Betson 44-4070-RT - Picture is squeezed on right side

[DeLuSioNal29]

Hi all,

Ever since I installed my Arcade VGA card a few months back, I've noticed that the right side of my monitor seems "squeezed".  I haven't had time to mess around with it, but it's really bugging me now.  I've tried using the "secret" menu that has additional options on it, but nothing seems to work.  So, I go to the experts for some advice.   

I've taken several pictures with the monitor test by Nokia running so that you can see the detail of what is happening better.  I've also included a couple of pictures of Gauntlet (look at the keys in the picture and how they distort at the right) and Mortal Kombat 3 (notice now the names of the characters are squeezed on the right side... also notice how subzero looks smaller on the right side).

Any insight on how to fix it would be great.

Here are some pics:

[DeLuSioNal29]

Here are the in game pictures with the problems mentioned above:

Notice on the closeup of Gauntlet, the score that is in RED... the zero's look very different.  The one on the left is perfect.  The one on the right is skinnier.

And again, in MK3, the word Scorpion is squeezed on the right.

[ahofle]

It seems to be a common problem with Betsons these days and the reason I don't recommend them.  Mine does the same thing.  It's a shame because everything else about the monitor is perfect to me.  There is nothing that can be done to fix the problem unfortunately (at least nothing that I've heard around here).  Search the monitor forum and you'll find a bunch of other people with this problem. 

Just out of curiosity, did you get yours back when they were on sale ($369) like I did?

[DeLuSioNal29]

Yep, on sale.  And I picked it up myself to save on $120 shipping.   

[ahofle]

Could you add your vote to the poll I just put up?  I'm starting to have a sneaking suspicion that the bad batch of monitors were mostly the ones they put on sale. 

[MonMotha]

Mine is an old one, and while it doesn't do this as badly, it does exhibit it to some effect.  Are these the 2914DF (completely flat) or just the 2914F (moslty flat) variety?  The DFs may do it a little worse as perfectly flat CRTs tend to have poorer geometry.

This can be reduced a bit at the slight expense of perfectly straight edges (just overscan the picture ever so slightly to make it appear straight again).  Skew the picture with trapezoid so that the top is skewed to the left.  Then correct it back out using parallelogram, pincushion, pinbalance, and top/bottom corner (in that order).

[ahofle]

I don't suppose you could post a little more detailed guide to doing the corrections?  I have tried many different things and had no luck at all.

[Ummon]

I wouldn't call that squished. I'd call it stretched. Like around a curved surface, inward (away from the viewer). I've found this can happen depending on how the monitor interprets (or misinterprets?) the signal being sent, and sometimes little tweaks in the modeline can help or rectify it. (Advancemame, yes, the chosen one. May it rise again.)

[qrz]

just curious, would there happen to be a horizontal linearity control anywhere ? ( pot/coil/menu setting )


qrz

[MonMotha]

just curious, would there happen to be a horizontal linearity control anywhere ? ( pot/coil/menu setting )

qrz

There is one in the service menu.  However, the squish is only on the VERY far right side of the screen.  Only affects about the last two columns of the grid pattern on a neo-geo test screen (if you want a reference).  The Horiz linearity control affects the linearity of the whole screen pretty well equally across the entire screen.  Further, even adjusting the controll all the way to the appropriate extreme doesn't fix this, and it can make the rest of the screen appear squishy in the other direction, too.

As for the adjustment I performed, I did it a long time ago when I spent several hours (!!) messing with my monitor.  What I said before is about all I remember.  Basically, it involves intentionally making something bad then correcting it back out using other options to reduce the linearity issue at the expense of perfect edge geometry.  What I did didn't fix it completely, but it made it a bit better.  Mine wasn't all that bad to begin with, though.  This is a much older monitor than many people on here seem to have (I actually bought it used almost 3 years ago).

Another thing to watch out for that can make things like this worse is abuse of the corner controls.  The top/bottom corner controls are a last minute tweak.  You should get everything else as close as you possibly can before adjusting them.  If you overuse the corner controls, it will squish other parts of the screen.

[qrz]

tnx for the comment, MonMotha

hmmmm, it now sounds like a minor engineering change may be in order . 

happen to have a  link for the schematic ?

qrz

[DeLuSioNal29]

just curious, would there happen to be a horizontal linearity control anywhere ? ( pot/coil/menu setting )

Yes, it does have it, but in the advanced menu (Hold the UP key while powering up the monitor).  But adjusting it does not help.

~ D

[MonMotha]

tnx for the comment, MonMotha

hmmmm, it now sounds like a minor engineering change may be in order . 

happen to have a  link for the schematic ?

qrz

http://www.retroblast.com/files/KT-XX14X-SM.pdf

Let me know if you happen to come up with any ideas.  Mine isn't too bad, and this isn't too noticable anyway on most of the games I play, but this seems to be REALLY bad for some people.

[qrz]

tnx for the print . would be easier if had the model to play with   
c'est la vie !

just for kicks , MonMotha, lets raise the value of c701 to 2.2uF or 4.7uF @50v and see what/if it changes.

pse advvise results..... tnx

qrz

[MonMotha]

tnx for the print . would be easier if had the model to play with   
c'est la vie !

just for kicks , MonMotha, lets raise the value of c701 to 2.2uF or 4.7uF @50v and see what/if it changes.

pse advvise results..... tnx

Well, you're welcome to come tinker with mine some time

I don't have good stock on components like this (I mostly do digital), so I'll have to acquire those before I can try it out.  May be several weeks (and/or months).

[qrz]

just watch for junk tv's/electronics on trash day .  can get plenty of "test" parts - CHEAP   

qrz

[qrz]

based upon this thread : http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=84372.0;viewResults

there may be need for a yoke modification, or perhaps just in the 15khz yoke timing circuitry .

i wonder if Rickn would happen to have any "dirt" on this  ?

qrz

[Rickn]

Yes, this is a horizontal linearity problem and thr fix will br thr value of one of the horizontal hi voltage caps. I do not have a schematic and have not seen the Kortek in question, but these caps are usually close to the flyback and HOT' Thet are polyrpopelen usualy 1.5 kv rated.

In the case of multi sync monitorsm various values are switched in and out of circuit depending on the resolution. The trick will be determining which ones are in the circuit in standard res. one will determine primarily the width, the second is the "S" capacitor and it effects the width but also shapes the sawtooth waveform that causes the horizontal sweep,

This is not an excercise for someone who does not know what they are doing and for sure you better have spare parts.

Good luck
Rick

[MonMotha]

The schematic (URL posted above) details the S-correction fairly well.  There are 3 S-correction signals output from one of the ICs.  These do in fact switch various members in and out in the horizontal output section.  A table is provided as to what the S-correction outputs are (i.e. which ones are one and off) at various resolutions.

[qrz]

tnx Rickn .

the consensus seems to be that the problem is most prevelent on the 15khz setting .
all 3 caps are then active .
 however,  changing capacitance here will only affect the width , rather than address
the shape of the correction waveform. ( yes , the hv will vary slightly due to duty cycle on the HOT )

the H lin input ( q701,2) and ic701 will be areas of interest ...... now to get a sample to play with .......

qrz

[lettuce]

Have the same damn problem with my Pentranic Quad-Sync 29" Monitor, annoying isnt it!?.

The display is perfect in 25 and 31khz mode, its only in the 15khz mode i have this squished effect on the far right of the screen, sods law that the majority of mame games run in 15khz mode!!!!!  There is an option in the advanced menu that you can alter the HF but it only adjusts the left side of the screen not the right    . I think its just one of those things we'll have to live with!?.

 I am only running mame on my cab via a PC, and dont have jamma at all in the cab, it would be intresting to test the monitor on a proper setup with connecting the monitor to a game pcb board to see if my, pc/gfx card/VGA connections were somehow interfering with the signal my monitor was getting and was causing the problem, but seeings as i dont have jamma this is unlikely to happen.

I did resort to running all my games in double resoultion, with the help of soft15khz program, and setting prescale of mame to '2' instead of the default '1' and enabling the scanline effect, so all your games run in 31khz mode, info here....

http://jvspac.kirurg.org/?page=mame

the only side effect to this was becuase of the scanline effect being applied to the screen, it caused the display not to be as vivid and vibrant as it usually is  .

This is the excel spread sheet i used to get my double screen resolutions to use with soft15khz if your interested in trying this method....

http://jvspac.kirurg.org/files/31k-modecalculator%20v1-0.xls

[Ummon]

Lettuce, if your monitor is capable of 120hz refresh, you don't need to do all that stuff in mame.

[lettuce]

It is capable of doing it, but the spec sheet say its only does up to 90hz. I did ask harry at pentranic if it was safe to use it this way, he said it will work but your just asking for the monitor to fail, as its not designed to be used at that refresh rate. So i stopped using it with 120hz refresh rates, as i didnt want it to shorten the life of the monitor, plus the fact that pentranics have stopped production of these ctr monitors i dont want to risk it really

[Ummon]

Mmmm, yeah, there are a couple games, mainly the later Do's, that I set for 120hz. Perhaps due to a limitation of my card, Advancemame won't run a clock lower than 5, so I run those at 120. It otherwise runs it at 60hz progressive, and I've messed around with the effects, but it's the difference in brightness that I have a hard time accepting.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Thanks for all the info guys.  I've recently looked into contacting Betson about the problem (monitor is less than a year old).  I don't really want to mess around with anything on the monitor itself.  I'd rather have qualified people do that.  As for the workarounds, again, I'd rather not.  The monitor is supposed to work a certain way so why should I settle for a workaround?  I'll let you know what happens once I contact them.

~ D

[DeLuSioNal29]

Good news.  My unit is still under warranty.   

Better news:  I don't have to ship the whole unit out to them.  I can just send them the PCB board and it will be fixed in 1 week's time.   

I'll post the results once I have everything up and running again.

~ DeLuSioNaL

[Ummon]

Hopefully it's just the chassis.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Update:  I just got off the phone with the technician at Betson and he said it sounds like it's the chassis and not the tube itself.  It has been officially RMA'd.  So I'll have to discharge the monitor and remove the chassis to send it to them.

I'll let you know how it works out.

~ DeLuSioNaL

[ahofle]

Hmm I thought you had already determined that a couple posts above?
I'm watching this with interest!

[DeLuSioNal29]

Hmm I thought you had already determined that a couple posts above?
I'm watching this with interest!

Yes, I had, but I confirmed it by speaking with an actual technician this time.  I just sent it out today.

If I had to guess, he's probably going to recap it.

Either way, I hope the problem gets fixed.

By the way, where did you set up the poll?

~ D

[ahofle]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=84372.0

[DeLuSioNal29]

Update:  They received the monitor yesterday (11/18).  Let's see how long it takes them to fix it.   

[DeLuSioNal29]

Another Update:

Bad news actually.  They received it and the tech tested it out.  He said that nothing was wrong with the chassis and that I'd have to send them the rest of the monitor so that he can check it out and manually adjust it if necessary.  (I'll have to drive it out to them in NJ).
 

I was kind of hoping that they found something wrong with it, but nothing. 

However, I'm thinking that I may just bring the whole arcade out there to show them exactly what is happening, and then I can remove the control panel and computer once I'm done with the "demo" and leave the rest.  (It's a huge pain to remove the monitor, since I removed the brackets from it.  It's easier to just bring the whole arcade.  But I'll have to mull this one over a bit.

Sigh.

~ DeLuSioNaL

[grantspain]

the reason they find no problem is because this geometry issue only exists on 15khz and it will differ using different game boards

[DeLuSioNal29]

the reason they find no problem is because this geometry issue only exists on 15khz and it will differ using different game boards

Not necessarily.  The problem I am having happens in all modes, as shown above in the Nokia screen test shots (native windows program, not MAME).

~ DeLuSioNaL

[grantspain]

the reason they find no problem is because this geometry issue only exists on 15khz and it will differ using different game boards

Not necessarily.  The problem I am having happens in all modes, as shown above in the Nokia screen test shots (native windows program, not MAME).

~ DeLuSioNaL

going via an arcade vga card?

[DeLuSioNal29]

going via an arcade vga card?

That's correct.  The betson Multisync monitor is capable of displaying up to 800 x 600 @ 60Hz.  I have windows running at the highest resolution possible @ 60Hz.  It does not matter what Hz I run at, the problem still persists.

[grantspain]

what we found on kc forum is if you ran these tri syncs with a dedicated 24khz or 31khz signal there were no issues,when a 15khz signal was used this is when the problem began
for example i ran tests on tri sync chassis on different donor tubes
using a sega naomi game at 31khz output gave an almost perfect picture,then running the same game using the 15khz interlaced option of the mobo gave side compression and pretty severe
hooking up to sega med res game like sega rally gave a great picture
then  i hooked up to a few 15khz games and varying amounts of side compression

what i am trying to say is your avga card only puts out a 15khz signal --i may be wrong though as i don't own one
i wonder if you would get the same compression with a standard vga card at 640x480
ignore me if i am talking rubbish

[MonMotha]

what we found on kc forum is if you ran these tri syncs with a dedicated 24khz or 31khz signal there were no issues,when a 15khz signal was used this is when the problem began
for example i ran tests on tri sync chassis on different donor tubes
using a sega naomi game at 31khz output gave an almost perfect picture,then running the same game using the 15khz interlaced option of the mobo gave side compression and pretty severe
hooking up to sega med res game like sega rally gave a great picture
then  i hooked up to a few 15khz games and varying amounts of side compression

what i am trying to say is your avga card only puts out a 15khz signal --i may be wrong though as i don't own one
i wonder if you would get the same compression with a standard vga card at 640x480
ignore me if i am talking rubbish

I have noticed this on mine, though my linearity is nowhere near as bad as some have described.  SVGA, VGA, and EGA timings are all fine.  Things look extremely good.  I hesitate to call it perfect, but it's an amazing monitor.  At CGA timings (15kHz), there is a small amount of compression at the right.  I was able to adjust much of it out using the H Lin control in service mode combined with pin, pinbal, trap, paralelo, and corner controls (though it took a lot of time).

The newer KT-2914DF (which has the perfectly flat tube) does seem to do it just a little even at VGA (seen in a PIU neo-SX cabinet), but I haven't tried to adjust it out at all.

Rick Nieman has suggested it is a design flaw with their s-correction.  I don't think anybody has investigated further.

[Ummon]

Way back Rick also mentioned how unstable these can be due to the wide range of scan rates they try to do. My Billabs will bounce back and forth at 15khz when I call and exit the OSD. In some games, even though they don't change res between different screens, there's a similar effect that occurs.

[grantspain]

the only tri sync monitor that i have not heard any geometry problems with is the wells gardner d9400

[lettuce]

Did you ever get this sorted???

[DeLuSioNal29]

Sorry for the late reply, as I've been busy with the holiday fun at home. 

It turns out there was nothing wrong with the Monitor itself.  I spent a whole day out at the Betson Headquarters in New Jersey and the tech there (Jose) was very helpful.  He did a plethora of tests on it using various game boards at different Hz (including 15Hz) and he had equipment connected that generated signals, etc.  The monitor was perfect.  If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I would not have believed him.

However, I was prepared and took my arcade's computer along for the ride.     We hooked it up and everything was exactly as described in this topic (squeezed on right side).      So there was nothing that they could do, as the monitor was working perfectly and within spec.  He suspected that it was the Arcade VGA card.

So, I thanked him and went home.  A notion hit me and I made a trip to my friend's house who also has a Betson and AVGA, although he has the AGP version (I have the newer PCIe version).  I checked his out and there was no distortion on the right.  Hmm.  I did some digging and took a look at his mame.ini file.  It turns out that he did NOT have the correct settings (switchres was 0; hwstretch was 1, etc).  So I corrected the settings so that it equaled mine and Voila, the picture was squeezed on the right side.   

So, it turns out that there is NOTHING wrong with the monitor itself and that it's ArcadeVGA related.  It doesn't matter which version you have (AGP or PCIe).   

So there you have it.  The good news is that there is nothing wrong with the monitor.  The bad news is that it doesn't work 100% with arcade MAME setups.  Boo!

Just curious, any Betson owners having this problem with the "Soft 15 Hz" program?

~ DeLuSioNaL

[MonMotha]

Well, there's nothing overly special about generating a video signal from a PC video card vs. a signal generator or arcade board unless the timebase on the PC card is wonky.  Perhaps your porches/blanking intervals are different than what the monitor wants.  Try playing with the porches and seeing what you get.  Also, attempt to acquire or borrow the actual arcade board for the game in question.  If you can get it to work with the actual board, you should be able to get it to work with your PC by using 100% identical timings.

I'm with Rick N. and qrz on this.  There seems to be some issue with the s-correction at CGA timings (EGA, VGA, and SVGA seem fine).  This results in a little squish on BOTH sides (the opposite of the "panorama" or "smart stretch" option frequently found on widescreen monitors for dealing with 4:3 content).  Squish only on the right side would likely be a different issue and might be related to your source timings.  I'd say that the monitor doesn't correct for a flat tube, but it seems fine at other resolutions.

Is yours a KT-2914F or a KT-2914DF?  The DF (perfectly flat tube) seems to be a little worse than the F (mostly flat tube).  I suspect that they just chucked a flat tube on it without changing anything else.  My KT-2914F is pretty good, though it took some settings adjustment to get it so.  My friend's KT-2914DF squishes notably even at VGA.

[lettuce]

Well i have the same problem, but am not using a AracdeVAG card, i have a 7600GT and am using soft15khz program. I have a Tri-Sync Pentranic monitor which has a curved tube!

[Ummon]

Supposedly the soft15 timings are identical to the AVGA. What a conundrum.

[lettuce]

Hmmm, but why/how would timings cause this display phenomenon, and just on the right hand side?

[Scottk]

DeLuSioNal29,

Wow, thank you for going all out on this to determine the problem!

I have your exact same setup.
PCIe ArcadeVGA + Betson 44-4070-RT.

Have you tried contacting Andy after what you found out with Betson?
Since Andy @ Ultimarc is out here, it will be interesting to see what he thinks about it...

[ahofle]

I recently replaced my Betson with a WG D9400 and there is no squishing at all anymore (same video card and everything).  There was also no squishing when I had a regular CGA arcade monitor in there prior to that.  So I'm not sure where the problem lies, but I don't think the AVGA is the issue since it works perfectly with other monitors.

[Ummon]

I'm thinking it has to do with the Betson not wanting to accept the 15khz timings given it via the AVGA/soft15. Maybe what a game board gives out is every so slightly different?

[MonMotha]

I've noticed linearity issues on "real" game hardware including TMNT and a Neo-Geo.  However, it tends to be squished on both sides (though the right is a little worse than the left) and doesn't seem nearly as bad as what people have been describing in this topic.

My unit is a older, though; it's from ~2004, IIRC.  It's also a KT-2914F, and I think Betson may now be shipping the KT-2914DF which has a perfectly flat tube, and those tend to exhibit poorer geometry.

[MrMikeZH]

hello everyone,

im also using the betson with mvs hardware and have the same issues from day 1. why has this discussion stopped, and why does kevin steele not update his damn review with that info cause beside the fact that the monitor is perfect (it sure is) is it is USELESS. the betson crew also has no ansers so far. so much for the warranty and customercare. i piad 3500$ 4 monitors shipped to europe.

[grantspain]

the simple fact comes down to if you want perfect geometry in 15khz get a 15khz only monitor.
the majority of tri syncs just don't cut the mustard,sanwa pfx and wells gardner d9800 are the only ones with good reviews
being u.k based you would have been better off getting some tv and using the scart input

[MrMikeZH]

why do you think i should use a tv, i used 20 of them. can you tell me one which has hsize vsize.... settings? i also have a sony pvm2930 studio monitor ( about 1k$ used 6k new) which makes perfect geometry but its just not the same like some cabs i have seen (betson picture is). the actual problem is that the betsons are not acceptable and i dont think betson is gonna pay the shipping back to them and give me my money ( still i loose the shipping costs of 1600$). btw i live in switzerland.

[grantspain]

like i said if you want perfect gemetry in 15khz get a 15khz monitor,the tri sync monitors have been discussed on almost all the arcade forums and the fact is that wei ya/rodotron/betson/kortek/pentranic all gives side compression problems on 15khz-the fact is that they all look identical chassis
tri syncs that don't give side compression are sanwa pfx pm1755,nanao ms2930,nanao 2931,wells gardner d9xxx
if you get a standard tv then you can match a good chassis to the yoke spec and get a fantastic 15khz or dual frequency monitor-you can pick up chassis for around $60-$150 depending on make and quality

and yeah i don't think betson will give you your money back-so next step maybe is look what you can do with those crt

[MrMikeZH]

so can you tell me for sure that the d9800 will do correct geometry at 15khz? looks like it is the only one anyone can get.

[ahofle]

I can tell you that the D9400 has correct geometry.  I have yet to hear of a problem with the D9800 also.

[MrMikeZH]

well, i ordered one now. i hope the only the best. can anyone give a statement 9800 vs pfx.
grant, is it the pfx pm1755 or are that 2 monitors?

[grantspain]

yeah pm1755 is the same as pfx

[MrMikeZH]

john from sts offers me an 200.5949-pfx, is that also the same? btw there is only one pfx?
grant have mailed with amanda from highway games last days?

now i also have an nanao 2934 (any info on that beside its the last nanao?) with no burn in, had some damage in the anti glare coating so i grinded it all off. nice picture but 31k.

[MrMikeZH]

ok, so i got the wg d9800 and the sanwa pfx and tested them.
the wg makes a picture almost as sharp/vibrant as the betson but i was unlucky, i cant degauss it completly and the geometry isnt perfect (no perfect straigt lines), also on white background in 15khz mode one third of the picture is just a little darker so it looks like a line top to bottom. also the dot pitch is really diferent and visible on the sides which makes 31k
unsharp. the tube is from phillips.

now for the pfx. the test grid is almost perfect but in 15 khz mode it tends a little to squish the sides but only if you track it while scrolling. what really makes me unhappy is that the dot pitch is also diferent on the sides and i have no clue how to access the service menu to try making the picture sharper and more vibrant since the wg makes a sharper picture.
also the tube is from matsushita not from chunghwa.

grant i hope you know how to access that menu. im already thinking of ordering the 2931 chassis for my 2934

[grantspain]

pfx has on screen display,i expect if you hold the menu button down on power up for 5 seconds then you can access the extended menu,if you really wish i can check my a friend who has many pfx-he has no issues with geometry at all

[MrMikeZH]

i made some pics to show the side compression, its only on the right side like on the betson. also note that the tube isnt chunghwa anymore its beijing matsushita crt and the chassis is not pm1755, its called KW0606A.

i tried many combinations to acces some extended menu also the 5 second ( up to 60) like you posted on the 2931 thread.

ive spent over 5000$ on monitors so far, so i do wish there is a solution. thanks for your helpings 

[grantspain]

dual focus by any chance?

[DeLuSioNal29]

DeLuSioNal29,

Wow, thank you for going all out on this to determine the problem!

I have your exact same setup.
PCIe ArcadeVGA + Betson 44-4070-RT.

Have you tried contacting Andy after what you found out with Betson?
Since Andy @ Ultimarc is out here, it will be interesting to see what he thinks about it...

Well, we can officially rule out the Arcade VGA line of cards as being the culprit.  Two days ago I just upgraded my video card to the Gigabyte ATI Radeon HD 4670 w 1GB DDR and Soft-15KHz and I have the same exact squeezing on the right side of my Betson monitor.

Note for those interested:  The reason for the upgrade?  Street Fighter IV would not run on the puny AVGA2 card.  The new card works perfectly with MAME and my monitor.  I did not have to change any settings in MAME.  (Model # GV-R467ZL-1GI)

~ DeLuSioNaL

[MrMikeZH]

sorry what do you mean by dual focus?

[grantspain]

sorry what do you mean by dual focus?

it means do you have 2 focus adjustments on the flyback transformer,to me that picture looks out of focus on the edges which you normally see in a badly adjusted dual focus monitor

[MrMikeZH]

on the flyback there is only one pot for focus. in 31k its more visible that is maybe because of the diferent dotpitch like on the wg.

[grantspain]

i don't really understand what you are saying,better off showing a grid test pattern and a colour graduation pattern so i can see whats happening

[MrMikeZH]

im talking about the monitors mask, on the sides it isnt as fine like in the middle. more pics.
on the betson service menu the h-linearity was broken i hope there is service menu on the pfx with a working h-linearity setting.

[ahofle]

Those pics look pretty good to me.

[DeLuSioNal29]

It's more noticeable in the original pics that I posted here:

Compare the zeros in the Gauntlet snapshots.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=84370.msg883342#msg883342

~ D

[MrMikeZH]

they are good but there IS side compression you can see it on th puzzle bobble pics and on the first hatch, look at the right edge of the picture. the colors are for grant since he wanted them. would be nice to know if all pfx have such a mask. i just cant figure out how to access some service menu and its a shame that sega dont have a manual for me or any contact or help like betson. betson said they are gonna find a mvs board to test the situation 3 months ago  .

[MrMikeZH]

delusional, my pics are from th sanwa pfx which should have correct geometry but it doesnt .

[grantspain]

i cannot see any geometry problems with thise pics whatsoever,as for the colours then just needs an adjust on the focus-i will contact my pal with 20 pfx to see if he knows the extended menu

[MrMikeZH]

hmm i made some pics from the wg to compare. like you can see ingame its more dramatic, but wehen scrolling horizontal it just makes you look there  .

[grantspain]

funny that my puzzle bobble did the same thing on all my test monitors,like a bit of the pic is cut off the right hand side
still can't see much wrong though

[MrMikeZH]

isnt that wrong for you?

[MrMikeZH]

i dont know if anyone noticed that but  on the wg9800 there is a pot for H.SIZE and thats the only one on the chassis i can see. when i first configured the monitor for mame i noticed that if i set the hsize in the osd to minimum, i still couldnt catch the whole width of the picture by maybe 5pixel. resolution was 392x240 for cps, 320x240 was no problem. so i looked at the chassis and found that pot, now if i lower the size with that pot from standart, the picture gets side compression also. now could we place such a pot on other digital chassis ( betson, pfx) to get rid of the compression like on the wg?
maybe i just talk nonsense .

[MrMikeZH]

should i make some videos?
grant what happend to your friend with 20 pfx's?

now i have sold all my betsons, the buyers just dont care about the compression, am i the problem lol?

[grantspain]

no one seems the know the extended menu,and yeah i think you may be the problem

[isucamper]

Hi.  I've been reading over the last page and I'm a bit confused.

It sounds like you've been testing 3 different monitors.

The Beston:  Sounds like this has bad compression on the right side.

The Sawan pfx:  Sounds like this is also compressed but not as bad as the Beston?

The WG9800:  No compression on the side but geometery is not that great.

Am I following?

I also have a WG9800 and have been fiddiling with things to improve the geometry.  For some resolutions its pretty good, but for others (especially medium res games) it is just horrid and there's nothing I can do to improve it.  There's always this hourglass like shape to the picture I'm fighting. 

[grantspain]

thats called side pincushion

[MrMikeZH]

yes isucamper thats the situation here.
also there are atleast 2 diferent pfx monitors, the pm1755 and the kw0606.
i would like grant too see the kw0606.
i will do some videos later.

[mameCab123]

Been working on this for awhile and almost gave up, but I have found a solve for me in 15khz to get near perfect horizontal linearity. The only downside is some blank space on either side, which doesn't bother me.

I setup the monitor at 640x480p @31khz first to get the best picture. Kortek kt2914f

I found if you use Arcade OSD and turn up the horizontal front and back porches on resolutions with poor geometry it will clean it up significantly. Then just center the picture with H center.

Crt_EmuDriver > Ati X300 > Vmmaker (I just picked D9800) > Groovy Mame (for sync to refresh not resolution generation, I turned modeline off)

I know half the point of groovymame is to auto generate resolutions, but I already know most of the mame games I'm going to play and would rather tweak the resolutions in arcadeosd as this monitor can be difficult.

Example.

Ghouls'n Ghosts  384x224 had terrible horizontal linearly at first, which you can put in service mode and run cross hatch. I went into arcadeosd and set h front porch 11 / h back porch 24. Huge difference, yeah the picture doesn't fill the whole screen but the linearly is now near perfect.

This is identical for street fighter alpha 2, it also has a service mode with cross hatch.

Hope this helps anyone as trying to play scrolling games on mame 15khz on this monitor was totally unacceptable.

http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=46 has a wealth of information.
 

[DeLuSioNal29]

What OS are you using?

[mameCab123]

windows xp professional 2002 service pack 2. Cheap dell optiplex tower off craigslist p4 3ghz... then $10 ATI pci-e x300 card off ebay.

Also super excited to be running vertical games that look great on horizontal. Contra and Pac Man look really good @~20-24khz, a huge benefit of this monitor I suppose. Just setting rotation = 1 in mame.ini and working with the resolutions it chooses in arcade osd-

Reading this thread from rcadegaming, going to try using a cheap tv I just got off craigslist as well. If you search for 'yoko' he explains the vertical / horizontal stuff and how it relates.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,121491.msg1288832.html#msg1288832

[DeLuSioNal29]

I'm now using the Win7 Beta Emudrivers.