Having Player 1 Start/Continue and Player 1 Credit as one button???

[zzsprade]

G'day guys!

Just a quick question. Would it be possible to operate Mame normally by instead of having a seperate Play 1 button and a serpate Player 1 Credit button, by combing these two together?

As in having a single button that when pressed could add a credit and start/continue the game. In other words connecting wiring from the one microswitch and connecting it on the encoder/keyboard hack to the corresponding player 1 start key and player 1 credit key.

Is this feasible and practical? Would a delay need to be made so that the credit was registered just prior to the game being started.

Cheers guys!

-Alex

[paigeoliver]

That works, but it mucks up two player games.

Much better to have the player 2 start button add a credit.

Pressing player 2 start once will add a credit, and then you can press player one start to start a one player game, or player 2 start to start a 2 player game.

But even that falls apart with games that have more than 2 players, or games that allow player 2 to start a one player game by themselves.

Best probably to use a shift key instead (Start+button one adds a credit).

[Tiger-Heli]

There's another way to do it also.  Have your single button for Start/Credit wired to Coin 1 (for each player).  So one button wired to Coin 1, one button wired to Coin 2, etc.

Now change MAME so 1P start is recognized as L Ctrl (P1B1), 2P Start is recognized as A (P2B2), etc.

Now you press the Coin Input for each player to coin up and press Button 1 for each player to start the game.

This avoids most of the problems and is how many arcade games are set up.  For example, if you play TMNT or skullxbo with the default assignments, you will notice that the game says "Press Start Button" but the game starts when you press "L Ctrl".  That is because on the original arcade, the Start and Player 1 buttons were connected to the same input.

(If you want a separate start button (the little people buttons) you can wire both this and the P1B1 button to Button 1 (just like the arcade manufacturers).

[zzsprade]

paigeoliver,

With those complications would it be possible to map the Player 1 button (for both functions) to keys 1 + 5, and have Player 2 button (for both functions) mapped to 2 + 6? Or would the same complications arise.

-Alex

[Tiger-Heli]

paigeoliver,

With those complications would it be possible to map the Player 1 button (for both functions) to keys 1 + 5, and have Player 2 button (for both functions) mapped to 2 + 6? Or would the same complications arise.

-Alex

I thought that was what you were asking originally?  (Hopelessly confused)  ?

[zzsprade]

Tiger-Heli,

I kind of see where you are coming from and I have to say I like the idea. Could you explain it too me a little more just so that I have a fuller understanding.

Thanks mate!

-Alex

[zzsprade]

Tiger-Heli,

Mate I'm hopelessly confused as well mate. It's getting later into the night here and I really need to get some sleep.

[paigeoliver]

I used to own Skull & Crossbones, it did not have start buttons at all. It just used the attack buttons to start (like Crystal Castles does). The funny thing was that if you had a fully Jamma wired cabinet and stuck a Skull & Crossbones PCB in it, and pressed the JAMMA start button, then the game would dump some text on the screen and crash.

They should emulate THAT in Mame.

Back to doubling up. Doubling up button one and start or coin non-shifted is asking for trouble, most games are fine with this, others go berzerk. I say use some sort of shifted key. Or just put a credit button SOMEWHERE. It doesn't have to be on the control panel you know.

[Tiger-Heli]

Tiger-Heli,

I kind of see where you are coming from and I have to say I like the idea. Could you explain it too me a little more just so that I have a fuller understanding.

Thanks mate!

-Alex

Hmmmn, not sure how to explain it better or what you don't understand. . .

Try playing TMNT or Skullxbo with the keyboard and you'll see what I mean.

To make my idea work, either go into the TAB menu (Ughhhh) and change Inputs All GAMES - to P1 Start = L Ctrl (P1 B1), P2 Start = A (P2B2) P3 Start = (Whatever P3B1 is mapped to), P4 Start, etc.  (This makes the method work for games like Twin Cobra that originally had separate Start and Coin buttons).  Alternately, you can make the same changes in your Ctrlr.ini files.

You also need to decide whether you want a Start button for each player on your panel.  If so, wire it and the Button 1 for each player to the same input.  They function the same way (electrically) but are used at different times.

The only drawbacks that I see to this is if you press the Start 1 button during a game P1B1 will be activated and if you press P1B1 after inserting a coin, the game will start, but this is unlikely to happen and not a tremendous drawback.

[paigeoliver]

You can also largely eliminate the issue by doing what I do. Whenever I load a new game for the first time I tab out, and change the dip switch setting for attract mode sound off and freeplay on.

[Tiger-Heli]

I used to own Skull & Crossbones, it did not have start buttons at all. It just used the attack buttons to start (like Crystal Castles does). The funny thing was that if you had a fully Jamma wired cabinet and stuck a Skull & Crossbones PCB in it, and pressed the JAMMA start button, then the game would dump some text on the screen and crash.

They should emulate THAT in Mame.

Shhhhhh!!  DON'T POST THINGS LIKE THAT!!!  It'll probably be added to MAME 0.71 now!!!  (I'm only halfway kidding).

Back to doubling up. Doubling up button one and start or coin non-shifted is asking for trouble, most games are fine with this, others go berzerk. I say use some sort of shifted key. Or just put a credit button SOMEWHERE. It doesn't have to be on the control panel you know.

Hmmn, which games crash with this in MAME.  I haven't actually tried it, but I thought it should work fine.

I assumed the original problem was lack of I-PAC inputs, not lack of CP space, but I could be wrong.

[Tiger-Heli]

Back to doubling up. Doubling up button one and start or coin non-shifted is asking for trouble, most games are fine with this, others go berzerk.

Paigeoliver, I tested my idea last night with about ten games in MAME and they all worked fine.  (Of course, this currently means 3926 games that MIGHT go berzerk :-(  )

Do you know of any games this might be a problem with, as I might use this method when I build my panels?

[zzsprade]

Both the xarcade and hotrod have only a single player start button.

I'd be curious to see if anyone knows how they get around this, with concern to starting a game and adding credits. So if anyone has one of these or knows of how they do it please share.

Tiger-Heli... mate my presumption would be that you are on to something there and that the way you have suggested would be the same way that the xarcade and hotrod go about this issue. Good thinking!

-Alex

[MadEditor]

Both the xarcade and hotrod have only a single player start button.

X-arcade has Player 1 AND player 2 start button as well as 2 coin input (flipper buton)

just to clarify situation here...

[shmokes]

Why not just have the button by itself be a coin button and then give it a shift function for start?  Would it be a bad idea to have a direction on the joystick act as a shift button?

[zzsprade]

Cheers MadEditor!

I think the Hotrod may have the same setup. From memory it has side flipper buttons.

-Alex

[HeadRusch]

FREEPLAY!?  Come on, there is definately something about dropping a coin in the slot.  Actually for me its pushbuttons that I placed below my control panel (Which are now black, I didn't like the red buttons so much)......I tell people "you wanna insert a coin, you press da button".

I used regular arcade pushbuttons for that...in hindsight I think that was a mistake, I have these little radioshack buttons that I might wire up instead.....I also gotta get me a drawing program and make little "COIN 1" type labels....dress up the CP a bit...

[zzsprade]

Mate its not so much about free play... mame is all about free play.

Its about trying to unclutter that CP a little bit more by not have another dicky button for a credit. I am sure from what you said that you would much rather before to be able to just have people hit a single button to start/add a credit instead of having two and having to explain it too them. Or alternatively having a working coin mech to accept coins for credits.

-Alex

[Tiger-Heli]

Ok, here's my suggestion again:

Have your coin buttons hooked up normally.  Map MAME so Start 1 is P1B1 (L Ctrl) Start 2 is P2B1 (A), Start 3 is P3B1, and Start 4 is P4B1.  Either leave off the Start buttons or include them and wire them in parallel with the appropriate player's button 1 buttons as shown above.

I tried several games as well as asking on the MAME forum and only found the following drawbacks:  (If anyone finds a game that has problems with this, please let me know by posting here).

These are ordered from least severe to most severe.

If you press Start in the middle of a game, the P1B1 action will occur, but I can't think of when you would ever do this.

If you coin-up a game and accidentally press P1Button1, the game will start, but you are not likely to do this.

If you are playing a game, have a bunch of credits racked up, and accidentally hit P1Button1 after you die, you will continue playing the game and have to suicide to end your turn.

A few games (1942, Arknoid2, gng, for sure but there may be others) were looking for you to press and hold Fire and then press Start to continue.  For these games, pressing either Fire or Start will immediately continue.  (I prefer this, actually, but it's not arcade accurate).

A few games (Rastan for sure, but there may be others), would allow you to press Start to continue, or Player 1 Button 1 to stop the counter and start a new game.  For these games, pressing Start or P1B1 will continue and you will have to wait the full 10 seconds before starting a new game without continuing.

One game (Primal Rage, but there may be others) uses the Start button as an attack button, but it is not the same as P1Button 1.  For this game, P1Button1 would have to be re-mapped, and the keyboard layout might be less than ideal, but this method will still work.

The problems are less severe than they sound, if you actually try it out.  (This is a way to get four additional inputs out of your keyboard encoder).