Do you see this?

[Ummon]

Does anyone else notice the scanlines in the pics posted here are going horizontal?

[somunny]

Because the monitor is turned on its side, maybe?

[NickG]

Yeah, but then the game would be sideways, too, wouldn't it? It is the real PCB so the scanlines should be vertical; as should be the monitor.

BTW, I think that's actually the shadow mask density creating the lines in those pictures, Ummon.  The scan is still normal raster, you can tell by the refresh. 

[FrizzleFried]

You do realize that a monitor doesn't care what orientation it is installed in,  it will always scan from top to bottom as if it was in the horizontal position.  If it's set vertically,  lets say twisted 90 degrees counter clockwise while looking at the screen,  the scan lines will run from left to right...if it's twisted 90 degrees clockwise it will scan from right to left.

[Xiaou2]

 In the Pic posted by cornishHen (a little down the page on that posted link)

 you can see the scan.  You can see a dark line on the right side that is around
2 inches wide, in a vertical position.

 However, you can also see lines in the rest of the graphics.  Why?   

 Because they are NOT Scanlines.   That IS the Shadowmask that you see.

 The scanline is too fast for the eye to really see.  The camera was able to capture
it with high speed.   My camera barely can capture it... and most times does not
even capture it. 

 People really dont understand the scanline enough, and always think its
what it making those lines.   When really, while there may be a slight trace of it..
the most visual effect is merely coming from the Shadow mask.   Get out your
magnifine glass,  and you can see for yourself.



 

[Ummon]

Yeah, but then the game would be sideways, too, wouldn't it? It is the real PCB so the scanlines should be vertical; as should be the monitor.

That's what I mean, I don't remember seeing, and didn't recently see on original machines, vertical scanlines on vertically oriented games...although in some old videos of games up-close, they do seem vertical. ??

BTW, I think that's actually the shadow mask density creating the lines in those pictures, Ummon.  The scan is still normal raster, you can tell by the refresh. 

Refresh? You mean, if I were watching it myself vs looking at the picture in the thread?

You do realize that a monitor doesn't care what orientation it is installed in,  it will always scan from top to bottom as if it was in the horizontal position.  If it's set vertically,  lets say twisted 90 degrees counter clockwise while looking at the screen,  the scan lines will run from left to right...if it's twisted 90 degrees clockwise it will scan from right to left.

Um, maybe you mean it the reverse? And, yeah, that's what all my raster monitors - arcade and pc - do.

[NickG]

Ok I gotta admit I don't really know for sure what I am talking about, and that the thing I was referring to as "the refresh" may be the same thing Xiaou2 is reffering to as the scanline.  I was talking about the dark vertical bar area which is parallel to the ladders and between Donkey Kong and the Lady in the first pic and along the rightmost ladders in the second pic.  Here is a more dramatic image of what I was picking out in your linked post; taken with a faster camera.  If FrizzleFried is correct (and if I have understood him correctly) then what I was looking at is something else entirely. 
Does this mean that for vertical game's PCBs you have to switch the x and y deflection coils or use a special chassis entirely?

[RayB]

Here is a more dramatic image of what I was picking out in your linked post[/url]; taken with a faster camera.  If FrizzleFried is correct (and if I have understood him correctly) then what I was looking at is something else entirely. 
Does this mean that for vertical game's PCBs you have to switch the x and y deflection coils or use a special chassis entirely?

No, absolutely not. He just took good photos. Look at the same thread, but down at CornishHen's pics. You'll see the "refresh" darkening is VERTICAL (as it should be)

[Turnarcades]

Y'know, I've never really known exactly what scanlines are or their general importance to some people, so this is a bit alien to me. Anyone?

[Namco]

Y'know, I've never really known exactly what scanlines are or their general importance to some people, so this is a bit alien to me. Anyone?

I know for me, I watched a lot of television close to the screen and would see the pixels, scanlines, and whatnot. I would really notice them. On an old monitor, when the screen was blurry you'd really notice that the pixels and lines blur together and look very bad. A sign of a quality monitor and/or new game would be very crisp, clear, well defined scanlines.

I'm sure scanlines as I remember them never existed, but rather are the sum of my collective memories of pixels, scanlines, masks, and matrices. Most games just don't look right without some emulation of scanlines to me.

[Jack Burton]

Well, most people use the term "scanlines" incorrectly.  They refer to the black lines between the pixes that are visible on televisions and computer monitors at low resolutions.  The black lines are created as the electron guns move down and over to start drawing the next line.  This leaves a little bit of empty space between the lines that are being drawn or "scanned" on the monitor, so people call them "scanlines"


But, I reiterate, that is incorrect, the actual definition is something else that I've read on this forum somewhere but can't remember right now.

As for why the lines in the pic are going horizontal, I think it is just a trick of the camera, the pics he posted further down in the topic look correct to me.

[ivwshane]

But, I reiterate, that is incorrect, the actual definition is something else that I've read on this forum somewhere but can't remember right now.

I believe what you are referring to is shadow masks (as has been mentioned before). Shadow masks on different types of displays very and really add to the character of the over all picture. I believe that is why purist prefer crt/tv's over lcd's.



I believe scanline is just a term used to describe what it is people are referring to.

[Hoopz]

Here's a good (or at least interesting at times) thread regarding monitors, scanlines, etc.   RandyT makes some great and informative comments.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=62829.0

And remember, Rule 11 is in place for a reason.