Ram Controls

[Ummon]

Havok, I just sent to the sales@ram-controls.com

[Level42]

Whoa... $140 for the rebuild kit.  Ouchy.

Like my uncle always says: better expensive than not for sale.....

That entire site is pretty expensive, but hey, he has part nobody else sells.

Frizz, if Chad don't want those parts I might be interested. I'd have to have a look at my yoke first though....

[Havok]

Havok, I just sent to the sales@ram-controls.com

Thanks - I just sent him an email yesterday. We'll see what happens. Did you get your refund yet?

[gatordad]

Havok, I just sent to the sales@ram-controls.com

Thanks - I just sent him an email yesterday. We'll see what happens. Did you get your refund yet?

I read on RGVAC that David is out of the country (on a all expense paid vacation....Just kidding) on IT contract till 09'.

[Ummon]

I didn't and sent him a message Wednesday about it and he said it went out last week, but no problem he could do it again, and to resend the address info. I checked my original message for that and it was correct, and I've been getting my mail. So I dunno. Sent again and am waiting.

[Ummon]

Well, still no refund. It's been over two weeks now. Someone told me this has actually happened to someone else(s?) here. I don't remember the thread or posts, but I'll say officially that this deal is now in the stinking category. I'm not upset. If David wants this to turn out right, it would be in his interest to rectify things.

[FrizzleFried]

Well, still no refund. It's been over two weeks now. Someone told me this has actually happened to someone else(s?) here. I don't remember the thread or posts, but I'll say officially that this deal is now in the stinking category. I'm not upset. If David wants this to turn out right, it would be in his interest to rectify things.

So Saint, 

Exactly how many people need to have difficulty getting refunds and for how long before your opinion of RAM swings?  Just wondering...

 

[TPB]

Havok created this thread, not Ratzz or Frizz or anyone else.

Presumably Havok created this thread for public discussion.  If that wasn't his intention, he would have emailed David privately, or PM'ed other members privately.

Ratzz and Frizz have as much a right to contribute to Havok's public discussion as anyone else.

But there's no point in anyone questioning David.

Ratzz, Frizz ... he's only sitting on the money of those who were "all too willing" to let him take it.  If they lacked the common sense, or couldn't otherwise be bothered, to fight for their own money, then why should you bother ?

If they lose their money, so be it.  Blind Freddy saw it coming.  They can accept that fate.

[Ummon]

Okay, I have a couple things to post here.

1. I misunderstood what was told me. No other refunds had issues.

2. I just had a series of messages with David and someone in the company who has been handling things in his stead while he's doing contract work. Essentially what happened was the payment to me was accidentally sent to a supplier. Of course if they'd just paypal'd it this would've been done with two weeks ago. So stayed tuned. I'm waiting for a quick-sent envelope in the mail. Don't get the noose ready yet.

[Ummon]

Update: I've been messaged again with a confirmation and a UPS tracking number.

[saint]

Well, still no refund. It's been over two weeks now. Someone told me this has actually happened to someone else(s?) here. I don't remember the thread or posts, but I'll say officially that this deal is now in the stinking category. I'm not upset. If David wants this to turn out right, it would be in his interest to rectify things.

So Saint, 

Exactly how many people need to have difficulty getting refunds and for how long before your opinion of RAM swings?  Just wondering...

 

Just 1, which when I had posted there were 0. I still am optimistic though.

[Havok]

I just got an email from Davd - no new activity with the yoke. He will have to remanufacture the handles from a different alloy, and doesn't have time to dedicate to it right now. He says it will happen, but just not for a while.

[ChadTower]

Despite the fact that the customers don't want him to to that?  The project does seem a bit odd from that perspective. 

[TheShanMan]

I have to say, as much as I have defended him based on what we know so far, the initial decision to take pre-orders was just asking for criticism, skepticism, and second-guessing. While I don't think there's anything wrong with taking the approach he did, I think he should have just worked quietly on the yoke, taking his time and providing occasional project status updates on his website, and left it at that. I bet in hindsight he would agree!

[wbassett]

I just got an email from Davd - no new activity with the yoke. He will have to remanufacture the handles from a different alloy, and doesn't have time to dedicate to it right now. He says it will happen, but just not for a while.

I emailed asking to buy a unit that has everything except the handles.  I'd be more than happy to put my own handles on if the rest of the unit is as high quaility as he says and they look.  I never heard anything back.

Hell, I said I'd pay full price for a unit minus the handles because I already have handles I can use.  Seems like that would be a good deal on his part.

[FrizzleFried]

I just got an email from Davd - no new activity with the yoke. He will have to remanufacture the handles from a different alloy, and doesn't have time to dedicate to it right now. He says it will happen, but just not for a while.

04/09/07  - Handles are completed.  They turned out quite nice! [emphasis mine]  They're going off to powder coat with the new vendor.  Frame component powder coat is still failing inspection, therefore alternate powder coat vendor has been chosen for this task and frame components will be forwarded to them.  Keep fingers crossed!  At this point in time, the completion estimate will not be met, obviously.  Pre-orders are still open, however, anyone who has already pre-ordered is welcome to request a refund given that I cannot meet the original expected completion date.

I am sorry,  but 1+1 doesn't equal 3 in my world.  I'm writing this project off as "vaperware"...

[Havok]

It may be, but according to him - the current metal he used for the handles reacts poorly with the powdercoat process, and guarantees that they do not coat evenly.

Someone needs to start calling his other contracts, and have them drop him. Then he would have time to work on the yokes!

 

Oh well, I can't see this not eventually coming out if he truly is as far ahead as his blog states. He's 99% done. I would think he only needs to come up with a new alloy, and use existing molds to make the new handles. He said he purchased his own powdercoating rig, so I can't see it taking that much more to complete. Hopefully sometime next year.

[XtraSmiley]

Well I guess I'll throw my as... opinion in here as well.  I've bought a couple things from Dave, spent a couple hundred dollars and although had a couple of week wait on one item that I shouldn't have, everything came in and I was VERY happy with it all.  Dave contacted me directly about the problem item, sent out another item as soon as he could and all is well.

He also sent me several items over the years for free, including the shipping paid by him.  Because of these reasons I mark him up as a good seller and a great guy.

If he's had your money for several months (or longer) on an item that is taking so long to come out, I wouldn't expect a refund immediately.  He could be out of town, or maybe not even have access to the money right this second.  If when you made the preorder, you got some sort of guarantee a about a refund instantly, it would be a different story.  

This is a hobby, at times an expensive, and slow hobby.  Really if that $200 is going to break you then don't spend it.  If someone is making something and asks for preorders, it's up to you to get whatever details you need before sending the money.  Stuff happens all the time to put hobbies off.  This is the nature of the beast.  If Dave is really supporting his family selling joystick parts to a few people on BYOAC, he's got bigger problems than you do...

[Havok]

Yeah, I've already written off the $200 I gave him - but seeing the stuff he has put out, and the fact that eventually he does come through, I believe it will happen. Someday.

Besides, I have the dubious honor of being the oldest pre-order, so I get the first one!

[Ummon]

I got my refund today. Sent it overnight and arrived this morning.

I wasn't worried about the money, either. I just decided I wanted to spend it on something else.

[saint]

Well I guess I'll throw my as... opinion in here as well.  I've bought a couple things from Dave, spent a couple hundred dollars and although had a couple of week wait on one item that I shouldn't have, everything came in and I was VERY happy with it all.  Dave contacted me directly about the problem item, sent out another item as soon as he could and all is well.

He also sent me several items over the years for free, including the shipping paid by him.  Because of these reasons I mark him up as a good seller and a great guy.

If he's had your money for several months (or longer) on an item that is taking so long to come out, I wouldn't expect a refund immediately.  He could be out of town, or maybe not even have access to the money right this second.  If when you made the preorder, you got some sort of guarantee a about a refund instantly, it would be a different story.  

This is a hobby, at times an expensive, and slow hobby.  Really if that $200 is going to break you then don't spend it.  If someone is making something and asks for preorders, it's up to you to get whatever details you need before sending the money.  Stuff happens all the time to put hobbies off.  This is the nature of the beast.  If Dave is really supporting his family selling joystick parts to a few people on BYOAC, he's got bigger problems than you do...

I'm with xtra.

[mark shaker]

I purchased a Major Havoc controller from Ram Controls. It initially got shipped to the wrong person, but David was very quick to correct the problem. The controller's quality is absolutely top notch.

I hope David tightens up his business practices, because there are to many stories where he had to correct a mistake.

I also hope David does well, because I would love to be able to purchase a new Lunar Lander controller and a new pair of Assault joysticks.

But I'm happy to wait until they are actually shipping before I order...

   - Mark

[wbassett]

Oh well, I can't see this not eventually coming out if he truly is as far ahead as his blog states. He's 99% done. I would think he only needs to come up with a new alloy, and use existing molds to make the new handles. He said he purchased his own powdercoating rig, so I can't see it taking that much more to complete. Hopefully sometime next year.

I agree, if what is posted on the site is accurate then everything is done except the handles.

That's why I found it a little confusing why I got no reply on purchasing the unit minus the handles, I told him I was perfectly fine with that and would even pay his full asking price.  The way I figured, by the time I bought a used one and then the money needed to refurbish it I'd be ahead anyway.  Made sense to me!  Especially seeing what the price of a used yoke has been going for lately. 

Seeing that he seems to be replying to people now maybe he was just busy when I inquired, so I'll write and ask again.  I do however feel it's poor business to not respond to someone even if it's to say no. 

[TPB]

Yeah, I've already written off the $200 I gave him

Hey Havok,

It looks like you won't need to (write it off).

Ummon's got his refund, so you're looking sweet ...

I got my refund today.

[mountain]

I just got an email from Davd - no new activity with the yoke. He will have to remanufacture the handles from a different alloy, and doesn't have time to dedicate to it right now. He says it will happen, but just not for a while.

04/09/07  - Handles are completed.  They turned out quite nice! [emphasis mine]  They're going off to powder coat with the new vendor.  Frame component powder coat is still failing inspection, therefore alternate powder coat vendor has been chosen for this task and frame components will be forwarded to them.  Keep fingers crossed!  At this point in time, the completion estimate will not be met, obviously.  Pre-orders are still open, however, anyone who has already pre-ordered is welcome to request a refund given that I cannot meet the original expected completion date.

I am sorry,  but 1+1 doesn't equal 3 in my world.  I'm writing this project off as "vaperware"...

I am sure what he means is that they physically turned out nice before powder coating. based on the remark about needing to use a different alloy, it all makes sense to me. Assuming these are casted handles, if he went with aluminum, I have no doubt that the powder coating looked like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. I sourced a company to cast some aluminum parts that we were going to brush and then powder coat black and the alloy used for casting prevented a quality finish. We had to switch to zinc.

I think his biggest mistake here is not communicating more details...