New "Sonic Gun System" to be released this fall for all monitors

[SGT]

Sorry if already posted.   Nanotech Ent.  sent me this preliminary brochure that seems promising.  It uses transducers instead of LEDs; and reports it will work at very close distances.  Opinions?

http://simmonscomputer.com/sgs_flyer.pdf

(Had to link because of board attachment size limitations)

SGT

[ahofle]

Wow very cool.  Assuming it works as advertised, I think this is a much better way to go than all the infared LED solutions we are seeing now.  I wonder if those sensors need to be visible, or if they can go behind a bezel?  Looks expensive at any rate.

[wbassett]

I agree, this is very interesting.

[Teebor]

Looking at it, and if you can tweak the amplifier than you could put the sensors behind a surface which will not absorb or cause the sound to be deflected, much like some reversing sensors on a car

So yes you probably could hide them away neatly, and they would look great (or not look great as you can't see them  )

[erictrumpet]

But will using this interface make all the neighborhood dogs come to your house and start barking?

Eric.

[shmokes]

That does look very cool.  I doubt the sensors have to be showing because a) these are meant to be used in commercial applications that have to look nice and professional and, b) sound waves travel through walls and such pretty easily.  It'll be interesting to see what happens with these.

[wbassett]

I thought the board looked familiar.

This is the same company that has the interface for regular arcade light guns.  Based on that this will probably also be around the $200 range.  The bigger question is how much will the guns cost seeing they will also be new electronics.

What is very appealing about this is the 'any screen' technology and also the distance isn't an issue.

The sonic sensors look like they can be very easily hidden in the bezel.

[Organic Jerk]

Oh man, this is a really big deal.  This solves pretty much every light gun problem at this point, no?

The durability of the guns, the sensorbars/vgabox issues, the distance issues, the monitor issues.....


Happ's standard light guns cost about 75 on the site, so maybe these sonic guns will be someting like $10 more?

So I guess you should probably keep about 400 in change saved for a full set of this system....

[ahofle]

This solves pretty much every light gun problem at this point, no?

I agree.  I wonder if the Wii's successor will use this techology instead of its mediocre IR LEDs.  Thinking more about it, I guess I would not mind putting down some cash for a set of these considering they will last and will not become obsolete with new display technologies.  I hope they release a consumer model without the useless audio amp.
This reminds me of those little hidden sonic door systems in Metroid Prime 2. 

[erictrumpet]

I wonder if these would these need calibration every time you "boot" a light gun game like regular guns...

Eric.

[Paul Olson]

Is this Foley's site? He did pinball wizard, I think, which is also on the site. If it is his site, maybe he could give some more info.

[wbassett]

I wonder if these would these need calibration every time you "boot" a light gun game like regular guns...

Eric.

Les is testing the other interface and I just dropped him a line asking about this one.  I'm assuming since it's an HID device it probably doesn't need calibrated each time a game is started, but I can't say that for sure.

[javeryh]

Wow cool.  Now I might actually be motivated to add gun support to my next cab!

[CheffoJeffo]

Is this Foley's site? He did pinball wizard, I think, which is also on the site. If it is his site, maybe he could give some more info.

That would be ironic after my recent rant about not being able to support him.

Having said that, NanoTech are the folks behind the opto gun board that wbassett has been talking about (as well as a PC-to-JAMMA interface) and I would have expected David to chime in, because I had said that I was really hoping for him to deliver the gun interface he had talked about a couple of years ago.

[wbassett]

I pulled up the pdf file and it says it was created by Dave Foley, so that kinda answers that.

One way to look at this, and this pretty much is for the person just building their cab and cp, is this interface will also accomodate buttons and sticks, and you can whack a sound system too since I'd think 35W should be enough for most people.  If you look at it like that, then the price factor is a lot more reasonable.

For someone that already has a cab, controll panel, and interface, then the price becomes a little less attractive.

Still, if these work well and are as reliable as we are used to at the local arcade, I'm sure it's worth it to some people.  For casual gamers that only want to play a gun game now and then...  then no I don't think they would be interested.  But they probably aren't interested in this option right now anyway.

[Neverending Project]

I'm no expert (nor do I play on on TV), but I don't think these sensors will work behind glass or plexi. I understand that they are supposedly designed for commercial use, but the ultrasonic transducer itself works by bouncing a ping off an object, and then using some circuitry and microprocessing to determine its distance. The very fact that it is designed to reflect off an object leads me to believe that it won't be able to pass through a piece of glass or plexi in front of it, and still reflect off the gun.

Of course, further thought makes me think that instead of pinging a signal off of an object, there may be one sensor transmitting a ping from the gun, and four sensors receiving the signal on the corners of the monitor - hence no "bouncing". But the same principle applies - if the sensor is behind glass, how can it see the incoming ping?

Of course time will tell. And even if some modifications had to be made for the sensors, they are barely larger than a half inch in diameter, so they could still be fairly inconspicuous. Who knows... with a robust calibration system, they could theoretically even be placed at the corners of your glass, way outside the corners of your monitor. Then the calibration routine could still allow accurate tracking.

Just random thoughts...

[Ummon]

That does look very cool.  I doubt the sensors have to be showing because a) these are meant to be used in commercial applications that have to look nice and professional and, b) sound waves travel through walls and such pretty easily.  It'll be interesting to see what happens with these.

Ahem. Probably not if you have foam on them. In any case, sound is easily interfered with unless it's sub-sonic. However, I'm betting it uses ultrasound frequencies so I'm guessing these would require some sort of grills.

[SGT]

Les is testing the other interface and I just dropped him a line asking about this one.  I'm assuming since it's an HID device it probably doesn't need calibrated each time a game is started, but I can't say that for sure.

wbassett,

Did your contact at Happ give a time line for release?

[wbassett]

No not yet.

[Droler]

This is cool (I am all for more options in the gun games department) but why did it take them 20 years to get around to using Nintendo Power Glove technology?

[Fozzy The Bear]

This is for commercial applications.....  Given the current price of Happ gun sets then I'd guess you won't see much change from about $500 for a pair of guns and the interface and it won't get any cheaper, because it's aimed at Arcade Ops not at domestic users and Happ rip the arcade industry off because they know they can afford to pay for it.

Unless you guys have a lot of money to spend then I think you're going to find that it's not our solution.....  only for the mega rich with way too much cash to spare.

I also suspect that the accuracy is not going to be as good as we want..... arcade guns are not as accurate as most people assume.

Just don't be expecting domestic product prices on this one.

So! maybe somebody wants to reverse engineer one??? Randy???

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Xiaou2]

 Well,  if that were the case..  which it might be... its absurdly STUPID.

 The sales that any company could make off the Dieing and sparse arcade
industry is peanuts... even when they sell the things for high dollar value.

 If they make PC consumer guns that are dead on accurate... package them
with a simple game, and put them on the shelves of stores..  they will make
billions more in revenues. 

 This isnt just about mame.   We are talking millions of people who grew up
playing lightgun/console games...  which more than likely have and do used emulators.
 
 But then..  they also could release a set for the new console systems... and or
just make the gun universal (using adapters).   The added profits from
console ports would add even greater impact on sales figures.

 It just makes no practical sense from a business point of view... to make
such things for a dying/dead  market, for a few dollars... when they could instead
make millions over the course of a few months of consumer sales.
 

[wbassett]

This is for commercial applications.....  Given the current price of Happ gun sets then I'd guess you won't see much change from about $500 for a pair of guns and the interface and it won't get any cheaper, because it's aimed at Arcade Ops not at domestic users and Happ rip the arcade industry off because they know they can afford to pay for it.

Fozzy I don't think we can say that just yet.  

This is the exact same board layout as the normal light gun interface, which is MSRP of $200, so it should be 'slightly' lower street price.   I expect this to be around the same price, and the guns a touch more than standard light guns.  My guess is between the $350 to $400 mark, which still isn't cheap by any means.  I personally would love to see a consumer priced version that drops the amplifer and extra inputs and is just a gun interface, but my hopes aren't high for that.

I just played Policer Trainer again and it just re-enforced how much we really need an accurate gun.  Mine is already showing some signs of failure.  The trigger is starting to act up and sometimes shots don't fire, and that really screws up a game where you need to be fast and accurate.

I haven't heard back from Les, so I'll try to contact him next week about this interface as well as the other one I was originally inquiring about.  

Who knows at this point, you might be right and this will tag in around $500, but right now I don't think any of us have enough information to really know what the street price will end up being.