selling a house in this economy

[myntik1]

Would you ever sell your collection with your house?  We bought our house last year  right before the market began to go down like a drunken prom date.  It’s the house we wanted at a price we could afford.  We knew that getting it to where we wanted it to be would be about 3-4 years and a lot of labor.  Our neighbors just put their house up for sale for 20K more than we paid for our house.  Their house is in the condition that we want ours to be, so we're thinking about buying it.  I'm crunching some numbers and thinking about calling a realtor out to just give us a rough estimate of what we can get.  We paid 180 knowing that we would need to dump in 30-40 grand over time.  My feeling is a starter house in a decent neighborhood doesn't depreciate like a McMansion.  My hope is that with all of the work we've done - refinsihing all of the wood floors,finishing the basement, updating the electrical, removing the wallpaper and repairing the plaster (yes plaster) walls, having a patio and new front steps poured, landscaping etc at least comes close to offsetting  the market depreciation.

The new owner would inherit my in-wall juke with all of the music, but I'm thinking about throwing in a handful of games in order to up my selling price by a couple of K.  While I'm not giving them an EDOT, I would most likely throw in all of the stuff I got that I'm not quite sure what to do with - my boot Ms. P cabaret, my 48n1, a cocktail mame, Centipede (if the old lady will part with it), Hang On  and a Pop A Card pinball machine.  While it's not a collection of grails I'm pretty sure a first time home buyer would be more than delighted to get a turnkey mantown for a few bucks more

Has anyone done this before?

And has anyone bought and sold a house recently?  I'm hearing real estate horror stories but they've generally come from people who were offered 20 - 30 grand less than their 500,000 asking price.

[HaRuMaN]

didn't I just see this thread and Shardian replied to it? 

[myntik1]

yes you did, unfortunately I posted it in the buy/sell/trade section by mistake.

[AtomSmasher]

The new owner would inherit my in-wall juke with all of the music, but I'm thinking about throwing in a handful of games in order to up my selling price by a couple of K.  While I'm not giving them an EDOT, I would most likely throw in all of the stuff I got that I'm not quite sure what to do with - my boot Ms. P cabaret, my 48n1, a cocktail mame, Centipede (if the old lady will part with it), Hang On  and a Pop A Card pinball machine.  While it's not a collection of grails I'm pretty sure a first time home buyer would be more than delighted to get a turnkey mantown for a few bucks more

Just something to be aware of, when you sell the house and a real estate appraiser determines the value for the loan, no personal property (such as arcade cabinets) will included in that value.  So while including the cabinets will help sell the house, the house still has to be worth the selling price without the cabinets (assuming the buyers get a loan, which they most likely will).

[ChadTower]

I've talked to a few people who had collections that tried this... same as above.  It doesn't affect offers on the house in terms of value.  Of course, a lot of buyers said "I'll make an offer if you will leave the collection behind" but none were saying "we'll give you a few K extra for the collection too".

[Ginsu Victim]

I just have this nightmare vision of the buyer putting them out at the curb the moment they go to move in.

[myntik1]

I like the work that I've done to my house, but we really should pull the trigger on this other house.  I'm at a loss for the true value of my home (even a ballpark estimate) so I guess I need to consult a professional. When we bought our house everything in the same price range needed a complete rehab or had no potential. The appraisal came in at about 10K more than we paid for the house and we put a decent chunk down.  I was floored by what the neighbors were asking.  They just bought a new house and don't want to carry 2 mortgages.They priced their house to sell immediately.  For the 20K price difference their house has the following things we don't have or that we want to upgrade:

Newer siding, and gutters (theirs is about 3 years old and ours is about 15)
Their screened in porch has been sided and converted into an office
French doors leading to a deck (we have a patio, but we don't have a door leading to the patio, right now you have to go around the house which is a bummer)
A more modern kitchen (not state of the art but more up-to-date than ours)
a sunroom
central air
newer roof (ours is fine, but I need to replace some of the shingles on top of the screened in porch)

What they're selling their house for is roughly what I think my house would be worth now if the market didn't go in the toilet.  Bottom line is no one is going to buy my house if theirs is on the market at the same time.  If I buy their house and can't get what I think my house is worth then I take a huge hit on the deal.  That's why I was thinking that if I included the games and some other things I might get closer to what I want which is about 190. Granted the 190 is contingent upon not having a better deal 150 feet away.

[ChadTower]

Sounds like you mostly just need to wait until their house is sold and out of your way.  Remember, it costs thousands to sell and buy a house, and that money comes out of your pocket too.

[shardian]

Yeah, adding accessories does not increase the value of your house. Things that add major bucks are:

-more square footage
-bathroom renovation
-kitchen renovation
- new heating/ac
-new windows

Those also have big price tags though.

Small things that help with your sale price and offers are:
-new flooring
-neutral repaint of rooms
-modern updated fixtures
-landscaping

[myntik1]

We don't want to move we want to buy thier house  We have great neighbors all around, everyone talks to each other and everyone is quick to lend a tool or help out in any way.  I told another neighbor the other day that I was going to the bike shop to get my son his first set of wheels (he's 3) and they guy brought me over his son's old Diamondback.  There's 2 elderly couples on the street and people take turns raking their leaves and shoveling. I couldn't ask for a better place.  We don't live in the best city, but we have a great neighborhood. The only reason we're considering this other house is because for 10K more or so (hopefully not much more) I can scratch most of the items of my list.  Just replacing the windows, adding a central air compressor and adding a door to the patio would equal about 10K.

[shardian]

Yeah, but you also have to add to the $10k price this stuff:

-listing/realtor fees on your house.
-costs associated with meeting buyers requests
-closing costs on new house
-possible higher interest rate
-loss of equity

and most importantly, paying interest on that $10k difference for 30 years.

[ahofle]

Bottom line is no one is going to buy my house if theirs is on the market at the same time.  If I buy their house and can't get what I think my house is worth then I take a huge hit on the deal. 

Even after it sells, it will unfortunately be considered a 'comparable' sale when you go to sell your house and will most likely lower its appraised value.  Real estate sucks.

[TOK]

You're going to need just the right buyer for an arcade machine to be an attraction. Its such a fringe hobby that I think even a different type of gameroom item like a pool table would be much more attractive as a selling point. Its almost a double edged sword in that a person that really knows arcade games knows that most of them are only worth a couple hundred bucks each, practically nothing when you're thinking about layout out 200k or more for a house.

I think the market varies a lot depending on area, but your comment about the higher end houses losing more value are very true around me. The 200-300K houses in my area have had the values decrease 1 to 3%. The houses over 500K (and there are a lot of them) have slid by nearly 20%. I guess the lower valued houses are still popular with first time buyers, but they aren't turning around after 10 years and moving to the larger ones now.

[bishmasterb]

Just my $.02:

I sold a house about 5 years ago, where the buyer made an offer (at asking price) but asked for my two cabs at the time (a good condition Donkey Kong and a MAME cab) to be included. I declined, but told him if he wished to purchase the cabs for a separate amount (or an amount on top of the asking price) we could talk, and he declined (but ended up buying the house at asking price sans the cabinets).

The moral of the story: In this case, even someone who was interested in arcade machines didn't want to actually pay any more money for them, but rather wanted to get them for "free".

My experience with selling houses while minimal has taught me that people will only pay extra for things that really add value to the house with WIDE appeal: kitchens, bathrooms, etc.

[ark_ader]

I was going to post a song and dance on how many houses we have sold over the years, buying dogs and refurbishing them for profit.  My mother has been doing that since the 1950's way before the house doctor.  Our current house was a dog and now tripled in value.  But with this economy such benefit is short lived.

If I sold this house with a cab installed, the cab would have to go first.  Unless it was in a kids bedroom and small enough to be a feature - maybe.  But to leave full sized cabinets for a would be buyer is a no no.

Same goes for home cinema, dens, studys even crash rooms.  If you are going to sell a house, it has to be free of anything a buyer will knock off your asking price, even if the buyer wants your cabs, his wife might not.

Would you buy a truck with a permanent shell on the back?  Maybe but not always.  I laugh when I see the house doctor try to convince that neutral colour scheme is the best way to go, when decorating a wall, when the owner wants scary wallpaper.  Just because you like it, doesn't mean your buyer will. 

Ditch the cabs and wall tech to a storage locker and sell the house for a profit.  The economy is on the up anyway.

[Sprucemoose]

Sell your house first or try to sell it.  Leave it on the market until the house across the street sells or if you sell your house and the other one has not sold, buy it.  Cost next to nothing to list a house especially FOR SALE BY OWNER.  DON'T do two mortgages.  See if your neighbors will do a sale on their house contingent on the sale of your house.  You never know how long it will take to sell a house.  All your upgrades may be the cats meow to you, but a buyer may perceive things differently. 

Good luck.

[myntik1]

We talked it over last night and we're not going to buy the other house.  I appreciate all of the comments. If we didn't have to buy a new(er) car I would be all over this deal.  We have 1 car that's dangeroulsy close to 10 years old with a bajillion miles on it and another that will be a decade old in 2 years.  As much as I hate to put a car before a better house I would rather not have to juggle 2 car payments at the same time.  At least until daycare doesn't have me by the short & curlies.

Ark_ader I disagree about the  economy though. I think its going to get a lot worse before it gets better. We've weathered the mortgage crisis mess.  But what happens this winter when people decide to heat their house/apartmenet instead of paying their credit cards.

[ChadTower]

But what happens this winter when people decide to heat their house/apartmenet instead of paying their credit cards.

That is really only going to hit certain areas of the country... New England is going to get hit harder than most because there are few alternatives to heating oil up here.  I just replaced my furnace to try and mitigate that and I'm about to replace my basement windows and exterior basement door.

[WunderCade]

The economy is on the up anyway.

It is? Where are you living? Here in California, we have entire new subdivisions that are ghost towns. Never-sold McMansions with dead orange shrubbery, and yellow lawns. My home, went from being worth 320,000 in 2005 to 130,000 today. You could buy a brandnew 2880 sq ft home with the works here for around 210,000. Homes here have lost damn near 50% of value from 2 years ago. If you're in the market to buy a home around here, most realtors will show you foreclosures all day long.

Maybe it's different in your neck of the woods. 
 

[ChadTower]

I think it's different pretty much everywhere.  Few places were anywhere near as inflated as CA.

[shardian]

Yeah, california prices as bloated as a dead dear on the side of the road after a week in the summer heat.

Alot of people out there genuinely got screwed. Of course, they should have stuck to the age old "30% of your income" policy of homebuying.

Around here, there have been some foreclosures, but they are mostly home flippers or people who had no business buying in the first place.

[bishmasterb]

It is? Where are you living? Here in California, we have entire new subdivisions that are ghost towns. Never-sold McMansions with dead orange shrubbery, and yellow lawns. My home, went from being worth 320,000 in 2005 to 130,000 today. You could buy a brandnew 2880 sq ft home with the works here for around 210,000. Homes here have lost damn near 50% of value from 2 years ago. If you're in the market to buy a home around here, most realtors will show you foreclosures all day long.

Where do you live? I'm just curious where a large new home can be had for $210K in CA. Thanks.

[Cakemeister]

It's a buyer's market. I just made an offer on a foreclosure house to either rent out or refurbish/flip.

In the next couple of years while the housing market is still depressed I hope to buy enough rental properties to live off of when I retire in 15 years.

 

[mameotron]

I think it's different pretty much everywhere.  Few places were anywhere near as inflated as CA.

I just heard on the news tonight that house values fell 4 1/2% in Michigan over the past year.  Where I live in Ohio they fell by only .6%.  Not too bad for us, the house we bought as a foreclosure 3 years ago is still worth 20k more than we paid.

[danny_galaga]

sounds to me like you should keep your gear if yuo have nightmares about it being dumped.

good that you are still ahead too. amazing how much prices are going down over there. we were lucky. house was exactly 200k in 2001. last appraisal had it at 540k (",)

[patrickl]

good that you are still ahead too. amazing how much prices are going down over there. we were lucky. house was exactly 200k in 2001. last appraisal had it at 540k (",)

Indeed amazing. Houses here are still going up fast. I bought a new house and when I got it one of the neighbours sold theirs. They got 200k more than they paid for it.

[ark_ader]

The economy is on the up anyway.

It is? Where are you living? Here in California, we have entire new subdivisions that are ghost towns. Never-sold McMansions with dead orange shrubbery, and yellow lawns. My home, went from being worth 320,000 in 2005 to 130,000 today. You could buy a brandnew 2880 sq ft home with the works here for around 210,000. Homes here have lost damn near 50% of value from 2 years ago. If you're in the market to buy a home around here, most realtors will show you foreclosures all day long.

Maybe it's different in your neck of the woods. 

I live in the UK, and my house has increased in value already, the problem is nobody is selling mortgages.

I stay in it and in 2 years time it will double again as house building is not happening in my part of the world - thank goodness. 

Besides I'm tired of moving house.

[pinballwizard79]

Just to take the sting out of not getting that house or any other house think of this:

Selling your house = closing costs, Realtor fees, odd days interest (partial payment), new escrows & etc.

On a $300k house that's apx $25,000 in losses/costs.

If you think that's the worst of it think again: if you made 6 years of payments on $300k on just a single note (a combo would really result in a scary number) you would have paid in almost $150,000.00 only to see a worthless principal pay down of what $18k maybe?

So now its a $175,000.00 decision...................hmmmm kinda puts it in to perspective now.

Loans existed, people were approved, defaults happened & the all knowing government tried to fix it resulting by killing the bond value through public comments regarding possible regulations resulting in what we have today, a shortage in global financial backing turning into a liquidity crisis & far less approved buyers to bail troubled folks out thus causing declining values & a lot of hands to be thrown in the air by all income levels.....hope they dont try to save the internet next.

FYI: I wouldn't blame banks for the mortgage crisis either, if the media & all the hounds knew how finance worked they would know that their actual mortgage is in a Japanese or say Russian school teachers retirement mutual fund. The notes are bundled as bonds & sold on the secondary market to investors that go from here to Fiji.

The investors say what they will & wont buy & under what conditions. The bank relays that to people called underwriters, then loan officers, then customers.

People in the front & rear of that line are at fault..................wait, I forgot to mention President Clinton's role in these bonds.

Never mind me, just play galaga at your house & enjoy life.

[Ummon]

Never mind me, just play galaga at your house & enjoy life.

Kinda what it has to come down to I guess.

[Hockeyboy]

As someone who went through one hell of a year trying to sell a home, I can tell you that right now the market sucks in certain pockets of the country whereas others aren't really feeling anything. In Portland Metro, Oregon, there has been a slight reduction of prices but mostly things are holding steady. Yeah, lucky me, who was trying to BUY in that area...    However, on the other side, I was trying to sell a home in Colorado Springs and had NO offers for 10 months even though we diligently lowered the price a few thousand every few months. We ended up losing money on our absolutely gorgeous brand-new home of 3987 sq ft, 5 bd, 3.5 ba, on 26600 sq ft (2/3 acre) of land built in mid-2006. What did we get in return? A model home built in 2004, 2598 sq ft, 3 bd (+ office that has a closet so it can be used as 4th bd), 3ba on 5000 sq ft of land...*and*...we paid more for this home. 

All I can say is those of you looking, hope it's an area that allows you to be in a good position as a buyer and if you're a seller, be prepared to offer up extras to get that house to sell. I had to offer up the brand-new pool table, worth $2400 retail, plus $5000 in closing costs (paid by my company as a last resort) to get my house to sell.

[ChadTower]

It should be noted that bigger middle class houses like that are the ones having the most trouble selling.  Most places are still seeing sales in the 1000-1500 sqft older house range.  Starter houses will always sell at the right price but the upgrade homes are the hardest hit when the middle class decides to go conservative.

[Ummon]

You could always not move.

[AtomSmasher]

You could always not move.

I believe he's already come to that conclusion.

We talked it over last night and we're not going to buy the other house.