Author Topic: Betson 44-4070-RT - Picture is squeezed on right side (Read 17174 times)

grantspain · « **Reply #40 on:** November 29, 2008, 04:50:18 pm »

the only tri sync monitor that i have not heard any geometry problems with is the wells gardner d9400

lettuce · « **Reply #41 on:** December 27, 2008, 08:16:54 am »

Did you ever get this sorted???

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 28, 2008, 06:27:59 pm »

Sorry for the late reply, as I've been busy with the holiday fun at home.

It turns out there was nothing wrong with the Monitor itself. I spent a whole day out at the Betson Headquarters in New Jersey and the tech there (Jose) was very helpful. He did a plethora of tests on it using various game boards at different Hz (including 15Hz) and he had equipment connected that generated signals, etc. The monitor was perfect. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I would not have believed him.

However, I was prepared and took my arcade's computer along for the ride.

We hooked it up and everything was exactly as described in this topic (squeezed on right side).

So there was nothing that they could do, as the monitor was working perfectly and within spec. He suspected that it was the Arcade VGA card.

So, I thanked him and went home. A notion hit me and I made a trip to my friend's house who also has a Betson and AVGA, although he has the AGP version (I have the newer PCIe version). I checked his out and there was no distortion on the right. Hmm. I did some digging and took a look at his mame.ini file. It turns out that he did NOT have the correct settings (switchres was 0; hwstretch was 1, etc). So I corrected the settings so that it equaled mine and Voila, the picture was squeezed on the right side.

So, it turns out that there is NOTHING wrong with the monitor itself and that it's ArcadeVGA related. It doesn't matter which version you have (AGP or PCIe).

So there you have it. The good news is that there is nothing wrong with the monitor. The bad news is that it doesn't work 100% with arcade MAME setups. Boo!

Just curious, any Betson owners having this problem with the "Soft 15 Hz" program?

~ DeLuSioNaL

MonMotha · « **Reply #43 on:** December 28, 2008, 09:59:15 pm »

Well, there's nothing overly special about generating a video signal from a PC video card vs. a signal generator or arcade board unless the timebase on the PC card is wonky. Perhaps your porches/blanking intervals are different than what the monitor wants. Try playing with the porches and seeing what you get. Also, attempt to acquire or borrow the actual arcade board for the game in question. If you can get it to work with the actual board, you should be able to get it to work with your PC by using 100% identical timings.

I'm with Rick N. and qrz on this. There seems to be some issue with the s-correction at CGA timings (EGA, VGA, and SVGA seem fine). This results in a little squish on BOTH sides (the opposite of the "panorama" or "smart stretch" option frequently found on widescreen monitors for dealing with 4:3 content). Squish only on the right side would likely be a different issue and might be related to your source timings. I'd say that the monitor doesn't correct for a flat tube, but it seems fine at other resolutions.

Is yours a KT-2914F or a KT-2914DF? The DF (perfectly flat tube) seems to be a little worse than the F (mostly flat tube). I suspect that they just chucked a flat tube on it without changing anything else. My KT-2914F is pretty good, though it took some settings adjustment to get it so. My friend's KT-2914DF squishes notably even at VGA.

lettuce · « **Reply #44 on:** December 30, 2008, 05:52:48 pm »

Well i have the same problem, but am not using a AracdeVAG card, i have a 7600GT and am using soft15khz program. I have a Tri-Sync Pentranic monitor which has a curved tube!

Ummon · « **Reply #45 on:** December 31, 2008, 04:31:00 pm »

Supposedly the soft15 timings are identical to the AVGA. What a conundrum.

lettuce · « **Reply #46 on:** January 03, 2009, 03:36:19 pm »

Hmmm, but why/how would timings cause this display phenomenon, and just on the right hand side?

Scottk · « **Reply #47 on:** January 03, 2009, 10:42:42 pm »

DeLuSioNal29,

Wow, thank you for going all out on this to determine the problem!

I have your exact same setup.
PCIe ArcadeVGA + Betson 44-4070-RT.

Have you tried contacting Andy after what you found out with Betson?
Since Andy @ Ultimarc is out here, it will be interesting to see what he thinks about it...

ahofle · « **Reply #48 on:** January 05, 2009, 06:00:42 pm »

I recently replaced my Betson with a WG D9400 and there is no squishing at all anymore (same video card and everything). There was also no squishing when I had a regular CGA arcade monitor in there prior to that. So I'm not sure where the problem lies, but I don't think the AVGA is the issue since it works perfectly with other monitors.

Ummon · « **Reply #49 on:** January 07, 2009, 04:18:08 pm »

I'm thinking it has to do with the Betson not wanting to accept the 15khz timings given it via the AVGA/soft15. Maybe what a game board gives out is every so slightly different?

MonMotha · « **Reply #50 on:** January 07, 2009, 05:03:11 pm »

I've noticed linearity issues on "real" game hardware including TMNT and a Neo-Geo. However, it tends to be squished on both sides (though the right is a little worse than the left) and doesn't seem nearly as bad as what people have been describing in this topic.

My unit is a older, though; it's from ~2004, IIRC. It's also a KT-2914F, and I think Betson may now be shipping the KT-2914DF which has a perfectly flat tube, and those tend to exhibit poorer geometry.

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #51 on:** May 01, 2009, 05:43:10 pm »

hello everyone,

im also using the betson with mvs hardware and have the same issues from day 1. why has this discussion stopped, and why does kevin steele not update his damn review with that info cause beside the fact that the monitor is perfect (it sure is) is it is USELESS. the betson crew also has no ansers so far. so much for the warranty and customercare. i piad 3500$ 4 monitors shipped to europe.

grantspain · « **Reply #52 on:** May 01, 2009, 06:24:44 pm »

the simple fact comes down to if you want perfect geometry in 15khz get a 15khz only monitor.
the majority of tri syncs just don't cut the mustard,sanwa pfx and wells gardner d9800 are the only ones with good reviews
being u.k based you would have been better off getting some tv and using the scart input

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #53 on:** May 01, 2009, 06:39:30 pm »

why do you think i should use a tv, i used 20 of them. can you tell me one which has hsize vsize.... settings? i also have a sony pvm2930 studio monitor ( about 1k$ used 6k new) which makes perfect geometry but its just not the same like some cabs i have seen (betson picture is). the actual problem is that the betsons are not acceptable and i dont think betson is gonna pay the shipping back to them and give me my money ( still i loose the shipping costs of 1600$). btw i live in switzerland.

grantspain · « **Reply #54 on:** May 01, 2009, 06:59:26 pm »

like i said if you want perfect gemetry in 15khz get a 15khz monitor,the tri sync monitors have been discussed on almost all the arcade forums and the fact is that wei ya/rodotron/betson/kortek/pentranic all gives side compression problems on 15khz-the fact is that they all look identical chassis
tri syncs that don't give side compression are sanwa pfx pm1755,nanao ms2930,nanao 2931,wells gardner d9xxx
if you get a standard tv then you can match a good chassis to the yoke spec and get a fantastic 15khz or dual frequency monitor-you can pick up chassis for around $60-$150 depending on make and quality

and yeah i don't think betson will give you your money back-so next step maybe is look what you can do with those crt

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #55 on:** June 25, 2009, 06:43:19 pm »

so can you tell me for sure that the d9800 will do correct geometry at 15khz? looks like it is the only one anyone can get.

ahofle · « **Reply #56 on:** June 26, 2009, 05:22:20 pm »

I can tell you that the D9400 has correct geometry. I have yet to hear of a problem with the D9800 also.

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #57 on:** June 30, 2009, 03:30:51 am »

well, i ordered one now. i hope the only the best. can anyone give a statement 9800 vs pfx.
grant, is it the pfx pm1755 or are that 2 monitors?

grantspain · « **Reply #58 on:** June 30, 2009, 11:40:36 am »

yeah pm1755 is the same as pfx

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #59 on:** July 01, 2009, 06:31:57 pm »

john from sts offers me an 200.5949-pfx, is that also the same? btw there is only one pfx?

grant have mailed with amanda from highway games last days?

now i also have an nanao 2934 (any info on that beside its the last nanao?) with no burn in, had some damage in the anti glare coating so i grinded it all off. nice picture but 31k.

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #60 on:** August 09, 2009, 07:16:05 am »

ok, so i got the wg d9800 and the sanwa pfx and tested them.
the wg makes a picture almost as sharp/vibrant as the betson but i was unlucky, i cant degauss it completly and the geometry isnt perfect (no perfect straigt lines), also on white background in 15khz mode one third of the picture is just a little darker so it looks like a line top to bottom. also the dot pitch is really diferent and visible on the sides which makes 31k
unsharp. the tube is from phillips.

now for the pfx. the test grid is almost perfect but in 15 khz mode it tends a little to squish the sides but only if you track it while scrolling. what really makes me unhappy is that the dot pitch is also diferent on the sides and i have no clue how to access the service menu to try making the picture sharper and more vibrant since the wg makes a sharper picture.
also the tube is from matsushita not from chunghwa.

grant i hope you know how to access that menu. im already thinking of ordering the 2931 chassis for my 2934

grantspain · « **Reply #61 on:** August 09, 2009, 04:39:54 pm »

pfx has on screen display,i expect if you hold the menu button down on power up for 5 seconds then you can access the extended menu,if you really wish i can check my a friend who has many pfx-he has no issues with geometry at all

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #62 on:** August 09, 2009, 06:28:47 pm »

i made some pics to show the side compression, its only on the right side like on the betson. also note that the tube isnt chunghwa anymore its beijing matsushita crt and the chassis is not pm1755, its called KW0606A.

i tried many combinations to acces some extended menu also the 5 second ( up to 60) like you posted on the 2931 thread.

ive spent over 5000$ on monitors so far, so i do wish there is a solution. thanks for your helpings

grantspain · « **Reply #63 on:** August 09, 2009, 07:06:22 pm »

dual focus by any chance?

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #64 on:** August 09, 2009, 11:37:07 pm »

Quote from: Scottk on January 03, 2009, 10:42:42 pm

DeLuSioNal29,

Wow, thank you for going all out on this to determine the problem!

I have your exact same setup.
PCIe ArcadeVGA + Betson 44-4070-RT.

Have you tried contacting Andy after what you found out with Betson?
Since Andy @ Ultimarc is out here, it will be interesting to see what he thinks about it...

Well, we can officially rule out the Arcade VGA line of cards as being the culprit. Two days ago I just upgraded my video card to the Gigabyte ATI Radeon HD 4670 w 1GB DDR and Soft-15KHz and I have the same exact squeezing on the right side of my Betson monitor.

Note for those interested: The reason for the upgrade? Street Fighter IV would not run on the puny AVGA2 card. The new card works perfectly with MAME and my monitor. I did not have to change any settings in MAME. (Model # GV-R467ZL-1GI)

~ DeLuSioNaL

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #65 on:** August 10, 2009, 06:15:50 am »

sorry what do you mean by dual focus?

grantspain · « **Reply #66 on:** August 10, 2009, 09:43:11 am »

Quote from: MrMikeZH on August 10, 2009, 06:15:50 am

sorry what do you mean by dual focus?

it means do you have 2 focus adjustments on the flyback transformer,to me that picture looks out of focus on the edges which you normally see in a badly adjusted dual focus monitor

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #67 on:** August 10, 2009, 11:47:49 am »

on the flyback there is only one pot for focus. in 31k its more visible that is maybe because of the diferent dotpitch like on the wg.

grantspain · « **Reply #68 on:** August 10, 2009, 12:26:47 pm »

i don't really understand what you are saying,better off showing a grid test pattern and a colour graduation pattern so i can see whats happening

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #69 on:** August 10, 2009, 04:25:35 pm »

im talking about the monitors mask, on the sides it isnt as fine like in the middle. more pics.
on the betson service menu the h-linearity was broken i hope there is service menu on the pfx with a working h-linearity setting.

ahofle · « **Reply #70 on:** August 11, 2009, 01:21:58 pm »

Those pics look pretty good to me.

DeLuSioNal29 · « **Reply #71 on:** August 11, 2009, 02:05:26 pm »

It's more noticeable in the original pics that I posted here:

Compare the zeros in the Gauntlet snapshots.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=84370.msg883342#msg883342

~ D

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #72 on:** August 11, 2009, 03:31:13 pm »

they are good but there IS side compression you can see it on th puzzle bobble pics and on the first hatch, look at the right edge of the picture. the colors are for grant since he wanted them. would be nice to know if all pfx have such a mask. i just cant figure out how to access some service menu and its a shame that sega dont have a manual for me or any contact or help like betson. betson said they are gonna find a mvs board to test the situation 3 months ago

.

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #73 on:** August 11, 2009, 03:34:10 pm »

delusional, my pics are from th sanwa pfx which should have correct geometry but it doesnt

.

grantspain · « **Reply #74 on:** August 11, 2009, 04:20:34 pm »

i cannot see any geometry problems with thise pics whatsoever,as for the colours then just needs an adjust on the focus-i will contact my pal with 20 pfx to see if he knows the extended menu

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #75 on:** August 11, 2009, 05:52:44 pm »

hmm i made some pics from the wg to compare. like you can see ingame its more dramatic, but wehen scrolling horizontal it just makes you look there

.

grantspain · « **Reply #76 on:** August 11, 2009, 06:11:38 pm »

funny that my puzzle bobble did the same thing on all my test monitors,like a bit of the pic is cut off the right hand side
still can't see much wrong though

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #77 on:** August 11, 2009, 06:18:23 pm »

isnt that wrong for you?

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #78 on:** August 12, 2009, 01:10:18 pm »

i dont know if anyone noticed that but on the wg9800 there is a pot for H.SIZE and thats the only one on the chassis i can see. when i first configured the monitor for mame i noticed that if i set the hsize in the osd to minimum, i still couldnt catch the whole width of the picture by maybe 5pixel. resolution was 392x240 for cps, 320x240 was no problem. so i looked at the chassis and found that pot, now if i lower the size with that pot from standart, the picture gets side compression also. now could we place such a pot on other digital chassis ( betson, pfx) to get rid of the compression like on the wg?
maybe i just talk nonsense

.

MrMikeZH · « **Reply #79 on:** August 15, 2009, 01:11:21 pm »

should i make some videos?
grant what happend to your friend with 20 pfx's?

now i have sold all my betsons, the buyers just dont care about the compression, am i the problem lol?


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