable connection to the PCB? is it solid? the last pad I got from DX actually came apart there so I had to re-solder and hot glue it down.

IG-88

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2009, 10:12:26 pm »
Got mine today too. Can't wait to try this baby out. Got a bartop just sitting & waiting for it  ;D
"I know what a HAL 9000 is... I was wondering if HAL 7600 was his retarded cousin or something..."
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dmworking247

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2009, 10:58:38 pm »
It arrived and I took it apart. I took some photos for you. I don't know what to do now because I don't have any controls, but I do have a multimeter if anyone wants me to test anything.



Just a word of warning (based on looking at this picture). It will be super easy to solder to these dedicated solder points, and the fact that the shoulder buttons have three wires (not four) is good because it means they are not part of a matrix and can be chopped off if not required.

HOWEVER, that D-Pad looks like many others I have hacked and appears to be matrixed, NOT a common ground... which means it may give you a little bit more trouble (need to figure out which is the ground for up/left, and which is the ground for down/right, and which/whether either of those is the same ground for the buttons and select/start etc.

The one I originally linked to in this thread is definately one ground. Many aftermarket playstation2 controllers are common ground for everything except the select/start/analog button... but many 'super cheap' chinese controllers have matrixed (not common ground) d-pads, as this one appears to have.

jholman76

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2009, 12:36:48 am »
Interesting to know.

I can vouch for the GGG pads having a common ground for everything. Been "testing" it out for a good few weeks. she plays SFII, KI, and everything else without a hitch!

abzman2000

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2009, 02:15:18 am »
It seems to me that the up/right have there ground as the little horizontal jumper, and the rest all have a common ground.  It doesn't seem to be a problem to connect both grounds (since the 2 grounds connecting doesn't make a button press) but I may be very wrong...


edit: actually it would cause a problem (both the left and right would have the same button press) but if you just don't use 2 of the buttons then the entire controller has a common ground, otherwise there are 2 grounds. 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2009, 02:18:55 am by abzman2000 »

Beretta

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2009, 05:46:30 pm »
guys dont discount the analog sticks, i can think of a lot of useful hacks for not one but TWO analog sticks not to mention all the inputs you can squeeze out of a single pad.

example: one of the projects i'd like to do is find a dead positional gun cabinet.. terminator 2, rev-x, etc

they use analog joysticks they're not real light guns, a single pad could supply 2 guns + all control/coin/service buttons needed.

although i've never done it since i dont have a positional gun to toy with it should be a simple matter of wiring up the pot's

and although it's not "arcade authentic" you could use positional guns in place of actual light guns for light gun games, then no worries about what kind of display you have or rather or not your gun will work.

btw does anyone know where you can buy positional gun replacements? preferably t2 since it has recoil? i know a few people have made hacks for recoil in mame with t2.

nice condition gutted t2 cab on ebay for like 75bucks but way to far for me to drive :(
Anyone got change for a dollar?
PLEASE HELP NEED Fastmame .70 and .9* releases

sinkhead

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2009, 07:05:47 pm »
wow, that looks deliciously easy to hack. how is the USB cable connection to the PCB? is it solid? the last pad I got from DX actually came apart there so I had to re-solder and hot glue it down.
Yep, it's solid. There's already glue over the connection on the back.

wachin

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #67 on: July 09, 2009, 07:38:11 pm »
Thanks for the updates w/ the $6 controllers!  I just got mine and found them really easy to hack.  I just soldered 1 common ground for Left, Down and the 10 buttons and then a separate ground for the Up & Right and all is good.  Now if only my order for my joystick and buttons from Lizardlick would arrive... even with the SF4 backorders, I was sure that a LL order would get here much sooner than a Dealextreme order...

IG-88

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #68 on: July 09, 2009, 10:05:22 pm »
Ya, mine took 11 days.

Forgive my ignorance but why couldn't you use just one ground?
"I know what a HAL 9000 is... I was wondering if HAL 7600 was his retarded cousin or something..."
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #69 on: July 09, 2009, 11:39:07 pm »
Like its been mentioned before, the D-pad is matrixed, so when you look at the leads, the Left & Right are the same.  This is also the case with the Up & Down.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess the thinking here from the manufacturer is that it's impossible to press both Left & Right simultaneously.  Same for Up & Down.  So they're actually the same but the uncommon ground differentiates the two (or something along those lines?)

Anyway, the attached photo shows where I soldered my 2 grounds and the directional buttons.

Beretta

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2009, 05:31:54 pm »
thanks for the picture.

those pads look like a cheap way to wire up your controls.. not the easiest or even the cleanest but certanly a cost effective one.. at their price you could just mount them under your control panel if you have one your swap.

cost per input with these: 46 cents
keywiz eco: 65
ipac4: 1.25
Anyone got change for a dollar?
PLEASE HELP NEED Fastmame .70 and .9* releases

IG-88

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #71 on: August 05, 2009, 03:26:40 pm »
Found these on ePay:   http://tinyurl.com/lboc27


I think they are the exact same thingas the DX ones above. Buying 6 at a time w/free shipping brings the price down too $4.50 a piece. Not to shabby.  Maybe I'll order some and see if the innards are the same, if there is any interest.  :dunno
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Beretta

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2009, 03:43:15 pm »
hmm 4.50 each with free shipping.. not bad, kinda sucks you gotta buy 6 of them though.. but if you got several projects these would be a cheap way to go.

btw their description is wrong "12 Fire Button 4 Axis "
it would be 2 axis 10 button. (left/right is one axis + -, same for up/down)

i recently bought a pair off ebay, a little more then the ones you found but can get 2 instead of 6, (2 for 10)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370227266989

these was SUPER easy to hack, and will be using them again.
they look very similar to the ones GGG is carrying now.
Anyone got change for a dollar?
PLEASE HELP NEED Fastmame .70 and .9* releases

IG-88

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #73 on: August 05, 2009, 03:49:04 pm »
I like those too. Just .45c more each and you only get 2. Nice find.  :applaud:
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #74 on: August 10, 2009, 02:41:22 pm »
Like its been mentioned before, the D-pad is matrixed, so when you look at the leads, the Left & Right are the same.  This is also the case with the Up & Down.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess the thinking here from the manufacturer is that it's impossible to press both Left & Right simultaneously.  Same for Up & Down.  So they're actually the same but the uncommon ground differentiates the two (or something along those lines?)

Anyway, the attached photo shows where I soldered my 2 grounds and the directional buttons.


Did you just remove these 2 little boards then?

And I forgot to ask, what do you use to remove the ??lacquer?? from the solder points? Cant you just lightly sand them to insure a good joint?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 02:47:10 pm by IG-88 »
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2009, 03:20:01 pm »
Use a variable speed Dremel with a wire wheel, set at the lowest speed.  Use gentle pressure.  Clean the area with rubbing alcohol once you have removed the lacquer.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #76 on: August 10, 2009, 04:10:22 pm »
you can remove those 2 solder button boards, they only give a platform for the buttons to press against.. since you're hacking it and just using wires this is'nt needed.

carefully desolder the wires running to the main boards, usually there will be 3 wires, although sometimes more, on these particular pads there is only 3.

if memory servs the center is ground and on either side is one of the buttons.

once you've desoldered htem you can run your wire though the holes on the main board.. this makes for easy and strong joint.

this is where i tapped into the ground.. you can do one side or you can do both sides if you wanted 2 grounds.. but you only need 1 ground.

as for cleaning the board, some fine sand paper.. i suggest doing this by hand and not a dremel.. infact you can probably get by with just rubbing alcohol..

anyway take some fine sand paper.. say 500+ rub it a few times.. be gentle you only need a little.. then clean it with alochol.. then put some solder on the traces like you're tinning  wire.. you just need a dab to gain a foot hold on the board.

then tin your wire and solder it to the tab thats on the board.

what i did was then use zip ties to try and secure the wires to the board.. i wrapped the wire around the zip tie so that they would'nt easily be yanked off the board..

then i used the zip ties as mounts of sort and put staples though them mounted to a piece of scrap MDF.. they're not sold on there but they're not gonna go anywhere.

the pads i was working had a cap on the back which prohibited flush mounted with screws.

i plan to finish it up with some terminal block's

as for the D-pad these ones are matrix as some one pointed out..

you can't have an axis without a + and a -, there for it can only be one or the other at a time.

what you do is solder either up or down, and left or right.. you only need to do this 1 wire per axis.

next follow the circuit you'll see one side is linked to common ground for all other buttons.. and 1 side is linked to a secondary ground, it may possibly be the same ground with a resistor on it, as iirc this secondary ground is 2.5v while the common ground is 5v

i had not tested with a resistor but why bother when it's already done on the board.

there is a pro and con to this.

the pro is you only need 14 wires for the whole pad, you have 2 grounds but also only need 2 wires for directional pad.

the con is your forced to use the dpad as either the joy stick which can't acuate more then 2 of those directions at a time.. or asign them to buttons that wont be pressed at the same time.

for most uses this is not a problem, since most will have 4 or 8 ways which this situation can never arise.

all and all these are still great pads for hacking.

a little tip when it doubt break out your multi meter and set it to DC 20 or just DC if it's auto ranging.

on these the positive side is the one that has a circular spot in the trace close to the button.

thats what makes these great because it's very easy to solder to, just connect to to ground and voila you got a button press.
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2009, 04:12:16 pm »
as for cleaning the board, some fine sand paper.. i suggest doing this by hand and not a dremel.. infact you can probably get by with just rubbing alcohol..

I hack about ~100 controllers a year.  Believe me, the Dremel works like a dream.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2009, 05:01:17 pm »
if you want to take off a bunch of material sure, you dont need to.. it's over kill 4 or 5 gentle swipes with some 500 grit is plenty.

these already have exposed areas for soldering, you're just trying to clean the contact area. thats all.
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #79 on: August 11, 2009, 03:24:58 pm »
they look very similar to the ones GGG is carrying now.


I just wanted to make it clear that these boards are very different from the ones in the pads on our store.  There are no matrix / analog shenanigans with ours.  Only common ground on all of the inputs, in case that's important to you.  I wouldn't have stocked them otherwise ;).

RandyT

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #80 on: August 11, 2009, 06:09:54 pm »
randy do you have a shot of the pads taken apart so i can compare circuit boards?

also how are you able to get dpad axis with out this type of setup?

IE: you can have + or - not both at the same time (that would be illogical).. or do your pads show up as 14 buttons and no axis at all?

i've never seen a gamepad or a joystick that did'nt have X/Y axis


EDIT: never mind i found a picture from earlier in the thread.
you're right those appear to have a common ground for everything..

question: what happens when you wire it to controls and use left and right or up and down at the same time? thats assuming it still represents the d-pad as X/Y axis to the computer.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 09:45:15 pm by Beretta »
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2009, 06:21:43 pm »
Hey Beretta,

Would/could you run your ground from the 1st spot or 2nd on this?
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2009, 08:04:57 pm »
yup looks like you got the right idea, although you could follow that circuit on the d-pad secondary ground and there looks to be a piece of metal being used as a jumper..

i've marked it this would b ea lot easier to solder to then the d-pads contacts.

i've also marked the other solder points.. please double check with a multi meter as this pad is slightly different then the one i just recently hacked, mine had turbo buttons but looks to be made by the same people as everything else looks the same.

if you desolder the top fire buttons you can get rid of their clutter also you can use their holes as a easy way to solder your wires, just tin the wire, stick it through the hole and put a little heat on it.

but you look like you got a good handle on it already.

also a tip dont solder the up or right.. or if you solder the up or right dont bother soldering the left and down.

x-axis + ground = left
x-axis + secondary ground = right

y-axis + ground = down
y-axis + secondary ground = up

or

left/right + ground = left
left/right + secondary ground = right
up/down + ground = down
up/down + secondary ground = up

like i said double check with a multi meter before soldering but what i've marked shoudl be correct..

EDIT: important tip: do not solder while it is plugged into anything like your computer.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 08:07:58 pm by Beretta »
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #83 on: August 11, 2009, 08:20:50 pm »
yup looks like you got the right idea, although you could follow that circuit on the d-pad secondary ground and there looks to be a piece of metal being used as a jumper..

Ya, I saw that little jumper too. Thought about using it but I think the other will be better/easier too use.

Thanks for the tips on not soldering those extra inputs. (I was gonna) I'm not sure why you don't have to but I'll take your word for it.  ;D
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #84 on: August 12, 2009, 01:43:55 am »
Thanks for the tips on not soldering those extra inputs. (I was gonna) I'm not sure why you don't have to but I'll take your word for it.  ;D

Essentially, because "Left" & "Right" are the same input and "Up" & "Down" are the same input, they are only differentiated by their Ground.  So you can just daisy chain the input from Left to Right and then run one Ground to Left and the other Ground to Right.  Same goes for Up & Down.  Both have the same input from the board, but Up has one ground and Down has the other.  This is just echoing what IG-88 has already posted.

If the board had one common ground, there would be 4 directional inputs and a daisy chained ground for them all.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #85 on: August 12, 2009, 07:16:00 am »
ya like wachin pointed out.. it's kind a double edge sword.

on one hand you gotta remember to use the D-pad inputs for joy sticks or at least buttons that wont be pressed at the same time.

on the other hand it cuts the number of transmission wires needed since you effectively get 4 inputs with just 4 wires.. 2 for the axis and 2 for ground

just requires a little bit different wiring at the joystick.

if everything used a common ground you'ed need 5 wires, 4 inputs + 1 ground.
functionally you'ed gain nothing since you can't do up + down, or left + right physically on joy stick in the first place.

this also helped in my case since im gonna use a 25pin printer cable, 6 buttons each + start = 11 inputs for each player.. since i need 2 grounds but also 2 less input wires, it's a 11 wires * 2 = 22 leaving 3 pins left over, enough to get 5 & 12 volt lines to the control panel for lights and what not later on if needed.

if it used a common ground for all inputs then it would 12 (11inputs + 1 ground) wires each needed * 2 = 24.. so no room left for 5 or 12 volt feeds..

so this matrix setup on the D-pads can actually be beneficial in the right situation.
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #86 on: August 13, 2009, 12:31:34 pm »
so this matrix setup on the D-pads can actually be beneficial in the right situation.

If you step back and take a look at all of this discussion about how to wire the board, it's not hard to come to the conclusion that a matrix setup is never beneficial to the user, if for no other reason than increased complexity.  Making sure the D-Pad is connected to the stick is pretty much a "no-brainer", as this is an OS thing that would be a requirement, regardless of the pad (or controller) being used.

Matrix setups are solely to the benefit of the hardware manufacturer.  They allow less capable devices to handle more inputs, but in cases where slow processors are used, they can introduce lag.  And lag really can be a concern on these types of inexpensive controllers.  While they can be a good choice for a small panel that is being made as cheaply as possible, there really is no comparing them with a fast controller with dedicated inputs like the GP-Wiz for serious gaming.

RandyT

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #87 on: August 13, 2009, 04:14:51 pm »
well that maybe true, but testing the pads before hacking i seen no "lag" i know this can be a problem on hacked keyboards, but i honestly dont see this being a problem on these pads.

if im wrong i'll come back and eat crow.

obviously one without a matrixed dpad and a common ground for everything is preferable for no other reason then simplified wiring.

although in this particular case saving those 2 extra transmission wires lets me put 5 or 12v power on the cable for future use with led's or something, so it DOES have a benefit in this situation.

you are right about why they would use a matrix setup in the first place.. but lets look at this.. we know it's naively supporting 2 out of 4 directions, correct? you can't press more then 2 at a time, like i said the computer would'nt understand an axis being both + and - from center at the same time, thats illogical in the first place.


also the pads you have i assume that they still represent the dpad to the computer as X/Y axis. so what happens if you press left + right at the same time? or up and down?

im guessing it either 1. dont work, or simply registers right blocking left,
or 2. causes a fault that requires you to remove/reinsert the usb connector.

so you'ed still be forced to use it as the joystick, i can't see what you possibly gain other then a little simpler to wire, of course there is the possible buffer or que overflow but it think that possibility is rather remote even on these cheap matrixed pads.

now dont get me wrong the pads your selling are fine, im not digging at those because like i said it's still preferable i just dont imagine the "lag" will be a issue even on these cheap pads.

btw im curious how many button presses can the ones you're selling handle per second? i ask this because not having a matrix pad can still leads to that lag you was talking about if it has a small buffer, and no offense but those look like cheap chinese pads as well.. perhaps a better cheap chinese pad but still a cheap chinese pad.

and i do like the price point of your key wiz eco, but this setup is ultimately half the price.
and if you're not making a franken panel.


PS. i need some terminal blocks to finish up my controls for easier wiring, the ones you have can you give me the dimensions of them? i already mounted my pads on some wood so i only have so much space to fit the blocks on.

also any quantity discounts on your electric ice buttons? im gonna need like 40 of them for my 2nd project i plan on placing a order but im still tallying up everything i need cause im gonna be doing 2 or 3 projects, im doing them one at a time but i wanna try and get everything at once to save on shipping and so i'll have it on hand.
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #88 on: August 13, 2009, 05:46:02 pm »
well that maybe true, but testing the pads before hacking i seen no "lag" i know this can be a problem on hacked keyboards, but i honestly dont see this being a problem on these pads.

if im wrong i'll come back and eat crow.

"Lag" tends to be one of those things you don't notice until you notice it ;).  That may sound funny, but it's true.  It depends on the game you are playing, and so on.  When you tend to see it is when you have been using a cheap hack for a while, and then upgrade to a "real" interface.  I can absolutely tell the difference between the two when playing.  My first panel used hacks, btw.

Quote
you are right about why they would use a matrix setup in the first place.. but lets look at this.. we know it's naively supporting 2 out of 4 directions, correct? you can't press more then 2 at a time, like i said the computer would'nt understand an axis being both + and - from center at the same time, thats illogical in the first place.

Correct, and it's a perfectly reasonable thing for the manufacturer to do.  But it adds processing steps to implement it, and believe me when I tell you that the processors used on these dirt cheap controllers are the "bottom of the barrel".  It can make a difference.  Whether it does to any one individual will depend on them and the types of games they like to play.

Quote
also the pads you have i assume that they still represent the dpad to the computer as X/Y axis. so what happens if you press left + right at the same time? or up and down?

im guessing it either 1. dont work, or simply registers right blocking left,
or 2. causes a fault that requires you to remove/reinsert the usb connector.

so you'ed still be forced to use it as the joystick, i can't see what you possibly gain other then a little simpler to wire, of course there is the possible buffer or que overflow but it think that possibility is rather remote even on these cheap matrixed pads.

Heh.  None of what you are saying would be likely on any of these.  There is always some rule by which the programmer handles this situation.  On the pads from our store, it first goes back to center, and when pressed again, it goes that direction.  They would never "overflow" or cause a "USB fault".

Quote
btw im curious how many button presses can the ones you're selling handle per second? i ask this because not having a matrix pad can still leads to that lag you was talking about if it has a small buffer, and no offense but those look like cheap chinese pads as well.. perhaps a better cheap chinese pad but still a cheap chinese pad.

They are.  But the fact that the processor has more direct inputs probably indicates a better processor.  At minimum, it is one which does not need extra routines to de-multiplex input, possibly using cycles not easily spared.

BTW, I don't really care where folks purchase their gamepads from.  It's not even worth talking about in a "business" sense, for the 10 a year we seem to sell ;).  But folks need to know that they are not all created equal, and that they do not perform nearly as well as real interface.  Sometimes the money is better spared elsewhere, but this will depend on individual needs and expectations.

RandyT

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #89 on: August 13, 2009, 08:29:58 pm »
well dont worry i'll be sure to let everyone know how they work out, i already bought a 2nd pair im gonna hack later tonight or tomorrow for furture use, i've got some playstation pads already hacked but dont need the analog so thats why i bought these cheap usb ones.

i dont want some laggy controls and i mostly play side scrollers and fighters so im sure if anything the lag would be apparent on fighters.

but like i said if they suck i'll eat crow.

anyway what about below

PS. i need some terminal blocks to finish up my controls for easier wiring, the ones you have can you give me the dimensions of them? i already mounted my pads on some wood so i only have so much space to fit the blocks on.

also any quantity discounts on your electric ice buttons? im gonna need like 40 of them for my 2nd project i plan on placing a order but im still tallying up everything i need cause im gonna be doing 2 or 3 projects, im doing them one at a time but i wanna try and get everything at once to save on shipping and so i'll have it on hand.
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #90 on: August 18, 2009, 08:15:06 pm »

Here's some information on hacking the Deal Extreme 'ultra hackable' USB game controller. (at the time of writing, US$9.19 each with free delivery).

With this controller, you can get 4 directions + 10 buttons (4 face buttons, 2x2 trigger buttons, plus start and select).
This could be used to give you a 1 player, 8 button with credit & start.
or 2 players with one button each, and a single credit / start button.

So I finally got around to hacking the original USB controller from the 1st post and was pleasantly surprised to find that it actually had 16 inputs!  Aside from the obvious 4 directions and 10 buttons, the analog sticks can be pushed in and register as buttons 11 & 12.

This would be a great setup for a simple 2 player CP with 2 action buttons and their own coin & start buttons.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #91 on: October 09, 2009, 01:11:52 pm »
This thread has really helped me out and made me decide to try and hack a couple of controllers. What I am doing is actually for an old Atari DB9 style joystick. What I wanted to be able to do is to wire the DB9 directly to the directional spots on the game pad. This would allow me to swap this joystick with any other game pad. Im doing the same thing with a NES controller. When it all works, I wont have to change any config settings when I change from one controller to the other.

So, my question is, how do I wire this if I do not have a common ground? The pad I have is almost identical to the one pictured above. It appears that the Left and Down share a common ground, but Right and Up have a different ground. The DB9 plug for the Atari does have a common ground.

Am I asking the right questions? What do I need to do so I do not have to change any configs when I swap controllers?

Thanks for any help.


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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #92 on: October 09, 2009, 01:33:05 pm »
if you dont have a common then you'll need to run a seperate wire for each button.. so 2 wires for each button instead of 1 + common.
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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #93 on: October 09, 2009, 04:37:46 pm »
I have hacked a game pad to test it to see how it was. Its performance was great, No lag, Just worked perfect. Ive just bought another 2 to hack. I do have one concern though. For example, Pad 1 Button 10 is credit and Pad 2 button 10 is escape, What is to stop pad 1 becoming pad 2 after restarting the computer?

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #94 on: October 09, 2009, 07:04:12 pm »
Isn't Windows great?  Actually, if the pads are named differently or have a different ID then this can be handled with JoyIDs.  I'm sure there's a link in the Wiki somewhere, but I couldn't find it.

http://www.wingmanteam.com/latest_software/gadgets.htm

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #95 on: October 09, 2009, 08:29:18 pm »
Hmmm, I will give that a try tomorrow

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2010, 08:22:43 am »
This is a great thread and has convinced me that usb controller hack would be the way to go rather than keyboard hack.

Here's my question. I found this controller at gamestop. Would this be a good option for the controller hack?

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=28592

Sorry for the newb question. I am a newb, though, so I guess it's fitting

Paul

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #97 on: August 27, 2010, 01:51:12 pm »
This is a old thread about hacking a USB gampad NOT a PS2 gamepad.  If you want to hack a USB gamepad, I STRONGLY suggest you get a USB gamepad NOT a PS2 gamepad!  Also nobody can tell how easy a gamepad will be to hack without seeing the inside of the gamepad.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 02:06:17 pm by JustMichael »

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #98 on: August 27, 2010, 02:02:30 pm »
I could've done without the condescension JustMichael. Like I said, I'm new here. I found a topic that I thought matched what I was asking.

To be honest I don't have a PS2 controller to know how they connect to the console. I thought that perhaps they connect via USB.

If it's not proper for people to comment on "long dead" threads then why are they still here? Maybe they should be marked read-only?

Better yet, I'll find a forum that's a bit more welcoming.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #99 on: August 27, 2010, 02:09:23 pm »
That JustMichael is justmean!  :afro:

If you are looking for a controller for your PC, you'll either need a wired 360 controller or USB controller.  PS2 controllers have their own style connector that won't connect to a PC on its own.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #100 on: August 27, 2010, 02:12:19 pm »
Thanks HarumaN. That clears things up for me. I'm a Nintendo guy since the NES days (trying to regain a little street cred here) so I'm really not familiar with the PS2. That makes sense though.

I'll probably wind up buying the controller originally listed in this thread then and hack it.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #101 on: August 27, 2010, 02:14:10 pm »
Thanks HarumaN. That clears things up for me. I'm a Nintendo guy since the NES days (trying to regain a little street cred here) so I'm really not familiar with the PS2. That makes sense though.

I'll probably wind up buying the controller originally listed in this thread then and hack it.

That would work.  And, in all fairness, the controller in the beginning of this thread looks a lot like a PS2 controller.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #102 on: October 14, 2011, 04:02:26 am »
It arrived and I took it apart. I took some photos for you. I don't know what to do now because I don't have any controls, but I do have a multimeter if anyone wants me to test anything.

I bought a couple of these on DealExtreme for $5,80. Is it just me, or is it something strange with UP and RIGHT on this board?

For me it seemed like you would need a common wire for up and right, and you could not use ground. If you did, it went DOWN or LEFT instead...(?).

For that I needed to solder to one of the buttons, as it didn't have any solder spots. I used a 30W solder iron, and it actually broke the buttons on the PCB.   :angry:

I did an easy hack - I just scraped off some of the plastic PCB, so that I came down to the metal, added some flux, and soldered without problems.
I will attach a couple of pictures later, as the finished result (after my crappy soldering) worked perfectly!

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2012, 10:32:14 am »
I've been doing this since gamepads were gameport only (not USB). Easy enough if you know what yer doin'. The USB mouse board to arcade trackball is a bit more involved, but still no big whoop if you know what to do.

wild_eyed

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #105 on: September 26, 2013, 07:49:33 pm »
Sorry to druge this up....
but does anyone know where i can find a cheap easy hack usb keyboard???
the dx link on page one is dead.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #106 on: September 26, 2013, 08:26:38 pm »
This discussion is primarily USB gamepads.  USB keyboards have severe limitations and do not hack well as controllers. 

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #107 on: September 26, 2013, 09:45:19 pm »
Sorry to druge this up....
but does anyone know where i can find a cheap easy hack usb keyboard???
the dx link on page one is dead.

Either use a Minimus AVR and the KADE firmware or Degenatrons mentioned that if you recompile the KADE source code for ATMega32u4, you can use this chinese board (looks like an inexpensive knockoff of the Sparkfun Pro Micro) since,
Quote
atmega32u4 IC is entirely compatible with the previous KADE firmwares whilst providing more pins + analog.


Scott

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$9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #108 on: September 27, 2013, 01:50:59 am »
In this hobby, one thing I do not miss is pad hacks.  I am damn good at them but will never do another one again. One bad wire pull and it never works right again.  If you are on a tight budget, listen to Scott.


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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #109 on: September 27, 2013, 06:10:12 am »
You can find all sorts of cheap USB interfaces on eBay. I think I paid like $10 for the last one I bought - With cables included! Just connect to the buttons and you're ready to hook up the USB.

The USB pad hack I did earlier will be replaced by one of these USB interfaces.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #110 on: September 27, 2013, 06:32:02 am »
You can find all sorts of cheap USB interfaces on eBay. I think I paid like $10 for the last one I bought - With cables included! Just connect to the buttons and you're ready to hook up the USB.

The USB pad hack I did earlier will be replaced by one of these USB interfaces.

Lots of inexpensive gamepad-style encoders like the ZD or Xin-Mo, but for low-cost keyboard-style encoders like Wild-eyed was asking about, an AVR Encoder setup has the best price to performance ratio IMHO.


Scott

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #111 on: September 29, 2013, 02:01:31 pm »
what was the "Kade" i kinda remember something about it.... did it not pan out?

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #112 on: September 29, 2013, 02:57:26 pm »
what was the "Kade" i kinda remember something about it.... did it not pan out?

(older prototype version)

The KADE has turned out great and the team is working on still more firmwares and developing an expanded hardware platform with analog inputs, but I figured you were looking for an inexpensive solution, so I suggested getting an inexpensive AVR, doing the soldering yourself, and using the KADE firmware.

That's the nice thing about the KADE project -- it's open source so you can either buy the finished product from them here or buy the hardware from another source and use their firmware to "roll your own" as the saying goes.

You can also compile the source code to work with a different board like I did (with help from Jon :cheers:) for the ATMega32U4 in this analog stick build which is based on the USB HID Joystick firmware with a few added lines of code to handle the analog to digital conversion.

The KADE project even has 3rd party developers like Rablack97 who has a working prototype here for automated switching between PC and XBox.


Scott

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #113 on: September 29, 2013, 07:11:26 pm »

Either use a Minimus AVR and the KADE firmware or Degenatrons mentioned that if you recompile the KADE source code for ATMega32u4, you can use this chinese board (looks like an inexpensive knockoff of the Sparkfun Pro Micro) since,
Quote
atmega32u4 IC is entirely compatible with the previous KADE firmwares whilst providing more pins + analog.


Scott
Hi there,
Can you point me towards any instructions for compiling for ATMega32u4?
I can see instructions for getting the source and dev environment setup for compiling for the Minimus AVR but what needs to changed for a ATMega32u4 target?

Thanks,
John

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« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 08:09:46 pm by wild_eyed »

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #115 on: September 30, 2013, 05:13:48 am »

Either use a Minimus AVR and the KADE firmware or Degenatrons mentioned that if you recompile the KADE source code for ATMega32u4, you can use this chinese board (looks like an inexpensive knockoff of the Sparkfun Pro Micro) since,
Quote
atmega32u4 IC is entirely compatible with the previous KADE firmwares whilst providing more pins + analog.


Scott
Hi there,
Can you point me towards any instructions for compiling for ATMega32u4?
I can see instructions for getting the source and dev environment setup for compiling for the Minimus AVR but what needs to changed for a ATMega32u4 target?

Thanks,
John

You will need to update the makefile to set MCU and remove the board specific setting for minimus
i.e.
MCU = atmega32u4
#BOARD = MINIMUS


That should be enough to compile the firmware but you may need to adapt the pin assignments to suit your avr of choice.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #116 on: September 30, 2013, 06:15:34 am »

Either use a Minimus AVR and the KADE firmware or Degenatrons mentioned that if you recompile the KADE source code for ATMega32u4, you can use this chinese board (looks like an inexpensive knockoff of the Sparkfun Pro Micro) since,
Quote
atmega32u4 IC is entirely compatible with the previous KADE firmwares whilst providing more pins + analog.


Scott
Hi there,
Can you point me towards any instructions for compiling for ATMega32u4?
I can see instructions for getting the source and dev environment setup for compiling for the Minimus AVR but what needs to changed for a ATMega32u4 target?

Thanks,
John

You will need to update the makefile to set MCU and remove the board specific setting for minimus
i.e.
MCU = atmega32u4
#BOARD = MINIMUS


That should be enough to compile the firmware but you may need to adapt the pin assignments to suit your avr of choice.
Thanks, I'll give that a go.

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Re: $9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME
« Reply #117 on: September 30, 2013, 07:22:43 am »
is this good?

http://dx.com/p/arduino-duemilanove-mega-avr-atmega1280-16au-usb-board-118042

or this

http://dx.com/p/diy-funduino-uno-r3-development-board-microcontroller-w-usb-cable-240588

With those two, you would need to recompile the source and possibly adjust the pin addresses/numbers.  :dunno

KADE Loader currently supports AT90USB162 (16k and 32k versions both work fine) and ATMega32U2 boards without recompiling.

AT90USB162 boards are available at various vendors such as:
- Foundmy 16k and 32k
- Modchip Central 16k and 32k (currently out-of-stock)

ATMega32U2 boards are available at various vendors such as:
- CK3.co.uk

If you need up to 20 dedicated inputs + 20 shifted inputs, these will work great with all current KADE firmwares.

Jon is also working on a customisable "impossible keypresses" firmware with up to 26 inputs + 26 shifted inputs for KADE -- that I still need to install and beta test. (Sorry, Jon.  Got a little side-tracked.  :embarassed:)


Scott